Windows XP or Vista?

[Cornish Steve]

I'm about to replace my laptop. For the model I plan to purchase, I have the option of requesting either Windows XP Professional or Windows Vista Home. Either way, I shall be purchasing 2GB of memory; I've heard that the amount of memory consumed by Vista is astronomical.

Which option would you recommend and why? Thanks in advance for your guidance.

 

[ExpandOnline]

I would be interested in hearing what other think on this, but personnaly I would stick with XP for the moment - Vista is still quite new and driver and software support is still limited.

Peter

 

[computerfaq]

I'm using Vista Business on my Laptop, and am loving it. It's running a bit slow with some of my applications, but I've only got 1GB of RAM. All the usual office stuff loads quite quickly.

There are some programs that arn't totally compatible yet, but I'm yet to find one that doesn't have a patch released to resolve it.

 

[Subbynet]

Vista Home Basic or Home Premium?

I'd choose good old XP Pro myself. The range of applications for Vista while growing still does not reach that of XP. Still compatibility issues to contend with.

Also, Drivers are still a concern - again its getting better.

Vista Home Basic apart from a GUI change doesn't really offer anything more - not even the fancy interface which sets Vista apart.

Vista Home Premium is a bit better - has Aero if you don't mind using resources for a few seconds of "glitzy oh look at that moments".

XP Pro has a few things tailored to the business network which is left out of the Vista Home versions.

Vista SP1 isn't far off... I'd wait until then for upgrading.

 

[computerfaq]

I'm not going to shamlessly promote Vista, if I had a choice i'd probally go back to XP Pro, but unfortunately Vista is becoming more and more standard these days.

 

[cjd]

Drivers for a new laptop obviously isn't a problem but check printers and other networked devices. (I can't use Vista because my network storage device still doesn't have a driver for example).

With 2gb RAM Vista will work fine so it doesn't really matter how much it uses.

Some common software doesn't yet work (or didn't 4 months ago when I looked - Nero is one, MTR is another.)

As stated - it matters which version you are offered.

Apart from the above, most people I know that have it say it's pretty good.

XP Pro is obviously the safest option for now - but it's also a bit boring ;-)

 

[computerfaq]

Nero's got an update out now, not sure what MTR is so can't comment on that!

Almost everything else seems to be working. If the device is under a year old then typically there will be drivers for vista now.

 

[brownie]

I'll let everyone else debug Vista for me first.

 

[jopassmore]

I had the same dilema recently and opted for Vista. I only have 1GB of RAM but I haven't had any problems so far. I use it a lot as I am a web designer and it is coping fine with everything I want to do.

The only problem I did have was getting it to 'talk' to my XP desktop machine via a wireless router, but that is all sorted now too.

I decided to do it in the end as I have a copy of XP and was happy to go backwards if necessary. However if I had gone for XP, I would have had to buy Vista at a later point - so decision made!

 

Steve

Have a read at the article about Vista I have on my homepage.

You are definitely correct in looking for 2Gb RAM too.

My recommendations are to avoid Home Basic - it is Vista, but has none of the nicest features the other versions have (Aero, etc). Most of the main manufacturers have caught up a little and most drivers are now available - took them a while though.

I would also be wary of buying into the whole Vista thing yet - as someone said before SP1 shouldn't be too far off - and it will fix a lot of the problems.

It is hard to go past XP Pro at the moment.

If you want any specific advice, don't hesitate to get in touch.

Mark

 

[simonswords]

If you were buying a PC I'd say Vista every time. I use Vista at work on my main PC (4 Gb of RAM, and 2.6 Ghz Dual Processors) and it's an absolute dream. Beautiful interface and I'd like nothing more than to not have to see XP ever again.

However with a laptop it's slightly different. The memory consumed by Vista is not insignificant but where it gets really interesting is when you consider the graphics power that Vista requires for its glass "Aero" effect. Laptops rendering the Vista interface suffer from prolonged periods of running at high temperatures due to the processing power required, which I understand from people at Microsoft can cause reliability issues in the long run.

