Accountant fees

[sallyhandbags]

Hi, everyone.

My accountant has been doing all my work (year-end, PAYE and quarterly VAT submission etc) for the last 8 years, which is normally £7,000 a year.

Now that everything has gone digital, she says she wants £16,000 per year to do my bookkeeping and the above.

I'm the company director and have 2 employees. My company's turnover is £200,000.

She has more or less said pay up or go somewhere else. She knows Im going to be left in a right mess because she has not explained anything to me about digital tax.

6 months ago she said I didnt have to worry and she would help me do all this. Now I'm in April and being hung off a cliff.

What should I do as I'm stressed to the max?

 

[WaveJumper]

Well, first of all don't get stressed out take a deep breath .......... Those with far more knowledge in this area I am sure will have a lot of wise words for you.

Do you process any paperwork yourself, eg do you have an online system like Xero or equivalent? Or, as you suggested above, is your accountant actually doing everything? That may then explain the high cost, though not sure why this should more than double.

MTD in my humble opinion is not making things anymore difficult,

 

[billybob99]

Sorry to hear you've been getting ripped off for several years.

I've got 15+ developers and have been using FreeAgent for a good 8+ years and it took about 5 mins to authorise it with MTD and I was off and running again.

I would try to use an online system so you can easily move to another accountant in the future.

 

[DWS]

Without knowing exactly what is involved with your bookkeeping and accounts it is hard to say but 7k a year seems an awful lot and raising that up to 16k is even worse, MTD or not.
I would suggest making appointments with some other local accountants to see what they can offer, most wont charge for the initial meeting and you may get a better idea of realistic prices.

 

[Mr D]

Speak to other accountants.

Find one you can get on with, many offer free initial meetings and you don't have to sign up to the first one you meet.
I don't know if your bill of £7k is normal, it sounds high but not knowing what hoops you are making the accountant jump through means high may be relative.

 

[sallyhandbags]

Hi

I have been doing all the book work which normally gets handed to the accountant and she checks and submits the VAT every quarter.

The last time I was talking to the accountant she told me not to get any software because she was going to do all this and all I had to do is send the invoices to her when I received them.


I will get some software organised and find a new accountant ASAP

I feel like I'm being held to randsom, I've had a week from hell searching the internet to see how to get online with digital VAT

There is so many software packages xero, quickbooks and the list goes on

Would xero be OK for a beginner ?

 

[sallyhandbags]

This was my first accountant so didn't really know any better, the fee has always been the same

 

[DWS]

Fee sounds even more extortionate if you are doing your own books.
Software depends on what type of business you have, do you need cloud based?

 

[sallyhandbags]

Not really sure what I need as I have not had any advice what so ever from my accountant, all I know is that I need software that will store all my information and calculate the VAT to send online

 

[Mr D]

There are some accountants on here if you don't need to see people face to face.

More of them probably online Monday.

 

[DWS]

Set up some meetings with other accountants, they will be able to advise on what will be the best software most suited to your business.

 

[Mr D]

Not really sure what I need as I have not had any advice what so ever from my accountant, all I know is that I need software that will store all my information and calculate the VAT to send online

There are a number of packages that will do that. I used to use QuickBooks when I did my VAT return (and growled at any interruptions for the few days every quarter) , then I started getting a bookkeeper to do the VAT return every quarter for about £250 (price varied based on time spent).
My accountant at the time would have charged roughly double that figure for VAT returns. And annual accounts, for around 60% of the size of your business, was just over £1,000.

May be worth checking out the various packages. Or wait until Monday, find a suitable accountant and get their recommendation.

 

[sallyhandbags]

I have made a list of local companies and will start to organise meetings on Monday

I really appreciate the advice, things seem much more clear

 

[justintime]

I'm assuming you do your books manually at the moment then hand them over to the accountant for checking and doing the VAT return/year-end?

£7,000 does seem steep but we don't know what it's made up of or the time involved.

I'm also guessing that because you're doing it manually that with MTD she now plans to enter all the transactions into software but, flipping heck, at £9,000 that still seems steep.

Regarding MTD you now have to enter your transactions into digital software, which can be as simple as a cashbook or spreadsheet.

Unless your books are ultra complicated, I can't see it being above £7,000 even if I was doing the bookkeeping.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Hi Everyone

My accountant has been doing all my work for the last 8 years which is normally £7000 a year

The accountant does end of year, payee and quarterly VAT submission etc

Now that everything has gone digital she says she wants £16000 per year to do my booking keeping and the above

My company turnover is 200k
I'm the company director + 2 employees

She has more or less said pay up or go somewhere else, she knows Im going to be left in a right mess because she has not explained anything to me about digital tax

6 months ago she said I didnt have to worry and she would help me do all this , now I'm in April and being hung off a cliff

Whats should I do as I'm stressed to the Max ?

