Creating a web-based app / platform yourself

[gpietersz]

A spec for a project like this could run into dozens of pages.

Later, or as a basis for quotes, yes. For now something a lot more bare bones would help. One thing I have often found useful is wireframe sketches of what you envisage it looking like to be a good first step.

For most web apps I prefer developing an MVP and improving incrementally - going down the "release early, release often" route.

You may even need a combination of things.

Very true, people do use a mix of things successfully. For example, one of my clients has:

1. A Wordpress public website
2. A static HTML page with a fairly complex JS front end app. This is their subscription service.
3. A Django back-end for 2
4. Various other bits to help run it all

This sort of setup is not at all uncommon.

 

[Lucky8]

@gpietersz, let me ask you now that I've probably tired poor fisicx with my questions - what do you consider the differences between web apps and the websites with CMS which fisicx recommends?

And to your client examples, when do they use a website with CMS, when a web app, and with regards to the set up I have described, the push-pull interaction, the desktop/phone integration, which route do established similar-to desktop/mobile benefits/rewards systems go down?

I have wireframe sketches and I'm doing journey mapping. I don't think all this will be the problem (I have experience of this and UX), which is perhaps why I am skipping it a bit for the purposes of this thread.

What is, I'm afraid, still clear as mud as where this will lead me and what I need to be prepping for now. If it's some training I need for example, I want to get that in now in parallel to the mapping. What skills do I need to start looking for elsewhere. How much will this cost and what do I need to budget for, etc etc. I'm trying to answer these questions, and just mapping it doesn't do any of that.

 

[fisicx]

And to your client examples, when do they use a website with CMS, when a web app, and with regards to the set up I have described, the push-pull interaction, the desktop/phone integration, which route do established similar-to desktop/mobile benefits/rewards systems go down?

There is no single answer to this. There is usually combination of systems in use. It all depends on what you want to achieve. And even moreso, your marketing plan.

For example, if you are going to target FB users through an advertising campaign they will probably only need a mobile interface. You might convince some of them to install an app on their phone. But if you are targeting middle aged dads via an email campaign then you may only need a desktop system.

So to answer you question...

It depends.

 

[Lucky8]

And even moreso, your marketing plan.

For example, if you are going to target FB users through an advertising campaign.....

No, it won't be like that. The reason I gave benefits/rewards as my analogy, is because the set-up is similar too. So companies are the client, company/users will be licensed. All the research into which devices are needed has been done: it's desktop and mobile.

It all depends on what you want to achieve.

Doesn't all I've shared give you insight into what I want to achieve?

 

[mattk]

@gpietersz, let me ask you now that I've probably tired poor fisicx with my questions - what do you consider the differences between web apps and the websites with CMS which fisicx recommends?

And to your client examples, when do they use a website with CMS, when a web app, and with regards to the set up I have described, the push-pull interaction, the desktop/phone integration, which route do established similar-to desktop/mobile benefits/rewards systems go down?

You're really getting bogged down in semantics. It doesn't matter if you call it a website, web app, web-based application or whatever. Nowadays almost every website has a database backend, user profiles and serves dynamic content. That's what you want to do.

I agree with @fisicx, I would be looking at a CMS to sit behind all of this. The key requirements are the ability to have user profiles, serve configurable surveys and allow logic to determine the questions which are asked. Focussing on these three things should allow you to identify some suitable systems.

I implement HR technology for a living and have seen most major employee benefit solutions. They are generally very complex as employee benefits tend to be. I do wonder if you're biting off than you can chew. Have you actually researched the market to ensure you're not entering a very crowded area and spoken to companies to ensure you have a product that might actually have some demand?

 

[fisicx]

Doesn't all I've shared give you insight into what I want to achieve?

Not at all. It’s still very woolly.

It would help if you posted a link to an example of something similar.

 

[billybob99]

As with anything you need to have a decent pot of bunts (£££) you are willing to risk, invest, spend - however you want to word it.

Better use of your time is to actually get to the point where you know this idea will fly and people will pay for it, then worry about building it, not the other way around.

Then you can go to bed happy knowing you have a list of people who are ready to open their wallet as soon as you say open sesame.

Chances are when you market it, real world results won't match your anticipated results.