 

You are not wrong there - I think that a load of the 'new' laptops have heating problems and this will begin to surface more in the near future.

Laptops are becoming less and less upgradeable due to the heat problem - and becoming less of an actual 'laptop' anymore. We have been recommending that anyone who buys a 'laptop' ensures they sit it on top of a tray or suchlike, rather than straight onto their lap. The air vents, etc can very easily be covered up if you don't put the lappie onto something solid.

The old notion that laptops cut their processing power to save battery, etc is not going to ring so true for Vista users - the processor will have to work more than ever now.

I am also a bit disappointed in some of the big PC retailers for their attitude in shipping Vista out all over the show and not being upfront to buyers. The spec's they are running Vista on are an embarrassment and I am getting fed up supporting something which just is not up to the job.

 

[SandUK]

BRought my new laptop back in March with Vista very new on the release front. My old one had XP Home on it, and my work PC is XP Pro.

The Vista needed some encouragement to run my peripherals, but, I use it in depth, designing web pages, making graphics, videos and logging into a WAN for accounting, finance and business packages. I also run a TV card (one of those it said "won't run on Vista" ... and it's great).

Would I go back to XP? Nope. Because, just in my own humble opinion, my Vista machine may take some encouragement to speak to my existing devices, but once they're in, they run better than they ever did. And I haven't come across any of my devices that won't work. Maybe I've just been lucky, but there we are.

THe machine I purchased was a Dell Inspiron 6400. It only has 1Gb ram, but it doesn't have problems ... an upgrade may be on the horizon, just so I can run more programs at once. I haven't had any problems though. It's a dual core chip too, and I don't have any trouble with heat, and (just like now) it's on my lap most of the time. Maybe some are worse than others?

 

been upgrading since w95 and every ones been a pain ,sticking with XP pro for now.

Earl

 

[asonda]

Vista,

This OS, has undoubtedly caused the biggest stir. Because of Vista, Apple, have sold twice as many MACS this year, as they did this time last year! Now there's food for thought.

I'd recommend Vista, but with a couple of caveats. Vista, NEEDS resources, 2GB of ram is fine, and will do the trick nicely.

What you now need to look at is what Graphics Chip the Laptop Has....(hard to explain this one). Basically, look for one that has either ATi, or Nvidia Graphics Chipsets. Motherboard Manufacturers Graphics, I.E Sis, Via etc....not enough power behind it.

I'd say go for ATi, they seem to have been the most Vista Ready since the get go. However, thats down to personal preference, so is the processor.

I'd say, look for a laptop, that has, 2GB of Ram, A Dual Core Processor (AMD or Intel) then the "Branded" Graphics System, Ati or Nvidia. If you get a laptop with an AMD Dual Core, Get the ATi Graphics, if you get an Intel Model, go for the Nvidia Graphics... AMD own ATi now, They are the best optimised integrated systems at the moment! and Vista Home Premium (Not Basic)

If you get XP Pro, then really, as long as you have a tleast 1gb or ram for all your programs, your laughing...

however, Vista is becoming more standard now, as there's only a few things that may not work with it, with a laptop, all your drivers for the laptop will work...SP1 is supposed to be coming out November time only 3 months away.....which is when everybody will start buying it...if you buy XP Pro Now....if you decided you want Vista Later on....thats more money out of your pocket.

Cheers

 

[Games4Business]

Vista ...Without lots of memory, disk activity increases significantly, probably disk cache! So be prepared to get 1gb+ of memory.

 

[Cornish Steve]

Hmmm. I'm just as unsure as I was earlier today!

On the one hand, most of what I use my laptop for is boring. I don't use fancy graphics, and I don't play games. Hence, I don't really see the need for Vista - especially since it consumes so many resources. (A friend told me this morning that, even when it's idle, it consumes 700MB of memory.)

On the other hand, Vista is the way of the future. Over time, more and more applications will run on Vista, and XP will be a relic of the past. I don't want to be welded to a relic.

