So confused atm

[Matthew J]

I have a small business, as in Im the director and sole employee (although I do not use PAYE - minimum salary, expenses and dividends). I work in operations consultancy and tbh I cant see me getting much work anytime soon now because of whats going on.

Rather than closing the business, should I apply and/or am I eligible for the government loans? Ive tried reading links but I cant figure out a straight answer based on my situation. Are the loans received from banks? if so, are the rates better than they were before this?

Any advice would be great guys.

 

[Mr D]

Possibly.

The loans are via normal lenders - banks etc. Government just guarantee a large chunk of the balance.
May well be same rates as normal - banks are businesses. Except first 6 months you don't pay interest.

 

[Barksy]

Why should we have to take out loans when someone who works in a bar or restaurant gets 80% of their pay? What risk do employees take when they turn up for regular salaries? People like the OP and myself don't have any guarantee of income. We have to live on our wits.

This is so bloody unfair it is unreal.

5 million self employed won't forget being hung out to dry.

 

[Mr D]

Why the hell should we have to take out loans when someone who works in a bar or restaurant gets 80% of their pay? What risk do employees take when they turn up for regular salaries? People like the OP and myself don't have any guarantee of income. We have to live on our wits.

This is so bloody unfair it is unreal.

5 million self employed won't forget being hung out to dry.

No reason you should take a loan. Its entirely your choice.
May not qualify for a loan anyway - banks still not keen on risk when they face losing money.


Maybe something else will change soon - but don't bet on it helping much.
Just look at the track record of the last 2 weeks. Lots of promises, some help will filter down.
Not for everyone.

 

[Alison Moore]

.
This is so bloody unfair it is unreal.
5 million self employed won't forget being hung out to dry.

Company Directors take the risk to earn big - but equally that means that they can lose big too. As a company director you are not self employed, you are employed by your company. You might be able to class yourself as furloughed if you're on your company's PAYE scheme, but whether this will be allowable for directors is yet to be clarified. If you are self employed then help is coming, but it's not as easy for the government to give self employed help as there is no structure in place to facilitate it like there is with PAYE schemes and the rates system.

 

[Alison Moore]

In answer to the original question though, yes you would be able to apply for the government loans - I *think* they have said they will be interest free now, rather than 'preferential rates' (although please correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[ecommerce84]

Why the hell should we have to take out loans when someone who works in a bar or restaurant gets 80% of their pay? What risk do employees take when they turn up for regular salaries? People like the OP and myself don't have any guarantee of income. We have to live on our wits.

This is so bloody unfair it is unreal.

5 million self employed won't forget being hung out to dry.

They don’t take any risks, that’s the point!

They earn a very basic wage, but they largely know what to expect in their bank each month.

As Alison says, the business owners have the potential to earn the big bucks but could also make nothing.

That’s the way it’s always been, and everyone has a choice.

 

[Matthew J]

I think if I am eligible i will take a loan as Im predicting contracts wont come in now until probably August/September (omg now Ive written that its even more daunting).

As I said I do not pay myself on the PAYE scheme so Im not sure how muhc that effects me but looking at the banks' websites, they are not too informative atm.

 

[Opinion87]

Why the hell should we have to take out loans when someone who works in a bar or restaurant gets 80% of their pay? What risk do employees take when they turn up for regular salaries? People like the OP and myself don't have any guarantee of income. We have to live on our wits.

This is so bloody unfair it is unreal.

5 million self employed won't forget being hung out to dry.

I own a bar. My staff will all be receiving 100% of their salaries and wages. I'm also paying any self-employed "freelancers" we use (sound engineers, DJ's and the likes) out of my own pocket. Any money I receive in help from the Government will go straight back into the business and those around it.

Perhaps you should have fixed the roof whilst the sun was still shining, eh?

 

[Matthew J]

I own a bar. My staff will all be receiving 100% of their salaries and wages. I'm also paying any self-employed "freelancers" we use (sound engineers, DJ's and the likes) out of my own pocket. Any money I receive in help from the Government will go straight back into the business and those around it.

Perhaps you should have fixed the roof whilst the sun was still shining, eh?

I'm sorry buddy but why on earth would you write a comment like that.
This is an incredibly stresfful time for everyone, so smart-arse quips are completely pointless. You have no details on the other poster's situation, for all you know they could be in real trouble.

No-one could have seen this coming, I'm honestly disappointed that you would see this as an opportunity to show off.

 

[Mr D]

I think if I am eligible i will take a loan as Im predicting contracts wont come in now until probably August/September (omg now Ive written that its even more daunting).

As I said I do not pay myself on the PAYE scheme so Im not sure how muhc that effects me but looking at the banks' websites, they are not too informative atm.

From what some have been suggesting who are usually reliable the banks may lend only to those who can show they are a good place to lend.
Showing your business is viable - bearing in mind we cannot know this early how soon things can go to a new normal.