 

[Lucky8]

OK, thanks for the replies. I skipped the whole question of "is there a market?" and "have you done your research?" because it wasn't a query I was posing in this thread or is an area that I needed any help with. Perhaps I should have made that clearer. Yes, I've done all that, it wouldn't enter my mind to look into this or pose a question on here if I hadn't! By the way, this is not an employee benefits model, I said that the platform would be like one in terms of functionality.

So, here's an example of a much bigger but similar platform in terms of functionality: https://www.rewardgateway.com/uk/solution/employee-benefits

 

[gpietersz]

One thing you could do is start with a website that just lets people enter the information and process it manually to start with and then add more automations as you go. I have read that this is how Groupon started. Its a bit "fake it till you make it" but as long as you actually provide the service promised I do not feel its unethical.

In terms of the functionality it looks to me as though most of your functionality is custom rather than what you can expect to work out of the box with a CMS. Its precisely because I develop things like this that I switched from Wordpress to Django many years ago (after trying several other things, including some classic NIH developing my own CMS and web app server).

A CMS will give you content management out of the box - its does what it says on the tin.

A web framework will give you the useful tools a CMS would (use profiles and authentication, and admin UI, etc.), may have third party code you can reuse to do some of what you want (pick something with a good ecosystem) and will be far better suited to developing custom functionality.

In your case I would suggest looking at something you can learn to code yourself - take a look at the major frameworks. Even if you just get started and hand it over to to someone else to develop long term, the familiarity will be useful in managing it (hiring the competent people and checking code quality). One of the biggest problems I see is non-IT people managing developers end up with no idea that they have an unmaintainable code base.

 

[fisicx]

So, here's an example of a much bigger but similar platform in terms of functionality: https://www.rewardgateway.com/uk/solution/employee-benefits

That uses a range of different platforms to deliver the service. They have a website to promote the tools, another website/web app to administer the service, mobile app for users and a whole load of server side stuff to make it all work.

As has already been said. There is no single solution. Whatever it is you want to deliver will almost certainly need more than one answer.

Reading the rewardgateway case studies it seems each one was bespoke. There wasn't a one application they sold to everybody. And they spent a lot of time researching each client before writing a single line of code.

Which brings us back to you. We still don't know what it is you want to do.

 

[Lucky8]

@gpietersz - you're spot on with the "fake it 'til you make it' approach. In some ways behind the scenes that's what I thought we might have to do, and I'm comfortable with that.

To help me understand - and a big thank you to you, @billybob99, @fisicx and others for taking the time to go through this with me - could you elaborate on some points you've made and what you mean. If I quote each bit I'm not clear on it might be easier and it would be great if you could refer to the rewardsgateway.com example I gave as we're both looking at the same thing then.

In terms of the functionality it looks to me as though most of your functionality is custom rather than what you can expect to work out of the box with a CMS

In tangible terms by looking at rewardsgateway.com, what do you class as custom and what would be out of the box CMS? Note, they sell a package that is 100% off the shelf, and a package that is totally customisable and by that I mean they revamp the UX, which pages load when etc with a client for a few months. The engine I presume stays much the same. They provide a main website and an app can also be used for some bits.

I'm not sure if you're referring to all this tailoring for clients when you refer to custom functionality or if you are saying the functionality *I* want is custom? I'm considering offering a lightly tailorable off the shelf product to start with.

A CMS will give you content management out of the box - its does what it says on the tin.

A web framework will give you the useful tools a CMS would (use profiles and authentication, and admin UI, etc.), may have third party code you can reuse to do some of what you want (pick something with a good ecosystem) and will be far better suited to developing custom functionality.

Back to the example, if a CMS was used, what would be a real-life consequence of that? ie so that would mean a user could do abc on rewardsgateway.com but not xyz? Or information can only be served this way, but not that way to a user. Or is it more about our ability to do things with the platform, designing and maintaining it? I'm having trouble translating the characteristics of the various technologies into their impact and implications for the purpose of the platform.

In your case I would suggest looking at something you can learn to code yourself - take a look at the major frameworks.

In terms of "web frameworks" is this the same as website themes? Or the no-code platforms like Bubble which was mentioned previously? Any other recommended web frameworks?

I definitely know this is not something I want to maintain, this will be handed over to others to refine and grow while I concentrate on the business. I just want to a) get a prototype up and running and b) be able to move swiftly to get a full (if early) product developed to be used by our first few clients. No code or little code routes to get us up and running would be great.

 

[fisicx]

I'm considering offering a lightly tailorable off the shelf product to start with.