Three months ago, the choice would probably have been XP Pro. Three months from now, the SP1 will be out for Vista and that would be my choice. Right now, it's rather like tossing a coin. My instinct tells me to go for XP Pro, but I may sleep on it for a day or two.

Many thanks, everyone, for your thoughts on this matter.

 

[Games4Business]

I believe MS stop support for Win XP from December, but worth looking at their website to clarify this. It will take a while for XP to vanish, but having said that I know a few people that use Win 95 still and it flys on the top of the range machines.

 

[asonda]

I'm sure XP is losing it's support from January onwards..Which is Stupid! Steve Ballmer (Bills Replacement) is really cocking things up!

Steve, I'd say, go for a decent Vista Laptop, You'll only have to wait a couple of months for SP1. You'll be bang up to date!

 

[Games4Business]

It's probably just like the processor/motherboard manufacturers who develop things so far in advance, they do not release the good stuff straight away, for fears of closing down their business and future market. Timed release of new processors and software keep the sales growing, forcing you to upgrade when support for the older generation of processors/software stops. Now that BGates has stepped down from MS, how long will MS continue to be the one of the leaders in operating systems, or will they move into another area, making room for another competitor to take the lead.

 

[asonda]

Mac, have this year, sold double what they had this time last year. And many sources say it has something to do with Vista and Microsoft.

Microsoft, have had their time. More and More people are starting to see that all they want is money. They don't care about their customers one bit.

windows XP, Cutting support in January...why?

They made the Xbox consoles, to get in on the money....Soon as the Xbox 360 came out, they stopped making original Xbox Games...left them out in the cold..

They buy companies just to then put them under for their own game.

Anyone rememeber Zune?? Microsofts answer to the Ipod and Itunes...

They're a horrid company and I can't wait until everybody starts wanting Linux. They deserve their name as "The Evil Empire"

 

[Games4Business]

I must admit, I use StarOffice as instead Microsoft Office, on Windows, which is alot cheaper than paying for MS office pro. Combined with the free MS office viewer, I have the best of both worlds. When you first start out in business you are looking to save where you can, now it's not so much of an issue, but counting the pennies early on does help. It's a shame that MS do not provide something for new business startups like they did for Teachers/Students. If you've been in business for less than a year, get it for half price, or less than (x) number of employees. I'm sure business sales would increase considerably. Yes, they have their Small Business editions, but still a tad pricey for startups. Running linux servers instead of Windows, what a saving there!

 

[Subbynet]

XP Pro isn't going anywhere... Mainsteam Support doesn't end until 2009 and then Extended Support for another 5 years (2014).

XP could be Microsoft's longest serving Operating System ever.

Vista SP1 should be out before Christmas (Nov/Dec), and XP SP3 in 2008 (Feb/Mar).

By that time XP will be a very solid and dependable system, I believe you'll find it in common business usage until 2013.

And then in 2012 or 2013 the next Windows is to be released - hopefully with the touted micro-kernel arch - and it will be ONLY 64bit.

So if any of you guys still have 32bit machines looks like you'll be running Linux.

 

[Cornish Steve]

The version of Vista would be Home Premium. Also, I can pay about UKP25 extra to get NVIDIA Quadro graphics (as someone suggested). Purchasing the latest MS Office is another UKP90, but I suspect this would be better than trying to run my old Windows 2000 software on Vista.

Let me ask a question about SP1 for Vista. As I understand it, this will solve many of the problems in the current version of Vista. Is the SP1 software available free of charge or must users pay for it?

Today, at home, we have a Linksys 2.4 GHz 54Mbps Wireless-G router. Will this work OK with Vista?

What about battery? I can spend another UKP12 and get a 9-cell battery rather than the regular 6-cell. I'm rather tempted by that.

 

[Games4Business]

Depends if Vista supports your linksys, or Linksys has drivers to support Vista

When I upgraded to Vista (bought a new machine), my Printer/Scanner/copier (lexmark) was not supported, and Lexmark had no vista drivers for it!

