Rising energy costs

[alan1302]

You take the bus and I'll take my Tesla with driver and assistant.

No hypocrisy there - they are using a greener alternative to a petrol/diesel car and want as many people to use buses...you might not like it but they are not doing anything wrong. That also assumes that they never use the bus themselves.

 

[alan1302]

Annoying Donkey said energy companies are making huge profits
Newchodge agreed with them and said that they are charging inflated prices when the costs haven't changed.

I said if this is due, why does no one want to buy a company with a significant market share and well known name and why are they losing money? I also highlight the fact that wholesale energy prices have increased massively.

Think people get all the energy companies mixed up - lareg oil and gas companies like Shell and BP are making good profits as they are being paid more for what they drill for. Energy companies that provide the residential gas and electric, like EON and Britsih Gas are not able to charge what they need to make money as the cost of what they provide has increase but they can't pass on the ful costs.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Think people get all the energy companies mixed up - lareg oil and gas companies like Shell and BP are making good profits as they are being paid more for what they drill for. Energy companies that provide the residential gas and electric, like EON and Britsih Gas are not able to charge what they need to make money as the cost of what they provide has increase but they can't pass on the ful costs.

You'd think that someone who worked in the energy industry would get this...

 

[simon field]

No hypocrisy there - they are using a greener alternative to a petrol/diesel car and want as many people to use buses...you might not like it but they are not doing anything wrong. That also assumes that they never use the bus themselves.

Buses stink though!

Plus, Teslas are green? What about the batteries? What about the mining?

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I am frightfully astounded by the usual suspects here that are blaming the government for a worldwide problem
You people know better than that and you are just taking a pot shot at an already incompetent government !
A global issue !

 

[simon field]

I am frightfully astounded by the usual suspects here that are blaming the government for a worldwide problem
You people know better than that and you are just taking a pot shot at an already incompetent government !
A global issue !

Totally agree. People will just have to either work harder or put a jumper on. But no, they whinge!

 

[japancool]

Think people get all the energy companies mixed up - lareg oil and gas companies like Shell and BP are making good profits as they are being paid more for what they drill for. Energy companies that provide the residential gas and electric, like EON and Britsih Gas are not able to charge what they need to make money as the cost of what they provide has increase but they can't pass on the ful costs.

Centrica have also made a stonking profit.

 

[Not a subway]

No hypocrisy there - they are using a greener alternative to a petrol/diesel car and want as many people to use buses...you might not like it but they are not doing anything wrong. That also assumes that they never use the bus themselves.

Politicians take the bus? I want to live in your world.

 

[MBE2017]

No hypocrisy there - they are using a greener alternative to a petrol/diesel car and want as many people to use buses...you might not like it but they are not doing anything wrong. That also assumes that they never use the bus themselves.

So instead of a Tesla, which you seem to ignore the cost of making the car, the economically green cost, why not issue this Gov minister a bus pass?

Now that would show commitment to green policies, reduce overheads to allow for more green measures, and show we are all in it together.

If you don’t see the hypocrisy in telling people to use the bus, but have a chauffeured Tesla for your own use, then you are as deluded as all the A listers who turn up at the Green conferences after having flown to them in their personal jets.

 

[simon field]

So instead of a Tesla, which you seem to ignore the cost of making the car, the economically green cost, why not issue this Gov minister a bus pass?

Now that would show commitment to green policies, reduce overheads to allow for more green measures, and show we are all in it together.

If you don’t see the hypocrisy in telling people to use the bus, but have a chauffeured Tesla for your own use, then you are as deluded as all the A listers who turn up at the Green conferences after having flown to them in their personal jets.

Maybe Alan has been gluing himself to roads?

 

[NickGrogan]

Centrica have also made a stonking profit.

Centrica is not British Gas

"Operating profits at British Gas fell 43% to £98million during the first half of 2022 as it needed to buy more energy in the wholesale market than expected to cover customer demand.

