What is Wrong with Being a Tax Haven?

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Carl "Excel-Expert" Nixon

This is probably a dumb question as I know nothing about this area, but what is wrong with being a tax haven if it attracts business to the country?

Corbyn says he plans to ensure this wont happen. Is this because he wants better equality of taxes (which is fair enough and valid) or is there another economic reason behind his reasoning?
 
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Newchodge

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    Being a tax haven can reduce state income by receiving less corporation tax from those (apparently few) companies that already pay their fair share, thereby putting pressure on the population to pay more tax. Or, it can increase state income by encouraging businesses here who will employ more staff, thereby putting more money into the economy and allowing the number of people paying tax to increase and not have to pay more individually.

    Without doing the calculations, which will be based on guesswork, I would assume that the first scenario is more likely.
     
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    Being a tax haven does not benefit the majority, as there is no trickle down effect - that is a well known economic fallacy. Overall economic improvement is caused by the elimination of poverty - i.e. a 'trickle-up' effect.

    Becoming a tax haven causes an even greater difference between rich and poor and the UK already has the highest difference in Europe and one of the highest on Planet Earth. In fact, it is one of our largest economic problems - you can't sell a poor man a new car!

    If you want to sell that poor man a new car (even on the never-never) then he has to be able to pay for it - and that means he has to have a decent job and a beneficial infrastructure, such as cheaper trains, better roads, healthcare without waiting lists, clean air and good schools for everybody.
     
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    Carl "Excel-Expert" Nixon

    But couldnt conditions be put on it? For example, shift your production to the UK and we will undercut your current tax levels by a couple of percent? Still generating tax and moving jobs here.

    Corbyn keeps saying "cut-price" tax haven, which to me suggests he is okay with an element of tax haven-ness going on, he just does not want the extreme version of a tax-haven. (If I'm reading his comments right - I find him to be very slippery and non-committal in his comments at the best of times)
     
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    webgeek

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    Trump's doing it in USA (going from 30 or 35% to 15 or 20) to encourage businesses to HQ there rather than elsewhere, because jobs in country at a 20% rate are better than none at a 30% rate.

    Tax havens are only bad if you're trying to pay less than the maximum tax by sheltering your income in a place elsewhere. In the UK, it's like people believe you should pay the most tax possible, while in the USA there's a duty to pay the least allowable by law.

    I'm sure Learned Hand has some quotes on this besides, "Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes."
     
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    Newchodge

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    Trump's doing it in USA (going from 30 or 35% to 15 or 20) to encourage businesses to HQ there rather than elsewhere, because jobs in country at a 20% rate are better than none at a 30% rate.

    Tax havens are only bad if you're trying to pay less than the maximum tax by sheltering your income in a place elsewhere. In the UK, it's like people believe you should pay the most tax possible, while in the USA there's a duty to pay the least allowable by law.

    I'm sure Learned Hand has some quotes on this besides, "Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes."

    Moving an HQ to a different country, while leaving the jobs where they are does not bring jobs. How many jobs has Boots taken to Switzerland?
     
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    Scott-Copywriter

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    This is probably a dumb question as I know nothing about this area, but what is wrong with being a tax haven if it attracts business to the country?

    Corbyn says he plans to ensure this wont happen. Is this because he wants better equality of taxes (which is fair enough and valid) or is there another economic reason behind his reasoning?

    Tax havens do not necessarily result in the ordinary citizen paying more tax to fill the gap providing that the incentive of the lower tax attracts more companies and taxpayers to make up the shortfall.

    After all, 20% of £1,000 and 10% of £2,000 are the same.

    However, the numbers have to add up. The problem the UK has is that it wants to reduce tax and regulation to attract more companies and investment, but it wants to tighten the rules on immigration at the same time. These are incompatible. More favourable tax is far less effective if it's more difficult to move workers here.

    Such moves do tend to create more jobs for British workers, but most companies intending to shift operations will at least want to move some workers here - usually managers or directors with vast experience within the company who are needed to ensure a seamless transfer.

