What chains will be gone by the end of 2012

Would have to agree, they are building a new one by Clapham Junction. Although its not a prestige location I cannot imagine it is cheap to build there and the location is fantastic, shops, bars, clubs and Clapham Junction can get you anywhere!

Very many of the budget hotels you see just lease the buildings from property speculators who buy the land, get the planning for those generic "hotels" you see, find a tenant and then build. Same goes for budget supermarkets.

Exact numbers I do not know, but it does mean a business like Travelodge could have a lot less assets than you would imagine.
 
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SillyJokes

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Not sure how Hotel Chocolat stay in business. I can't never bring myself to pay their prices and overall across the market the cost of choccies has gone up a lot. After Christmas when everyone is on a diet can you imagine how tough it would be to sell premium confectionary?
 
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mhall

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Total Assets £1,124,500,000
Total Liabilities £236,100,000
Cash £37,300,000
Tangible Assets £552,200,000
Intangible Assets £5,900,000
Total Fixed Assets £558,100,000
Total Current Assets £566,400,000
Trade Debtors £3,700,000
Stock £1,100,000
Other Current Assets £524,300,000
Total Current Liabilities £189,100,000
Trade Creditors £15,900,000
Other Short Term Finance £103,600,000
Misc Current Liabilities £69,600,000
Other Long Term Finance £29,100,000
Total Long Term Liabilities £47,000,000
 
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mhall

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Well that may be true ,but if the owners are in debt to the tune of 2.6 billion.

I would suggest the whole venture is financed by debt?

Earl

I suppose they could try and sell the goose that is laying all their profitable eggs, but it would be a last gasp option surely?

Would prove the dangers of being owned by someone else
 
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AndyBlue

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I suppose they could try and sell the goose that is laying all their profitable eggs, but it would be a last gasp option surely?

Would prove the dangers of being owned by someone else

But that only relates to the fact they may get sold, not disappear from the high street - also just as a thought when has a hotel chain be a retailer ?:D Just saying.....
 
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captaincloser

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18 pages later this still remains a speculative gallows watching thread with nothing more than regurgitated internet news stories about chains and now a hotel group going bust.

Nothing against it, I enjoy it but its a guilty pleasure...

I still challenge anyone to give a point to this bumptiousness:)
 
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captaincloser

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It's a discussion about retail businesses in the retail section of a business forum.

Go on, prove otherwise :)

It is all of those things. Its like saying the Great train robbery was planned in a pub in Hammersmith in 1963 or whenever..all facts but it was still The Great Train robbery.

If there was anything more than speculation...ie Why or How but it's simply who...and its speculative.

Not sure that I have to prove much... I think I am just saying its B***ox
(also not back working yet so time to kill winding you up)...;)
 
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It is all of those things. Its like saying the Great train robbery was planned in a pub in Hammersmith in 1963 or whenever..all facts but it was still The Great Train robbery.

If there was anything more than speculation...ie Why or How but it's simply who...and its speculative.

Not sure that I have to prove much... I think I am just saying its B***ox
(also not back working yet so time to kill winding you up)...;)

Ah, but the point is we can come back to the thread in twelve months time and see how rubbish we all really are at speculating about other businesses.
 
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quikshop

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Can't be bothered to read through the latest dozen pages but;

1. HMV, on its last legs and selling the only profitable part of its business to buy time for a doomed roll out of new concept shops.

2. JJB, on its last legs and will become a small premium niche to Sports Direct.

3. Blacks Leisure, currently being sliced and diced by... Sports Direct owner.

4. Argos, will downsize dramatically after being sold for pennies.

5. WHSmiths, how the hell are they still trading :eek:

6. Mothercare, management have completely b*ll*cked up and will see the end of the brand on the high street in the UK.

7. GAME. Failed before and will fail again. Cannot compete with online and supermarket sales of same games for less.

etc etc
 
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SGPS

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What about Kwik Fit?

Sure they where in tough waters, but saying that they where bought by some massive finance guys, so maybe they can fund their mess for a little longer.

It is a shame how things are turning out. How Mothercare made a mess i will never know, people are never afraid to spend money on new borns. They should have cleared up.

I think whats happened is consumers used to believe that the bigger chains had super buying power so things would be cheaper. The chains capatalised on that by upping their prices, then when the online boom came they sneeked in from behind them. And my theory is that people feel cheated by the bigger chains and no longer trust their pricing, hence shopping online.

