Vlad the Invader - Why not just take him out?
- Thread starter simon field
- Start date
Have to agree with you the guy is a total mad man, what annoys is the lack of action (previous) from Boris, Biden, Macron these leaders are just a shambles you have to take a firm stand against mad men and bully's I can only see this now leading to armed intervention by NATO
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That's exactly what we did. Everyone knew this day was coming, the just hoped it wasn't on their watch.
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Meanwhile they have built up $100 Bs in foreign reserves to ride out any sanctions.
Germany needs to suck at the Russian oil tit. No effective sanctions (like locking them out of SWIFT for banking) will be imposed, or will not last long.
They're already turning to China.
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Yup. Sanctions will simply make Russia chuckle.
We have no weapons. Of course, we can go on Twitter and call him names. Because that will totally work.
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And Taiwan this afternoon has scrambled it’s own aircraft to warn off nine Chinese fighter jets lets hope they not planning anything whilst we are all focusing on Putin
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Let's not worry though Boris will be addressing us at 5.00 followed by Biden at 5.30 they'll have it all sorted out by tea time. If it wasn't so serious it would be funny
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A very regular occurrence, on Jan 24 for example China sent 39 jets in to the Taiwan Defence Zone and it barely got a mention in the news here.
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Heart breaks for the ordinary citizens who just wish to live in peace, the several weeks of obvious lead up to this invasion makes it worse in many ways.
What is the answer? Not sure myself, doubt anyone is willing to die for Ukraine, apart from its own armed forces. So the rest of the world will stand by and fidget nervously, ashamed at how weak we have become.
What is the answer? Not sure myself, doubt anyone is willing to die for Ukraine, apart from its own armed forces. So the rest of the world will stand by and fidget nervously, ashamed at how weak we have become.
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OK, he's dead. Who replaces him and how will they react?
Will he be replaced by someone who loves the West and all its "values", who'll totally understands why we killed their elected leader?
Or will he be replaced by someone worse, who will promise revenge for the murder of their president?
How do you think America would respond if it's president was killed?
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There's not anything NATO can do. The US isn't interested in anything overseas. They lack the energy or impetus for conflict after Afghanistan/Iraq.
Without the US, NATO lacks any credible military capability. It can barely defend itself.
Putin knows the US, NATO and the EU are weak, financially and militarily. This is just one of many phases to be played out over the next few years. The response from NATO has been horrifically useless, so expect smaller members to be petrified and perhaps seek to move away from the group, if they feel the protection being offered is barely worth bothering with. Which is exactly what Russia/China want. Strange that isn't it.
Without the US, NATO lacks any credible military capability. It can barely defend itself.
Putin knows the US, NATO and the EU are weak, financially and militarily. This is just one of many phases to be played out over the next few years. The response from NATO has been horrifically useless, so expect smaller members to be petrified and perhaps seek to move away from the group, if they feel the protection being offered is barely worth bothering with. Which is exactly what Russia/China want. Strange that isn't it.
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T
The Byre
After Putin ordered a wide-scale invasion of Ukraine overnight, the Moscow Stock Exchange (MOEX) posted a notice that “it had suspended trading on all its markets until further notice.” The Russian oligarchs must have howled because a subsequent notice indicated it would restore trading at 10:00 a.m. Moscow time.
Shortly after the exchange opened, however, the U.S. dollar-denominated RTS Index plunged by 50% and the MOEX Index had tanked by 45%.
The stock market pain spread across the largest publicly traded companies in Russia. Gazprom, one of the largest natural gas companies in the world, lost 54% during the worst part of morning trading. Rosneft, another large Russian energy company, slumped by as much as 59%t. Novatek, Russia’s second-largest natural gas producer lost 48% while one of the largest banks in Russia, Sberbank, fell by 47%.
The Russian central bank does not have unlimited money to support Putin’s military aggression against a neighboring country. And with significantly broadened sanctions expected today from the U.S. and much of Europe, which is expected to further hit Russian banks and Russia’s ability to sell its debt, Putin may have created an unanticipated financial crisis at home instead of a muscular display of his military prowess.
The interventions by the Russian central bank had helped the Russian stock indices and major Russian companies trim losses somewhat by 3:20 p.m. Moscow time. But what will happen when the heavier sanctions hit the newswires throughout the coming days is impossible to predict, but will prove interesting!