This is really difficult to do without a lot of resources. I've been developing wordpress plugins (that function as web apps) for years and nobody wants to tailor anything themselves. They give you a spec and pay you to make it so.

There isn't ever going to be a no-code way to do this. Everything you want to do will need coding. Even a billy basic version is going to need someone to develop the functionality.

To give you an idea of an off the shelf product you could customise. Years ago I was part of a team that built a coupon platform. The idea was small shopkeepers could sign up and join in a national coupon scheme. They spent just over £100,000 on the application and mobile apps and over £50,000 on marketing. It failed in less than a year. Everyone thought it was a great idea but it just didn't get any traction. That's the sort of costs you will be looking at.

 

[Lucky8]

We still don't know what it is you want to do.

All the information I've given doesn't seem to be explaining this to you. Would you like to try asking me the questions that you'd like answered?

I've been developing wordpress plugins (that function as web apps) for years and nobody wants to tailor anything themselves.

No, not tailored themselves, tailored by us, only at the UX level.

Everything you want to do will need coding. Even a billy basic version is going to need someone to develop the functionality.

What is it about the no/little-code development platforms that wouldn't achieve this?

They spent just over £100,000 on the application and mobile apps

OK, so that example with a cost is helpful as an illustration. So talk me through in a summary about the elements to that coupon platform, and why it cost £100k. Thanks.

 

[Lucky8]

P.S.

Reading the rewardgateway case studies it seems each one was bespoke. There wasn't a one application they sold to everybody. And they spent a lot of time researching each client before writing a single line of code.

They have a 100% off the shelf product and that's closer as an analogy.

 

[fisicx]

All the information I've given doesn't seem to be explaining this to you. Would you like to try asking me the questions that you'd like answered?

You say it's not employee benefits, what is it you want to build? Who are you targeting? How do you plan to market this thing?

You say users set up profiles and answer questions. Are they quizzes, surveys, conditional forms?

What happens on completion? Do they get a prize?

What is it about the no/little-code development platforms that wouldn't achieve this?

Because they are limited on functionality. They give it away for free knowing you will need their paid help to do anything useful

OK, so that example with a cost is helpful as an illustration. So talk me through in a summary about the elements to that coupon platform, and why it cost £100k. Thanks.

8 developers on £400/day plus graphic designers, content managers and others (I was employed for my UX skills). That 100K was spent in a month.

 

[Lucky8]

You say it's not employee benefits, what is it you want to build? Who are you targeting? How do you plan to market this thing?

If the functionality is so similar to the example I gave, and all the ways I've described how it works, how I market it etc shouldn't make any difference surely.

You say users set up profiles and answer questions. Are they quizzes, surveys, conditional forms? What happens on completion? Do they get a prize?

This is a small function which we might not do, although the user profiles part is mandatory anyway. If we did, they'd be multiple choice quizzes. No prizes.

Because they are limited on functionality.

Can you give some concrete examples of these limitations, referring to the set-up I have described?

8 developers on £400/day plus graphic designers, content managers and others (I was employed for my UX skills). That 100K was spent in a month.

Ah sorry, I meant the elements of the work needed, rather than the resources. ie. What needed to be done by the resources you listed.

 

[gpietersz]

There isn't ever going to be a no-code way to do this. Everything you want to do will need coding. Even a billy basic version is going to need someone to develop the functionality.

I agree with this. The functionality is too custom and specific to do with a no-code solution - and I do mean the functionality you want.

They spent just over £100,000 on the application and mobile apps and over £50,000 on marketing.

Maybe, but depending on the functionality required and the details if could be a lot more or a lot less. I think picking the right platform to start with and starting with an MVP would make a big difference.

In terms of "web frameworks" is this the same as website themes? Or the no-code platforms like Bubble which was mentioned previously? Any other recommended web frameworks?

No, to clarify, I am talking about backend web frameworks. They are essentially a web development libraries plus some useful code to make it easier to setup and manage. A web frame work is a base on which you might write a CMS or any other kind of web app. They can also provide a backend API for mobile apps and similar. Here is the tutorial for the one I use: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/3.0/intro/tutorial01/ I love it and its been what I have used for most of my web development work.

Other alternatives I think are worth looking at are https://guides.rubyonrails.org/ and https://laravel.com/docs/8.x

In tangible terms by looking at rewardsgateway.com, what do you class as custom and what would be out of the box CMS?