    The truth is, being more tax competitive can and does work, within reason. If done correctly, it can increase (or at least maintain) tax revenue, create more jobs, and even increase wages if labour demand outstrips supply.

    But the problem is the public perception amongst voters. There's already a hugely negative opinion of big business because people feel as though they get away with paying little whilst those earning barely enough to scrape by pay a lot more as a percentage of what they earn.

    A recent survey amongst business owners actually found that most of them don't want corporate tax to go down too much, mainly because it erodes consumer trust and fuels a negative opinion of business.

    However, it's highly dangerous to swing in the other direction as well. In this free market world, any companies unhappy with paying too much tax can simply move operations out of the country, which results in losing all of the tax revenue (and jobs) completely.

    This is why political institutions and forums discourage the practice of tax competition, because it can end up being a race to the bottom which helps nobody. If one country does it, other countries must follow suit or they'll become less and less appealing for business.

    Diplomacy is a big part of that. If you want good relations with neighbouring countries, it's best not to massively undercut them with tax and deregulation incentives. There's only so much money and trade in the world, so if a country does attract more business, it's most probably being taken out of somewhere else to do that.

    That's why May is keeping it as a "last resort" weapon in Brexit negotiations. She would prefer a fair trade deal and positive relations, but if she can't get them, a tax war may ensue which would certainly hurt the other side.
     
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    Gecko001

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    But couldnt conditions be put on it? For example, shift your production to the UK and we will undercut your current tax levels by a couple of percent? Still generating tax and moving jobs here.

    Corbyn keeps saying "cut-price" tax haven, which to me suggests he is okay with an element of tax haven-ness going on, he just does not want the extreme version of a tax-haven. (If I'm reading his comments right - I find him to be very slippery and non-committal in his comments at the best of times)

    That isn't what has happened in countries where there is a low corporation tax. Take for example the Republic of Ireland which has a low Corporation Tax and has attracted large corporations like Microsoft and Google. The investment has been largely in buildings, but very little investment in plant. Which basically means that there is not the incentive to stay if there is a downturn in global demand. Compare those industries with say the car industry where the buildings are only a small proportion of the investment compared with the investment on plant. With regard to Mr Corbyn's comments, the jobs in a low CT country like the RoI are not "cut-price" as there are a lot of graduates employed on good wages. Perhaps maybe Mr Corbyn thinks that all these jobs will be call-centre jobs. Many are but as I say even if they are goodish jobs because of the low investment comparted with industrial jobs they perhaps are not going to be very long term due to the lack of investment in plant.

    Britain has always been an industrial nation and should not throw it away looking for the quick buck from a tax haven style economy.
     
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    That's where relaxing the rules on credit comes in :cool:

    The last time I stated that you cannot sell a poor man a new car, the argument was raised, that one can sell a car on credit. How does a destitute single mother on welfare who has to go to a foodbank, buy a new car on credit?

    We have a huge poverty problem in the UK and until that is solved, the UK economy is hardly going to be able to move on.
     
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    Clinton

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    Becoming a tax haven causes an even greater difference between rich and poor and the UK already has the highest difference in Europe and one of the highest on Planet Earth.
    This wealth inequality, I've been thinking, is a bit of a red herring. Wealth inequality itself is a good thing! Without it our economy would collapse.

    But this is like the GDP argument - governments give us bigger GDP and claim to be a success while per capita income keeps going down.

    The wealth disparity is a bit like that I think. I've decided that I wouldn't mind if the gap grew bigger...

    As long as the poor are seeing a much higher percentage of growth in their income.

    For too long we've been fixated with how much the rich are earning. Wealth is not a zero sum game. Instead of the politics of envy we should encourage the rich to get richer as long as the poor are seeing a much, much higher percentage growth in their income.

    This is anathema to the likes of Labour, but it's the best way to improve the lives of the poorest in our society.

    We must stop attacking the wealth creators for creating wealth - we need them to get the poor out of poverty and we need to find better ways to harness them to lift the wealth of the lowest 10%.

    The good news is that wealth inequality in the UK is actually falling, not rising. You won't hear this in most of the press because it doesn't make for a good story. In fact, in the UK it's the lowest it's been since 1986.

