I had to giggle - SEO quotes

[creospace]

I doubt someone charging £250 a month would of come near getting the same results.

Why? Surely it depends on the keywords you are competing for? Customers have paid me less and I've got those kind of results (not in a 'I do seo' capacity I may add.

It is a relative thing so very hard to make any absolutes.

 

I would suggest that if you generated £400,000 worth of business and charging £250 a month that I give you a job !!!

I must explain that some clients, in my direct experience, in particular large ones require a high level of service in terms of meetings and reports. In most months just the cost of meetings (car, petrol, tax, time) would be in excess of £250 per client. You can find yourself attending board meeting the other side of the UK and expected to be on hand. On of my sales guys manages 5 customers and thats his full time occupation.

I understand that small business has different requirement and would be happy with telephone based support and so on but larger companies are different.

 

[DotNetWebs]

I agree, a regulatory body is a bit of a pipe dream and a qualification probably useless

The problem is, if you choose the wrong SEO unwittingly (a Dark Grey or Black Hat) they can do as much damage to your business as getting an embezzler to do your book keeping.

Choose wisely folks

I agree with this too.

My previous reply to Earl was meant to illustrate how difficult it is to classify a 'professional' SEO. Comparisons with Barristers etc, have no relevance.

Regards

Dotty

 

And unlike Barristers some SEO's like been paid on results !

 

[am:pm graphics]

I had one side-splittingly funny quote of £65,000 to optimise for one primary keyword!!

...........

 

[simonr]

Frighteningly easy to pick the wrong SEO. For example, if I wasn't a mean, cynical bastard I would probably have gone with one of the SEO companies that spam me with offers of free reports and so on.

Interestingly, one of them even had a list of my target keywords included in the email - but hadn't bothered to check that for those very words I'm already on page one!

I love the idea of SEO by results as at least one person here does!

S

 

[c2webdesign]

Let's face it Google's alogorithm can change tomorrow. Can a SEO company guarantee that it won't - no. Can a SEO company guarantee that their work is full proof and will not be affected - no.

We carry out SEO, yes. Have we obtained good placements for good keywords, yes. Can we achieve first page results for generic words where the search results are in excess of 1 billion, yes. Do we charge £65,000.....not on your nelly. What are our secrets....well....

People often think the more expensive the SEO work the better their results will be. Not always true.

SEO is relatively easy. It does take time, this is what - in fairness - charges should be for.

Dave - out of curiosity what was your keyword to the search engines to find the UK SEO companies. Just SEO or SEO UK, UK SEO etc....?

Thanks,

 

[NiSiWi]

when looking at the cost you should also be considering return

i know plenty of companies that pay £30K-£60K for organic search marketing results because its cheaper than paying £70K for adwords!! and their website generates a £x00K in sales so its worth it for them

to get results takes time and companies need paying for their work - accept the cost or learn and do it yourself -it can take 6, 12 ,18 months to really see the results and to build the foundation

if your website does not provide a mechanism to allow it to pay for itself (directly or indirectly - sales or leads) in some way then dont bother with SEO

there are tons of so called "SEO" companies and gurus

the bottom line is - good SEO = good content and structure - has been and always will be

tweaking and optimising will move things only so far

the heavier the competition the more solid content you need

but SEO should be considered part of SEM or search engine marketing
because the design also impacts SEO and usability - no point getting people to your site and then turning them away

 

[Chris Jones]

when looking at the cost you should also be considering return

i know plenty of companies that pay £30K-£60K for organic search marketing results because its cheaper than paying £70K for adwords!! and their website generates a £x00K in sales so its worth it for them

to get results takes time and companies need paying for their work - accept the cost or learn and do it yourself -it can take 6, 12 ,18 months to really see the results and to build the foundation

if your website does not provide a mechanism to allow it to pay for itself (directly or indirectly - sales or leads) in some way then dont bother with SEO


there are tons of so called "SEO" companies and gurus

the bottom line is - good SEO = good content and structure - has been and always will be

tweaking and optimising will move things only so far

the heavier the competition the more solid content you need

but SEO should be considered part of SEM or search engine marketing
because the design also impacts SEO and usability - no point getting people to your site and then turning them away

Couldn't agree more!