Its hard to be sure without a demo, but, if you look at the "employee communications" features page, its stuff like "customised blogs" and "unlimited pages". That is functionality you would expect a CMS to provide.

On the other hand things like surveys and vouchers are not standard CMS functionality. You might find CMS plugins to do those, but I think you would need to be lucky to find ones that do what you want, which means writing your own, which then means you would be better off with a framework.

You could also pick a framework that has a CMS written in it, use the CMS to get started quickly and then write your custom code in the same framework. Its easier to integrate that way.

You could also use an entirely separate CMS and integrate where necessary.

 

[fisicx]

If the functionality is so similar to the example I gave, and all the ways I've described how it works, how I market it etc shouldn't make any difference surely.

Yes it does! How you market and to whom you market drives the whole UX/UI

This is a small function which we might not do, although the user profiles part is mandatory anyway. If we did, they'd be multiple choice quizzes. No prizes.

This is all going to be bespoke code

Ah sorry, I meant the elements of the work needed, rather than the resources. ie. What needed to be done by the resources you listed.

A lot of meetings to develop the framework, library integration, UI development, workflow development, thousands of lines of code and everything in between.

 

[mattk]

Back to the example, if a CMS was used, what would be a real-life consequence of that? ie so that would mean a user could do abc on rewardsgateway.com but not xyz? Or information can only be served this way, but not that way to a user. Or is it more about our ability to do things with the platform, designing and maintaining it? I'm having trouble translating the characteristics of the various technologies into their impact and implications for the purpose of the platform.

It doesn't really work like that. What a CMS will give you is a lot of the backend code, such as a database, business logic and a lot of the front end for standard activities, such as a user creating a profile, updating it and so on.

Think about the standard CRUD operations for a user. In order to create a user profile you need database tables to hold the values, you need a web page to collect the data and you need the business logic to take the user's input, validate it and pass it to the database.

A CMS gives you all this for free. Without the need to code all that stuff yourself.

You will then find some that have very specific features, such as the ability to create surveys, which seems along the lines of what you're trying to achieve.

The other benefit of a CMS is that it allows you to produce content, in a consistent format, without having to hand code pages.

For a very simple example, have a look at surveymonkey.com. They allow you to create a survey, without the need to write any code. It includes the ability to add logic, so you can skip a question based upon an answer and so on.

The flip side is once you have configured your survey, surveymonkey.com will create a web page you can display to your users and it has all the standard functionality you'd expect, tickboxes, free text and so on. Again, you didn't have to code any of this.

Now, I wouldn't call surveymonkey.com a CMS. As I said, you seem to be getting bogged down in semantics, rather than focussing on the features and functionality you're trying to achieve.

My advice would be to focus on the features you want. Then do some research to find off the shelf tools which can do them. For example, this link shows 10 free survey tools. From there, you need to drill into the each to find if they offer the ability to have user profiles and so on until you have a shortlist of tools which meet your requirements.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it is easy and you may well have to compromise (which is why most large web-based applications are custom built), but for an MVP this is the quickest approach.

 

[Lucky8]

How you market and to whom you market drives the whole UX/UI

I guess we just disagree on this point. The UX is based on our research and client requirements, user behaviours and journeys etc, but isn't driven by our marketing stategy. Maybe we're talking about different things?

This is all going to be bespoke code

I had a quiz on a simple WP website once, it was just a plugin. Hardly any coding required. Is this so very different?

A lot of meetings to develop the framework, library integration, UI development, workflow development, thousands of lines of code and everything in between.

Translated into the customer's perspective, rather than the developer's project plan, where did the 100k get spent, on what components? eg. 10k to create a coupons database which looked like ABC. 10k to create the shopkeepers database which meant DEF. That kind of thing.

 

[gpietersz]

I had a quiz on a simple WP website once, it was just a plugin. Hardly any coding required. Is this so very different?

If the plugin does what you want, then its fine. As I said, if you are lucky you may find something that already has all the plguins you need.

The problem is when plugins do not do what you need so you have to write custom code.

Think about the standard CRUD operations for a user. In order to create a user profile you need database tables to hold the values, you need a web page to collect the data and you need the business logic to take the user's input, validate it and pass it to the database.

A CMS gives you all this for free. Without the need to code all that stuff yourself.

If the CMS happens to gather exactly the information you need when it creates a profile. Otherwise you need custom code.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it is easy and you may well have to compromise (which is why most large web-based applications are custom built), but for an MVP this is the quickest approach.