    Over the course of the Coalition government, and the Conservatives after that, wealth of the lowest 20% has risen by 13% and wealth of the top 20% has fallen by 3.4%. This is largely as a result of the tax and benefits system as it has been over these two governments.

    But you won't hear the likes of the BBC or the Guardian shouting about that. It ruins the stereotype of Tories existing to favour rich people and toffs ...and Labour being the only party that fights the common man's cause.
     
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    An economy needs some wealth inequality - but the UK suffers from a huge section of the population being destitute.

    These are people that are totally economically inactive, other than to receive transfer payments from you and me - i.e. the tax payer. That is a massive burden upon the rest of the economy and also acts as a brake upon economic activity for the reason given. They cannot afford to buy the stuff that we make for them.

    If you look at the various economies of Europe, the more egalitarian countries are also the richest overall.
     
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    Clinton

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    An economy needs some wealth inequality - but the UK suffers from a huge section of the population being destitute.
    Then these are the people we should be targeting. It seems crazy to go after the rich to fix a problem at the other end of society.

    We should be looking at these destitute people and the causes for their poverty. We should be carefully considering the structural changes we need to make to our society to a) lift these people out of poverty and b) prevent others ending up in a similar pickle.

    Instead the political clamouring is for the rich to be taxed more so that this can be distributed in higher benefits - a simplistic, myopic solution driven by mob baying rather than common sense.
     
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    Newchodge

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    @Clinton Sorry that is pure rubbish.

    the real problem stems from Reagan and Thatcher believing that wealth creators would trickle down their wealth to the poorest. Never happened and never will happen. Wealth creators, largely, create wealth for themselves and squirrel it away in tax havens offshore, making certain that none of the hoi polloi will ever see a penny of it.

    The way to create wealth and grow the economy so that more people share in it is to give money to the poor. Someone with no money and nothing who is given £1,000 will spend every penny of that £1,000 in the local economy, creating demand and creating jobs. If you have £1,000,000 to give away (and the Bank of England apparently has billions to give away to the banks to increase the salaries and bonuses of their directors) you can give it to the wealthy, which the current government is doing, and they will pit it away in a bank, probably not a British bank. If you give £1,000 each to 1,000 people who have nothing all of that money will enter the economy and help to grow it, to create jobs and to increas the government's tax income.

    it is so obvious that the only reason governments have not done it is because they WANT the huge wealth inequality that we have, and they want the people at the bottom to have nothing, no money, no home and no hope.
     
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    Scott-Copywriter

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    I personally believe that globlisation is the key to eliminating wealth inequality once and for all, and also the issue of excessive immigration as a result.

    The only reason companies are able to outsource work to far cheaper labour abroad is because that labour exists.

    However, many countries go through the phase of being a developing market where corporations can outsource work, and when that happens, these countries become richer. Perhaps this doesn't trickle through to workers particularly fast at times, but when certain countries are pumping vast sums of money into other countries (like the US is into China), wealth increases overall.

    China is a good example of that. The difference between China in the 1970s compared to today is remarkable, even if they still have some way to go. And with that wealth, they are gradually shifting towards a service/consumer based economy which has made the likes of the UK and US so wealthy in recent decades. I suspect it won't be long before China actually starts to outsource some manufacturing outside of its own country.

    Eventually, it will get to a point where these sources of cheap production aren't so cheap anymore, and with there only being so many countries in the world, this source of cheap labour will become smaller and smaller until it eventually doesn't exist in any sort of capacity to support the modern world.

    And the good thing about that is it will finally put the excessive profits of corporations to bed once and for all. With a lack of significantly cheap manufacturing available, businesses will be forced to either reduce margins and accept less profit, or not sell any products at all due to them being far too expensive for the consumer market.

    It will no longer be seen as a problem. It will just be seen as the norm. Every business will be in the same boat, and when there's a level playing field, it's far less of an issue.

    I'm all for companies being rewarded with profit as the incentive, but sometimes it does go too far. Take Apple, for example. They have $237 billion in reserves, and what's crazy is that they can't really do anything with it because they refuse to bring it into the US from overseas and pay huge taxes. In fact, they're even taking on more debt in the US.