 

[betterlanguages]

I think its like any industry, you need to shop around. Part of the problem is to be clear what you get for your money. More expensive doesn't always mean better. We've put in a lot of work on our own site, and are gradually working our way up the rankings without use of SEO, so far. I have no doubt that we can improve ranking with good SEO input, but I'm very cautious about who I'll use, and I'm not convinced by pay per click. We've got a lot of useful info out of Google analytics, and webmaster tools, and these are free services. If you do it yourself it isn't cheap though if you price in the time spent.

Would be open to sensible quotes from good SEO specialists who can show a good track record.

Hope this helps.

Mike

 

I think its like any industry, you need to shop around. Part of the problem is to be clear what you get for your money. More expensive doesn't always mean better. We've put in a lot of work on our own site, and are gradually working our way up the rankings without use of SEO, so far. I have no doubt that we can improve ranking with good SEO input, but I'm very cautious about who I'll use, and I'm not convinced by pay per click. We've got a lot of useful info out of Google analytics, and webmaster tools, and these are free services. If you do it yourself it isn't cheap though if you price in the time spent.

Would be open to sensible quotes from good SEO specialists who can show a good track record.

Hope this helps.

Mike

Well you got a bit of a problem there.

you would need a site redesign and at least 150 optimizable pages to start getting in with the big boys IMHO.

Earl

 

[betterlanguages]

Well you got a bit of a problem there.

you would need a site redesign and at least 150 optimizable pages to start getting in with the big boys IMHO.

Earl

Thanks Earl, so clients like Mothercare, New Look and Weetabix don't really count? I'd be interested to know your views on why we need the site redesigned.

Kindest regards

Mike
http://www.betterlanguages.com

 

Thanks Earl, so clients like Mothercare, New Look and Weetabix don't really count? I'd be interested to know your views on why we need the site redesigned.

Kindest regards

Mike
http://www.betterlanguages.com

You need to be able to present information to the search engines in a particular order .I don't neccessarily mean a graphical redesign.just the structure

Earl

 

oops apologies belay that the structure is pretty good page copy needs sorting out.

what key words are you going for/

Earl

 

[WebPageOne-Solutions]

Quoting an SEO project normally requires a good level of analysis prior to producing an accurate cost.

This includes On Page and Off Page analysis.
Keyword Research
Market Research - Competition

I would normally provide a 12 month contract to the client, assuming they had a list of around 40 keywords, which provides a high level project plan and monthly charge.

The Client would receive a monthly report detailing what has been achieved and a list of the current keyword positions.

PageRank is a Nice mark for quality, but Unique Focused Content optimized with relevant keywords should always be a winning combination.

 

[PaulattheFranchiseFair]

Hi Earl does makes a good point, that hasn't really been covered here - ie. Site structure.

Lots of the big/medium SEO companies will happily come and provide a consultation and quote for work that needs doing, but implementing that work can be another thing. Their suggestions can be almost pointless if you need to rebuild the site to implement them...

Please bear this in mind when going ahead!

 

[Volusion]

That quote seems a bit ridiculous, you'd think they would qualify you upfront before getting to a number like that.

That said, a lot of it depends on what that SEO company is doing for you. Completely reformatting code to be more css driven is one thing. Entering in a few metatags is something else entirely. There seems to be a lot an SEO company cannot do for you such as posting on forums that relate to your industry.

 

[Mark-UK]

My method of seo is research, then research again, then research some more, I get to know the company, the industry, the online market in that industry then research some more, then agree with my client the keywords to target.

Then I start the onsite seo then once complete start the offsite seo.

Then it's onto ppc which is a whole new ball game, I've used my methods on various shopping sites and all have done extremely well.

 

Make sure whoever you choose they belong to:
http://www.seocertification.org/

 

[ScottB]

> SEO certification?

Lol been an SEO for 6 years and never heard of em!