It sounds to me like you need a bookkeeper and an accountant.

If an accountant is charging between £7,000 and £16,000 a year for bookkeeping they really are (or should be) doing a lot of work for you and I strongly suspect you will find a bookkeeper considerably cheaper.

I assume you don't want to deal with any bookkeeping, VAT or payroll yourself?

 

[Newchodge]

Do you have a breakdown of their charges? So payroll x, VAT y, etc?

Payroll for 3 people paid monthly would be between £100 and £300, I would suggest.

200k turnover doesn't mean much - 1 £200k transaction is cheaper to deal with than 20,000 £10 transactions! Accountants doing book-keeping is a lot more expensive than using a bookkeeper.

Does this include your personal self assesssment return?

More than doubling her charges because of digital VAT returns is nonsensical. Perhaps she has decided that you are a client she does not wish to keep. Have you had any issues?

 

[Mr D]

Do you have a breakdown of their charges? So payroll x, VAT y, etc?

Payroll for 3 people paid monthly would be between £100 and £300, I would suggest.

200k turnover doesn't mean much - 1 £200k transaction is cheaper to deal with than 20,000 £10 transactions! Accountants doing book-keeping is a lot more expensive than using a bookkeeper.

Does this include your personal self assesssment return?

More than doubling her charges because of digital VAT returns is nonsensical. Perhaps she has decided that you are a client she does not wish to keep. Have you had any issues?

So high for payroll?
Last figure I was quoted in 2016 was under £10 per person per month.

 

[Newchodge]

So high for payroll?
Last figure I was quoted in 2016 was under £10 per person per month.

That would give you £360 for 3 people.

 

[Mr D]

That would give you £360 for 3 people.

Not per month. Sorry, perhaps it was just me - reading your post like it was between £100 and £300 per month!

 

[MJ Holohan]

Sounds very expensive for a business of your size.

It might be determined by how you are setup but if you are setup right, and have a bookkeeper doing most of the work, it should be significantly cheaper than this.

 

[sallyhandbags]

Hi Everyone

Thanks for the replies

After chatting with the accountant I agreed to do all the bookkeeping and the VAT but even at that they wanted 6k to do the end of year books

I have been to see another accountant which seems to be much better and they say they can do my end of year at a much lower price, I have to go for a meeting with them this week.

Just one thing I'm looking into software so I can do all my bookwork and VAT online but cant decide between Xero and accounts portal

My business is mostly selling on amazon and ebay so need something that works well with these

 

[sallyhandbags]

Do you have a breakdown of their charges? So payroll x, VAT y, etc?

Payroll for 3 people paid monthly would be between £100 and £300, I would suggest.

200k turnover doesn't mean much - 1 £200k transaction is cheaper to deal with than 20,000 £10 transactions! Accountants doing book-keeping is a lot more expensive than using a bookkeeper.

Does this include your personal self assesssment return?

More than doubling her charges because of digital VAT returns is nonsensical. Perhaps she has decided that you are a client she does not wish to keep. Have you had any issues?

Hi

Never had any problems with the accountant, she just said she cant be bothered with the bookwork and putting my information into software.

She is still more than happy to do my other work for 6k a year, but at this stage I've already decided to move on.

 

[cts1975]

I turnover more than £200k per year and our accountant charges us less than £1800 per year with multiple transactions. They are always on hand to answer any questions or do any additional work that may be required.

'She has more or less said pay up or go somewhere else. She knows I'm going to be left in a right mess because she has not explained anything to me about digital tax.'

If you feel that your accountant can put you in a mess then you need to change accountant whatever you are paying.

 

[KAC]

Hi Everyone

Thanks for the replies

After chatting with the accountant I agreed to do all the bookkeeping and the VAT but even at that they wanted 6k to do the end of year books

I have been to see another accountant which seems to be much better and they say they can do my end of year at a much lower price, I have to go for a meeting with them this week.

Just one thing I'm looking into software so I can do all my bookwork and VAT online but cant decide between Xero and accounts portal

My business is mostly selling on amazon and ebay so need something that works well with these

Hi Sally

Normally best to find the accountant before you decide on software as your new accountant may prefer and be more au fait with one of the systems. Make sure that your new accountant is used to dealing with clients who trade on Amazon and Ebay and that they are able to assist you with automating your transactions on the software. Good luck.

 

[Jaswinder Singh]

£16k pa for a £200k online business is totally unreasonable (including the bookkeeping), and £6k is still extremely heavy. I would think you can find a good, reliable accountant who will do all your vat returns, year end and tax returns for between £1200 and £2k pa.