Bitcoin - to invest or not?

[ukitbusiness12]

I think it will go quite a bit higher yet, I haven't invested myself as don't have cash I can afford to lose, but at the end of the day it's a finite resource, so long as there is demand then prices will rise.

 

[Mark T Jones]

I think it will go quite a bit higher yet, I haven't invested myself as don't have cash I can afford to lose, but at the end of the day it's a finite resource, so long as there is demand then prices will rise.

The point is valid. The key point being why will demand continue?

The ‘real’ value of bitcoin is zero- that’s a fact, not an opinion. Someone will always pay for tulips, even if it’s a fraction of yesterday’s price. Bitcoin on the other hand is wholly conceptual

Currently it’s perceived value lies 95% in investment potential- a market which is bottom fed by naive investors and some frankly dodgy MLM / pyramid schemes. When this falters who will want to invest

The other 5% is bitcoin as currency, which ironically is untenable with its current volatile value. The marketing here relies mostly on gimmicks like mining and scarcity - as you’ Said scarcity only works if there is demand

If ****** is the future, why will bitcoin be the winning tech?

 

[The Byre]

As a currency, the winning tech is the Dollar, followed by the Euro. As a currency, the Bitcoin is totally useless.

The ‘real’ value of bitcoin is zero- that’s a fact, not an opinion. Someone will always pay for tulips, even if it’s a fraction of yesterday’s price. Bitcoin on the other hand is wholly conceptual.

All currencies are 'conceptual', even if they are based on something of real practical value and/or use, such as gold.

Everything that can be bought or sold is a currency of a sort. The differences arise only in their liquidity. Houses are not very liquid, i.e. they take time to turn into other things of similar value, such as money or food. But a true currency has universal acceptance. You can't take the deeds to your house, or a pound of butter, to the shops and hope to exchange them easily.

We must never forget that if a house was valued at £100,000 in 1997 and is valued today at £500,000, it is still the same house. The difference is only the exchange rate. In 20 years, the 'house-value' of a pound has fallen by four-fifths. The house is still the same house. It is the pound that has changed.

In 1997, butter cost 59p at Aldi and today it costs 149p, so the 'butter-value' of a pound has fallen by half as much as the 'house-value'.

But the Bitcoin is not a true currency (******- or otherwise!) Aldi does not take Bitcoins. It is at best, a wacky speculation, every bit as substantial or insubstantial as betting on the gee-gees.

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

Aldi does not take Bitcoins

This isn’t an extremely salient point, although the key decider will be when HMRC take them as payment. That’s what makes a currency proper.
Bitcoin is a commodity, which doesn’t have any intrinsic value

 

[Hahnbeck]

Any uk business giving investment advice falls under the FCA, ****** or not.

And when the FCA (or more likely SEC) starts intervening against the more outlandish ICOs, it will have a sigificant impact on market sentiment for all cryptocurrencies. This is not to say that they are all doomed to fail. But those who are long on Bitcoin (or ____coin) should prepare for more volatility at least.
Also before investing, remember that (1) it isn't "frictionless" - there are significant transaction costs and (2) selling quickly is not easy. The latter point doesn't matter when the price is going up. But when the price is going down...

 

[Chris34]

Lol. Remind me never to take investment advice from you

That's a shame, if you had followed my advice you would have made a 50% return on Bitcoin and Ethereum as they both stand today.

 

[Mark T Jones]

That's a shame, if you had followed my advice you would have made a 50% return on Bitcoin and Ethereum as they both stand today.

True. Then again there are many others who apparently would have made me 4,000%

I haven't cried about missing out on that either

 

[Hahnbeck]

That's a shame, if you had followed my advice you would have made a 50% return on Bitcoin and Ethereum as they both stand today.

Bitcoin price on Friday was $14,429.43. Price today is $14,750.50. Call me old fashioned but I would call that a 2.2% return, not a 50% return.
(And that is before deducting transaction fees)

 

[MBE2017]

That's a shame, if you had followed my advice you would have made a 50% return on Bitcoin and Ethereum as they both stand today.

Different exchanges have different values, but coindesk has Bitcoin down 0.9% from 29/12/17 to today. Even with variations in time of day or exchanges, 50% claimed gains is too crazy even for Bitcoin.

 

[GlennMiddleton]

No, no and no again.

 

[Mr D]

Bubbles burst. Eventually.
Or they are not bubbles.

And there are always investors who lose out. Such things have happened many times before.

Give it time, governments will likely treat ****** commodities like other volatile commodities. Going so far as accepting them to pay tax may be a push at the moment, in decades to come maybe. Societies change, governments change.

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

Going so far as accepting them to pay tax may be a push at the moment, in decades to come maybe

Can’t see why they would. We’ve got a perfectly good currency already - would there be any reason to be a dual currency economy? It’s a bit like on dragons den when mugs show up with something extremely clever and interesting, but no one invests because they say “no one will pay for this because you have solved a problem that’s not a problem”

 

[wesdav]

Lots of returns being made at way over 50%,more like 500% at times. It is all about the alt coins now. Very high risk but high rewards possible. It is an unregulated market so lots of foul play at work such as pump and dump schemes.