    But the thing with globalisation is that it will have more downs before it has ups. Wealth inequality has increased in some respects around the world, but persistence is key to seeing a reversal in that trend. We need to keep pushing through the phases of "exploiting" the cheap labour of developing countries until that cheap labour becomes not so cheap and starts to reduce. Once that happens, no corporation on earth will be able to hoard the profit it used to, and the world will just have to adapt.

    Over the next 50 years, I suspect countries like China, Mexico and India to continue growing and for wealth to improve. Attention will then shift to Africa (which is already starting to happen), and then beyond that, there will be few places left to turn.

    An added bonus of this is that corporations will not receive such a heavy blow, which obviously can cause problems. As developing nations become wealthier, they become consumer markets. China, for example, now buys more iPhones than the US. Margins may reduce, but volume will rise.
     
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    Newchodge

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    You are ignoring the fact that many products become obsolete and others are developed but only in certain areas. Also, if there are a finite number of jobs, there is no real solution.
     
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    Scott-Copywriter

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    You are ignoring the fact that many products become obsolete and others are developed but only in certain areas. Also, if there are a finite number of jobs, there is no real solution.

    I think anything can shift around. There are already developing economies making the most complicated products on earth. Mexico, for example, is seeing a huge surge in car manufacturing, and China has always been one of the leaders in semiconductors and electronics.

    Even North Africa is starting to see a rise in advanced manufacturing.

    As for jobs, population growth will see to that, but the improvement in wealth will remain. For example, disposable income in China has been growing at almost 10% per year for a while, and more people will be born into that.

    There's certainly no perfect solution, but the key to stopping the wealthy from hoarding wealth is to make it harder to create such wealth, which will eventually happen. This is not in any way an attempt to artificially restrict corporations, but the fact is they will eventually spend their way into eliminating the pool of inequality from which they can manufacture goods and services at existing margins.

    This will almost certainly start to accelerate as well, due to demand outstripping supply.

    That being said, much of the world's hoarded wealth is not exactly skimmed off the top. A lot of it is down to owning shares in businesses which the market has given value. They are only worth what they are because people want to buy the shares they own.

    Bill Gates is worth $84 billion. He definitely doesn't have $84billion in cash. If Microsoft and other invested companies collapsed before he could sell, his net worth would drop like a stone. He's essentially only worth what the market thinks he's worth.

    This is what annoys me when there are news articles like "the top 1% are wealthier than the bottom 50%". In share and investment value, yes. In cash and tangible assets, absolutely not. And the only reason they can turn that wealth into cash is because there are others prepared to buy that form of wealth in exchange for cash.

    Many companies certainly do hoard a lot of cash, but as margins start to thin out, the ability to do that will diminish greatly. It just takes a lot of time, and it will go up before it starts to come down.
     
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    Some points that need to be addressed -

    That isn't what has happened in countries where there is a low corporation tax. Take for example the Republic of Ireland which has a low Corporation Tax and has attracted large corporations like Microsoft and Google.

    Part of the Celtic Tiger has been Ireland's size. There is a direct relationship between the size of a country and its GDP per capita. There are many forces at work here, but one of them is the 'parasitic' effect of drawing trade and industry away from the larger economies, by offering lower tax rates. There are other forces at work, such as better and more flexible government that is able to address local problems. There is also the effect of governments of smaller countries being more accountable to the electorate. Large economies can waste staggering sums in inefficient pensions for public employees, defence spending, prestige and eye-catching public works and are less likely to be called to account.

    Wealth creators, largely, create wealth for themselves and squirrel it away in tax havens offshore, making certain that none of the hoi polloi will ever see a penny of it.
    Some do and some don't. That effect is usually (but not always) balanced out by rich outsiders coming into a country. The UK is already a tax haven. We have very deliberately set up islands around our shores (IoM, Guernsey, etc.) that are there to service the 'needs' of the very wealthy and we have also given tax-free status to so-called non-doms, who only have to ensure that they are out of the country for over six months. By comparison, Germany taxes non-residents at a flat rate of 30%.