It said it made £6 per customer profit after tax during the period"

British Gas owner's profits increase five-fold while energy bills soar

Meanwhile ordinary households are worrying about their fuel bills this winter.

metro.co.uk

I'd assume most people here make more than £6 per customer?

When the price of petrol is high, BP make loads of money, but the guy running the petrol station doesn't.

 

[alan1302]

Buses stink though!

Plus, Teslas are green? What about the batteries? What about the mining?

Didn't say they were green, said they were greener...no form of transport is going to be perfectly green...an electric vehicle is much better than a standard car though even when when taking into account mining and batteries...think you will find there is a lot of pollution created drilling for oil and the processing into petrol and diesel.

 

[alan1302]

So instead of a Tesla, which you seem to ignore the cost of making the car, the economically green cost, why not issue this Gov minister a bus pass?

Now that would show commitment to green policies, reduce overheads to allow for more green measures, and show we are all in it together.

If you don’t see the hypocrisy in telling people to use the bus, but have a chauffeured Tesla for your own use, then you are as deluded as all the A listers who turn up at the Green conferences after having flown to them in their personal jets.

Being greener and and being more responsible for looking after the environment does not mean you suddenly have to start taking the bus. It's about doing what you do now but in a better way, one which uses less resources, more renewables etc rather than just a black/white way of looking at things.

You can be greener but still do things - it's about balance.

 

[SillyBill]

Our current rate is 12.945p per kwh, just quoted at 49.634p per kwh which is a 283% increase for us. We currently spend £38k a year on electricity and according to this projection we'd be spending £143k per year now on a 2 year fix. So over £100k increase. Not exactly pocket change. Only two suppliers who will quote us (Drax and SmartestEnergy) according to the broker we engaged. I am guessing this is the market Nick/other experts here? Obviously this was a bit of a shocker, just receipted today. I was budgeting £110-120k at a worst case, seems fast approaching £150k. Looks like my business is going to be paying more than I pay at home even with projected domestic users going as high as 46.7 p/kWh assuming 65% increase in the cap in October? This'll be very, very painful for us, we can afford this but I have no idea how a lot of businesses are going to be dealing with these sorts of increases and quite apprehensive what this'll do for business spending.. I'd like to hear more from the government about this impending crisis, seem to be sat pretending this isn't happening at the moment, seems highly likely to me this could overtake every single political/economic issue in the new year, for both home users and business. It is rather delusional not to expect societal implications at the levels coming, I still think with it being summer we've not had anything but the murmurs of discontent yet. I'd expect a lot of instability at the turn of the year.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

I said if this is due, why does no one want to buy a company with a significant market share and well known name and why are they losing money? I also highlight the fact that wholesale energy prices have increased massively.

I believe BULB buys from the wholesale market, i.e., is not a producer?

 

[Not a subway]

Our current rate is 12.945p per kwh, just quoted at 49.634p per kwh which is a 283% increase for us. We currently spend £38k a year on electricity and according to this projection we'd be spending £143k per year now on a 2 year fix. So over £100k increase. Not exactly pocket change. Only two suppliers who will quote us (Drax and SmartestEnergy) according to the broker we engaged. I am guessing this is the market Nick/other experts here? Obviously this was a bit of a shocker, just receipted today. I was budgeting £110-120k at a worst case, seems fast approaching £150k. Looks like my business is going to be paying more than I pay at home even with projected domestic users going as high as 46.7 p/kWh assuming 65% increase in the cap in October? This'll be very, very painful for us, we can afford this but I have no idea how a lot of businesses are going to be dealing with these sorts of increases and quite apprehensive what this'll do for business spending.. I'd like to hear more from the government about this impending crisis, seem to be sat pretending this isn't happening at the moment, seems highly likely to me this could overtake every single political/economic issue in the new year, for both home users and business. It is rather delusional not to expect societal implications at the levels coming, I still think with it being summer we've not had anything but the murmurs of discontent yet. I'd expect a lot of instability at the turn of the year.