Shortly after the exchange opened, however, the U.S. dollar-denominated RTS Index plunged by 50% and the MOEX Index had tanked by 45%.
The stock market pain spread across the largest publicly traded companies in Russia. Gazprom, one of the largest natural gas companies in the world, lost 54% during the worst part of morning trading. Rosneft, another large Russian energy company, slumped by as much as 59%t. Novatek, Russia’s second-largest natural gas producer lost 48% while one of the largest banks in Russia, Sberbank, fell by 47%.
The Russian central bank does not have unlimited money to support Putin’s military aggression against a neighboring country. And with significantly broadened sanctions expected today from the U.S. and much of Europe, which is expected to further hit Russian banks and Russia’s ability to sell its debt, Putin may have created an unanticipated financial crisis at home instead of a muscular display of his military prowess.
The interventions by the Russian central bank had helped the Russian stock indices and major Russian companies trim losses somewhat by 3:20 p.m. Moscow time. But what will happen when the heavier sanctions hit the newswires throughout the coming days is impossible to predict, but will prove interesting!
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A very good round up of events I also saw Putin had a meeting with leading business leaders probably trying to justify where all the money had suddenly gone. We have heard from Boris be interesting to see what Biden comes out with now apparently he's running about an hour late
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I wonder if putin actually has a long game or if he really is just flexing his muscle against NATO?
Anyway, to anybody whose minded 'just dive into battle' just step back and ask yourself if you would be prepared to take responsibility for a decision which would definitely put thousands of lives at risk and potentially lead to nuclear war?
I mean really take responsibility, not just bar talk?
Anyway, to anybody whose minded 'just dive into battle' just step back and ask yourself if you would be prepared to take responsibility for a decision which would definitely put thousands of lives at risk and potentially lead to nuclear war?
I mean really take responsibility, not just bar talk?
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No. Because he was either:
A) Very unpredictable and a concern for Russia. Trump wouldn't want to be seen as weak.
or
B) Putin had him in place and was biding his time.
Possibly a mixture of both.
Apparently, Russia have calculated the financial impact of all this and any sanctions are likely to hurt western countries too, as lots of money, gas, oil etc has Russian paws on it at some stage.
Also a possibility that China may provide financial assistance, in return for support over Taiwan. They've got very friendly over the last couple of years and China are almost ready to unveil their military projection capability using air, sea and land to quickly establish superiority over any enemy. This may be demonstrated on Taiwan - an attack of such scale and firepower, it will render the world speechless.
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Of course they like what he's doing. Military victories make people feel like their country is strong. That's why the Germans went along with a certain Austrian corporal, and that's why Maggie won a landslide victory after the Falklands.
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We have lost it we just dont have that ferocity in our people anymore . We have depleted our armed forces and there is no appetite in this country for war .
I dont like Boris either but I would be behind him if he showed some metal He always wanted to be a force for good in history . Now here is his chance !
I dont like Boris either but I would be behind him if he showed some metal He always wanted to be a force for good in history . Now here is his chance !
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Maybe free countries such as ours are so busy, and I am not saying they are not important but drag the focus away from what is really going on in the world. Whilst we talk about transgender toilets, being green doing away with coal, nuke power stations, drilling for gas, Boris’s wallpaper, Brexit, cycle lanes in London. We don’t own our steel, water, gas companies., even British Airways is a Spanish company. Our army is depleted our Navy has next to nothing we have two new aircraft carriers one is still covered in scaffolding in Portsmouth the other was moored up last week whilst crew are on leave.
We have Politian’s (we voted for) who have not got a clue, we have political parties taking money from foreign nationals, we let foreign nationals launder huge sums of money through our financial systems and turn a blind eye to the football clubs and property they buy.
So they argue this morning about the SWIFT system and cannot agree why ……… because if the likes of Germany agree to turn it off where are the likes of Germany and his neighbours going to get their gas from.
I could go on and on, rant is over, and the UK markets have just opened., going to be another busy day
We have Politian’s (we voted for) who have not got a clue, we have political parties taking money from foreign nationals, we let foreign nationals launder huge sums of money through our financial systems and turn a blind eye to the football clubs and property they buy.
So they argue this morning about the SWIFT system and cannot agree why ……… because if the likes of Germany agree to turn it off where are the likes of Germany and his neighbours going to get their gas from.
