Solar power: Anyone have any experience?

[Paul FilmMaker]

UK video production here. Electricity prices are running a tad high at the moment so we're looking for alternatives. We're incredibly lucky in that just before Covid, we invested in batteries and fast chargers (which have all doubled in price) so all our kit (lights, sound, cameras etc...) can be powered this way.

So we were shooting at a blue chip firm the other day and at the end of the shoot, asked nicely if we could charge everything. The client said 'yes' and that saved us a significant number.

Naturally, not all our customers can be so accommodating so we are also looking at solar. We've had really mixed reports so just wondering if anyone has any experience with this. As a note, in 2 years, my partner and I want to buy a house together so we'll probably solar panel it anyway.

So while the salespeople are saying it's great, I just want to reality check and see if anyone else has had any success with it. Does it really pay back? How long does the kit last for? What do I have to watch for? And is wind an option? What kind of prices have you been paying?

 

[IanSuth]

OK 2 stories and I am not an expert

My mum got solar about 15 years ago just as they got a lot cheaper and before they dropped the feedin tariff amounts - her panels are now fully paid off and generate about 90% of what they always did, plus she is on a feedin tariff with an escalator and it pays her i think 56p per unit. Her house (that was a self build) by pure chance points in exactly the right direction with exactly the correct pitch roof

The guy we stayed with in Devon 2 weeks ago has built his own set up on his swimming pool roof (which he also built), as it is non certified he can not have it feed in to the grid and so gets nothing back - however, the panels are 750W and cost him £150 direct from China, he has 20 plus a large battery storage solution that cost £1700 (sounds like a jet engine when the panels are all charging it in full sunlight), for sub £5k he has not used any mains since last November when it was up and running and he charges his MG 5Sw and his Citroen eDispatch from it for free overnight. He already imports stuff from China so had the contacts.

 

[Paul FilmMaker]

OK 2 stories and I am not an expert

My mum got solar about 15 years ago just as they got a lot cheaper and before they dropped the feedin tariff amounts - her panels are now fully paid off and generate about 90% of what they always did, plus she is on a feedin tariff with an escalator and it pays her i think 56p per unit. Her house (that was a self build) by pure chance points in exactly the right direction with exactly the correct pitch roof

The guy we stayed with in Devon 2 weeks ago has built his own set up on his swimming pool roof (which he also built), as it is non certified he can not have it feed in to the grid and so gets nothing back - however, the panels are 750W and cost him £150 direct from China, he has 20 plus a large battery storage solution that cost £1700 (sounds like a jet engine when the panels are all charging it in full sunlight), for sub £5k he has not used any mains since last November when it was up and running and he charges his MG 5Sw and his Citroen eDispatch from it for free overnight. He already imports stuff from China so had the contacts.

Thanks! This looks amazing!

 

[Berbinto]

We are having solar panels fitted to our house in Dec. It's not the best month to do it but I felt with the energy price rise it's essential.
I'll keep you updates with performance data.

 

[MBE2017]

Used to sell it and when correctly advised I personally have never met anyone who regretted doing it.

You need to ensure you get honest decent advice. All companies should use the Gov data for calculations, but like anything it can be open too interpretation. Southerly roofs obviously best, the power will drop off the nearer East and West the roof faces.

A big killer is shade being cast by trees or chimney brests etc, there are ways too reduce this impact, but everything costs. A decent system should last you 20+ years, but expect to change the power converter at least once in that time, most last 7/10 years, and it helps to clean the panels once or twice a year.

Simple advice is, energy is only going to get more expensive.

 

[IanSuth]

Used to sell it and when correctly advised I personally have never met anyone who regretted doing it.

You need to ensure you get honest decent advice. All companies should use the Gov data for calculations, but like anything it can be open too interpretation. Southerly roofs obviously best, the power will drop off the nearer East and West the roof faces.

A big killer is shade being cast by trees or chimney brests etc, there are ways too reduce this impact, but everything costs. A decent system should last you 20+ years, but expect to change the power converter at least once in that time, most last 7/10 years, and it helps to clean the panels once or twice a year.

Simple advice is, energy is only going to get more expensive.