I'm wondering the same thing. A lot of retail businesses won't survive the price increases.
A lot of friends have multiple units making approx £20-25K profit per year.
Their current bills are around £800 per month. New contract rates will push this upto almost £4K per month, negating any profits.

 

[SillyBill]

I'm wondering the same thing. A lot of retail businesses won't survive the price increases.
A lot of friends have multiple units making approx £20-25K profit per year.
Their current bills are around £800 per month. New contract rates will push this upto almost £4K per month, negating any profits.

Yes, its all relative, any significant cost going up 300-400% is beyond what most contingencies allow for in a lot of SMEs. On this end, we will simply slash a few tens of £k spend in other areas of the business to cut the cloth accordingly, we can't slash the full amount but imagine it'll be £50-75k less of our spend going into other non-energy businesses as we deploy more cash into energy. Demand is invariably going to take a huge hit with these levels of cash being pulled which further worsens the income of businesses trying to pay the increased costs!

 

[IanSuth]

I believe BULB buys from the wholesale market, i.e., is not a producer?

This totally

The people making big profits are producers taking the oil/gas out of the ground. Even when they share a name we do not buy domestic energy from those people (they are all separate companies from the exploration/production side)

It is like you buy your car from a dealer like Marshall Volkswagen, it is imported by Volkswagen UK who get it from Volkswagen group of Wolfsburg.

Volkswagen group making a profit is connected to but not a direct result of Marshall Volkswagen's pricing policy (as it could be because their commercial vehicle division had a bumper year because every German public authority decided to pay up front for ID Buzz vans)

Bulb (who i was with until last October) were/are a reseller of electricity who used bribes to get the customers to act as salesmen (i did well out of it) to their friends and family. Whilst things were normal they did well, but they had not hedged enough to allow them to continue their business model in these different times.

 

[SillyBill]

I consider the electricity suppliers (most of them) as simply financial businesses, they trade electricity, buy it and sell it, that is the crux of their business. And their hedges weren't designed for a war, it really doesn't go much beyond that.

 

[NickGrogan]

Our current rate is 12.945p per kwh, just quoted at 49.634p per kwh which is a 283% increase for us. We currently spend £38k a year on electricity and according to this projection we'd be spending £143k per year now on a 2 year fix. So over £100k increase. Not exactly pocket change. Only two suppliers who will quote us (Drax and SmartestEnergy) according to the broker we engaged. I am guessing this is the market Nick/other experts here? Obviously this was a bit of a shocker, just receipted today. I was budgeting £110-120k at a worst case, seems fast approaching £150k. Looks like my business is going to be paying more than I pay at home even with projected domestic users going as high as 46.7 p/kWh assuming 65% increase in the cap in October? This'll be very, very painful for us, we can afford this but I have no idea how a lot of businesses are going to be dealing with these sorts of increases and quite apprehensive what this'll do for business spending.. I'd like to hear more from the government about this impending crisis, seem to be sat pretending this isn't happening at the moment, seems highly likely to me this could overtake every single political/economic issue in the new year, for both home users and business. It is rather delusional not to expect societal implications at the levels coming, I still think with it being summer we've not had anything but the murmurs of discontent yet. I'd expect a lot of instability at the turn of the year.

You should have more options than that, happy to discuss, I've sent you a DM

 

[Chris Ashdown]

For years business have been wasting electricity and never considered changing their requirements, just go into any main shop and it has more lights on than needed just because they always have done it that way

How many companies have done a electrical review and spent money changing to more efficient lighting or heating, leaving shop lights on 24/7 to cover when mr smith stops off at 02@30 for a look in the shop

How many units have solar power

Many are happy to spend a fortune on a new car for the company but never consider saving money with those machines sitting idle or on standby

Many lazy managers and owners now moaning about others doing nought but never look at themselves

 

[Casually made]

I'd like to hear more from the government about this impending crisis, seem to be sat pretending this isn't happening at the moment, seems highly likely to me this could overtake every single political/economic issue in the new year, for both home users and business. It is rather delusional not to expect societal implications at the levels coming, I still think with it being summer we've not had anything but the murmurs of discontent yet. I'd expect a lot of instability at the turn of the year.