Greed......
 
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Doodle-Noodle

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Well, I reckon (oh, go on, you know you want my opinion ........) I reckon that any retailer who sells what you can easily and more cheaply get on the internet is at risk.
Anyone who sells stuff that you can't buy online (like a haircut, a replacement exhaust with fitting) will be laughing.
So all we have to do, as retailers, is sell stuff that nobody else can. Then we'll all be happy.
 
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quikshop

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It is a shame how things are turning out. How Mothercare made a mess i will never know, people are never afraid to spend money on new borns. They should have cleared up.

Got to agree, but you know how directorships of large companies works. It's certainly not done on ability but more about who you play golf with and shared a dorm at school.

So many companies are run by incompetent 'chaps' who will burn one company only to pop up 18 months later at the helm of another.
 
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Nuno

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Mothercare made a mess by allowing Ben Gordon, CEO until Oct 2011, to become a sleb CEO with plans for international domination, taking his eye off the ball, losing the plot and running aground.

That RBS 'chap' Fred the Shred was another sleb international biznizman who thought he could change the time-space continuum but could only lose money.

Now, to borrow the title from one of the best bands eva; one step beyond:
What happens when, (not if), all these big players vanish from the high streets? Loads of empty space will happen. Who will lower rents first? No-one. Why? Because if you lower rents you lower the capital value of the property portfolio, and if this goes too low, (and it's on the cusp now), the banking covenants are broken and the banks want their money back, which they won't get. And then its titsup down the plughole time for everybody.

Yay. Bumptious Gold Star for me.
 
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captaincloser

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Anyone else want to look for, or see the positive in the High street ? Someone challenged me a couple of days ago and I mentioned John Lewis Group.Today they announce stellar xmas results.

There are winners out there and it would be great to see UKBFers name a few rather than your monotonous Elm street picks.
This is the New year not doomsday.:)
 
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Anyone else want to look for, or see the positive in the High street ? Someone challenged me a couple of days ago and I mentioned John Lewis Group.Today they announce stellar xmas results.

There are winners out there and it would be great to see UKBFers name a few rather than your monotonous Elm street picks.
This is the New year not doomsday.:)

Job Centre, just off my high street.

Pops ~xx~
 
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RBS

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IMO 99p shops will do very well as people start counting money. Me & my wife have noticed most of the branded products can be bought there saving LOT of money. Hand soap, shower gel, shampoo, toothpaste etc - 99p compared to some products costing 3 and even 4 £ in Boots and similar. They pretty much have most of houshold items.
 
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S

Steve Sellers

Hand soap, shower gel, shampoo, toothpaste etc - 99p compared to some products costing 3 and even 4 £ in Boots and similar. They pretty much have most of houshold items.

Yes but the cheeky blighters sell the products in reduced sizes compared to other shops. Not so much as you notice, but enough to increase their margins.

Homebargains is really good for branded products quite cheap also.
 
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captaincloser

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Yep and the poundshops, - the savings are better off in my pocket, then being broke and pretending to be a snob!;)

Pops ~xx~

I dont think you can pretend to be a snob...:) You can be an inverted snob but we shan't go there....

Both of these guys above are from Yorkshire and sure as apples is apples there ain't a Yorkshireman born yet who wouldn't cross a threshold for a bargain.. I was brought up there so feel a bit qualified to say this.

I think they are pulling our leg. ;)
 
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Steve Sellers

Both of these guys above are from Yorkshire and sure as apples is apples there ain't a Yorkshireman born yet who wouldn't cross a threshold for a bargain.. I was brought up there so feel a bit qualified to say this.

Ah the old Yorkshire men are skinflints typecast. Totally inappropriate and wrong. Now where is my flatcap, I really must take the whippet out for a walk down t'social....:D

p.s. Yes I love a bargain. Went into Tesco when they opened after Christmas and bought several £15 pork joints down about £6-£7......be eating pork all year.....:)
 
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Anyone else want to look for, or see the positive in the High street ? Someone challenged me a couple of days ago and I mentioned John Lewis Group.Today they announce stellar xmas results.

There are winners out there and it would be great to see UKBFers name a few rather than your monotonous Elm street picks.
This is the New year not doomsday.:)

Keep taking the pills.;)

"While John Lewis will have had a profitable Christmas, margins are likely to have been eroded by price matching, and this will result in lower profitability for the full year and a reduced bonus pool for partners."