I believe all patches/services packs are free as part of the support.. I'm sure there would be uproar if people had to pay for bug fixes, unless there was something spectacularly new in the SP to warrant a price tag.

The version of Vista is Home Premium. Also, I can pay about UKP25 extra to get NVIDIA Quadro graphics (as someone suggested). Purchasing the latest MS Office is another UKP90, but I suspect this would be better than trying to run my old Windows 2000 software on Vista. I'm concerned that XP Pro may not be supported in the near future.

Let me ask a question about SP1 for Vista. As I understand it, this will solve many of the problems in the current version of Vista. Is the SP1 software available free of charge or must users pay for it?

Today, at home, we have a Linksys 2.4 GHz 54Mbps Wireless-G router. Will this work OK with Vista?

 

[asonda]

These Days, if you have some technical know how, you can use things that are not Microsoft! If you need to run windows apps on Linux, you have the option of installing WINE, which as I've tested it, runs MS Office and all the programs I need.

Configuring it would be a tad difficult if you haven't for the aptitude.

If Linux came, with all the programs etc, in the equivalent .exe files. everybody would be using it. It's just a matter of time now!

My Network clients, ALL use OpenOffice.

I wouldn't mind Microsoft but they just don't look after their customers. They're starting to cut off support too early, look at how long Bill Gates kept 98 in support, Years after they stopped supplying it. Steve Ballmer is a Kn**.

However, the general consumer, believe what Microsoft Say and are too scared to take other routes. Sheep, springs to mind as well.

If only a few people could bring Linux, or Mac awareness up a notch...

 

[asonda]

Service Packs are completely free upgrades.

Linksys, you need to check with them, have a look at their website.

Office 2007, is a good package of programs. Don't underestimate OpenOffice.

Yep glad you've taken my advice about a decent graphics chip! it is essential if you want a smooth, quick and responsive vista Aero experience.

 

[Games4Business]

Remote services with security may be the way forward, everything on the internet. You do not need high spec machines then as the processing power is at the service provider level. You can then access office apps remotely no matter where you are. No expensive licences either, just maybe a subscription.

 

[asonda]

Remote services with security may be the way forward, everything on the internet. You do not need high spec machines then as the processing power is at the service provider level. You can then access office apps remotely no matter where you are. No expensive licences either, just maybe a subscription.

The Future, Many companies are talking about this....Microsoft for one.

 

[Subbynet]

Remote services with security may be the way forward, everything on the internet. You do not need high spec machines then as the processing power is at the service provider level. You can then access office apps remotely no matter where you are. No expensive licences either, just maybe a subscription.

Apart from when your connection is dead and you wished those apps were local.

SaaS is certainly a direction Microsoft is moving in, but its not suitable for many tasks.

 

[asonda]

Apart from when your connection is dead and you wished those apps were local.

SaaS is certainly a direction Microsoft is moving in, but its not suitable for many tasks.

Yep that's true. Plus it only exasperates the situation when BT, and Broadband providers see a future of 1GB internet connections for home users etc...

Not something I'd want to be involved in...

I like change, but for the fear of my business, I don't like the way things are currently evolving.

 

[Games4Business]

This is true.

Give it a good couple of years and 3G, or 4G wireless connections will be more reliable, so you will not need wires. Just more mobile masts!

Apart from when your connection is dead and you wished those apps were local.

SaaS is certainly a direction Microsoft is moving in, but its not suitable for many tasks.

 

[Games4Business]

It will encourage more remote working, which means businesses do not need to lease bigger offices, pay people less for working at home (which may be fine, no travel expenses). There will be many pro's and cons.

The Future, Many companies are talking about this....Microsoft for one.

 

[Subbynet]

I believe it will be a flash in the pan... Local Apps are here to stay. Intel and AMD arn't sticking that stonking big V8 of a processor in your PC to use 10% of it.