 

[Chris34]

Bitcoin price on Friday was $14,429.43. Price today is $14,750.50. Call me old fashioned but I would call that a 2.2% return, not a 50% return.
(And that is before deducting transaction fees)

I was referring to quotes that I've made earlier in the thread. Look back to December 16th. Also look at the other Bitcoin thread on timeout.

Not looking for an argument but I'm not a liar, just stating the facts.


Chris.

 

[LanaW]

They are not bubbles, but Bitcoin isn't worth investments at the time. It's better to analyze and buy some potentially growing cryptocurrency.

 

[Change18]

I've invested a little money in Bitcoin, and a little less in Ethereum and even less in litecoin. Doubled my money so far from investing in October. It's long term for me, I'm interested in and think the new blockchain technology has legs. Whether one of these currencies will lead the game I'm not sure but it's money I'm prepared to lose and wanted to invest now if I ever was going to.

I'm someone who downloaded the Bitcoin blockchain back in 2010 because I was interested and again in 2014. Can't remember much, did I buy, did I mine back in '10? Searched a few hard drives a few weeks ago and found a... wallet.dat file!

I was excited, even if I had just a few Bitcoins it would have made my Christmas. Unfortunately it was empty.

I do remember thinking back in 2010, imagine if 1 bitcoin equals £1 one day. With that mindset I was probably thinking about buying a decent amount. Even 1000. But for one reason or another I don't think I did...

 

[MBE2017]

Kodak announced they are to start their own ****** currency for photographers, their share value literally doubled on the spot. Crazy times.

 

[Mr D]

Kodak announced they are to start their own ****** currency for photographers, their share value literally doubled on the spot. Crazy times.

There are at least 3 or 4 photographers who have heard of Kodak. Perhaps catering to those.

 

[Domdawson]

****** is a fantastic investment opportunity.

I work with hedge funds currently trading ****** and have made a few clients even more wealthy than they all ready were.

Don't listen to those who missed out and only cast negatives, do your research, more and more big companies are going down the ****** route.

 

[Mr D]

****** is a fantastic investment opportunity.

I work with hedge funds currently trading ****** and have made a few clients even more wealthy than they all ready were.

Don't listen to those who missed out and only cast negatives, do your research, more and more big companies are going down the ****** route.

And that post could have been posted in the late 1920s if they had been using forums back then.
History can repeat itself even so far as similar words being written.

 

[Clearaccy]

People are investing in something they don't understand.

Bitcoin wasn't created as an investment opportunity, it was created for the blockchain technology. I bet at least half the new investors don't understand what it actually is.

I first started trading ******-currencies in May-2016. Not once have I left money in bitcoin itself. I have been trading with altcoins which are more developed and work much smoother in the wider world. There are then other coins which serve a purpose, for example the "factoring" ****** which can help businesses factor invoices. By trading with altcoins I have increased my initial investment by 15x.

To transfer bitcoin it is now costing over £20 & usually takes a couple of hours, sometimes even days. Why would this be used as a currency? It wont if these issues carry on.
Other altcoins can transfer money within seconds/minutes and cost a fraction of a penny.

www.coinmarketcap.com is a list of ******-currencies and market values. Bitcoin is just number 1, don't be surprised when another coin passes it.

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

Bitcoin drops below $10,000, 50% loss in one month....

Has the bubble burst?

 

[Clearaccy]

Bitcoin drops below $10,000, 50% loss in one month....

Has the bubble burst?

People have been saying bitcoin is a bubble since 100$. It last saw 10,000$ at the beginning of December, it definitely hasn't burst.

If countries don't ban bitcoin then it will soon reach a new all time high.

 

[Honey Blinds]

I heard it is down 15 percent today, the bubble may have burst in the sense that BC is not a currency anymore, its a tradable commodity, Therefor missing its intended original use. without a viable use how long can it be considered an actual currency.

 

[Mark T Jones]

It's worth pointing out that 'burst' is a slightly misleading term - historically the burst actually takes 12 months to really happen.

My personal view is that the Bitcoin bandwagon is running out of steam, particularly with the collapse of one of the biggest scam MLMs, USI

I wonder if the whole ****** thing is losing its gloss - ultimately it has no value, so will fall.

 

[dan_12106]

This bit coin is crazy, only a few years ago you could get one for the than £1!

 

[Mark T Jones]

This bit coin is crazy, only a few years ago you could get one for the than £1!

Yip.

Get rich quick tip - find a global market that's bottom-fed by fools

 

[MBE2017]

It's worth pointing out that 'burst' is a slightly misleading term - historically the burst actually takes 12 months to really happen.

My personal view is that the Bitcoin bandwagon is running out of steam, particularly with the collapse of one of the biggest scam MLMs, USI

I wonder if the whole ****** thing is losing its gloss - ultimately it has no value, so will fall.