I believe this lot have had a bumper year.

Earl
 
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captaincloser

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Keep taking the pills.;)

"While John Lewis will have had a profitable Christmas, margins are likely to have been eroded by price matching, and this will result in lower profitability for the full year and a reduced bonus pool for partners."
Earl

Who are you quoting..I am not impressed simply with quotation marks.Please dont say KPMG...

Also they use the word "likely'". Well in fact the figures published today are fine.

The last part of this quote is also based on the word "likely" which makes it a nonsense and certainly not a quotable quote.

John Lewis have a unique business model and nobody has really denegrated that model in years.They will be one of the last standing in any Doomsday scenario for the big guns on the High street.

As for the pills..I do keep taking them but find it annoying when the pharamaceutical companies keep changing the damn colours. Have they nothing better to do ? I keep reading about millions being spent by Zeneka and Co on research and all they seem to do is change the colours of the smarties !:)
 
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captaincloser

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Ah the old Yorkshire men are skinflints typecast. Totally inappropriate and wrong. Now where is my flatcap, I really must take the whippet out for a walk down t'social....:D

p.s. Yes I love a bargain. Went into Tesco when they opened after Christmas and bought several £15 pork joints down about £6-£7......be eating pork all year.....:)

Steve, I wear flat caps and take the terrier down t'local. Its great. :)
 
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captaincloser

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John Lewis Group ;

Quote from London Evening Etandard this evening :

The chain revealed today that it took 593 miilion in the five weeks up to the ned of December, up9.3% on last year...total sales up 19.1% higher than 2 years ago. In the third week of last month John lewis stores sold more than in any week in the partnership's history...

This success is partly explained by a really successful advertising campaign which caught the public eye and mood.

Their profit warning is just typical of a big company being cautious and of course the high street is in trouble,Everyone is affected.

KPMG
I would never take notice of KPMG statements.They are nothing more than bagmen for the seriously bad guys in big business. I would say that as humbly as possible...but its not possible.
 
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Chris34

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High street retailers are being hit from all angles at the moment and have been increasingly hit year on year dating back to when the internet was born (properly) around about the mid 90's. There are lot's of reasons for this, the major one being the competition from the internet but this is not the reason why shops are failing. I sell on the internet but I never buy from the internet, why? It's because I prefer to go into a shop and buy something, I use the internet to find a price and to find info on a product but I will only buy from a shop. There are lot's of people like myself. I've sold thousands on the internet but only bought once.

The two primary reasons for shops closing are:

1. PARKING CHARGES - I can't even go to browse any of the shops near myself without having to pay a parking charge. Thats both locally and at the larger towns further away. This immediately puts me off from 'having a quick look' as a) I don't want to pay to have a look, and b) I have to have change to put in the damn machine. If I haven't got it then how am I supposed to get change without parking up? But how can I go and get change without parking up? This immediately is a barrier between the 'potential' customer and the shop keeper. How on earth is a shop keeper supposed to sell to someone who refuses to pay to browse?

The worst for me was just last week. For anybody who doesn't know, Stockport town centre is one of the worst areas in the UK for empty shops. The Peel Centre in Stockport has a Curry's, Pc World, Comet, Argos, Boots, Toy's R Us etc. These are on the edge of Stockport town centre so not out of town but the same style but on the edge of town. I pulled up on the car park with the intention to 'browse' and then noticed that they are charging £1 for 2 hours. Now I know it doesn't sound like a lot but it's the principle of it for me. I mean I only wanted to have a look so essentially I was being told to pay £1 for the privilege. I refused to pay and drove off. Parking charges are a big no no. If you were charged £1 to go on a website and have a look at what they had you would more than likely not pay it. It's a reason to not go shopping, a big no no.


2. RENT PRICES - Landlords charge absolutely ridiculous prices. For a shop in my local town they are charging between £400 and £800 per week for shops that are around 400-600 square foot. This is local shops the type of shops that should exist here are butchers, green grocers, delis, cafe's, small clothing shops, hair dressers, newsagents etc. I say 'should' exist because the town isn't big enough to feed the bigger chain stores shops, there aren't enough people, the shops were designed in the 60's for local people, it's a local shopping centre. The centre it pretty dead now, greggs bakery moved out last year after being there since the 80's and I'd guess it's the landlord trying to just ease that last pound out of them. Honestly £400 per week is just ridiculous, nobody with any sense would pay that price for a little town shopping centre shop and that's exactly what's happening. One by one they are disappearing and we are being left with charity shops, (there's only about 15 shops as it is). Landlords and the council are the biggest problems with shops around this area and I'd expect it's the same with the rest of the country.