Definitely take shortcuts, but there is a danger in this approach: you use an external service or off the shlef software, then you put a lot of effort into integrating it with everything else you do which then because a barrier (because you need to redo it all) to moving to a custom solution later.

 

[Lucky8]

My advice would be to focus on the features you want. Then do some research to find off the shelf tools which can do them.

I agree with this point, and your whole post. I'm clear on the features and functionality. I think that the research part to find the off the shelf tools that do this means that I have to know how to specify those off the shelf tools in the first place. The surveymonkey example you gave is nice and simple - I've used surveymonkey too as a user so I'm very familiar with what it does. So it's easy to search for survey tools, as you say, drill down into the specific requirements and so on.

This appears much more difficult. The primary feature, put crudely, is users are served up content depending on their profile settings. They might do this by logging into a website, or push notifications on their phone. That's where the technology questions become tougher. Another feature is occasional quizzes.

Trying to frame the "which tool?" question to commence the search is maybe where I am at. To do that, the discussion has had to get technical, by its very nature. I agree too, the MVP is the way to go.

 

[mattk]

If the CMS happens to gather exactly the information you need when it creates a profile. Otherwise you need custom code.

It depends what you're trying to do. if it is standard user information, then any content management solution should be flexible enough to capture what you need. Of course, using off the shelf there is a compromise between what you gain in ease of use and speed of delivery compared to ultimate flexibility to go exactly what you want.

Definitely take shortcuts, but there is a danger in this approach: you use an external service or off the shlef software, then you put a lot of effort into integrating it with everything else you do which then because a barrier (because you need to redo it all) to moving to a custom solution later.

That isn't really a danger, because the alternative to using off the shelf is building a custom solution from scratch and no one would do for an MVP.

 

[fisicx]

Maybe we're talking about different things?

We are. UX is a hugely complicated subject. You rarely get a perfect fit for everyone. Which is why you end up doing a bespoke solution for each client. Unless you have a very narrow target for your marketing in which case you can build an off the shelf took. Marketing drives everything.

II had a quiz on a simple WP website once, it was just a plugin. Hardly any coding required. Is this so very different?

Indeed, in the same way you can find a plugin to create user profile or a script to generate content from a library. But linking the profile to the quiz to the correct content and other functions needs coding. And you then discover you can't link the profile to the quiz because of how they work or the content becomes so generic as to be worthless.

Translated into the customer's perspective, rather than the developer's project plan, where did the 100k get spent, on what components? eg. 10k to create a coupons database which looked like ABC. 10k to create the shopkeepers database which meant DEF. That kind of thing.

I don't know. I wasn't part of the costing team.

 

[fisicx]

They might do this by logging into a website, or push notifications on their phone.

Which means you need a website/web app AND a mobile app. Which means you may need a whole different architecture.

 

[mattk]

I agree with this point, and your whole post. I'm clear on the features and functionality. I think that the research part to find the off the shelf tools that do this means that I have to know how to specify those off the shelf tools in the first place. The surveymonkey example you gave is nice and simple - I've used surveymonkey too as a user so I'm very familiar with what it does. So it's easy to search for survey tools, as you say, drill down into the specific requirements and so on.

This appears much more difficult. The primary feature, put crudely, is users are served up content depending on their profile settings. They might do this by logging into a website, or push notifications on their phone. That's where the technology questions become tougher. Another feature is occasional quizzes.

Trying to frame the "which tool?" question to commence the search is maybe where I am at. To do that, the discussion has had to get technical, by its very nature. I agree too, the MVP is the way to go.

I think you need to dig a bit deeper into your requirements. So for example, let's say a user completes a survey. "Are you married?", "Do you have kids?" etc.

Then based on the answer the user is presented with several options. If they are married then they are prompted to add their wife to their private health insurance, if they have kids, then they are offered enhanced life insurance and so on?

Is that along the lines of your thinking? To me, that sounds like fairly bread and butter stuff most content management systems should be able to do.

And again, as @gpietersz says, there is nothing wrong with a bit of smoke and mirrors. Don't discount doing things by hand (you, not the user) until you have a subscriber base that justifies a more complex, automated solution.

Finally, I know you are very keen on push notifications, but these are generally leading you down the route of native mobile apps, so again, for an MVP I would keep it simply and maybe focus on email?