Wouldn't we all

There is now a multitude of issues brewing within not just the UK economy but the global one

The general attitude from most seems to be "oh well it's happened before nothing to worry about "

I cant remember a period before where most consumer consumables have increased exponentially in such a short space of time

I don't think many are really appreciating just how expensive things are becoming whilst income for most is declining

As you say nobody really wants to think about it in the summer and even in the build up to Christmas people will grin and bear it

January 2023 however when the bills start landing on doormats i expect the mood in the country to sour rapidly

 

[IanSuth]

Wouldn't we all

There is now a multitude of issues brewing within not just the UK economy but the global one

The general attitude from most seems to be "oh well it's happened before nothing to worry about "

I cant remember a period before where most consumer consumables have increased exponentially in such a short space of time

I don't think many are really appreciating just how expensive things are becoming whilst income for most is declining

As you say nobody really wants to think about it in the summer and even in the build up to Christmas people will grin and bear it

January 2023 however when the bills start landing on doormats i expect the mood in the country to sour rapidly

Way before my time but my mum says one of the reasons catalogue shopping became big in the mid 70's was just before the new catalogue came out the old (which was 3 mths old) was cheaper than the shops due to inflation. She would always buy toys that way for our xmas presents almost at the last minute in December and if she missed it we got an IOU for the present got in Jan sales.
She used to spend her wages on staples like rice/beans etc ASAP as even waiting a day or 2 could see a price rise (at the time she was unusual in having as part time job delivering for the local shop, having been research chemist until I was on the way, my birth dad was a GPO/BT engineer always late with maintenance)

 

[UKSBD]

Educating people will help

My wife used to be terrible, she would just put one or 2 items in the washing machine, do a full wash, then put them in the dryer.

Half load the dishwasher and do on full extra hot cycle, always empty the kettle and then overfill it, never switch lights off, always have TV on standby

She still doesn't put a full load in and still uses the dryer too much, but most other things she is a lot better at and it's noticeably different how much our energy consumption has dropped.

If I can get her to be a little more sensible our costs will be the same despite the increases

(Note: I do washing, washing up, make tea, etc. too, before anyone comments)

We are fortunate though in that we've previously not bothered, it's the people who have always been really careful who will be hardest hit

We also have Oil and apart from a massive blip for one week in March the prices aren't up that much

 

[SillyBill]

For years business have been wasting electricity and never considered changing their requirements, just go into any main shop and it has more lights on than needed just because they always have done it that way

How many companies have done a electrical review and spent money changing to more efficient lighting or heating, leaving shop lights on 24/7 to cover when mr smith stops off at 02@30 for a look in the shop

How many units have solar power

Many are happy to spend a fortune on a new car for the company but never consider saving money with those machines sitting idle or on standby

Many lazy managers and owners now moaning about others doing nought but never look at themselves

Would agree with this. I often go for a walk at night, part of it takes me through a (light) industrial estate, it is like Blackpool illuminations down the main road, lights on all night in a lot of places. I can't claim to be ontop of everything in our business but would never allow that flagrant abuse of energy!

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Would agree with this. I often go for a walk at night, part of it takes me through a (light) industrial estate, it is like Blackpool illuminations down the main road, lights on all night in a lot of places. I can't claim to be ontop of everything in our business but would never allow that flagrant abuse of energy!

Wouldn't this have a lot to do with security?

 

[SillyBill]

Wouldn't this have a lot to do with security?

Don't really see why. These are clearly vacant buildings with the lights on. No cars in the car parks. My business is on the same estate and never felt the need to leave the lights on 24 hours a day to deter burglars. We have invested in good fencing, a sensor on the main front gate linked to the alarm. A twin beam sensor (someone walks toward the building they will trigger it without realising) just beyond that, also linked to the main alarm. CCTV cameras which I can watch real time on my phone. And signage all over it that the premises has 24 hour security (it doesn't). None of this is expensive, you wouldn't get past the gate at my place without me being aware in 30 seconds you are there.

