Is SEO dead?

[barringtonfreight]

I have a few websites and have had dealings with some SEO's on here. This isn't a "pop" at anyone. It is just a point for discussion.

Today I have been told by an SEO (that I don't use and who are not on here) that he is "done", "finished" and that "SEO is dead".

According to this person, since the big updates, as quickly as SEO's work out some new techniques, the big G are changing it.

Obviously, as someone with websites bringing revenue, this is not what I want to hear.

What say you SEO chaps?

 

[terryuk]

I've spoke to a few people who have gone off SEO since the last updates, most of which didn't do it as a full-time business.

SEO isn't dead, Google are still catching up from years ago imo - SEO is changing and if they don't want to stay in the business they needn't worry

 

[webgeek]

There are some techniques that have worked consistently over the past several years and are showing no signs of weakening.

SEO is evolving quickly, as automated spam techniques carry much less appeal than in the past.

We had a meeting of 50 or so area SEO's ranging from one man band to large digital agencies... the consensus was that:
1) hands on research is key to determine what really works
2) at least half of what the cutts/fishkin mainstream gurus are preaching is horsehockey
3) if you've used poison tools in the past, you're either abandoning SEO completely or are needing to rebrand (cough Swish Digital cough)

People who relied on xrumer, scrapebox and senuke, plus blog networks, have been hammered by black/white animal updates. Those of us who haven't are only seeing the tiniest of blips on the radar.

Cleaning up the mess someone else has created (spammy backlink profiles) is no different than going in to sort someone else who has tried to overhaul your BMW engine, replace bathroom tiles or plaster the living room. Sorting a mess requires more time and money than doing it right the first time.

Don't expect an SEO nightmare to be sorted in a matter of a few weeks. It can take 4-6 months+ to repair the damage!

 

[Annoying Donkey]

2) at least half of what the cutts/fishkin mainstream gurus are preaching is horsehockey

Dat's a very generous statement!

SEO is alive and well. IMHO some 'traditional' techniques work better than ever because you're no longer competing with so much trash... Though there is still trash ranking...

 

[DPOM]

SEO isn't dead or dying, its being cleaned up as per the points above. I doubt any "real" SEO company is going to proclaim "thats it im done" - thats reserved for the ones that have been caught out by falling foul of Google.

Forget the get ranked quick schemes and automated SEO, buy a bazillion links for quid kind of thing, that is dying.

 

[Mark Walters]

So long as there are search engines then there'll be ways to optimise websites to rank well in them.

The sites ranking on the 1st page right now haven't been chosen at random. They're there because of their SEO campaigns.

What has "died" is the cheap and cheerful approach to SEO. SEO now requires more time, effort and expense.

Having quality content, both on your own site and to publish elsewhere, is now essential for long term results.

Google can't really punish websites filled with quality content and with quality links pointing to that content.

 

[Alby10]

Having quality content, both on your own site and to publish elsewhere, is now essential for long term results.

.

Excellent point. SEO isn't dead and in reality never will be. The term itself means to optimise for search engines, so as long as search engines are around then so will SEO. As indicated by Mark above, the only thing that has changed is the way they work, which is due to the changes that the search engines have introduced. But above all else Quality is key.

 

[mobious]

SEO is not dead, at all - the people who did not know SEO or scamming people into thinking they did are; it's getting harder to succeed in this industry not knowing anything about SEO. Giving advice on SEO in a forum is much easier

 

[mobious]

Excellent point. SEO isn't dead and in reality never will be.

Until the day Google is full of spam or we don't need to search anything

 

[SepticTanks]

I don't think SEO is dead, the SEO company I currently use are doing a great service and I've only seen my ranking improve in the past months.

 

[Kevin H]

Giving advice on SEO in a forum is much easier

Made me laugh - but agree with you anyway.

Another thing that has possibly changed is that the people for whom outsourcing SEO can be beneficial has become more clear.

I always did spend nearly as much time advising small businesses NOT to pay for SEO as those I helped out. With many of the cheap and cheerful (I think I saw this phrase above) methods of poor SEO having 'gone' (at least into hiding) then the lack ROI for the small businesses (to outsource SEO) will hopefully become much clearer.

 

[threenine]

I think what is Dead is the concept that SEO is all you need to do for a website, to get it to rank, and hopefully somebody searches for a phrase and bing your site pops up!