And some businesses - for whatever reason - will not recover. Bad luck, poor circumstances, annoying banks, idiotic politicians or simply too big a chasm to bridge. Some will fail, though that can help remaining business.

We do not know yet much about the government wage payment of 80 percent - whether company directors will qualify.
Think you would need to have been on paye.

 

[Opinion87]

I'm sorry buddy but why on earth would you write a comment like that.
This is an incredibly stresfful time for everyone, so smart-arse quips are completely pointless. You have no details on the other poster's situation, for all you know they could be in real trouble.

No-one could have seen this coming, I'm honestly disappointed that you would see this as an opportunity to show off. You have come across like a right pr..k and I hope you are more considerate towards people next time they are in need of advice/help.

It's not a smart arse quip at all. I'm small fry compared to a lot on here but still, across my businesses I have 30+ staff to think about. My Director of Operations is no different whatsoever to my Bartender. The comment suggesting that people working in bars and restaurants shouldn't be paid 80% of their wages BECAUSE they *only* work in bars and restaurants is rude, ridiculous, arrogant, stupid, naive and a whole bunch of other words I can't post on here because they'll result in a bad.

People working in bars and restaurants or any other similar job didn't want Covid-19 to happen and they didn't choose to be paid 80% of their wages.

How the hell am I showing off? You're right, no one could have seen this coming, but that doesn't mean you can't plan for something bad happening, does it? And yet you're suggesting that I'm showing off by being sensible and making sure I have money out aside for a rainy day? For making sure my businesses can weather a storm? I choose not to live on the edge- that isn't showing off, that's smart, that's sensible and that's good business practice.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I think you are absolutely nuts paying people where you don't need to
We dont know how long this will go on and worse than that we will be in a recession for a long time when this is over
Will these people still be there for you when you have given them all your money and you have nothing left yourself

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

We are in a fight for survival as businesses at the moment that's why I posted it
I think people are deluded assuming that the profits will roll in ,in a few weeks
if you want to see body parts you have the wrong site

 

[Opinion87]

I think you are absolutely nuts paying people where you don't need to
We dont know how long this will go on and worse than that we will be in a recession for a long time when this is over
Will these people still be there for you when you have given them all your money and you have nothing left yourself

I've been working with some of these people for the best part of a decade. I'm not going to sit in reasonable comfort whilst watching them struggle and do nothing. Will they still be there for me? Doesn't factor into my thinking at all. I can help them so I will, there aren't any conditions attached.

...... but I will say that at no stage did I say that bar staff should not get anything, or that I am better than them. I question why I and others like me don't seem to be worth saving, and that we take risks that others don't. The aid package is unequal and, unbelievably, most people agree with me.........

I'm not saying I don't agree with you and I do believe that a package to help the self-employed will be announced and will happen. My point was that just because they work in a bar or restaurant doesn't mean they don't deserve being paid.

How exactly am I swooping in and saving the day? By paying my staff? By helping out people I've worked with for nearly 10 years? Is looking after people that I don't actually have to look after not the epitome of pulling together and trying to help?

This is a business forum and life isn't fair. If you want to moan about that and talk about Batman and special pants perhaps you should find somewhere else. I hear Mumsnet is good.

 

[Opinion87]

We are in a fight for survival as businesses at the moment that's why I posted it
I think people are deluded assuming that the profits will roll in ,in a few weeks
if you want to see body parts you have the wrong site

Not deluded at all. I'm hoping that things will be relatively back to normal in 3 months but I'm preparing based on 6 months. Someone going to tell me I'm a show-off and swinging my d**k because I'm planning and preparing. Seriously.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Not deluded at all. I'm hoping that things will be relatively back to normal in 3 months but I'm preparing based on 6 months. Someone going to tell me I'm a show-off and swinging my d**k because I'm planning and preparing. Seriously.

I never said that Barksy said that

What I believe and it is just an opinion but it is all I can see as things are now . It will take a very long time to recover from this a lot of damage has already been done .

 

[Mitch3473]

I own a bar. My staff will all be receiving 100% of their salaries and wages. I'm also paying any self-employed "freelancers" we use (sound engineers, DJ's and the likes) out of my own pocket. Any money I receive in help from the Government will go straight back into the business and those around it.

Perhaps you should have fixed the roof whilst the sun was still shining, eh?

Wow, 30 staff all on full wages plus SE freelancers, interesting, coupled with no income....for how long ??? The world needs more like you.

 

[prophet01]

Why the hell should we have to take out loans when someone who works in a bar or restaurant gets 80% of their pay? What risk do employees take when they turn up for regular salaries? People like the OP and myself don't have any guarantee of income. We have to live on our wits.

This is so bloody unfair it is unreal.

5 million self employed won't forget being hung out to dry.

I couldn't help wondering why the anger and, in my view, the OTT vitriol.
Having read your initial member post, A tale of woe. Don't know what to do... I no longer wonder.