> Re: Algo changes

Good SEO won't really be impacted by algo changes - those generally affect borderline SEO techniques which are good one day and not the next. An experienced SEO knows how far to push the boat out before there is some risk involved (and IMO SEOs shouldn't put client's sites in any form of risk at all).

> Re: Prices

SEO pricing is a bit mad, but keep in mind that a competent SEO can make a nice living from setting up affiliate sites, etc - that raises their pricing structure for consultancy (and puts many of the good SEOs way out the reach of the job market, meaning many larger agencies struggle to hire experienced SEOs).

On the flip side though, high cost isn't necessarily an indicator of quality - I've seen some utter crap passed off as SEO for big brands in the past.

Scott

 

> SEO certification?

Lol been an SEO for 6 years and never heard of em!

From their website:

The pre-eminent source of information, education, and certification assessment for the constantly evolving Search Engine Optimization (SEO) industry worldwide, SEOcertification.org is the industry's first vendor-neutral certification developed by professionals for professionals. We work with experts and industry leaders from the private and public sectors, including training institutions, academia and government, to develop broad-based, foundational exams that validate an individual's search engine marketing skill set. SEOcertification.org has an international reputation for integrity and attention to detail. It is the clear first choice of industry professionals throughout the world.



Certification is the public's assurance that an individual has met rigorous, peer-developed and reviewed standards endorsed by a national professional body.

SEOcertification has 3 distinct programs to suit your needs:

SEO Certified Professional
SEO Certified Company
SEO Certified Trainer

Displaying an "SEO Certified" logo on your Web site is a proven-effective way to cement your customers' trust. The logo can be linked to a page verifying the integrity of your business. As well, your customers will feel safe knowing they are backed by Search Engine Optimization Certification's dispute resolution services.

http://www.seocertification.org/

*****

 

[RayB]

Make sure whoever you choose they belong to:
http://www.seocertification.org/

With respect that is useless and worthless. Any fool can set up a "certification" company online. Easy money

 

SEO certification £10

special mid-week bargain 2 for the price of 1

includes unique logo for your site

recognized throughout the industry.

PM for wholesale prices

 

[PaulattheFranchiseFair]

Earl, if you're selling certifications, can I suggest you may want to purchase one of my certified SEO provider certifications to help your cause...

 

Franchise certification £10

special mid-week bargain 2 for the price of 1

includes unique logo for your site

recognized throughout the industry.

PM for wholesale prices

 

[Chris Kaday]

I have never experienced an industry where quotations, approaches and knowledge levels vary so much. I have a very simple 'personality' site with no more than 20 pages with little change in content, which those who visit it really like. I just need to get higher on Google for a very few search words. I have now got lots of relevant ones to choose from. I am not looking to generate masses of enquiries as I offer most of what I do for free and just could not give lots of questioners the attention they deserve. So far I have:

• Received huge quote documents and 5 figure price tags which are just standard run offs of reports with no easy way to see what I would be getting and a low level of trust that they will deliver. They are also totally over the top for my small personal site
• Had a very few highly valuable discussions with SEO people who really know what they are talking about. This has resulted in identifying some clear problems with my site - great! But these wonderful knowledgeable people have a way of doing business which does not work for me. I am not an 'internet hobbyist' and have no motivation to become one. I just want to write a cheque and get a result. That is not to say I will not contribute to the word strategy, content etc but this really is not something I want to invest my time in learning. If I had a large ecommerce site then it would be essential but I don't.
• Received proposals from consultants who offer only half the solution. They would probably get my attention if they actively partnered with someone who would do the work and offered a total solution. As it is 'the implementation is not my problem sir' approach just creates another stage in the process with me in the middle.
• Accepted a very low quote and now realise the individual has low value/understanding to input, even at the first stage of word selection. My fault totally in making a poor section based on a very simple quote (great relief that) and low price.

So here I am, no further forward except I have learned a lot about the subject of SEO and now have some definite things to fix and a better grasp of the search words I should use.