Yeah I have a south facing gable and my west facing sloped roof is shaded by a large Oak with a tree preservation order on it which is the only reason I haven't bothered myself. I only have to look at the moss build up on the roof to know where the light doesnt get with much intensity.

Also hint from my mum - whilst being installed get chicken wire put around the panels, Pidgeon love to nest behind and then they sit on top edge of the panels and their poop reduces the output. Easier done during fitment than retrospectively after they have nested

 

[DazRave]

Annoyingly we've got a south-facing house and the missus won't entertain the idea of how ugly they look. To be honest I do agree they are an absolute eyesore when fitted retrospectively on top of tiles.

I love the idea of Tesla's solar tiles but I imagine the price to make and install them is simply not worth it unless you live in the desert.

 

[IanSuth]

Just had a message from my mum, she just got her feed in statement for the period 6th Apr to 6th July

£699.64 that is 12 panels in Sussex at the perfect angle and compass bearing

 

[Financial-Modeller]

Unless you have a specific use in mind and/or access to a subsidised tariff and/or prefer a roof full of panels to not, I suspect it makes more sense to just buy shares in listed power generators.

Take the dividends, and offset that against your energy bill.

At the end of their useful life, would you prefer a roof full of scrap silicone, or shares that - given rising energy prices mentioned earlier - should be worth more than you paid for them?

 

[DontAsk]

At the end of their useful life, would you prefer a roof full of scrap silicone,

Recycle into breast implants?

 

[Newchodge]

Unless you have a specific use in mind and/or access to a subsidised tariff and/or prefer a roof full of panels to not, I suspect it makes more sense to just buy shares in listed power generators.

Take the dividends, and offset that against your energy bill.

At the end of their useful life, would you prefer a roof full of scrap silicone, or shares that - given rising energy prices mentioned earlier - should be worth more than you paid for them?

Assuming of course thee is no nationalisation.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

With higher inflation the money n the bank is in reality loosing its value, from what I understand a solar system should break even in 10 years and that was based upon last years electricity prices

We have been quoted a system with battery which will mean virtually no grid electricity would be used over the course of a year

Big question is will Russia stop fighting and become a good supplier in say 2-3 years and bring down electricity prices, we were spending £60 pm now at £200 fixed for year. personally I think energy prices may well drop but never as low as before now they have a taste for money

 

[IanSuth]

With higher inflation the money n the bank is in reality loosing its value, from what I understand a solar system should break even in 10 years and that was based upon last years electricity prices

We have been quoted a system with battery which will mean virtually no grid electricity would be used over the course of a year

Big question is will Russia stop fighting and become a good supplier in say 2-3 years and bring down electricity prices, we were spending £60 pm now at £200 fixed for year. personally I think energy prices may well drop but never as low as before now they have a taste for money

As i said the guy we stayed with this summer on Devon/Cornwall border, his 20 cheap chinese panels feeding into a cheap Chinese battery mean he hasn't used any grid electric since Nov21 and that includes charging his MG5ev car and an eTraffic van, and he is not exactly in the sunniest sport (western edge of dartmoor is a tad damp).

Only thing is he had the contacts and the skills to do himself on his own building without caring about certification or a feed in tariff (his family have owned the land for centuries and aren't moving soon either)

 

[brianabbott]

With higher inflation the money n the bank is in reality loosing its value, from what I understand a solar system should break even in 10 years and that was based upon last years electricity prices

We have been quoted a system with battery which will mean virtually no grid electricity would be used over the course of a year

Big question is will Russia stop fighting and become a good supplier in say 2-3 years and bring down electricity prices, we were spending £60 pm now at £200 fixed for year. personally I think energy prices may well drop but never as low as before now they have a taste for money

Is this for your home, Chris? If so, have you got at least an acre of land? If you have, I can get you solar panels for free and you would receive £2,500 per acre per annum. Subject to planning.

Regards,

Brian

 

[Scubadog]

12kW installed solar panels, and 10kWhr battery with a 5kW inverter is currently repaying in 2.8 years.
I would love to hear of ANY other ivestments that repay that quickly.

In fact, just switching to an intelligent tarrif (such as octopus (7.5p/kwhr between 12am and 4am) which requires an intelligent smart meter) and using battery storage alone repays in 3.5 years.

