EU IOSS Signup

[LHow]

Personally, I'd prefer Taxamo on the PAYG basis, but their API is not available for my online store system. I thought the Desucla / myvat.com solution might be of help to other posters on here.
No, I have not heard of any way of joining IOSS directly without an intermediary.

 

[schmexit]

Just got back to reading this thread - the issue I’m finding is the IOSS seems absolutely pointless - and customers are still charged regardless - there doesn’t seem to be anything that guarantees the customer gets the item without any additional charges. Anyone experienced this?

Also, everything we ship to Spain, IOSS or not, is stopped and customer told (usually weeks later) there’s an item to collect and they need to bring ID and sometimes have to pay charges. I think about 20 items have had this this year alone to Spain for us.

Honestly it’s getting easier to just forget EU trade now.

Sorry to hear about your issues. But forgetting about the biggest market in the world may not be that easy...

 

[schmexit]

Personally, I'd prefer Taxamo on the PAYG basis, but their API is not available for my online store system. I thought the Desucla / myvat.com solution might be of help to other posters on here.
No, I have not heard of any way of joining IOSS directly without an intermediary.

Ah, I see. Why don't you contact Taxamo and ask about your required integration, they've been very friendly when I reached out to them with questions?

 

[LHow]

Ah, I see. Why don't you contact Taxamo and ask about your required integration, they've been very friendly when I reached out to them with questions?

Have you got Taxamo integrated yourself?

 

[schmexit]

Have you got Taxamo integrated yourself?

Not yet, I need to find a developer to install the extension, but I'm leaning towards Taxamo.

 

[romeo b]

Sorry to hear about your issues. But forgetting about the biggest market in the world may not be that easy...

I know. It’s very frustrating. Not a clue what to do. Spain is terrible at the moment - al let everything is getting stopped - even IOSS eBay stuff.

I’ve blocked Italy for now too, until they sort their horrendous postage issues out, which have existed since pre-Christmas.

Hope a good IOSS situation presents itself soon without relying on another party. It’s ridiculous we’re still in this position.

 

[Graham Wharton]

Royal Mail are still paying out compensation on Italy parcels over their 25 day limit, even if the tracking data shows they are still in customs. Get your claims in.

 

[Graham Wharton]

I do like the look of that MyVAT service for low volume users. There is no complicated store integration. Just collect the VAT as you would using your store's VAT rules for the EU. Login once per month to MyVAT and give them the totals of EU sales for the previous month, pay the VAT + fee and you're done. You get your own IOSS number.

 

[schmexit]

I know. It’s very frustrating. Not a clue what to do. Spain is terrible at the moment - al let everything is getting stopped - even IOSS eBay stuff.

I’ve blocked Italy for now too, until they sort their horrendous postage issues out, which have existed since pre-Christmas.

Hope a good IOSS situation presents itself soon without relying on another party. It’s ridiculous we’re still in this position.

100% agree. I have just contacted my MP once more to follow up with the Treasury on this.

 

[Graham Wharton]

I looked into the whole VAT Mutual Assistance agreement thing. Looks like the UK DOES NOT have a VAT Mutual assistance agreement with the EU. The wording and protocol in the TCA is the steps and procedures laid out to enable the negotiation of a VAT Mutual Assistance agreement between the UK and the EU.

Here is the agenda of the first meeting of the "Trade Specialised Committee on VAT Administrative Cooperation and Recovery of taxes" held in December. This is the joint committee that would ultimately agree a VAT Mutual Assistance Agreement.

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https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/default/files/agenda_-_first_meeting_of_the_trade_specialised_committee_on_vat_administrative_cooperation_and_recovery_of_taxes.pdf

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I'd stop holding your breath guys. This ain't iminent.

 

[schmexit]

I looked into the whole VAT Mutual Assistance agreement thing. Looks like the UK DOES NOT have a VAT Mutual assistance agreement with the EU. The wording and protocol in the TCA is the steps and procedures laid out to enable the negotiation of a VAT Mutual Assistance agreement between the UK and the EU.

Here is the agenda of the first meeting of the "Trade Specialised Committee on VAT Administrative Cooperation and Recovery of taxes" held in December. This is the joint committee that would ultimately agree a VAT Mutual Assistance Agreement.