 

[Lucky8]

We are. UX is a hugely complicated subject. You rarely get a perfect fit for everyone. Which is why you end up doing a bespoke solution for each client. Unless you have a very narrow target for your marketing in which case you can build an off the shelf took. Marketing drives everything.

I think we are using different meanings for the word 'marketing' and 'marketing strategy'. Our business model, market analysis, proposition and research across everything drives the solution, not the marketing strategy. There may be small tailoring for each client, but we certainly won't be doing a bespoke solution for each client. That's not our business model, nor is it the business model of the off-the-shelf rewardsgateway.

I don't know. I wasn't part of the costing team.

Or a list of the components then, without the cost?

 

[Lucky8]

Which means you need a website/web app AND a mobile app. Which means you may need a whole different architecture.

I've said all along we need that.

 

[Lucky8]

So for example, let's say a user completes a survey. "Are you married?", "Do you have kids?" etc.

Surveys would be rare, but if we did them they'd be more passive and basic than that. Answers wouldn't drive the next content. Multiple-choice quizzes are more likely, we just need to serve up the questions, tailored to each user, it wouldn't be the same quiz across all 100 employees on the same day, tell them how many they got right, and their score is recorded in their profile, and the quiz was completed.

Don't discount doing things by hand (you, not the user) until you have a subscriber base that justifies a more complex, automated solution.

Agreed. So that brings me right back to Page 1 and question 1 - because I want to create it with as little coding as possible on my own shoulders, without hiring developers at this stage, to show a working prototype, sell it to our first clients, evolve the prototype so it's at least does what I say it does, maybe manually slog away at the back end for a bit, but quickly know the route to getting it fully up and running if, say, a client with 3000 users suddenly yes please, thank you very much, where is it then?

Finally, I know you are very keen on push notifications, but these are generally leading you down the route of native mobile apps, so again, for an MVP I would keep it simply and maybe focus on email?

This problem with native apps is why I was asking if this could be done via a web app instead. I've considered emails for push, I'm not too keen, it just doesn't fit well. Someone suggested Slack?

 

[fisicx]

I think we are using different meanings for the word 'marketing' and 'marketing strategy'. There may be small tailoring for each client, but we certainly won't be doing a bespoke solution for each client.

OK. Then your development costs are going to be huge. The more generic the model to bigger the project as you have to build in zillions of options.

A far easier way to do things is put together a very simple application and sell add on modules. It's a very lucrative business model. This way you can get something up and running in a few weeks to test the market.

Or a list of the components then, without the cost?

Sorry can't help you with this. In any case not sure it would be of much use. I know there was a complicated pdf generator for the coupons and a massive user table shared between a number of servers. Two of the developers only worked on the mobile app. I was part of the UI/UX team who did weeks of user testing. The whole thing was very modular with a scaled pricing structure. The free version just let you create coupons which users could redeem if they downloaded the app. But they couldn't convince people to get the app. We got corner shops offering 10p off a can of coke if you brought a mars bar. Nobody would bother installing an app for this.

 

[Lucky8]

OK. Then your development costs are going to be huge. The more generic the model to bigger the project as you have to build in zillions of options.

How so? Again, I wonder if we're on the same page and talking about different things. The off-the shelf rewardsgateway has 3 fixed modules, within that the client journey is fixed, the options are the same, the UX is identical, job done. We'd probably have one fixed module/purpose, everything is fixed except some light tailoring which we may offer. By that I mean that red click box might be first for client 1, third for client 2.

A far easier way to do things is put together a very simple application and sell add on modules.

Now, in terms of extent of content, I think you're right. Let's say we want to serve up content for car buyers, house owners, and trapeze artists, we might only serve up the content for car owners first. I know that's not the modules you were talking about, but I'm with you on that general approach.

The coupon platform you write about sounds like fundamentally it was a flawed business model, but it also sounds very complicated/expensive for a simple coupon system.

 

[mattk]

Surveys would be rare, but if we did them they'd be more passive and basic than that. Answers wouldn't drive the next content. Multiple-choice quizzes are more likely, we just need to serve up the questions, tailored to each user, it wouldn't be the same quiz across all 100 employees on the same day, tell them how many they got right, and their score is recorded in their profile, and the quiz was completed.

Agreed. So that brings me right back to Page 1 and question 1 - because I want to create it with as little coding as possible on my own shoulders, without hiring developers at this stage, to show a working prototype, sell it to our first clients, evolve the prototype so it's at least does what I say it does, maybe manually slog away at the back end for a bit, but quickly know the route to getting it fully up and running if, say, a client with 3000 users suddenly yes please, thank you very much, where is it then?