 

[Scubadog]

Unless you have a specific use in mind and/or access to a subsidised tariff and/or prefer a roof full of panels to not, I suspect it makes more sense to just buy shares in listed power generators.

Take the dividends, and offset that against your energy bill.

At the end of their useful life, would you prefer a roof full of scrap silicone, or shares that - given rising energy prices mentioned earlier - should be worth more than you paid for them?

I wouldnt wish to take financial advice from you........

How much would you need invested to offset an average energy bill currently?

 

[Alxender]

UK video production here. Electricity prices are running a tad high at the moment so we're looking for alternatives. We're incredibly lucky in that just before Covid, we invested in batteries and fast chargers (which have all doubled in price) so all our kit (lights, sound, cameras etc...) can be powered this way.

So we were shooting at a blue chip firm the other day and at the end of the shoot, asked nicely if we could charge everything. The client said 'yes' and that saved us a significant number.

Naturally, not all our customers can be so accommodating so we are also looking at solar. We've had really mixed reports so just wondering if anyone has any experience with this. As a note, in 2 years, my partner and I want to buy a house together so we'll probably solar panel it anyway.

So while the salespeople are saying it's great, I just want to reality check and see if anyone else has had any success with it. Does it really pay back? How long does the kit last for? What do I have to watch for? And is wind an option? What kind of prices have you been paying?

Plates are almost lifetime. But batteries are in trouble after a while. Solar paybacks in a nice way. But try to install good batteries.

 

[Berbinto]

The financial model we have been given estimates payback in 8 years, but this is calculated at inflation running at 5% and no change in energy prices.
Realistically, I think it will be more like 5/6 years payback.
If energy goes up by 41% next year as suggested it might be less than 5 years.
Seems a no brainer to me (if you have the mo ey available)

 

[Avilon]

A solar panel field has been established in my region. Costs 20 million, average daily earning 100k. Not a good cost/earning ratio. There are also some fields with pretty good ratios, I dont know what makes the difference.

EDIT: For a moment I thought of it as a monthly earning, its daily and soo good.

 

[Bob Morgan]

A solar panel field has been established in my region. Costs 20 million, average daily earning 100k. Not a good cost/earning ratio. There are also some fields with pretty good ratios, I dont know what makes the difference.

EDIT: For a moment I thought of it as a monthly earning, its daily and soo good.

Now sit back and calculate the cost of Panel Replacement - They start to degrade as soon as they come out of the box! You will be down to 50% Efficiency in about 5 Years (Less if Cheap Panels). Cleaning is also another consideration, which MUST be done regularly. In addition, Control Equipment and Cabling will require a further programme of maintenance/replacement,

Although the Energy Source (The Sun) is FREE The costs of capturing it effectively can be very high - Especially on Domestic Off-Grid DC Systems, with Inverters and Battery Storage. Expect at least a 30% drop in System Efficiency from Solar Panel to Socket Outlet on such systems - That is just the way 'Science' works!

The 'Science' is very simple! - And, try as we might, we cannot change the Laws of Physics! Calculations are merely 'Arithmetic' and not 'Mathematics!' However, many choose ignore the blindingly obvious!

 

[Avilon]

This is not my area of expertise, I always like to hang out under bigger fishes than me to feel safe. Recently a pretty big fish offered 40 Million to buy this field, the owner asked for 50 million, big fish got away. If big fish thinks this job is worth 40 million, it is !!!

 

[Chris Ashdown]

50% efficiency after 5 years, are you sure of your facts

 

[dan19900]

12kW installed solar panels, and 10kWhr battery with a 5kW inverter is currently repaying in 2.8 years.
I would love to hear of ANY other ivestments that repay that quickly.

In fact, just switching to an intelligent tarrif (such as octopus (7.5p/kwhr between 12am and 4am) which requires an intelligent smart meter) and using battery storage alone repays in 3.5 years.

So you can sell about 7kWhs per day for about 50 pence, how does that repay in 3.5 years?

 

[Bob Morgan]

50% efficiency after 5 years, are you sure of your facts

Read a little further than Manufacturer’s Claims! An increasing amount of research has been done in recent years. In many instances, we are comparing Apples and Bananas – Just like Motor Vehicle Fuel MPG Figures, there is a huge difference between the REAL WORLD and a Laboratory Bench Test! We also have to examine PRECISELY WHAT is being measured by Manufacturers! – Is it the performance of the Outer Skin; The PV Cell; or the Entire Panel Assembly?