SEO forming part of a Comprehensive Digital Marketing Strategy is still very much alive. However there is a lot more involved.

In the early days of SEO, things were alot easier for the average web developer to call himself an SEO specialist, because the issues that needed to be fixed were very simple HTML tag changes, get some back links to your site, stuff keywords in the content, and you were basically done!

However things have changed completely now, and SEO has taken it's rightful place within the Online Marketing Strategy and there is alot more work that needs to be done in order for it to be effective, and in a majority of cases doesn't involve HTML code changes, rather it is more involved with marketing.

 

[Suzuki]

SEO isn't dead - but the people who had an xrumer account and a text link ads account and called themselves an SEO.... the future doesn't like bright for those guys

 

[eventdomain]

that he is "done", "finished" and that "SEO is dead".

We are an SEO agent to agencies, our clients are advertising and marketing agencies, and we dont want to encourage bad linking as it drives the wrong traffic for our clients. As a search provider, we battle against that undesirable element in the thousands each year, and we know that free link building SEO IS on borrowed time.

We feel with the many start-ups about (and established Co's) that on-site SEO trade will remain for a long time, But the off-site link gathering, side will perish, because many sites now don't wish to serve a general audience, nor allow the undesirable element into their portals, engines or communities.

The drive of low-level ROI will frustrate many, who will quickly work out where their links are, and simply remove the under-performing links. This means zero trade for the low-grade untargeted, and more business for the exclusive websites.

Unfortunately, there's too many still using the low-grade blogs etc, and this adds to an untargeted and spammy world. Not what the search engines want to see and won't reward you for it.

 

[webgeek]

We are an SEO agent to agencies, our clients are advertising and marketing agencies, and we dont want to encourage bad linking as it drives the wrong traffic for our clients. As a search provider, we battle against that undesirable element in the thousands each year, and we know that free link building SEO IS on borrowed time.

So, ED, who is posting on your behalf, as obviously either an alter-ego or staff member has taken over this account and is posting positions counter to anything you've ever written previously.

I have no idea who's doing the writing, but perhaps the account has been hijacked.

If, for some crazy reason, I'm off base.... please explain how YOU are an SEO agent, because the only things you've ever posted here are SEO bashing (for the past x years anyway).

 

[Annoying Donkey]

So, ED, who is posting on your behalf, as obviously either an alter-ego or staff member has taken over this account and is posting positions counter to anything you've ever written previously.

I have no idea who's doing the writing, but perhaps the account has been hijacked.

If, for some crazy reason, I'm off base.... please explain how YOU are an SEO agent, because the only things you've ever posted here are SEO bashing (for the past x years anyway).

It's ED from an alternate reality...

 

[eventdomain]

If, for some crazy reason, I'm off base

My company is an agent to other agencies eg: they use us for direct advertising and off-site SEO.

Other definitions might be: Lead-generation, search advertising, web marketing etc We also serve consultancies, where we provide specialist advert services to drive specific traffic direct to them, which is the same as any agency does.

One of our web properties provides off-site SEO, it also provides advertising - so we are also a lead-gen service. Another of our websites is a community forum - so this provides a publishing service, as does blogs, forums, directories etc etc etc.

Most websites either are lead-gen or agencies using lead-generation sites.

 

[webgeek]

Owning 1 directory site does not make an 'SEO agent to agencies', no matter how hard you spin it...

That's akin to saying Kentucky Fried Chicken are astronauts, because I found a Buzz Lightyear toy in their parking lot.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Owning 1 directory site does not make an 'SEO agent to agencies', no matter how hard you spin it...

That's akin to saying Kentucky Fried Chicken are astronauts, because I found a Buzz Lightyear toy in their parking lot.

harsh but fair, made me smile anyhow

 

[trebor8]

SEO is (half) Dead. Long live SEM

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

The inherent nature of search engines means that SEO will always exist.

The concept is built on certain websites being more relevant to certain keywords than others, and this relevance is then ranked accordingly. For that reason, SEO will always be there to help websites become more relevant for the keywords they want to target.

 

[trebor8]

Does anyone think there's going to be a move away from keywords? towards the 'quality content' esp, because of social media.

 

[terryuk]

Does anyone think there's going to be a move away from keywords? towards the 'quality content' esp, because of social media.

If you mean stripping your website of keywords on the page, I can't see it going that far but with the anchor text changes we've seen lately, Google are getting better at understanding your keywords and content without the need for using spammy anchor text.