Maybe there is no middle ground between getting ripped off and learning it myself (sound familiar to anyone?) but hopefully a hero will emerge (hint hint) to move me forward at some point. Meanwhile it is a nice sunny day and I am going round London to flex the plastic. Always a good solution for anything I can't solve immediately he he

Chris Kaday

 

[WebPageOne-Solutions]

Chris, whilst your out and about, if your near a good book store grap a copy of Search Engine Optimization for Dummies - Author Peter kent.

Ignore the title. Its a very good read and will confirm some of what you have read here.

 

Chris, whilst your out and about, if your near a good book store grap a copy of Search Engine Optimization for Dummies - Author Peter kent.

Ignore the title. Its a very good read and will confirm some of what you have read here.

I second that

from my point of view your business does not have enough meat in it for a poor old SEO like me

Give me a call when you start selling Ferrari's or Lambo's

Earl

 

[Chris Kaday]

Thank you for the suggestion which I am sure is well meant but the only use i would have for that would be to prop open my door on a windy day. I have little interest in this subject apart from the end result although I do recognize I need to understand the basic steps and issues which I now do. I am prepared to pay a fair commercial rate relative to the size of my site for someone who is really interested in me and the work, can identify the issues (some of which I now know!) and can fix them.

Chris Kaday

 

[RayB]

I think reading up and learning the basics of the subject is good advice, especially if you are going to outsource the work anyway.

The logic? - Well you will choose an SEO in a more informed way - and hoefully avoid choosing a bad one - by knowing what to look out for.

 

[Chris Kaday]

I think there is a difference between appreciating the basics and learning the basics. I already know the steps in the process. I have actually read a huge amount of the feedback on this site, had meetings with SEOs read lots of proposals and done an analysis of what people have been saying and identifying those suggestions and truisms which come up most regularly.

The quote I accepted actually made good sense and included the steps I was expecting. It was only when the SEO cane to do the work that I was dumped with the search word aspect. I only got some sense out of it from the string I put on here for which many thanks everyone.

Also no matter how much I read I could not have come up with the couple of errors which Ray immediately identified - he has been doing if for many years. It is not my understanding which is at issue here but the level of understanding and processes used by the SEOs and these are very different and difficult to determine until one gets into it.

I am also getting a bit sick of being 'wrong footed' on this subject every step of the way. It is I who need more understanding etc etc. I come from a world where we take responsibility for understanding what a client wants and providing a solution which will deliver that whilst possibly educating a bit along the way.

Chris Kaday

 

[Chris Kaday]

I think there is a difference between appreciating the basics and learning the basics. I already know the steps in the process. I have actually read a huge amount of the feedback on this site, had meetings with SEOs read lots of proposals and done an analysis of what people have been saying and identifying those suggestions and truisms which come up most regularly.

The quote I accepted actually made good sense and included the steps I was expecting. It was only when the SEO came to do the work that I was dumped with the search word aspect with no added value. I eventually managed to make some sense out of it from the thread I put on here for which many thanks everyone.

Also no matter how much I read I could not have come up with the couple of errors which Ray immediately identified - he has been doing if for many years. It is not my understanding which is at issue here but the level of understanding and processes used by the SEOs and these are very different and difficult to determine until one gets into it.

I am also getting a bit sick of being 'wrong footed' on this subject every step of the way. It is I who need more understanding etc etc. I come from a world where we take responsibility for understanding what a client wants and providing a solution which will deliver that whilst possibly educating a bit along the way. We do not expect a client to read the book which we should have read. There is only so far one can go before actually doing ti yourself and this I am not prepared to do - it does not matter that much to me in the big scheme of things.

I like the definition 'consultancy is the art of making the complex simple' and have always worked to that principal. SEO seems to prosper on the reverse of that.

Chris Kaday

 

[Mark-UK]

I'm amazed at the ignorance of some business owners who own online websites and scorn upon seo as a way of improving performance.

Seems once you get high up in a company you lose all sight of reality and the basics.

 

[Chris Kaday]

Who are these then Mark?

Certainly not me. No scorn here

I am thoroughly convinced of the benefits - just trying to get someone who knows what they are doing to deliver them for a reasonable sum

Also from what I have seen many SEOs do themselves no favours in the way they promote and quote their work.