Their ‘Claimed Degradation’ CANNOT take account of Microclimate, Array Design, and other 'Local' Environmental Factors – And finally, we have to apply the Volkswagen Phenomenon!

A True Degradation Rate of 50% in 5 Years is true of ‘Cheap Panels’ (Dependent upon Circumstances) – All assuming that the Panel actually stays together for 5 Years!

 

[DontAsk]

You need to compare the 5 yr performance figure to the actual performance when new, which will not be to the panel spec, which is measured under very particular circumstances of insolation, temp., etc.

 

[Scubadog]

So you can sell about 7kWhs per day for about 50 pence, how does that repay in 3.5 years?

Who on earth said anything g about selling...and what sort of rap system do you have that generates 7kwhrs a day?

 

[Scubadog]

Now sit back and calculate the cost of Panel Replacement - They start to degrade as soon as they come out of the box! You will be down to 50% Efficiency in about 5 Years (Less if Cheap Panels). Cleaning is also another consideration, which MUST be done regularly. In addition, Control Equipment and Cabling will require a further programme of maintenance/replacement,

Although the Energy Source (The Sun) is FREE The costs of capturing it effectively can be very high - Especially on Domestic Off-Grid DC Systems, with Inverters and Battery Storage. Expect at least a 30% drop in System Efficiency from Solar Panel to Socket Outlet on such systems - That is just the way 'Science' works!

The 'Science' is very simple! - And, try as we might, we cannot change the Laws of Physics! Calculations are merely 'Arithmetic' and not 'Mathematics!' However, many choose ignore the blindingly obvious!

Megalol!

1) complete nonsense that panels debate anywhere near that quick.

2) even more fu my is your claim cables need replacing anytime soon. Consider up to 60 years for cable not unreasonable.

 

[Scubadog]

Read a little further than Manufacturer’s Claims! An increasing amount of research has been done in recent years. In many instances, we are comparing Apples and Bananas – Just like Motor Vehicle Fuel MPG Figures, there is a huge difference between the REAL WORLD and a Laboratory Bench Test! We also have to examine PRECISELY WHAT is being measured by Manufacturers! – Is it the performance of the Outer Skin; The PV Cell; or the Entire Panel Assembly?

Their ‘Claimed Degradation’ CANNOT take account of Microclimate, Array Design, and other 'Local' Environmental Factors – And finally, we have to apply the Volkswagen Phenomenon!

A True Degradation Rate of 50% in 5 Years is true of ‘Cheap Panels’ (Dependent upon Circumstances) – All assuming that the Panel actually stays together for 5 Years!

Actually the VOC is what is measured and reported...anything else you mentioned is just nonsense spouted by people claiming things like wi d turbines couldn't pull the skin of rice pudding.

 

[Bob Morgan]

Megalol!

1) complete nonsense that panels debate anywhere near that quick.

2) even more fu my is your claim cables need replacing anytime soon. Consider up to 60 years for cable not unreasonable.

WOW! Your panels are able to 'Debate' too? I am simply astounded that your cables last 35 Years longer than the Standard Domestic 220V Installation they are connected to! - Would that also apply to the DC Side too?

READ my last sentence! "All assuming that the Panel actually stays together for 5 Years!" Well, never mind, the Panels might be in pieces after 5 Years, but the WIRES will last for another 55! - I will sleep soundly, knowing that!

 

[BubbaWY]

Standard domestic cables last longer than 25 years!

 

[Bob Morgan]

Standard domestic cables last longer than 25 years!

26 if you're very lucky!

 

[BubbaWY]

Well, having worked in the electrical industry since 1994, this is news to me.

 

[Bob Morgan]

Well, having worked in the electrical industry since 1994, this is news to me.

Go back to whoever trained you and ask for your money back! - Just Google "HOW FREQUENT TO REWIRE HOUSE"

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Bob I think you are confusing new regs with old, whilst Bathrooms and Kitchens fitted with new equipment now often need to be rewired to meet current regs, the rest of the house does not need to be rewired

 

[Bob Morgan]

Bob I think you are confusing new regs with old, whilst Bathrooms and Kitchens fitted with new equipment now often need to be rewired to meet current regs, the rest of the house does not need to be rewired

Many thanks for your concern, Chris. However, I am far from confused!

