Advise needed

[Callum97]

I was working for an employer whilst rebuilding a new business on the side that is now starting to become successful, whilst the world gets back to something normal. Anyway..

However today they have let me go, and I think it’s because my Director has a personality clash with me on many levels. I will add I had taken a senior role within this company my direct contact was the Director no below managers.

However since starting I’ve been never given a contract and I’ve been there 8 or more months.

If I want to fight this, can I personally take it to court for non contract provided?

I’ve never hated anyone but this person really there is a genuine hate for.

They are quite a large business 240 million a year: a known food wholesaler.

 

[WaveJumper]

I am sorry but 240 million a year I have a feeling they know what they are doing, 8 months in the role you don't have a leg to stand on, I assume they are paying you for any holiday owed and notice etc. The forum member to seek out for HR advice would be @Newchodge

Maybe now is the time to concentrate and focus on the business you started on the side, look at this as a push to independence put your energy into this and forget the Director.

 

[Newchodge]

If I want to fight this, can I personally take it to court for non contract provided?

No

 

[simon field]

^^^ What he said.

It’s never a good idea to act on your own personal feelings, and especially so when the feeling is hate/revenge/bitterness etc etc.

Let it go and do your thing. Seriously.

Edit to clarify, what he AND she said!

 

[Bob Morgan]

^^^ What he said.

It’s never a good idea to act on your own personal feelings, and especially so when the feeling is hate/revenge/bitterness etc etc.

Let it go and do your thing. Seriously.

Edit to clarify, what he AND she said!

Put it behind you and move on! Sometimes, there can be an opportunity for a little 'Sport' - However, this will not happen tomorrow, next month, or even next year! But, it's wonderful when it happens!

I once had a similar experience in the Middle East. I was taking a very busy Thursday PM Flight, and the 'Local Passengers' never followed their allocated Seat Numbers! I spotted an empty seat next to someone I instantly recognised - It was him! I sat next to him and introduced myself with "Remember Me?" - And a Beaming Smile! He then had to endure a 'Very Awkward' 40 Minutes!

 

[Mr D]

I was working for an employer whilst rebuilding a new business on the side that is now starting to become successful, whilst the world gets back to something normal. Anyway..

However today they have let me go, and I think it’s because my Director has a personality clash with me on many levels. I will add I had taken a senior role within this company my direct contact was the Director no below managers.

However since starting I’ve been never given a contract and I’ve been there 8 or more months.

If I want to fight this, can I personally take it to court for non contract provided?

I’ve never hated anyone but this person really there is a genuine hate for.

They are quite a large business 240 million a year: a known food wholesaler.

The contract has existed for 8 months, you work for them and they pay you.
You don't have a written contract - then its simply you don't have a written contract. Doesn't affect you losing your job.
In first 2 years of employment an employer can simply say sorry its not working out and escort you off the premises.
Paying you any outstanding holiday pay and whatever notice.

Without you being able to fight it.


Question is - why did you not query lack of written contract any time in past 8 months if it was of concern? Most employers I've had over the years I've had contract before I start or given in first week (via internal mail).

 

[HFE Signs]

Best option is to forget them and move on, focus on yourself and what you do next

 

[Callum97]

No

Surly there must be

The contract has existed for 8 months, you work for them and they pay you.
You don't have a written contract - then its simply you don't have a written contract. Doesn't affect you losing your job.
In first 2 years of employment an employer can simply say sorry its not working out and escort you off the premises.
Paying you any outstanding holiday pay and whatever notice.

Without you being able to fight it.


Question is - why did you not query lack of written contract any time in past 8 months if it was of concern? Most employers I've had over the years I've had contract before I start or given in first week (via internal mail).

how would that work just say if I wanted to compete with them?

I have no contract so surely they wouldn’t have a leg to stand on? Although I wouldn’t be don’t really fancy the industry.

 

[Newchodge]

You can take a tribunal claim for not having been given a statement of terms and conditions. The employer can avoid any sanction by issuing the statement before the date of the tribunal. So effectively, no.

 

[Callum97]

I’m just focusing on my own business now I genuinely think some people aren’t cut out to be employees after being self employed for so long

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I’m just focusing on my own business now I genuinely think some people aren’t cut out to be employees after being self employed for so long

Absolutely I say what happens around here nobody else
This is my jungle

Don't be consumed by any of the other Ba££££it not related to your business I mentioned yesterday about high value UKBF members. You need to be one of them

 

[Mr D]

Surly there must be

how would that work just say if I wanted to compete with them?

I have no contract so surely they wouldn’t have a leg to stand on? Although I wouldn’t be don’t really fancy the industry.

They'd value the competition. If you could raise the necessary finance to become a competitor.
Hundred million should do it. Set up on a small scale and you won't be a competitor.

Beyond that they'd need to convince a judge that you were in breach of the contract.
Limitations on competition are usually time and location specific. Or unenforceable if too long or too broad in terms.

 

[Mr D]

I’m just focusing on my own business now I genuinely think some people aren’t cut out to be employees after being self employed for so long

Some can be unable to switch to employee status. Depends on the employer too.

Some can switch between easily - they aren't out to try running their employer's business.

 

[Callum97]

They'd value the competition. If you could raise the necessary finance to become a competitor.
Hundred million should do it. Set up on a small scale and you won't be a competitor.

Beyond that they'd need to convince a judge that you were in breach of the contract.
Limitations on competition are usually time and location specific. Or unenforceable if too long or too broad in terms.

So it works both ways no contract no case.

 

[MikeJ]

Why do you think there's a non-compete clause, if there's no written contract?

 

[Mark T Jones]

Surly there must be

how would that work just say if I wanted to compete with them?

I have no contract so surely they wouldn’t have a leg to stand on? Although I wouldn’t be don’t really fancy the industry.