And moving further - Business just won't accept it, could you imagine the government departments allowing sensitive data to leave the network - no chance... Same for big companies in Defence and Medical area's... Think of media companie in Graphic and Video design which need local apps / lots of power.

Its the wet dream of MS and the likes for us to pay via SaaS but its about as likely as everyone giving up their cars and using taxi's - plus you won't like the smelly driver because he won't go your route! But you might take the odd trip!

 

[Games4Business]

Its only the data inputters and remote workers that only use office apps that will really benefit from this technology.

1 office web cam at home, with IP telephone over a secure VPN connection and remote desktop for collaboration, 1 office PC at home or own PC (security implications) weighing the costs of a desk, pc, telephone, office space. Technology of this nature is already here - stepping it up a notch, well it would need to be pretty impressive to make it worth while.

Anyway off now.. good discussion.

I believe it will be a flash in the pan... Local Apps are here to stay. Intel and AMD arn't sticking that stonking big V8 of a processor in your PC to use 10% of it.

And moving further - Business just won't accept it, could you imagine the government departments allowing sensitive data to leave the network - no chance... Same for big companies in Defence and Medical area's... Think of media companie in Graphic and Video design which need local apps / lots of power.

Its the wet dream of MS and the likes for us to pay via SaaS but its about as likely as everyone giving up their cars and using taxi's - plus you won't like the smelly driver because he won't go your route! But you might take the odd trip!

 

[asonda]

I wouldn't want any of my information anywhere else. I like it on my computer.

I'm buying a stonking AMD Quad Core Processor when they finally release it, to run Vista Ultimate on a sweet water cooled pc I'm building myself.

Are we agreed, Microsoft need pegging down a notch or two?

 

[brownie]

I believe it will be a flash in the pan... Local Apps are here to stay. Intel and AMD arn't sticking that stonking big V8 of a processor in your PC to use 10% of it.

And moving further - Business just won't accept it, could you imagine the government departments allowing sensitive data to leave the network - no chance... Same for big companies in Defence and Medical area's

Spot on, look at how well thin clients were received.

 

[Subbynet]

Spot on, look at how well thin clients were received.

I don't know what you mean by that comment - no one was talking about Thin Clients but SaaS. :|

 

[confused]

Ram usage, much more on vista, no denying that, however it is quite common for people to thing just because they have a lot of ram, it makes the pc "better" . Ram is far from the deciding factor, and all to often I hear "I have a such and such cpu, and so many gigs of ram" then when looked at closer, theres a £20 jetway motherboard at the heart of it all - thats a bit like putting a ford focus engine into a ferrari - all well and good having good bits, but ALL the bits need to be good, theres also the speed of the memory which is very very significant. Off the shelf pc's from the majority of the larger retail shops are nothing more than a sheep with wolfs clothing - yes that is the right way around! all marketing and nothing more.
When it comes to a laptop, you are of course more limited, and unless you NEED your pc to be portable, then seriously consider a custom built desktop machine instead. BTW whoever mentioned the heat issue, laptops have been for some time reffered to as notebooks - for this very reason.
Back to the original question, if you are buying a lappy, and cannot think of a reason to want vista (I cant at the moment) then I would stick with xp pro. A few years ago, this very same debate was going on all over the place - but with win2k pro against xp. At that time xp was new, had many issues and required a higher spec pc to run (totally ignoring the microsoft "minimum specs - they have always been out). XP is now pretty stable, and has been really since SP1 - although SP2 resolved a lot of issues, it also caused quite a few problems initially. Vista has issues, but is pretty much stable, the main problems are driver support and software compatability as already mentioned. Many have asked me shall they upgrade, the answer is always no, thats no to say things wont change in the future, they might or might not. My advice right now would be to stay with XP - especially if you plan to use it for business.

 

[brownie]

I don't know what you mean by that comment - no one was talking about Thin Clients but SaaS. :|

SaaS is generally understood to be deployed via a web API, just a development on from the old Application Service Provider. The architecture is bascially a centralised app with only a browser/lightweight app required at the client end to support it, hence a thin client model.