---

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/default/files/agenda_-_first_meeting_of_the_trade_specialised_committee_on_vat_administrative_cooperation_and_recovery_of_taxes.pdf

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I'd stop holding your breath guys. This ain't iminent.

It sure isn't. And it does not seem to be a priority for the government. That's why we have to put some pressure on our MPs.

 

[romeo b]

Royal Mail are still paying out compensation on Italy parcels over their 25 day limit, even if the tracking data shows they are still in customs. Get your claims in.

I’ve had numerous claims rejected, stating it’s not their responsibility if customs are holding it. Hit and miss I suppose.

I had 3 returns yesterday all from Spain from November orders, all “unclaimed” but customers said they never had any info to collect the items. Spain is proving a bigger problem for me presently with customs holding stuff and Royal Mail not paying out claims due to them being in limbo.

 

[jfrm]

On this Spain issue, we hit this problem fairly early after IOSS was implemented - Spanish customs started returning most everything. But we found a solution that works. We put each new Spanish order on hold, email the customer a preprepared message ask for their personal Spanish tax number or their EORI number if they are a company. We also explain that this is only required by Spanish customs and no other country in the EU just to make the point that it aint our fault! This number gets put on the commercial invoice.

 

[jfrm]

What's troubling me more is the new French-only requirement from 1 Jan that you must be registered for VAT in France in order to pay French import VAT. We aren't French VAT registered and *really* don't want to be because we once were and it was the worst and most expensive bureaucratic nightmare I've ever seen in my life. Makes HMRC seem customer-focussed.

So we've suspended all orders > 150 euros on our website (with a careful note in French explaining why and pointing out that France is the only EU country to require this - vive la moronic difference). And we've suspended Amazon France completely because with Amazon you have to send DDP and even if we only sold goods under the IOSS threshold, it's impossible to avoid B2B users who do not incur IOSS VAT so their shipments do incur French import VAT.

Does anyone have any insights here? Has anyone carried on sending their shipments over 150 Euros into France and not encounted problems? We understood that theoretically, unless you are VAT registered, they should be returned...

 

[DefinitelyMaybeUK]

ask for their personal Spanish tax number

That sounds useful We don't do much Spanish trade but the occasional one pops up - oddly we do more Canary Islands and they've always been picky keen on the recipients personal tax id when sent via a courier.

 

[DefinitelyMaybeUK]

French-only requirement from 1 Jan that you must be registered for VAT in France in order to pay French import VAT

Are you sure on this - is there a link? Our understanding was that this only brought a French recipient/importer in line with the likes of what the UK had been doing the past year with postponed VAT. A French VAT registered business now needs to have an EORI number and you (the sender) need to include that on your documentation - the receiver then doesn't pay their import VAT upfront as it would just be reclaimed in any case. As far as sending goods to France goes, I don't believe there's any changes needed for you, apart from getting a VAT registered customers EORI number (we had one French customer who didn't have their EORI and having applied, it was issued next day - you can check an EU issued EORI on the EU website). That said, we're likely to be getting a gendarme visit any day

 

[jfrm]

No I'm not at all sure - it was simply my interpretation of what I'd read in a couple of places about French VAT changes from 1 Jan. I will revisit. If any UK entity not registered for VAT in France has been sending DDP shipments > 150 Euros to France since 1 Jan without any problems, it would be really nice to know?

 

[jfrm]

Here is a PDF from DHL on it:
https://express-resource.dhl.com/rs...t-reg-changes-2022-overview-2021-download.pdf

I read through this again and came to the same conclusion due to statements like:

• If Non-EU established shippers want to act as an importer, they must have a French VAT ID and appoint a fiscal representative in France to fulfill the VAT related obligations as of 1st January 2022
• This means that companies acting as Importer of Record in France will require a valid French VAT number.
• ONLY in case a non-EU Business Shipper wants to act as Importer, a valid French VAT number is required and a Fiscal Representative must be appointed to comply with its VAT obligations.

However, I can see that it might just be ambiguously written and you could well be right that it does not apply if you are not already VAT registered.

 

[DefinitelyMaybeUK]

Thanks for the PDF, hadn't seen that before.

