HGV Driver shortage

[Mr D]

I think you will find that the English elected the Conservative government.

Think you will find the UK elected the Conservative government. Just a lot of those seats are in England.
I personally don't get to vote on who the government should be. I get to vote on who my MP should be. You are the same.
The party with more seats won than any other becomes government.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Ummm..... does this mean that the goods will get transported?
If UK businesses cannot move enough stuff themselves what are the other options?

I have an idea we could join a massive trade block right on our doorstep and enjoy shared trading benefits

 

[Mr D]

I have an idea we could join a massive trade block right on our doorstep and enjoy shared trading benefits

Good idea.
However would likely require a party who gives a damn getting into power or else a new referendum when us old fogies are dead.

Its quite possible we'd have a very similar problem even if we were still in the EU. Hell, we had a significant problem in driver shortages prior to last January!

 

[Newchodge]

So nobody in Scotland, NI or Wales voted conservative

The conservatives have a majority of 81. 6 are from Scottish constituencies, 14 are from Welsh constituencies, 0 are from N Ireland constituencies. so 20 from non- English constituencies. If those Scottish and Welsh constituencies had elected non-conservatives, the consrvatives would still have a majority of 41, all from English constituencie. The English elected this government.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

That just proves the English are more clever than the others, and elected a leader who can make decisions without hindsight

Nothing strange that more Scots move to England than English move to Scotland

 

[KM-Tiger]

The English elected this government.

By population England is very much larger than the other countries of the UK combined.

So it will always be true that the English elected .... whatever govt we have.

 

[Mr D]

The conservatives have a majority of 81. 6 are from Scottish constituencies, 14 are from Welsh constituencies, 0 are from N Ireland constituencies. so 20 from non- English constituencies. If those Scottish and Welsh constituencies had elected non-conservatives, the consrvatives would still have a majority of 41, all from English constituencie. The English elected this government.

Indeed they have a large majority currently. We both know that isn't always the case.
And we don't get to vote on who will be the government, we get to vote who will be the MP.
You (if you voted) cast your vote for a particular candidate. Me, in a different constituency voted for a different candidate. May have been same party, may have been different.
The candidate in a constituency with more votes than any other candidate is the winner and they become the MP. The party with the most MPs forms the government.

England doesn't matter - you and I don't vote for English government by popular vote. We vote for MP in local area.

And the Conservatives could lose an election. Pretty much a given these days that no seat is safe from changing which party MP they elect.
There's going to be a by-election due to the tragic death of a well loved conservative MP. Can you be certain which party will win that seat? Can you be certain of which party will take the most seats in next general election?

 

[DontAsk]

There's going to be a by-election due to the tragic death of a well loved conservative MP. Can you be certain which party will win that seat?

There may also be on in Leicester in the not too distant future. Keith Vaz's replacement may be heading for a criminal record. She sounds like a nice person to be an MP if the reports are true. NOT!

 

[japancool]

So the RHA have said they oppose cabotage, and Unite are considering strikes.

The RHA says it will get in the way of improved pay and conditions.

If there really are vacancies for 100,000 HGV drivers, there will be plenty of work and demand for HGV work.

Far be it from me to suggest conspiracy but one sometimes wonders...

 

[MBE2017]

So the RHA have said they oppose cabotage, and Unite are considering strikes.

The RHA says it will get in the way of improved pay and conditions.

I agree with them, the major reason their is a shortage of drivers is poor pay and conditions over the last 20/30 years. Just as the employers are being forced into at least improving salaries, they are given a temporary excuse not too anymore. I thought the conservatives believed in market forces, what the really believe in is tonight’s five second news bite.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Surely Cabotage works both ways. British Drivers spending more time on EU roads and eating at French Routiers would be a benefit for them. I've spoken to truckers who preferred a few days in the EU.

 

[LeasingEval]

I think we just need a remake of Smokey and the Bandit to glamourise the profession again.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Hey! we got ourselves a convoy
10-4 Rubber Duck

 

[Annoying Donkey]

I think we just need a remake of Smokey and the Bandit to glamourise the profession again.

Or "Confessions of an HGV Driver" a la "Confessions of a Window Cleaner"

Maybe showing my age here...

 

[Paul Norman]

The Co-op, whose shelves locally have been fairly empty in recent weeks, have just advertised for people to learn to drive their trucks - they are paying for the training.

That is, of course, the correct response by them, if a little on the late side. Whether they get any takers will be interesting.

 

[IanSuth]

Surely Cabotage works both ways. British Drivers spending more time on EU roads and eating at French Routiers would be a benefit for them. I've spoken to truckers who preferred a few days in the EU.

It is under EU rules but we left - what the govt are offering is a unilateral cabotage scheme where EU drivers can come here employed by an EU company under their T&C's being paid in the EU and do work here for 2 weeks at a time.