 

[thetiger2015]

I am frightfully astounded by the usual suspects here that are blaming the government for a worldwide problem
You people know better than that and you are just taking a pot shot at an already incompetent government !
A global issue !

It is...but...

What resets a global economy within a few years?

War. Big war. You can hide lots of money during a big war. The rich can hide some in vaults or caves. The poor can have their pockets emptied for the 'war effort'. We are actually overdue a big global conflict to reset the balance and ensure the financial security of the worlds wealthiest for another 50 odd years. The poor? Oh, they'll be decimated, but it's all for a good cause...protecting wealth for the elite.

 

[MBE2017]

Bank of England now expecting inflation to hit 13%, after they increase the interest rates half a percent.

I don’t think they can really afford too many more interest rates, so I am expecting tax rises to start increasing shortly.

 

[IanSuth]

Bank of England now expecting inflation to hit 13%, after they increase the interest rates half a percent.

I don’t think they can really afford too many more interest rates, so I am expecting tax rises to start increasing shortly.

They need inflation much higher than interest to inflate away the debts

 

[Picture Bute]

I'm almost half way through a 2 year electricity contract at 21.5p (up from 14.7p previously). Looks like it'll be a painful renewal, unless I decide to sell up or some such thing before that happens.

 

[japancool]

Here we go:

Aberdeen Chinese takeaway hit with £10k gas bill

The Royal Crown has been hit with a gas bill charging 10 times more than the amount they usually owe.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[simon field]

£4200 as from January! Methinks people will simply have to use less of the stuff.

 

[IanSuth]

£4200 as from January! Methinks people will simply have to use less of the stuff.

Better hope we don't get a blocking high then like we have now then.

What is hot dry weather driven by easterly warm air off the continent in summer is also known as perishing cold clear skies with biting easterly winds when it is in the middle of Jan/Feb

 

[MBE2017]

Electric cars should only be charged by solar or wind power, should be made law.

 

[Red Wood]

We renewed with EDF at 0.310 p/kwh approx 4 weeks ago in main unit, was fuming at that price but now I feel we lucked out. My fault totally, but our other smaller unit was with bulb, just got email stating increase to 0.64 p/kwh, tried to get something fixed today, can't beat it as this unit doesn't use much in comparison.

Do I fix us in at close to 0.62 with best quote today from EDF or hope for a miracle that bulb doesn't increase again.

One thing is for sure. It's freighting how out of hand it's getting now.

 

[ArtieFufkin]

What is the current opinion on term length when looking for a new energy contract? 1/2/3 years?

 

[Red Wood]

What is the current opinion on term length when looking for a new energy contract? 1/2/3 years?

I'd say go with something that you can exit without high exit fees. I'd be very surprised if the government didn't offer some form of support for businesses.

Other than that, it's a guessing game. One thing I'm certain of; inflation is here to stay for a good while, and I think we are only at the end of beginning.

 

[japancool]

The industry solution seems fairly simple. Slap a big windfall tax on the energy production companies, and use it to subsidise the distribution companies.

 

[SillyBill]

What is the current opinion on term length when looking for a new energy contract? 1/2/3 years?

Not decided as yet but I'm weighing towards fixing for the shortest term we can at these prices. Risk vs reward for fixing long term is no longer there really when prices are already so sky high. I think I'd rather pay a premium continually for 1 year fixes and keep my fingers crossed at least some of the excesses come off in 1-2 years time which would justify the extra paid in the short term. Of course it could worsen, much is politics and war and weather and other things we can't control so we pick our poison basically. I reckon I'd be sick to my stomach if I fixed for 3 years and in year 2-3 prices are half what they are now (that'd still be a big premium on 6 months ago incidentally). Whereas if I call it wrong and each year I end up paying more I can more easily live with that outcome i.e. took a chance and it didn't pay off (what business is about sometimes).

No different to stock market decisions basically, and if I knew what prices of anything would be, including electricity, in 2-3 years time from now I would be exorbitantly rich.