Warned a guy I know re USI six weeks ago, he was actively promoting it up to xmas, now he is on another. Lost most of his money I reckon, but he is a trier.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Warned a guy I know re USI six weeks ago, he was actively promoting it up to xmas, now he is on another. Lost most of his money I reckon, but he is a trier.

Sadly these naive triers end up being con men

 

[MBE2017]

Sadly these naive triers end up being con men

Oh he's definitely that, he would sell his granny for a penny lol. He has been trying different MLM's for over thirty years, still never made any money.

 

[NCapital]

I've seen a lot of comments online about how Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are "only worth something because people consider tham as having value". Call it a naive question - but isn't that how *any* currency works?

I mean, if you take a five pound note, for example. It's simply a bit of (essentially worthless) polymer that represents a fixed value, and because everyone places the same value on that bit of polymer, it can be exchanged for goods and services. If everyone understands what that five pound note is "worth", then everyone can agree on what it can be exchanged for.

I'm obviously missing something about how currencies, "worth", and "value" work, but I've no idea what.

 

[Jeff Nev]

To the best of my understanding, Bitcoin is unlike physical currencies because it offers enormous consumer protection by nature. Therefore it is already more valuable (philosophically speaking) than currency to begin with. I personally wouldn't invest at this stage, the market is incredibly volatile and I feel the majority of new investors have no interest in the success of the currency - unless they make a quick buck.

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

can be exchanged for goods and services

This is the key. Representative value from goods and services exchangeable. Originally derived its value from the gold standard, but now is a fiat currency.
Bitcoin isn’t exchangeable for goods and services, it is only tradable as a commodity. Commodities get their value through scarcity and practical applications (gold is rare-ish, and can make desirable jewellery). Bitcoin has the scarcity thing down, but no practical applicability. What it misses in application though, it makes up for in hype.

 

[MBE2017]

Rough ride for people with Bitcoin atm, down approx 30% last week in value, 50% over the last month and a half, Bitcoin is now worth under £6k per coin.

 

[LiveNetworks Ltd]

I agree with Gordon here, you may as well have been investing in dutch tulip bulbs.

Bitcoin only served to grease the underground markets to allow trade in 'dubious' goods to take place without being traceable.

The list of where you can spend bitcoin is dire.

The hype is being driven by those who seek to profit from an 'investment opportunity' The only demand for the currency is from those who believe they are investing in something with value.

With over 1300 ****** currencies available to buy that must tell you something about the 'market' being made.

If course if you still want to invest in the ****** Currency market, I can let you have my 'get rich qucik' guide to the process for only 1 $cam coin, which I created 30 minutes ago and which you can now buy for only US$10 per $cam coin. My single core tablet will probably only mine about 100,000 before the battery runs flat so get in quick!

 

[Mark T Jones]

I

If course if you still want to invest in the ****** Currency market, I can let you have my 'get rich qucik' guide to the process for only 1 $cam coin, which I created 30 minutes ago and which you can now buy for only US$10 per $cam coin. !

Please can I have 5,000 of these. The price is going to rocket.

Richard Branson is interested.

 

[deanpunchard]

The hype is being driven by those who seek to profit from an 'investment opportunity' The only demand for the currency is from those who believe they are investing in something with value.

And that's where I had to really question investing. Too many powerful, rich folk, with a lot invested in Bitcoin, can easily produce "content" (you tube videos, buying guides, fake forecasts, etc) in hope of driving the price up further. However I believe we've reach a limit of willing investors, December 2017 the price went crazy, which I believe was from fear of missing out. I too had these thoughts, but stepped back, when I noticed a trend of people buying Bitcoins on credit cards! Alarm bells rang in my head.
Lloyd's Banking Group have also now stopped people buying Bitcoin, and other coins, on credit, so that shows just how common place it's become. I dread to think how much people have lost on money they couldn't afford!

 

[Mark T Jones]

, when I noticed a trend of people buying Bitcoins on credit cards! Alarm bells rang in my head.
!

Wow! speculative investing on credit card - that really is scraping the barrel of naive investment!

 

[The Byre]

Wow! speculative investing on credit card - that really is scraping the barrel of naive investment!

Knuckle-dragging stupidity would be my take on that one!

The present Bitcoin mania and other ******-currency nonsense may indeed remind us of the Dutch tulip madness of the 17th Century, but that madness was based upon the first intersection of selective breeding and growing international trade.

Neither selective breeding, nor international trade have gone away. They were here to stay. The madness went away of course - as will Bitcoin madness.

But the two technologies that created that madness are here to stay. Internet trading and blockchain technology are here to stay. Tulips are here to stay - indeed, I believe we have a few in our garden, though of course they are almost without any monetary value.

What we shall use blockchain tech for, remains to be seen. When the madness subsides, Bitcoins will go back to whatever they cost when they were launched, which was, I believe, a Dime.

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

Please can I have 5,000 of these. The price is going to rocket.

Richard Branson is interested.

I hear that Wall Street traders are "fuming" about the $cam coin millionaires as well.