Nothing changes for a UK driver heading onto the continent

Hence the RHA say this is the worst of all options and we will see a bunch of small iffy far eastern European haulage firms sending trucks here on 2 week trips to just make as much as they can as quick as they can undercutting uk firms and doing nothing to persuade anyone to invest in uk drivers or infrastructure

 

[IanSuth]

The Co-op, whose shelves locally have been fairly empty in recent weeks, have just advertised for people to learn to drive their trucks - they are paying for the training.

That is, of course, the correct response by them, if a little on the late side. Whether they get any takers will be interesting.

And how soon they can get them into trucks and driving them - let's hope there are no insurance regs getting in the way. Look how many company insurance schemes say company car drivers must have x years of licence, I am guessing (maybe an insurance industry member on here can enlighten us) that hgv insurance must have similar small print (or a loading for less experienced drivers) as the possible payouts for an HGV incident are much higher than even the maddest 19yo field sales guy in repmobile

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Nothing changes for a UK driver heading onto the continent

Which just goes to show that the genius negotiator, Lord Frost, couldn't negotiate his way out of a paper bag.

 

[IanSuth]

Which just goes to show that the genius negotiator, Lord Frost, couldn't negotiate his way out of a paper bag.

I know it is the grauniad but i think it is factually correct https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ge-and-why-have-uk-road-freight-rules-changed

Quoted section

Under EU rules during the UK’s membership of the bloc, foreign-registered vehicles were permitted to make three cabotage journeys, provided they were completed within seven days, before the lorry had to leave the country.


However, after Brexit the UK limited the number of cabotage legs that vehicles could make within the country to two within seven days.

In contrast, UK-registered trucks are only allowed to make one cabotage journey on the continent, although they are permitted to make a couple of “cross-trade” trips – from one EU country to another.

What is changing?
In an attempt to ease the HGV driver shortage, the government is now proposing that EU hauliers would be allowed to pick up and drop off goods an unlimited number of times during a two-week period, before the trucker is required to leave the country.

 

[MBE2017]

Which just goes to show that the genius negotiator, Lord Frost, couldn't negotiate his way out of a paper bag.

I don’t think this is Lord Frosts idea, more a UK Gov knee jerk reaction. Either way, a terrible idea.

 

[thetiger2015]

I don’t think this is Lord Frosts idea, more a UK Gov knee jerk reaction. Either way, a terrible idea.

It looks like Lord Frost (or his team) did not fully understand the complexities of trade negotiations or how to negotiate a path out of a bloc. I don't expect the man to know every inch of every contract but I'd expect him to have an overview of what was negotiated and where the pitfalls lay. Now they're just paddling in circles and suggesting all sorts of absurd things, non of which are beneficial for the UK long term.

The COVID excuse is beginning to look a bit weak now. They used that as cover for nearly 2 years but, with more and more people returning to work across all sectors, the holes are beginning to appear. There's no employees left.

 

[NorfolkGuy]

I’m 36, had my Class 1 license for 4 years and am retraining as a plumber, I’ve never viewed it as a career but if you’re smart with it, you can manipulate your work/life balance to help you retrain. What a lot of people don’t realise is that full time employment with say a family run firm is quite different to agency work. I am employed part time with a family run company and whilst I’d never describe it as amazing, they look after you. I have agencies throwing themselves at me and there’s defo money to be made….I’m not greedy but everyone has their price right? I’ve told them I’m a flat £30 an hour, take it or leave it, no takers yet but I suspect it won’t be long!

 

[japancool]

Assuming this cabotage is temporary, it will give time for the industry to train up drivers and the license backlog to be cleared.

You can have shortages, or you can have cabotage. Which do you want?

 

[NorfolkGuy]

Assuming this cabotage is temporary, it will give time for the industry to train up drivers and the license backlog to be cleared.

You can have shortages, or you can have cabotage. Which do you want?

Shortages - foreign drivers scare the hell out of me even now. Mobile phone use is off the chart while driving for many of them.

 

[Newchodge]

Shortages - foreign drivers scare the hell out of me even now. Mobile phone use is off the chart while driving for many of them.

I make no comment as the matter is sub judice
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-58977509

 

[NorfolkGuy]

I make no comment as the matter is sub judice.

Tragic - I personally ask where is the enforcement with all of this. It’s not just lorry drivers, car drivers too. Cars is one thing, a lorry is quite another, The Difference being about 41 tonnes.

 

[thetiger2015]

Shortages - foreign drivers scare the hell out of me even now. Mobile phone use is off the chart while driving for many of them.

...but all that will happen, is the standards of UK drivers will drop, because they need to fill the void.

The urgency is drivers. So, the knee jerk reaction is just to get people in to vehicles ASAP and for remaining drivers to be forced to drive for longer, to cover gaps.

They cannot have shortages. It won't work for longer than a few weeks.