Chris Kaday

 

[RayB]

Also from what I have seen many SEOs do themselves no favours in the way they promote and quote their work.

Chris Kaday

And therein lies the problem - SEO is about keeping abreast of the game - which often leads to secrecy - which leads to confusion and sometimes mis-information

 

[directmarketingadvice]

I'm amazed at the ignorance of some business owners who own online websites and scorn upon seo as a way of improving performance.

Seems once you get high up in a company you lose all sight of reality and the basics.

Huh?

I don't see where this scorn is.

I'm going to suggest that, if you find it hard to sell your service, then you should blame your service/marketing/selling, rather than blame your prospects.

Also from what I have seen many SEOs do themselves no favours in the way they promote and quote their work.

I agree.

I think there are 5 main problems:

(1) many of them shroud what they do in secrecy

(2) a lot of them are selling "I'll get lots of sites to link to you and google will love you for it" and, logically, that makes no sense at all (to someone who's not SEO-savvy).

"I don't get it, why should google love a site that gets lots of links? Especially when it's easy to create the links just because you want links?"

(3) Failure to give a convincing answer to "if the google algo changes so often, how can I be sure that my SEO will still keep working?"

(4) The failure to connect costs with benefits.

(5) The refusal to offer guarantees.

IMO, it's the failure to deal with those key issues that are causing prospects to walk away. You're asking people to buy a pig in a poke.

That's one of the things I like about Earl's approach: he takes away these risks from his clients, he only gets paid if he gets results ... and stops getting paid if the results stop.

(plus he's picking the right prospects to go after)

Steve

 

[ScottB]

Probaly the reason why I wouldn't trust your word that you are an SEO professional, if you've never heard of them.

England-Villages seems to have removed the comment now, but it slipped into my topic reply email notification first. There are no recognised SEO certifications - Adwords and Yahoo certification for PPC are the only things that even come close to certification.

Not only are SEOcertification.org unknown and unrecognised, I don't even recognise any of their members! Oh and it's worth noting that their member listing pages allow people to review the SEO company - the distinct lack of reviews is a good indicator of the popularity of the company and certification.

Perhaps they launched with a good idea, but they certainly haven't achieved the scope of industry recognition that is needed for most SEOs to even look at their site, let alone seriously consider the fee for certification.

Remember those award sites years ago - everyone could apply for an award and everyone would win and get to place a nice badge on their site. That was a link building scheme designed to take advantage of uninformed webmasters. SEOcertification isn't far off that.

So perhaps England-Village, you'd care to do some homework before you start publicly criticising people you don't know? God forbid I expect anyone to carry out the slightest due diligence, particularly when running along with the anti-SEO crowd, pitchfork in hand!

------------

With regards the rest of the comments, I do agree there are problems with the industry and there's a huge disparity when it comes to services and pricing but that's just an unfortunate nature of the way things have evolved over the years.

There's so much money to be had online and an experienced SEO pretty much can hold the key the coffers. When you look to hire the services of a quality SEO (be it a consultant or an agency) you are approaching someone who could spend their time developing their own web properties for more profit and less time.

I wrote a blog post the other day about my take on the state of the SEO industry - I fully believe there should be some form of independant moderation of the industry, but every attempt I have seen in the past have been from groups and individuals with their own agendas and they haven't gone far to do much for the industry.

I'm one of the non hands on SEOs who do only consultancy and back to the original post in the thread, I'm also one of the people who charge a lot - I've got a clients on the books paying £50k+ pa. While this might seem like an insane amount, it has to be taken in the context of the work involved and benefit to the client (500k+ pages to be optimised, advanced SEO issues involved, 1 million+ visitors per month to the site, SEO effects offsetting the costs of other advertising channels).