Semantic keywords & synonyms have been strong for some time

To add Plus+ profiles are categorized so we might start seeing a bit of that come into play

 

[SqueakyHinge]

The Real Point Is...............

Seo Is Far, Far Less Profit Making Than It Was Back In The Day.

Google Serps Displays Are Favoring Google More And More Meaning Less Free Traffic And Google Updates, Which Also Favor Google More And More, Most Notably A 'mistake' They Made Mid Year Which Saw Lots Of Websites With No Reason To Vanish In Google To Vanish Losing People Money And Making People Turn To Ppc For A Short Time Until Site Recovery. Lots And Lots Of Things Are Making Paying Seo's A Bit More Of A Risk Than It Used To Be. And It Used To Be A Really Big Risk, So Risk Is A Lot Higher As Roi Is Becoming More And More Questionable.

Times Are Changing Quickly.

 

[webgeek]

Seo Is Far, Far Less Profit Making Than It Was Back In The Day.

This may be your perception, but is completely untrue.
- SEO techniques have changed, yes.
- SEO results have not changed.
- Top SEO efforts = top search results = top £££ earned by the website

 

[Kevin H]

The Real Point Is...............

Seo Is Far, Far Less Profit Making Than It Was Back In The Day.

SEO is far less profit making for SEOs who wanted to make a quick buck. Good SEO is time and labour intensive and therefore not cheap (and not right for every client business).

Hence many SEO companies complaining about the changes to the algorithms. They can no longer charge top-£ for doing next to nothing but buy links etc.

For the right client business SEO can still be excellent value.

 

[SillyJokes]

Been getting as many phonecalls from SEOs desperate for business as ever, even one that is top on google for the term SEO, so if they are having to trawl the directories for business it tells you something....

I think that the way google now presents results means that there are far fewer slots on the home page and it is virtually impossible to distinguish PPC ads and real results. Couple this with a huge percentage of purchases starting on Amazon, bypassing Google altogether and being somewhere near the top of the search engine isn't nearly as easy and profitable as it was.

 

[Suzuki]

This may be your perception, but is completely untrue.
- SEO techniques have changed, yes.
- SEO results have not changed.
- Top SEO efforts = top search results = top £££ earned by the website

Depends on the niche I suppose, but in general seo today is probably more profitable than back in the day for me, as affiliate niches have matured.

Also some sites and niches are getting destroyed by Google taking a far bigger slice of the pie - look at car insurance, 'hotels in xxxx' etc - Google are taking a massive amount of money that could previously have been won by an seo, but is now no longer even on the table to compete for

 

[eventdomain]

Off-site SEO (which is link acquisition) requires cash to truly make it work and tons of time to hunt down the right websites. Freebie link pages and articles, even blogs got stung by Google, EVERYONE KNOWS THIS - so any effort towards those are a waste of time. Eg: the wrong sites are still being targeted.

Giving free stuff might be nice, but it dont pay the bills.

 

[eventdomain]

so if they are having to trawl the directories for business it tells you something....

Yes - they are doing this!

 

[SqueakyHinge]

This may be your perception, but is completely untrue.
- SEO techniques have changed, yes.
- SEO results have not changed.
- Top SEO efforts = top search results = top £££ earned by the website

You would say it untrue as you have a bias

The changes google have made to their sperps display have, i will say it again for all those who struggle to read properly, have, made seo less profit making. Google want people on ppc, not spamming to the top of free lists.

When you do a google search ppc ads are in the middle of the screen, you have to scroll down for organics. Back in the day organics were above the fold.

 

[SqueakyHinge]

The inherent nature of search engines means that SEO will always exist.

The concept is built on certain websites being more relevant to certain keywords than others, and this relevance is then ranked accordingly. For that reason, SEO will always be there to help websites become more relevant for the keywords they want to target.

What is the inherent nature of a search engine. Nothing is inherent.

A search engine doesnt have to organise the web via an algorithm that ranks popularity.

Some SE's rank the web on what they see fit to be on the first page with disregard for actual seo.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

What is the inherent nature of a search engine. Nothing is inherent.

A search engine doesnt have to organise the web via an algorithm that ranks popularity.

Some SE's rank the web on what they see fit to be on the first page with disregard for actual seo.

Where did I say popularity? I said relevancy. Read my post properly please.