    As you also pointed out, their real 'crime' is to spend money on goods that are not local. A new foreign car benefits the local economy by very, very little.

    The way to create wealth and grow the economy so that more people share in it is to give money to the poor.
    Definitely not! Your heart's in the right place, but a transfer income to the poor is rather like giving food-aid to Somalia. The poor need the means to support themselves, rather than hand-outs that also waste further money by having to be administrated.

    if there are a finite number of jobs, there is no real solution.
    (Sound of Klaxon horn!) That is to believe in the 'Lump of Labour' fallacy! The amount of work to be done is infinite! Therefore the number of places of work available is also infinite. The problem is that people want well-paid jobs that are easy to do. They all want comfortable jobs in warm offices that pay £40k p.a. and can be done with a degree in Media Studies. At the same time, employers like Aldi are looking for people with a First in Chemistry and able to speak a second language and cannot find them.

    A film studio can live on one film a year. That's three months work. But the rest of the year, all the other jobs still need to be done. Roads and buildings need fixing, vehicles need repairing, equipment needs to be maintained, tax returns and all the other office guff needs to be completed - and so on. But ask the HR people at Pinewood what sort of letters asking for jobs come piling in - do they get CVs from carpenters, electricians, road workers, builders, diesel fitters, bookkeepers, legal clerks, roofers and maintenance engineers? Do they hell! Everybody wants to become a $1m-a-gig movie director, but is willing to start off as a cinematographer!

    We should be looking at these destitute people and the causes for their poverty. We should be carefully considering the structural changes we need to make to our society to a) lift these people out of poverty and b) prevent others ending up in a similar pickle.
    Bingo!

    The problem is, there have been no world leaders that are prepared to make those changes. We do not have a Bismark that is prepared to force through massive reforms (in his case the introduction of the welfare state, with free health, education, unemployment and disability payments and all the things that we today take for granted). There are no statesmen out there that can cut through the BS and see the bigger picture.

    The complexity of modern life in the UK mitigates against the poor. They cannot afford accountants to find their way through what is possibly the most complex tax system on Earth. They struggle to find their way through the absurdities of parts of the education and health systems and they are confounded and dumbstruck by the benefits and disabilities systems. Every time the poorer in society try for something better, they are offered whatever that is on credit, making their problems even greater.

    And every time some Johnny-Come-Lately politician tries to reform something, he or she adds to the complexities and ends up making things worse, rather than better.

    But in today's Britain, if you try to introduce simple reforms that have been established throughout the rest of Europe since the War, a great hue and cry goes up. Just say the words 'rent control' and all sorts of people think you are trying to introduce communism. Mention land reform and all hell breaks loose!

    Until simple reforms such as those are introduced, until we make it an offence to rent out substandard housing that is not insulated properly, until we force landlords to take only reasonable rents and stop land owners from hording land tax-free, until we start to act like a civilised society in which everybody has a right to decent health care, housing and education, the British economy will remain the basket case that it is.

    We now have three classes in Britain, the tax-free rich, the tax-paying middle classes and the destitute. That has to change.
     
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    Moving an HQ to a different country, while leaving the jobs where they are does not bring jobs. How many jobs has Boots taken to Switzerland?
    How many jobs has Tina Green taken to Monaco?

    If you have ever visited a carribean tax haven you will see the very stark contrast between very, very swish banks and lawyer's offices on potholed roads.
     
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    Scott-Copywriter

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    One good aspect of the UK regarding its status as a possible "tax haven" is that it's less susceptible to being used as nothing more than a shell.

    There is a wealth of English-speaking talent, a strong business framework and favourable regulations which mean that many companies would prefer to use the UK for more than just its tax benefits (i.e. employing people and creating genuine operations within the borders).

    It's certainly unlikely to be used like somewhere such as the Cayman Islands. That's because of the above reasons and also because even a sharp decline in corporate tax (such as cutting it to 10%) would not really make the UK that competitive compared to the most well-known tax havens which don't impose any direct taxation at all.