 

[Scubadog]

WOW! Your panels are able to 'Debate' too? I am simply astounded that your cables last 35 Years longer than the Standard Domestic 220V Installation they are connected to! - Would that also apply to the DC Side too?

READ my last sentence! "All assuming that the Panel actually stays together for 5 Years!" Well, never mind, the Panels might be in pieces after 5 Years, but the WIRES will last for another 55! - I will sleep soundly, knowing that!

I have no idea where you think standard domestic wiring lasts 25 years.....Ive only been an electrician for 22 years, and a electrical engineer for 12 and specialise in industrial. Of course, if you wire solar panels in standard domestic twin and earth (which is 230V by the way) then yea...probably wont last 10 years.

But the plants that were built 60 years ago....i service plenty that still use original wiring (24V, 110V, 230V, 400V and 11kV). of course these are designed and installed by professionals.....not bodgit and scarper or even the standard domestic sparky.

(For info, there are plenty of wiring systems that dont last 25 years in domestics, but that's down to the type of wiring system that cant be used anymore. Again these would have no place on a solar PV system)

 

[Scubadog]

Go back to whoever trained you and ask for your money back! - Just Google "HOW FREQUENT TO REWIRE HOUSE"

Lol......Yea, cus google knows the type of wiring system, the installation method and the insulation resistance.right?

Or you could listen to an electrical inspector who does this day in day out.....Of course you would choose google because it fits your bias and lack of knowledge.

 

[Scubadog]

Many thanks for your concern, Chris. However, I am far from confused!

Not confused....just wildly incorrect.

Why on earth would you rewire a house at 25 years?
My house is 40 years old.,...installation is perfectly safe and serviceable.

I bet you got mugged off and had your house rewired prematurely....

 

[BubbaWY]

Go back to whoever trained you and ask for your money back! - Just Google "HOW FREQUENT TO REWIRE HOUSE"

I Googled this for you...

'a house built in 1965 will probably need rewiring as the lighting circuit will probably not be earthed(no requirement for earthing then) and if TT ( over head supply cables) it would be using the gas and water pipes for a main earth instead of an earth rod.'

Notice the 'probably'? It only 'probably' needs wriring after 57 years because it doesnt meet the current regulations. Not because of any deterioration of the cabling.

Not sure what your expertise is Bob, but its certainly nothing to do with electrical cabling or using Google.

 

[Scubadog]

I Googled this for you...

'a house built in 1965 will probably need rewiring as the lighting circuit will probably not be earthed(no requirement for earthing then) and if TT ( over head supply cables) it would be using the gas and water pipes for a main earth instead of an earth rod.'

Notice the 'probably'? It only 'probably' needs wriring after 57 years because it doesnt meet the current regulations. Not because of any deterioration of the cabling.

Not sure what your expertise is Bob, but its certainly nothing to do with electrical cabling or using Google.

I Googled this for you...

'a house built in 1965 will probably need rewiring as the lighting circuit will probably not be earthed(no requirement for earthing then) and if TT ( over head supply cables) it would be using the gas and water pipes for a main earth instead of an earth rod.'

Notice the 'probably'? It only 'probably' needs wriring after 57 years because it doesnt meet the current regulations. Not because of any deterioration of the cabling.

Not sure what your expertise is Bob, but its certainly nothing to do with electrical cabling or using Google.

Even then it wouldn't need rewiring.
Bang an earth rod in and stick a CPC in the lights....job done. Literally a days works at worst.

Funnyily enough, Bobs quote seems to come from checkatrade....the site where they try and sell tradesman services. They dont work for the customer...they work for the traders. if this is your fountain of knowledgeits no wonder why you made yourself look a bit daft! Whatever happened to critical analysis....


Just FYI...the solar panels i have recently installed come with a 20 year guarantee.. 20 years is a much bigger number than Bobs 5 years. Do you see how that works bob? Its a bit like your house wiring, buy cheap,Chinese, or get your mate from the pub to do it, or listen to "i searched on google" and you end up with the misinformation you currently face.