Search engines help people to find the webpage they are looking for. This is based on the search engine taking the information the visitor has entered and then presenting the website most relevant to what they want.

Without this, the whole concept of a search engine wouldn't exist, so it is the inherent nature which will never go away.

 

[SqueakyHinge]

Where did I say popularity? I said relevancy. Read my post properly please.

I read it and i put a big hole in it.

Did i say you said popularity.....:|:|:|:|

Search engines help people to find the webpage they are looking for. This is based on the search engine taking the information the visitor has entered and then presenting the website most relevant to what they want.

SEO IS DEAD in instances where a search engine doesn't do its business the way you would like it to. You think a search engine has to be organised by robotic algorithms by the sound of things, untrue....

Some search engines display results that are hand picked by people who work for the company. What good is SEO to the people who don't get hand picked by an employee of a search engine, it isn't any good at all.

My point being you are patently incorrect to presume search engines have an inherent nature and that seo will always exist.

Im right your wrong.

 

[uk_biz]

SEO techniques have changed after the recent Google updates, not dead.

 

[Orrell Electrics]

Not for me, 100% trust in my SEO man, a totally unrelated example my game electrician has seen massive changes in the last couple of years basically to weed out the rubbish. We have had to evolve and are much more accountable now - no problem if you do things by the book!!

I think SEO is the same, get rid of the chancers and let the pro's do their stuff

 

[dolphinformations]

Everyone keeps saying if you do SEO legitimately then you'll be fine, but both spammers/black hat SEO's AND completely white hat non overoptimised sites have been burnt with G's updates.

It's definitely evolving and its not dead imo.

To throw a spanner in the works, what about negative SEO? I know a few sites completely ruined because of negative SEO campaigns, who were whiter than white previously with their SEO efforts.

It doesn't surprise me that so many are giving up on SEO or at least not making it a major part of their strategy..anymore

Sent from my HTC One X using UK Business Forums

 

[terryuk]

To throw a spanner in the works, what about negative SEO? I know a few sites completely ruined because of negative SEO campaigns, who were whiter than white previously with their SEO efforts.

It's been said before, most white hat SEO is no longer white hat.. to get any kind of viable and big money results there is a risk involved imo, whether that's calculated or not - maybe more riskier now than before but eh

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

I read it and i put a big hole in it.

Did i say you said popularity.....:|:|:|:|



SEO IS DEAD in instances where a search engine doesn't do its business the way you would like it to. You think a search engine has to be organised by robotic algorithms by the sound of things, untrue....

Some search engines display results that are hand picked by people who work for the company. What good is SEO to the people who don't get hand picked by an employee of a search engine, it isn't any good at all.

My point being you are patently incorrect to presume search engines have an inherent nature and that seo will always exist.

Im right your wrong.

You're talking about the methods, I'm talking about the concept. For as long as search engines are trying to judge relevancy, whether it's through an algorithm or human control, SEO will always exist, just in potentially different forms.

The moment you add content to a page to make it seem more relevant to a specific keyword, the concept of SEO is applied. In the case of algorithms, it's to allow the calculations to score your website as the most relevant. In the case of human control, it's to help the person realise that your website is the most relevant. The same concept still applies. The only difference is that SEO for human selection is much cleverer and more subtle. SEO companies will try to judge what human selectors are looking for when it comes to certain keywords and tailor their copy to suit that. It's still SEO.

Search engines using information to make a judgement on the most relevant page, whether robotic or human, is the inherent nature of search engines which will never go away. If that was removed then a search engine would be nothing more than an ordinary directory.

So I'm not wrong, but nice try.

 

[eventdomain]

SEO IS DEAD in instances where a search engine doesn't do its business the way you would like it to

The engines hold the power, they decide where and IF you rank at all

If you get a freebie - be grateful...

The same applies to links - links are favours, and NOT a right.

The free link ride is over, apart from the empty directories with inflated Alexa ratings and me-too blogs - links will be tough to get, and thus the side of free SEO is dead for SEO agents/paid link-builders (not the same as Advert publishing Agencies).

Paid links WILL always be available - freebie SEO is screwed. Why should websites give anyone a link, just because they like the idea of that...... you have no say in this whatsoever eg: the decision is not the beggers' to make -- power is not with them, not upto them and the most important point is they don't own anything to be able to give the favour back. I mean that's the biggest flaw in link requesting period.


You need quality to request quality....