I read through this again and came to the same conclusion

Not so sure myself - I assume you're in the UK and exporting to France, by say, DHL parcels or another express service, like UPS etc? In which case you are NOT the importer, so none of the items in the document apply, apart from adding a business (aka VAT registered) customers VAT/EORI details:

shippers should include the French VAT number of the Importer on the Commercial / Proforma Invoice (French VAT Number of the Importer of Record (IOR) together with the Importer of Record (IOR) Company Info – if different than receiver (Name/Address/Contact/EORI No)

In summary, there's no need for you to register for UK VAT or French VAT. If you're sending to a private individual, then again, no changes required, they'll just pay VAT (and duties if applicable) to the customs folk.

We've sent to VAT reg'd businesses this year (parcel DDU) and also to individuals (both DDU and DDP, via UPS and Royal Mail) and not seen any issues.

 

[ADC]

What's troubling me more is the new French-only requirement from 1 Jan that you must be registered for VAT in France in order to pay French import VAT. We aren't French VAT registered and *really* don't want to be because we once were and it was the worst and most expensive bureaucratic nightmare I've ever seen in my life. Makes HMRC seem customer-focussed.

So we've suspended all orders > 150 euros on our website (with a careful note in French explaining why and pointing out that France is the only EU country to require this - vive la moronic difference). And we've suspended Amazon France completely because with Amazon you have to send DDP and even if we only sold goods under the IOSS threshold, it's impossible to avoid B2B users who do not incur IOSS VAT so their shipments do incur French import VAT.

Does anyone have any insights here? Has anyone carried on sending their shipments over 150 Euros into France and not encounted problems? We understood that theoretically, unless you are VAT registered, they should be returned...

If you ship anything over 150 EUROS by DHL with InXpress you can pre pay the VAT, so it doesn't get stopped. That's what we do. You would need to open an InXpress account though.

 

[ChrisGoodfellow]

We've written a guide to IOSS based on the comments in this thread and public documentation. Clearly, businesses are struggling and we hope it provides a useful overview to help understand the legislation.

https://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/threads/eu-ioss-signup.412355/

It would be great to get feedback from some of the experts in this thread; is there anything we should change or add?

I want the resource to develop over time, so please share your ideas and we'll update the article as we get feedback.

 

[LHow]

Does anyone know how much Parcelforce's delivery partner in Germany charge in Handling Fees (non-IOSS, VAT to be paid by customer) for a parcel going to Germany please? I know Royal Mail's partner is Deutsche Post & that they charge 6 Euros handling fee, but I've got no idea about Parcelforce?
Edit : Parcel value is below 150 Euro, so customs duty would not be involved.

 

[LHow]

We've written a guide to IOSS based on the comments in this thread and public documentation. Clearly, businesses are struggling and we hope it provides a useful overview to help understand the legislation.

https://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/threads/eu-ioss-signup.412355/

It would be great to get feedback from some of the experts in this thread; is there anything we should change or add?

I want the resource to develop over time, so please share your ideas and we'll update the article as we get feedback.

I am not an expert, but a guide to alternatives to IOSS sign up, such as Taxamo, Crossborderit & others, as have been mentioned on this thread would be helpful. Many smaller companies cannot afford the costs of IOSS themselves.

 

[DefinitelyMaybeUK]

It would be great to get feedback

You included this section:

There isn't a generic EU IOSS portal, so it’s best to pick the country you do most of your trade with. Paul said that many businesses are choosing to register with the Republic of Ireland because the website is in English and has lots of helpful information.

but I think this is misleading - It implies that UK businesses can register via the RoI revenue site to sign up for IOSS, but in fact they can't because they need a intermediary - this is the crux of the matter. It would be useful to add the reasoning (i.e failure of the EU/UK TCA VAT mutual assistance agreement, as covered buy a few posts in this thread) and maybe note that only Norway can sign up themselves ?

Anyone who has contacted the ever helpful Irish revenue will no doubt of received a reply along the lines of:

“The EU Commission had provided an update on the situation regarding the current requirement for UK traders registering for IOSS” and that “EU Member States can only operate from the agreements currently in place. To date proposed Agreements as a result of negotiations between the EU and GB are provisional and decisions are outstanding in the Mutual Assistance Agreement on Administrative Cooperation and Combatting Fraud in the field of VAT and on Mutual Assistance for the Recovery of Taxes and Duties.” They went on to say, “Norway is the only third country with which the Union has concluded an agreement on mutual assistance - similar in scope to Council Directive 2010/24/EU and Council Regulation (EU) No 904/2010 - and no changes to this agreement are currently planned by the Commission.” Therefore, “UK Taxable Persons and their agents must appoint an EU established intermediary to register for IOSS and use the scheme at this time.”