    If a company really wanted nothing more than a shell to avoid paying tax, there would be far better options out there.
     
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    Newchodge

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    One good aspect of the UK regarding its status as a possible "tax haven" is that it's less susceptible to being used as nothing more than a shell.

    There is a wealth of English-speaking talent, a strong business framework and favourable regulations which mean that many companies would prefer to use the UK for more than just its tax benefits (i.e. employing people and creating genuine operations within the borders).

    It's certainly unlikely to be used like somewhere such as the Cayman Islands. That's because of the above reasons and also because even a sharp decline in corporate tax (such as cutting it to 10%) would not really make the UK that competitive compared to the most well-known tax havens which don't impose any direct taxation at all.

    If a company really wanted nothing more than a shell to avoid paying tax, there would be far better options out there.

    I couldn't agree with you less. What is to stop companies emulating Boots and many others and moving their nominal place of business to the UK to get the tax breaks, while moving nothing else so the UK gets no benefit.
     
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    Scott-Copywriter

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    I couldn't agree with you less. What is to stop companies emulating Boots and many others and moving their nominal place of business to the UK to get the tax breaks, while moving nothing else so the UK gets no benefit.

    I said it was less susceptible, not that it could be stopped or that it wouldn't happen.

    The simple fact is that even with significant UK tax breaks and deregulation, there would still be far more favourable "tax havens" if companies want nothing more than a shell where they'd pay virtually nothing at all.

    We'd certainly be a lot more appealing, but if they aren't interested in any other aspect of doing business in the UK, they'd still be much better off going elsewhere.

    And besides, Boots employs about 70,000 people in the UK with 2,500 stores. I think it would be wholly reasonable for them to move their HQ back into the UK to take advantage of a more favourable financial position. What more do you want them to do?

    Any company which does move here, regardless of what else they bring, will provide benefits to the UK in the form of tax revenue. It's not like we're going to try and compete with the tiny island havens by offering zero tax rates.
     
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    Newchodge

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    Say we emulate Ireland and have a corporation tax rate of 12%. Immediately we lose 40% of our income from current corporation tax payers. We will receive no corporation tax from any incomer for 2 years so that loss continues for 2 years without anything to replace it. How many corporations would we need to move here to make up for that continuing loss and start to make a 'profit' from it?
     
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    Scott-Copywriter

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    Say we emulate Ireland and have a corporation tax rate of 12%. Immediately we lose 40% of our income from current corporation tax payers. We will receive no corporation tax from any incomer for 2 years so that loss continues for 2 years without anything to replace it. How many corporations would we need to move here to make up for that continuing loss and start to make a 'profit' from it?

    The thing is, corporation tax already makes up a surprisingly small chunk of the UK's total tax revenue. In the last decade, corporation tax has resulted in around 10% of total receipts. VAT has been responsible for 20%, and income tax, CGT and and NI have been for responsible for 56% of total receipts.

    And despite reductions over the last decade, corporation tax revenues have been going up:

    13-14 - £40.3 billion
    14-15 - £43 billion
    15-16 - £44.4 billion

    So something is working.

    But as you can see, we're already getting by with a fairly low reliance on corporation tax. If this seems unusually low, it's most probably because so many service and product providers in the UK are basing their income elsewhere. If we can attract those back, along with other investment, we may see a nice bump.
     
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    Clinton

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    @Newchodge , actually, any move like this would be phased in to be revenue neutral during the transition.

    But let me put a question to you: If total tax take were to go up by 100% as a result of a big CT cut, would you still be opposed to it given that tax cuts will make some multinational corporations even bigger profits, and make some very rich people even richer?
     
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    But let me put a question to you: If total tax take were to go up by 100% as a result of a big CT cut, would you still be opposed to it given that tax cuts will make some multinational corporations even bigger profits, and make some very rich people even richer?

    I'll answer for Cyndy, if I may -

    The UK economy is too big to do that. Being a tax haven is something only small countries can do, that are able to 'bleed' revenue away from the likes of US, UK, Germany and France.