I could go on and on, rant is over, and the UK markets have just opened., going to be another busy day
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And none of this is going to make the slightest difference to the conflict. The tanks will keep rolling and missiles keep firing and people keep dying.
I doubt there will be any agreement on providing troops. No country will want to take on Russia in what is their home territory with such a long logistics chain. Even back in the Cold War it was recognised that the forces in Germany couldn’t stop a full on invasion. At best we could slow them down a bit.
I doubt there will be any agreement on providing troops. No country will want to take on Russia in what is their home territory with such a long logistics chain. Even back in the Cold War it was recognised that the forces in Germany couldn’t stop a full on invasion. At best we could slow them down a bit.
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This is what we learn from history.
A leader emerges who does not operate to normal logic. Whether they are evil, mad or just the same as you would be if I gave you absolute power, I cannot say. But it happens. And the rest of the world, spotting this happen, do nothing, because quite often those leaders know how to appease or buy off those people.
The UK is has relatively modest military power, and in any case, Putin would almost certainly hit the nuclear button. You know that idea that nuclear is a deterrent? It turns out they lied to you. It is not, if the other side is run by a total evil nutter.
We can take away the pocket money of a few rich Russians and stop buying Vodka. Putin does not care.
We have zero power. The only solution is a time machine.
And all the history we were taught? Well, we didn't learn it, because it was taught in a lopsided, rose tinted way, in which we all sang the national anthem and told ourselves we are amazing.
A leader emerges who does not operate to normal logic. Whether they are evil, mad or just the same as you would be if I gave you absolute power, I cannot say. But it happens. And the rest of the world, spotting this happen, do nothing, because quite often those leaders know how to appease or buy off those people.
The UK is has relatively modest military power, and in any case, Putin would almost certainly hit the nuclear button. You know that idea that nuclear is a deterrent? It turns out they lied to you. It is not, if the other side is run by a total evil nutter.
We can take away the pocket money of a few rich Russians and stop buying Vodka. Putin does not care.
We have zero power. The only solution is a time machine.
And all the history we were taught? Well, we didn't learn it, because it was taught in a lopsided, rose tinted way, in which we all sang the national anthem and told ourselves we are amazing.
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Exactly. While Europe remains dependent on Russian gas nothing much will happen while Putin acquires the territory he wants. The Baltic states will be next would be my guess.
Whilst we are not dependent on Russian gas (~3% of our usage) we are at the mercy of world prices and predictions now are we will be paying £3K/year for our energy. Time to face down the eco loons and start fracking. £500/year or £3000/year for energy? Bit of a no-brainer that.
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T
The Byre
On a point of order, he is not a sociopath, but a narcissist. The terms sociopath, psychopath and narcissist are often chucked about carelessly, when in fact they are three different personality disorders with three very different causes.
A sociopath has learned to disregard the feelings of others, either through abuse or peer pressure. This condition is common to criminals and to people who are members of a group that pride themselves on ignoring others' feelings or needs (e.g. gangs, some military and police units). It is a curable condition.
A psychopath is born that way and is in part or totally incapable of emotions towards others or being aware of their emotions. Although it is not curable, most psychopaths lead fairly normal lives.
Johnson (along with almost all other leaders of political parties) is a narcissist. We used to call this condition 'having an inferiority complex'. It is a fear of one's own shortcomings and a fear of being found out. Lying becomes second nature to the narcissist and they will even lie about trivia such as where they bought bread that morning. They lie about every aspect of their lives and the lives or those around them, inventing events and/or conditions to diminish others in that process we call gaslighting (from the film 'Gaslight').
The narcissist is very often the spoilt child who received every toy and advantage, but little love. Although the condition is eminently curable, it seldom can be, as the narcissist will fight tooth-and-nail to maintain their fictitious world of deception around themselves. Although they can appear very charming, they are dangerous and unpleasant people and are always destructive within any company or organisation. I've had a couple of these people in my company and once we are aware of what they are, they get the bum's rush immediately.
Calling out a narcissist is often dangerous as it brings on a rage attack.
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As for Putin, he seems to suffer from what I would call Mugabe Syndrome, a sort of narcissism squared! After a long time in power, he now believes in his own infallibility and almost divine leadership qualities. People like Hitler, Mugabe and now Putin start to act strangely as if they were quasi-deity and will attack those around them at the slightest signs of dissent. They descend into a mad world of their own invention, supported in their madness by a coterie of enablers.
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