As Ms Truss has now moved on, I'd recommend writing to Rt. Hon. Jacob Rees-Mogg M.P as the new Minister for Brexit Opportunities and Government Efficiency and ask what he will be doing about reducing paperwork as far as IOSS goes and why you need to shell out 2k+ a year for the current privilege of an intermediary.

That said, the Taxamo solution at least looks very favourable for low volume, sub €150 orders - although we've not gone down this route while the dust was settling and it wasn't our core shipping method, but will be in coming weeks. The Royal Mail PDDP is working fine as an alternative, albeit to a limited number of countries, but without the €150 restriction.

 

[capacitum.com]

Hi All,
I wouldn't waste time registering for IOSS. We did this and went through the process and to be honest customs throughout EU are very inconsistent. 3/5 parcels were still being charged duty and taxes and nothing we could do sorted this out. Personally I think this issue will be there permanently.

 

[japancool]

This is achieved by a unique parcel routing and clearance process.

Hmm. Please explain more details of this process.

If I were to use it, I would need to know that it's legit and that it's not going to disappear when the EU notices and closes whatever loophole you're exploiting.

 

[Simon Perkins]

There are distinct nuances in the interpretation of EU import regulation in each of the member states. For instance, a widely known frustration for UK shippers is certain HS codes (or tariff codes) are able to enter certain states and not others.
We use one entry point for customs declaration. Following this, the parcels are then in free EU circulation and will be delivered cross-border to the consignee without any further customs entries required.
One of the reasons most UK shippers are having so many problems, is that the big mail and parcel carriers have to route parcels and make customs entry directly into each of the 27 EU member states. Therefore they need to be compliant to all the nuances that this entails. Due to their sheer scale they will be unable to use one entry point as we do. Hope that helps. We'd be delighted if you were to trial our service.

 

[capacitum.com]

I would truly advise you to stay away from IOSS!!!

 

[LHow]

Germany EPR Compliance (packaging)

I've had an email today from eBay stating that I need to register for the German packaging system which essentially accounts for what packaging you use, and distribute, into Germany. I only send hard-backed recyclable envelopes with small value items (usually

www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk

I found this post accidentally, it's regarding the new German Packaging Act, which I knew nothing about. I know that many of you on this thread are selling to the EU so thought I should mention it here. I'm now trying to figure it out!

 

[Simon Perkins]

I would truly advise you to stay away from IOSS!!!

Agreed. Logistics companies like SAMOS are adapting to the changes and creating completely new types of delivery services in response. There are ways of shipping in to the EU without any hassle with or without IOSS number - if you know where to find it:

 

[schmexit]

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2022-04-14/154199

"Although the EU Commission has not been willing to progress a solution, the UK continues to press the Commission to take the necessary steps to exclude the UK from the requirements on fiscal representatives for the EU Import One Stop Shop scheme."

How is this the EU's fault now, when the UK government is the one that has not negotiated a mutual assistance agreement for VAT?

 

[schmexit]

Germany EPR Compliance (packaging)

I've had an email today from eBay stating that I need to register for the German packaging system which essentially accounts for what packaging you use, and distribute, into Germany. I only send hard-backed recyclable envelopes with small value items (usually

www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk

I found this post accidentally, it's regarding the new German Packaging Act, which I knew nothing about. I know that many of you on this thread are selling to the EU so thought I should mention it here. I'm now trying to figure it out!

Important stuff. A number of EU countries require this now, not just Germany. If you sell your products directly to end customers, you are definitely liable in Germany, Austria and France. Possible other countries too - best to check.

 

[NWH]

I am a small business successfully selling via my web site to the 'rest of the world', outside of the EU. I am selling to EU via eBay to comply with IOSS. Their costs are pricey but seem to operate smoothly. I am wondering if the time is now right to reintroduce my own web site for direct sales to the EU. I sell via Shopify and understand there have been interface hiccups with third party solution providers. I have been studying EAS Project in Finland who seem to charge 1.25 Euros per package regardless of size. Is there anyone operating via Shipofy who use this IOSS interface, please?