I'm still not 100% what you're trying to achieve, so I'll stick with my example for simplicity. What I would be looking for is a tool which allows user profiles and then based on the profiles the ability to present different content. I would get users to sign up, create a profile, then present them with a survey link, to complete the questions. Then, here is the smoke and mirrors bit, each night I would export the results from surveymonkey and upload them to user's profile. Then the tool would present content based on the survey results.

Not elegant, but certainly enough for a working demo with only a few days of fettling to get it working right.

In terms of research, on top of the survey tools I linked to early,here are a list of membership site builder/platforms.

This problem with native apps is why I was asking if this could be done via a web app instead. I've considered emails for push, I'm not too keen, it just doesn't fit well. Someone suggested Slack?

I'm certainly not a mobile app developer, but I am not aware of push notifications for web apps. I don't know how you could do push notifications in Slack either.

 

[fisicx]

Now, in terms of extent of content, I think you're right. Let's say we want to serve up content for car buyers, house owners, and trapeze artists, we might only serve up the content for car owners first. I know that's not the modules you were talking about, but I'm with you on that general approach.

Dead easy to build. All the profile would do is have some checkboxes for the topics and when they login you show posts from the relevant category. You could build this in a day using something like WordPress.

The coupon platform you write about sounds like fundamentally it was a flawed business model, but it also sounds very complicated/expensive for a simple coupon system.

The idea was sound, it failed because they just couldn't get enough people to sign up and use the thing. Marketing again.

 

[Lucky8]

Then the tool would present content based on the survey results.

Sorry I should have clarified, the content is not survey dependent. I keep getting asked about surveys and quizzes, I keep answering, but that is giving the wrong impression! 90% of the feature is the serving up of content based on a user's profile. Quizzes, and rarely the odd survey, is something extra. There *might* be a need to change the serving up of some content depending on a quiz, but that's more a bell and whistle, not a key feature.

Thanks for that link, very useful.

 

[Lucky8]

The idea was sound, it failed because they just couldn't get enough people to sign up and use the thing. Marketing again.

I'm asking this as I'm just curious - their route to market is different to ours - if the idea was sound, how was demand so low after £50k was spent marketing it? So hardly anyone in their desired market knew about it?

 

[gpietersz]

90% of the feature is the serving up of content based on a user's profile.

That sounds like a job for a customised CMS, but it depends on what the content is. You are not doing everything rewardgateway.com does?

You can have push notifications in a web app.

 

[Lucky8]

but it depends on what the content is. You are not doing everything rewardgateway.com does?

Content format varies (mostly text, video occasionally etc). Functionality-wise (not proposition-wise), it's like the off-the-shelf rewardgateway.com, ie. a website/web app and/or app (don't want to start that again!) for employees. The stuff we need to record about the user and their interaction is a lot simpler than rewardgateway.com, but there is some two-way interaction, it's not zero.

You can have push notifications in a web app.

Yep, thought so. If we go down the web app route, rather than website + app, how does that change all the above recommendations and possible ways to make this happen?

 

[fisicx]

You can have push notifications in a web app.

Yes you can but the user needs to give permission. Most don't. And you can add push notifications to a website as well.

I'm asking this as I'm just curious - their route to market is different to ours - if the idea was sound, how was demand so low after £50k was spent marketing it? So hardly anyone in their desired market knew about it?

Everyone knew about it. They just didn't want to download an app. Example: customer goes into fish and chip shop and sees a poster for the app. They see the type of coupon and decide it's not worth the effort. That's what happens to nearly every app - only a very few succeed.

 

[Lucky8]

Example: customer goes into fish and chip shop and sees a poster for the app. They see the type of coupon and decide it's not worth the effort.

If they could not convince their market it was worth the effort, that doesn't sound like a sound business idea in the first place. If it were sound, demand (real demand) would be there.

 

[fisicx]

If they could not convince their market it was worth the effort, that doesn't sound like a sound business idea in the first place. If it were sound, demand (real demand) would be there.

The internet is littered with great ideas that failed on launch. Market research gets loads of positive feedback, people sign up for testing and there is lots of positive press. But when users were asked to pay for the service all that support faded away.

The apple watch, google glass and windows phone are just three examples.