    Luxembourg is there for Germans to park their money away from the prying eyes of the Finanzamt and for major internationals to have a tax-light base inside the EU. France or the UK could not become a Luxembourg, a Lichtenstein or Andorra. Monaco is there, so that rich French people can access France without actually having to live there.

    When a modern and developed economy contains more than about 10m people, it can no longer do what you are proposing, simply because the increase in total revenues is not enough to cover the counteracting decrease in revenues from indigenous businesses.

    Being a tax haven only works if there are enough large economies that are levying heavy taxes, that a tax haven can bleed companies away from. It is similar to the activities of a parasite. Parasites can only survive if they are small.
     
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    Here's a prediction -

    If the triggering of Article 50 starts a landslide of businesses moving out and the Pound falls even further, this is all going to end in tears and to use a Trumpism, it will do so biggly.

    If the markets take the whole thing in their stride, businesses do not announce a major move to the Continent and the Pound goes up, then Brexit will go through without too much fuss and perhaps in 50 years time, we shall look back on this as being a Good Thing.
     
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    D

    Deleted member 59730

    If the markets take the whole thing in their stride, businesses do not announce a major move to the Continent and the Pound goes up, then Brexit will go through without too much fuss and perhaps in 50 years time, we shall look back on this as being a Good Thing.
    It depends on what you believe a good thing is. Good for some but not for others. Hasn't this been Farago's motive all along? Create the circumstances for the billionaire gamblers to get even richer?

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...ent-twenty-years-private-equity-a7540986.html
     
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    What Mr. Hands says in that article, is that violent change benefits rich people and makes the poor, poorer. That is usually, but not always, true.

    For any economy, slow and steady development and evolution is nearly always the best.
     
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    Scott-Copywriter

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    I wonder if the UK will have to go down the tax reduction and deregulation route regardless of the EU deal just to minimise the damage of Brexit.

    It would certainly help matters, but the problem is the EU will be expecting the UK to avoid causing a tax war in exchange for a favourable deal. I doubt we can have both.
     
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    Clinton

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    The UK economy is too big to do that. ..
    Being a tax haven only works if there are enough large economies that are levying heavy taxes, that a tax haven can bleed companies away from. It is similar to the activities of a parasite. Parasites can only survive if they are small.
    I disagree. There is no clear demarcation between what is and isn't a tax haven. We do not need to eliminate any taxes, we just need to reduce them to the point where we are more competitive than other big nations.

    Bear in mind that going hand-in-hand with tax changes will be the removal of regulatory burdens.

    We're not talking parasite kind of tiny skimming of a few morsels. This is the UK. We're not Jersey. If we make significant changes to the attractiveness of the UK we could double our GDP. And that's a very, very big deal when you consider that our GDP is already the 5th largest in the world.

    (Disclaimer: I keep saying "we" but I must make clear I am not a British national and my passport isn't a UK passport. The UK is, however, my country of residence.)
     
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    Newchodge

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    @Newchodge , actually, any move like this would be phased in to be revenue neutral during the transition.

    But let me put a question to you: If total tax take were to go up by 100% as a result of a big CT cut, would you still be opposed to it given that tax cuts will make some multinational corporations even bigger profits, and make some very rich people even richer?

    IF that were to happen I would not object. However I also believe that we need regulation to try to reduce the ridiculous wealth inequality we have in this country already.
     
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    Clinton

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    Thanks for the reply, Cyndy. Personally, I think that "wealth inequality" is the wrong target.

    If someone earning £100m a year increases his earning by 1% he becomes a million quid richer. If someone else making 20,000 increases his earnings by 100% to £40K, that's going to make a significant difference to his life, but the "inequality" gets bigger. If the guy on £20K increases his earnings 10x to £200,000 ... the inequality is still increasing.

    The only way to prevent the gap from increasing is to cap the people at the top from becoming richer. Because even a small 0.1% increase for them is a large number in pounds sterling and increases the gap.

    Completely removing the incentive for wealth creators is not a smart way to treat them, Being vindictive rather than encouraging their success actually works counter to getting the £20K guy up to £40K or more.
     
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