 

[Simon Perkins]

Certainly is the time. Here at SAMOS, we've developed an entirely different EU parcel service because no other parcel delivery service could effectively offer a service to small companies without an IOSS number. Firstly, our hybrid solution exports to the EU through via one country, making customs procedure immeasurably easier. Secondly, we are also able to reverse EU import VAT (free of surcharge) back to the UK shipper (you charge this in the checkout process). The ultimate result is that your EU customers' experience of buying from you is exactly the same as it was before Brexit. They transact with you once in the checkout process and then take delivery. Your customer will never have VAT, duty or local admin charges to pay before delivery. Enables you to confidently build customer loyalty and repeat business again right across the EU, without the need of an expensive IOSS number. Just google 'samos eu shipping solution' and you'll see the information on our website in the search results. we have a Shopify app too. Hope this helps. I can't post a link here unfortunately.

 

[Jan Schwarz]

I'm using my own IOSS number via Crossborderit and this working flawlessly so far. I'm using Woocommerce but they have an integration for Shopify.

 

[schmexit]

This looks like a good option. Maybe we should create a sticky with a comparison between all the available services - joining fees, minimums, per parcel fees, etc.

The EAS project in Finland seems cheaper than Taxamo. And integrating Taxamo has been a NIGHTMARE.

 

[TractionEngine]

Hi folks, long time reader of this post but have only just signed up, thought it could do with a bump. Crazy that after all this time there is still no user-friendly solution. My company have stumbled onto a solution just by trial and error with different courier companies - some handle fees etc better than others. EAS Project looks like a good option so will do a bit of research on them.

 

[NWH]

Hi folks, long time reader of this post but have only just signed up, thought it could do with a bump. Crazy that after all this time there is still no user-friendly solution. My company have stumbled onto a solution just by trial and error with different courier companies - some handle fees etc better than others. EAS Project looks like a good option so will do a bit of research on them.

Hi, I would be very interested in what you find with EAS Project. I am a small business but we sell throughout EU. We are a 'large letter' user mainly. I currently use eBay, Esty etc for the EU IOSS collections/payments. I have looked at loads of operators. Companies like Avalara for example, virtually ignor me. They take days to respond. I think we are too small and they are not interested. OK we are a start-up but one day!

 

[Simon Perkins]

We absolutely have a solution to this. It does require a change of mindset. Rather being concerned about what you can't do, we looked at what you can do. You don't need an IOSS number to use our service solution. It's ideal for micro, small and medium sized e-com businesses who find everything expensive, confusing and preventing them from selling into Europe. This is the real issue - the large parcel delivery companies clear parcels into to each of the 27 EU member states. Each member state has different rules and regs about what they will and won't accept from the UK. The large parcel delivery companies have to do it this way because of their sheer volume levels and they can't route parcels any other way. We don't have that problem. We operate a one-country customs entry and distribute internally within EU cross-border from there. This makes it immeasurably simpler. We deal with the VAT too, a bit like DDP but without charging ridiculous surcharges. Talk to us, it is genuinely seamless and very, very simple. We've tripled in size in the last 6 months so we are doing something right! Thanks, Simon.

 

[NWH]

We absolutely have a solution to this. It does require a change of mindset. Rather being concerned about what you can't do, we looked at what you can do. You don't need an IOSS number to use our service solution. It's ideal for micro, small and medium sized e-com businesses who find everything expensive, confusing and preventing them from selling into Europe. This is the real issue - the large parcel delivery companies clear parcels into to each of the 27 EU member states. Each member state has different rules and regs about what they will and won't accept from the UK. The large parcel delivery companies have to do it this way because of their sheer volume levels and they can't route parcels any other way. We don't have that problem. We operate a one-country customs entry and distribute internally within EU cross-border from there. This makes it immeasurably simpler. We deal with the VAT too, a bit like DDP but without charging ridiculous surcharges. Talk to us, it is genuinely seamless and very, very simple. We've tripled in size in the last 6 months so we are doing something right! Thanks, Simon.

It seems you are not really a 'large letter' handler. You quote for weights up to 1kg. No mention of weights below 500 grms for example. I assume your 2021 price list includes VAT charged to the seller for each parcel and the customer makes no payment on top of that charge. Also, I can see no reference to ecommerce retail interface. Do you link to Shopify for example. https://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/threads/eu-ioss-signup.412355/