 

[Opinion87]

Wow, 30 staff all on full wages plus SE freelancers, interesting, coupled with no income....for how long ??? The world needs more like you.

30 odd staff across 3 businesses. wound down the 4th a few months ago. 7 of those are full-time, a few more on 25+ hours, the rest on a minimum of 14-hour contracts. Business 1 has a decent chunk of money put aside because we were planning on a large refurbishment which is now obviously on hold and will be scaled down, as well as having money for cash flow and a decent side pot for emergencies. The Government stepping in to cover 80% of some of those wages obviously helps a huge deal but most of the full-time staff are over the £2,500 limit and we should be eligible for the larger Business Rates related grant. Business 2 has enough money to see things through; no premises so no grant, 2 full-time staff that are both over the £2,500 limit, and uses a lot of freelancers; basically going into hibernation. Business 3 has a good amount of cash in the bank, plus has money put aside as we were going to buy our premises this year which will be put on hold; full-time salaries are all over the £2,500 limit but should receive the smaller Business Rates related grant. The 80% from the Government will help but there will still be money to be made up, and we'll be paying 100% wages. I've forecasted the next 6 months on the assumption that they'll all remain closed because I can't see there being any chance of things being remotely back to normal in the next 3 months. We'll be helping the freelancers we've been working with longest, moreso the ones that didn't have full-time, non-self employed jobs elsewhere as they're the ones that will need help the most. I'm taking a decent-sized pay cut and will use that to help those that I work with and care about, whether that's friends, family, co-workers, freelancers, the homeless guy down the road. There's also lockdown, which I'm now on day 13 of in Europe- which is very, very good for your bank balance as there's not a whole lot you can spend money on!

 

[Opinion87]

I couldn't help wondering why the anger and, in my view, the OTT vitriol.
Having read your initial member post, A tale of woe. Don't know what to do... I no longer wonder.

Thanks for sharing that. Explains a lot.

 

[Opinion87]

Why the hell should we have to take out loans when someone who works in a bar or restaurant gets 80% of their pay? What risk do employees take when they turn up for regular salaries? People like the OP and myself don't have any guarantee of income. We have to live on our wits.

This is so bloody unfair it is unreal.

5 million self employed won't forget being hung out to dry.

Happy now, or are you going to complain that it's still unfair?

 

[Rose Knowles]

Hey - just got back from Arizona after a mad dash halfway round the globe, having to pay for another transatlantic airfare cos Virgin didn't put *any* type of strong clear statement out about what they would or wouldn't do for people who were due back later than the 72 days they were scurrying to sort out.

And I read this thread and see that 'directors' might not be included in furloughed??!!? I'm a director of our aircon company, but I don't work full time at it. I'm kind of.....(and I know this sounds very gloat-y... but it's not.. not now... cos it's not gotten me anywhere with this weird virus-from-nowhere)...the person with the brain, as far as problem we have with the operation of the business. The other director is the day to day operations and FACE of the business.. goes and gets the contracts in etc... If ALL directors can't benefit from the furlough offer, I'm screwed..

I have my own little vintage online clothing business on the side so I was heartened to hear there will be some support for self employed also, but it's not enough to live on... not nearly..

Difficult times for all really!! I agree with the poster saying that as a director, YOU are in the position to 'benefit' the most from that position. You get to call the shots, you have the power to make decisions and reap rewards if things go your way - but I also agree with the other poster who's saying that being a director also involves a hell of a lot of risk, long long hours, the responsibility of ensuring staff are paid before you are, the buck stops with you...and now with this virus? the possibility of not being covered by furlough. That IS rough..

 

[Rose Knowles]

Another point on the 'directors' vs 'employees'.... as a director, I earn 2/3's of what our engineers earn.... so it's NOT always the case that the employees earn way less and the directors are having a swell time on daddys yacht... Some of us make sacrifices in order to ensure the company is viable and we do that to look *forward* to a sunnier day, AS we build it up.. We are always in the process of doing that.... and we were doing pretty well, being cautious.. I could easily have taken a larger salary but for the greater good, took a lesser salary... although, I have had benefits to being the person who calls some of the shots... That's about it tho.. Haven't had many financial benefits, for sure..

 

[kulture]

I have removed a number of off topic posts, and edited other posts to remove some of the more heated comments. This is a business forum and we should all treat each other with respect. If there is any further abuse in this thread, then I will be forced to take further action.

 

[Opinion87]

I have removed a number of off topic posts, and edited other posts to remove some of the more heated comments. This is a business forum and we should all treat each other with respect. If there is any further abuse in this thread, then I will be forced to take further action.

Perhaps there should be private area on the forum that can only be accessed by members that actually have businesses.

I note you've edited some of my posts. I believe I was the one that was being abused. Would appreciate a PM letting me know why, when you have a moment, please.

 

[kulture]

I went through the whole thread and edited posts that contained content that inflamed the the thread or were off tropic, or did not add to the thread. In doing this I ignored the poster name and just went with the flow of the thread.