It doesn't look like they were serious about the visas anyway. The offer was atrocious. They knew foreign drivers would never accept a short term contract that expired at Christmas. It was all fluff, just so they could get a headline in the papers, to make it look like they were doing something. One of the RHA members was interviewed by the select committee earlier and admitted as much, it was a plan that was designed to fail but push the problem down the road a few weeks. Now it's too late...again.

 

[IanSuth]

I am wondering what happens when the ice and snow start - those big spreaders they use on the motorways need an HGV licence don't they ? And the smaller ones local around here are usually driven by people borrowed from the bin lorries. As bin collections have been slowed since mid summer (green collections have stopped completely) due to driver shortages who will keep the roads clear ?

 

[NorfolkGuy]

I am wondering what happens when the ice and snow start - those big spreaders they use on the motorways need an HGV licence don't they ? And the smaller ones local around here are usually driven by people borrowed from the bin lorries. As bin collections have been slowed since mid summer (green collections have stopped completely) due to driver shortages who will keep the roads clear ?

See my first post, a few above - me, for £30 an hour In all seriousness though, yes, there is a shortage of gritter drivers and it will cause problems if we get a harsh winter.

 

[Clodbuster]

My soninlaw drives a gritting truck and not with aHGV licence, they are rigid trucks so have a different licence. He has been asked to upgrade to HGV and waiting for it to go through. Been driving rigids for +20 years.

 

[NorfolkGuy]

My soninlaw drives a gritting truck and not with aHGV licence, they are rigid trucks so have a different licence. He has been asked to upgrade to HGV and waiting for it to go through. Been driving rigids for +20 years.

He will have his class 2 I’d imagine and be being asked to upgrade to class 1? Those sorts of people are the answer! Have the experience just not ever upgraded their license.

 

[IanSuth]

My soninlaw drives a gritting truck and not with aHGV licence, they are rigid trucks so have a different licence. He has been asked to upgrade to HGV and waiting for it to go through. Been driving rigids for +20 years.

Still an HGV licence just not the same one (class 2 not 1)

Anyone with a pre 1997 car licence can drive a C1E which is a rigid up to 7.5T with a small trailer (and minibuses) which includes the little local gritter on the back of a flatbed type gritters

Anyone with a car licence gained after that point (which includes me as I only had a motorcycle until my son was born) had to do separate tests even to pull a trailer behind their car

It is something older people don't think about when they start thinking abut such trivial things as who is going to drive a minibus for school away games - the world is more complicated than it used to be and driving licence categories are most definitely one of the weird and wacky areas (i have 6 different motorcycle categories listed on my licence due to the changes, AM,A1, A2, A, P & Q - AM, P & Q are near identical apart from minor differences over a top speed of 25,28 or 31 mph)

 

[DontAsk]

Anyone with a car licence gained after that point (which includes me as I only had a motorcycle until my son was born) had to do separate tests even to pull a trailer behind their car

You do not need to take a test to pull a trailer behind a car! See https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories

 

[Scalloway]

The rules are changing about towing trailers next month.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-rules-for-towing-a-trailer-or-caravan-with-a-car-from-autumn-2021

 

[DontAsk]

The rules are changing about towing trailers next month.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-rules-for-towing-a-trailer-or-caravan-with-a-car-from-autumn-2021

You can still tow a trailer without taking an extra test, but that page is surely wrong

you’ll be allowed to tow trailers up to 3,500kg

That's way heavier than you can tow at the moment. Someone seems to have confused the weight of the tow car with that of the trailer, or the combination.

 

[KM-Tiger]

Rather heartening to see that Dominic Raab a launching a scheme to train ex-convicts as HGV drivers.

Seems win-win to me with ex-convicts gaining useful employment and helping to solve the shortage at the same time.

 

[NorfolkGuy]

Rather heartening to see that Dominic Raab a launching a scheme to train ex-convicts as HGV drivers.

Seems win-win to me with ex-convicts gaining useful employment and helping to solve the shortage at the same time.

Ive met a few drivers that have left prison - it suits many of them Really well, no office ‘jobsworth’ waxing lyrical about ‘going forwards’, but enough communication and oversight that keeps them feeling as though they’re looked after. It’s a good thing in my book.

 

[japancool]

He could train up a few to be butchers too.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

He could train up a few to be butchers too.

Or Cabinet Ministers.

 

[IanSuth]

You do not need to take a test to pull a trailer behind a car! See https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories

I do until Nov 15th when the rules change to say I can - although as i grew up reversing tractors and trailers i am likely slightly better prepared than many

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-rul...tumn-2021#what-youre-currently-allowed-to-tow

And yes it does really say a MAM of 3.5T to allow more mad untrained caravan drivers on the road, as far as i understand it currently pre 97 licence holders can drive a vehicle & trailer with a combined weight of 8.25T or a minibus with a 750kg trailer, now we will all be able to pull a 3.5T trailer (providing the towing vehicle is allowed to and subject to construction and use regs)

See clear as mud driving licences nowadays