I think key areas that small businesses need to educate themselves on are:

• Do you need SEO in the first place? After you cost SEO services for your site, you should also be testing the water and see what difference it's going to make to your bottom line.
• How important is your website to your business? If you are relying on web sales to keep your business alive, then some form of Internet marketing strategy is essential. No point complaining about essential manufacturing component prices after the fact - if you need them to survive, then you should have factored this into your business plan.
• Are you just looking at SEO because other people are? Other people cold call, use print advertising and so on as well - doesn't mean it's appropriate for your business.
• What level of input do you need? Small agencies will usually give you direct contact with technical SEOs. Large agencies will filter your enquiries through account managers (usually with low SEO knowledge). Consultants can be varied (but you usually get to deal with them directly).
• Are you operating in a high risk / high competition market? Your 6 page debt consolidation website isn't going to do well. That market is highly competitive. More competition = more profressional website needed.
• Are you neglecting other areas of website marketing? Many SEOs will happily take your money to optimise your awful looking site. You might get good rankings, but your conversions will suck. A good looking site is a low cost and helps a great deal. You wouldn't start a traditional marketing campaign when your shop hadn't been decorated? Why have loads of customers wander in and get a bad impression? Many people WANT SEO but NEED a good site to start off with.
• Will SEO conflict with other areas of business? SEO can mean changing graphic or other design elements (eg URL structures, flash navigations, etc) - you may see conflict between your developers / agency and SEOs - are they (and you) capable of effectively managing this situation? Experience in SEO means that your SEO will be capable of making these judgement calls (newbie SEOs would just argue that everything needs to be done their way!).
• Is your business prepared for increased enquiries? The main reason I don't heavily optimise my business site is that I'm just 1 consultant and wouldn't have the resources to deal with the levels of traffic ranking for SEO related terms would bring.

A lot of the negatives that the SEO industry has is down to market factors and a lot of badly managed services and businesses. But there is also some blame on the client side - businesses who don't do their homework (on SEO and the company / consultant) and businesses who use SEO services but don't need it (and complain about the ROI) are both key issues here as well.

SEO is complicated - more akin to buying a house - you don't always go for the cheapest or the glossy sales pitch - you take your time, think about what you want, do your homework and make an informed decision.

Scott

 

England-Villages seems to have removed the comment now, but it slipped into my topic reply email notification first. There are no recognised SEO certifications - Adwords and Yahoo certification for PPC are the only things that even come close to certification.

So perhaps England-Village, you'd care to do some homework before you start publicly criticising people you don't know? God forbid I expect anyone to carry out the slightest due diligence, particularly when running along with the anti-SEO crowd, pitchfork in hand!

Gee Scott, cheers for reposting.

I deleted my remark within about 10 seconds of posting it, because I thought it came over a little abruptly my point.

What gives with reposting it from your email inbox, what are you trying to achieve with that? (Hours later I add)

Streuth.

 

[ScottB]

Just checkin' my mail and don't really take kindly to having my professional reputation taken into question when I was around to respond.

 

I think there are 5 main problems:

(1) many of them shroud what they do in secrecy

I don't reveal the particular methods I use ,not that I think other SEO's don't use similar method's or that I am anything special ,just if I told everyone what I do I might be out of a job.

(2) a lot of them are selling "I'll get lots of sites to link to you and google will love you for it" and, logically, that makes no sense at all (to someone who's not SEO-savvy).

"I don't get it, why should google love a site that gets lots of links? Especially when it's easy to create the links just because you want links?"

I have never been big on links except from none competing authority sites

and have managed some pretty fair results without having thousands of links.I believe google likes sites that are authorities and have the respectability of age.

(3) Failure to give a convincing answer to "if the google algo changes so often, how can I be sure that my SEO will still keep working?"

I must have been very lucky but most of the sites I have done have never slipped in there rankings in spite of all the apparent algo changes,so a bit baffled by that one

(4) The failure to connect costs with benefits.

well my pitch is pretty low key goes like "I think we might be able to make a few quid so shall we give it a try"

(5) The refusal to offer guarantees.

Just Can't do that although something are a pretty sure fire thing based on investigation of the opposition.

Steve I can only give some answers based on my experiences and way of approaching things see in red.

as a footnote I think SEO is a far easier thing to learn than good web site design and hats of to many of the members on here .I just thank my lucky stars that I fell into an area that can help turn all there good work into a few bob for there clients and others,

Earl