Between them rich out of touch landlords and the councils are the largest reason why all high street shops will eventually fail. If you want an order in which will fail first then here you go:


Phase 1.

Larger towns - HMV, Blacks, Comet, Carpet Right basically all the ones that have been in the news needing either a buyout or an increased overdraft (if the business ain't making money now then it will only get worse, an overdraft is just putting off the inevitable)

Smaller towns - All non essential local shops, cd / music shops, small electrical shops, small furniture shops, small computer shops, Estate agent shops (but the agent will carry on office based), small fashion clothes shops (one's serving the over 60's will scrape by), small stationary shops, any remaining photo express shops, card shops, all are at high risk of closing.


Phase 2.

Larger towns - Most of the remaining chains will have moved out and moved into smaller out of town shopping centres. We will see a lot more teaming together and putting two three or four shops within 1 a bit like you see at debenhams at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised to see HMV inside Sainsbury's. Maplins will team up with Machine and Mart. There will be a lot of this going on. Because the high streets will be so empty the remaining independents there will have no option but to close. At this point the rich landlords might offer incentives to stay but it will be too late, the damage will have been done. The shopping centres and high streets will then be demolished and new homes will be built in their place.

Smaller towns - Some restaurants, some cafe's, most of the hair salons will go(you will only see 1 or 2 per town, not 5), sandwich shops, long-standing newsagents will start to disappear.


Phase 3

Larger towns - There will either be empty smashed shops waiting to be knocked down or there will be new houses owned by the council being let out.

Smaller towns - Only shops with a market aimed at primarily the over 60's will survive. Shops like Mobility shops, long standing hairdressers, general food stores (tesco express, late shop, spar). There will be long-standing restaurants and takeaways that will be ok. Anything that relies on a high footfall won't be there. Half of the smaller towns would be converted to homes by the council. The remaining shops will be long-standing shops and continue to trade having weathered the storm but on a much smaller high street so much less potential competition.





Chris. (Good to look back in 15-20 years and see how it all panned out)
 
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Anyone else want to look for, or see the positive in the High street ? Someone challenged me a couple of days ago and I mentioned John Lewis Group.Today they announce stellar xmas results.

There are winners out there and it would be great to see UKBFers name a few rather than your monotonous Elm street picks.
This is the New year not doomsday.:)

But as I said earlier, where is the debate in "oh yes M&S and Tesco are going to continue doing well, can't see much going wrong with Boots either".

Can you imagine if all that was reported on the banking crisis was "well Coutts and Co will be OK".

So why is it ok to speculate about the banks, and this forum is littered with such threads, but not retail?

When you back at work :p
 
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captaincloser

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But as I said earlier, where is the debate in "oh yes M&S and Tesco are going to continue doing well, can't see much going wrong with Boots either".

Can you imagine if all that was reported on the banking crisis was "well Coutts and Co will be OK".

So why is it ok to speculate about the banks, and this forum is littered with such threads, but not retail?

When you back at work :p

As Coutts and co are part of RBS I think they got quite a lot of publicity and they were not ok;).

Nothing wrong at all in the speculaation on retail..its great to read. My only point is that there's not much more than a series of people who did not read the previous posts and mention the same names. Who among the big High street chains is in peril is quite a short subject as there appear to be 6 well known ones only.Repeating those names is not a discussion.

Someone asked for an example of a good company that would ride this out and I mentioned John Lewis in an attempt to open this up...but its not going to...once again bottom feeders win the day in the UKBF goldfish discussion bowl:)
 
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quikshop

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Someone asked for an example of a good company that would ride this out and I mentioned John Lewis in an attempt to open this up...but its not going to...once again bottom feeders win the day in the UKBF goldfish discussion bowl:)

Didn't Santa Claus bring you anything from your Christmas list :|

You obviously have too much time on your hands, why would anyone read through 18 pages of posts before posting themselves? If it's a repeat of an earlier post then ignore it and move on.

A good company that will ride this out? Halfords. Recently acquired a competitor and although performance has been hit and miss, there is no doubt that they have the capital to ride this one out and lets face it, with the state of the roads declining week on week they will have no shortage of business.

Apologies in advance if Halfords has been mentioned previously :rolleyes:
 
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