A non-compete clause wouldn't stand up if they got rid of you, say way.

You just have to be careful you're not seen to be stealing data or IP

 

[Callum97]

Why do you think there's a non-compete clause, if there's no written contract?

It’s impossible to have one if no contract.

 

[IanSuth]

Why do you think there's a non-compete clause, if there's no written contract?

It’s impossible to have one if no contract.

There is the general principle you can't steal their IP or use data you were provided within that job for the purposes of it (ie you cant ring all the contacts you have in your phone touting for business because you transferred the work customer list to it)

But you can start up and compete on a fair basis

 

[Newchodge]

There is the general principle you can't steal their IP or use data you were provided within that job for the purposes of it (ie you cant ring all the contacts you have in your phone touting for business because you transferred the work customer list to it)

But you can start up and compete on a fair basis

But you can ring up snd tout for business using numbers you can remember.

 

[DEBS Ltd]

I am sorry but 240 million a year I have a feeling they know what they are doing, 8 months in the role you don't have a leg to stand on, I assume they are paying you for any holiday owed and notice etc. The forum member to seek out for HR advice would be @Newchodge

Maybe now is the time to concentrate and focus on the business you started on the side, look at this as a push to independence put your energy into this and forget the Director.

You'd be surprised.

I worked for a company with a turnover of 8.5 billion and they hadn't a clue when it came to HR.

I'm baffled how a company can let you go in the first two years by saying it's simply not working out. Not that I'm questioning it. Under what legislation is that permitted?

The only other thing I'd add is, surely in the absence of a contract, a contract exists? No?

 

[Newchodge]

You'd be surprised.

I worked for a company with a turnover of 8.5 billion and they hadn't a clue when it came to HR.

I'm baffled how a company can let you go in the first two years by saying it's simply not working out. Not that I'm questioning it. Under what legislation is that permitted?

The only other thing I'd add is, surely in the absence of a contract, a contract exists? No?

Any dismissal has to be fair. If a dismissal is unfair an employee can take a claim for unfair dismissal. In order to take a claim for unfair dismissal an employee needs 2 years continuous service. Sacking someone because it is not working out, after 8 months, is not prmitted by any legislation. But legislation precludes doing anything about it.

A contract has existed for 8 months, it just isn't in writing.

 

[Callum97]

Any dismissal has to be fair. If a dismissal is unfair an employee can take a claim for unfair dismissal. In order to take a claim for unfair dismissal an employee needs 2 years continuous service. Sacking someone because it is not working out, after 8 months, is not prmitted by any legislation. But legislation precludes doing anything about it.

A contract has existed for 8 months, it just isn't in writing.

Yes surely not a non compete, would need to be signed for it to even know it existed?

 

[Newchodge]

Yes surely not a non compete, would need to be signed for it to even know it existed?

?

 

[japancool]

If you didn't sign a non-compete, why are you worrying about it?

 

[kulture]

I would move on and stop wasting your time. As for non compete, IF you have stolen a list of their customers and then tried to use it to compete, then you could be liable. Other than that move on. No written contract works both ways.

 

[DEBS Ltd]

Any dismissal has to be fair. If a dismissal is unfair an employee can take a claim for unfair dismissal. In order to take a claim for unfair dismissal an employee needs 2 years continuous service. Sacking someone because it is not working out, after 8 months, is not prmitted by any legislation. But legislation precludes doing anything about it.

A contract has existed for 8 months, it just isn't in writing.

Thought that may be the case.

Thanks.

Not to derail, but the two year thing is such an easy get out clause.

 

[Newchodge]

Thought that may be the case.

Thanks.

Not to derail, but the two year thing is such an easy get out clause.

It was 1 year under Labour - it has wandered around between 2 years and 1 year, and there was a suggestion, possibly from Corbyn, that it would be from day 1, but I cannot see that happening.

 

[simon field]

You'd be surprised.

I worked for a company with a turnover of 8.5 billion and they hadn't a clue when it came to HR.

I'm baffled how a company can let you go in the first two years by saying it's simply not working out.

It’s extremely helpful when it comes to employees who like to get their feet under the carpet but then start playing up within two years.

 

[Mr D]

Thought that may be the case.

Thanks.

Not to derail, but the two year thing is such an easy get out clause.

There has to be a way to get rid of staff that aren't working out. In some work you can tell in first few weeks, in others its 6 months or more before it can be ascertained. Some of my work colleagues its over a year before can see if they are a good fit for the job. Though we tend to move people to other work if not suited to particular role rather than get rid.

Without some system of getting rid of staff then would be more problematic to take on staff you don't know.

 

[Newchodge]

There has to be a way to get rid of staff that aren't working out. In some work you can tell in first few weeks, in others its 6 months or more before it can be ascertained. Some of my work colleagues its over a year before can see if they are a good fit for the job. Though we tend to move people to other work if not suited to particular role rather than get rid.

Without some system of getting rid of staff then would be more problematic to take on staff you don't know.

There is a perfectly good system to get rid of staff - probation, properly conducted, identifying problems and failing probation because not a good fit, is the best. Post probation you still have capability and discilinary procedures you can use.

 

[MikeJ]

It was 1 year under Labour - it has wandered around between 2 years and 1 year, and there was a suggestion, possibly from Corbyn, that it would be from day 1, but I cannot see that happening.

Cameron's government put it back up to 2 years in order to encourage companies to take on staff following the financial crisis.

 

[Mr D]

Cameron's government put it back up to 2 years in order to encourage companies to take on staff following the financial crisis.

Did it work?

 

[Bushman]

Did it work?

Yes, I have 2 borderline employees that I would have let go last year if the time limit was 1 year. As it is I have given them more time to get their act together. It looks like at least one of them is coming good.