Phone tapping ...a Wapping scandal.

[captaincloser]

The News of the World phone tapping scandal has now become too big a story to have anyone 'make it quietly go away'..

The fallout in the newspaper industry will be immense and will also very likely down some politicians and bring the previous police non-action sharply into focus and into question.

The reason a lot of newspapers are keeping 'mum' on the subject is because most are possibly as embroiled as much as Newsgroup newspapers are alleged to be in the systematic 'tapping' of phones for years.

This is going to be the biggest 'newspaper' business story in a generation if we did but know it.

 

[Dawg]

I agree, although there is a risk of a lot of it being swept under the carpet, (come on you bloggers and 'citizen journalists!).

There are lots of oddities:

• Why has Yates (of the Yard) gone out on a limb?
• Is the Guardian the only clean paper? (They surely wouldn't be chasing with such vigour to give Murdoch a bloody nose if they had dirty hands, would they?)
• If the old adage applies and Tories get caught in sex scandals, Labour get caught in money scandals, won't it be more likely that the tabloids have been following the sex stories and the Tories, being in power, will try for the cover up?
• Will Mandelson pass Go and collect his £2m?

Should be a good summer of news, only marred by the fact that Ken Clarke has already decided not to jail MPs or any other type of common or garden crook.

 

[vvaannmmaann]

Surely we have bigger,more scary things to be thinking about?

 

[Dawg]

Surely we have bigger,more scary things to be thinking about?

As with so many things it's not the actual events which are earth shattering, it's the cover ups.
Here:

• Did the second most senior policeman in the Met tell a load of porkies, and if so why?
• Did Brown react favorably to Murdoch's request to have this all ignored?

Both go to the possible corruption at the heart of the establishment, which as you imply is more important than the news that some celeb gets their jollies away from home.

 

[captaincloser]

Surely we have bigger,more scary things to be thinking about?

I am quite sure many readers on here have bigger and more scary things to think about. That could be said of 99% of all interaction.

What is your point ? I can see you sitting over a bowl of shreddies awaiting your next 'scary' story.

I and many others are fascinated by this story as it goes to the heart of the newspaper business and the billionaire Rupert Murdoch is asking everyone, including government ministers it seems, to indulge in a level of naievity that perhaps only readers of his newspapers can aspire to. There is a serious possible issue of collusion also by law enforcement agencies and possible jail time for several senior management of News International.

It doesen't come much bigger in Wapping and a fascinating story for those with even a passing interest in how newspapers get their stories .For Murdoch, Coulson and Rebekah Wade and most senior management to have not known what the journos were doing beggars belief.

This is a huge public interest and business story.

 

Now lets see we are told not to send sensitiver information by email which goes down a phone line.

If you are stupid enough to discuss sensitive information on a mobile phone ( radio waves ) then don't be surprised if someone is listening in.

Be nice if the mobile phone manufacturers warned the public of this aspect of there hot air machines.

Earl

 

[captaincloser]

As Hugh Grant rightly suggested this evening (I paraphrase)..this story was never going to capture general public interest until this newest evidence floated down the N.O.W sewer about hacking and tampering with voicemail of murder victims and their families.

Several people are quite possibly going to be jailed including serving officers and retired officers of the MET and other police forces as the bribery payments come to light. Several ex journalists and a some current ones will face trial and possible consequences. The story hasnt even begun yet. The bribes will certainly have gone beyond the police.

As I mentioned back in April..this is the biggest thing to ever have hit British newspapers. These people were tapping phones long before hacking phones was invented. Its now a question of how far back they want to go with the investigation. The evidence is there and it will come out.

News Group may be a tiny part of the Murdoch empire but there is a chance this story will swallow him alive and will certainly scupper the BskyB deal once the indignant British public are spoon fed more and more of the dastardly goings on behind their red top Sunday papers. Of course it's not just the N.O.W...thats the jaw dropping bit. It's Wapping and before that it was Fleet street. There were many at it to bolster their stories

Advertisers are already reaching for the sick bag.

much more to follow..

 

As I mentioned back in April..this is the biggest thing to ever have hit British newspapers. .

WW2 made quite a splash.?

Its only big for the gossip brigade ,that is if they are not to busy watching Britains got talent.

as mentioned if you are stupid enough to release sensitive information on the airwaves.

Then you probably deserve all you get.:|

Earl

 

[captaincloser]

WW2 made quite a splash.?

Its only big for the gossip brigade ,that is if they are not to busy watching Britains got talent.

as mentioned if you are stupid enough to release sensitive information on the airwaves.

Then you probably deserve all you get.:|

Earl

My point Earl,which you clearly did get is that its the biggest story about newspapers...blimey there have been several million bigger stories than this...but this is the murky one and the writhing and slithering that is about to follow is going to blow sone ugly people out of the water.
The cover up is the story more than the story and the cover up is now just beginning to unwind...

 

[matt seymour]

As Hugh Grant rightly suggested this evening (I paraphrase)..this story was never going to capture general public interest until this newest evidence floated down the N.O.W sewer about hacking and tampering with voicemail of murder victims and their families.

Several people are quite possibly going to be jailed including serving officers and retired officers of the MET and other police forces as the bribery payments come to light. Several ex journalists and a some current ones will face trial and possible consequences. The story hasnt even begun yet. The bribes will certainly have gone beyond the police.

As I mentioned back in April..this is the biggest thing to ever have hit British newspapers. These people were tapping phones long before hacking phones was invented. Its now a question of how far back they want to go with the investigation. The evidence is there and it will come out.

News Group may be a tiny part of the Murdoch empire but there is a chance this story will swallow him alive and will certainly scupper the BskyB deal once the indignant British public are spoon fed more and more of the dastardly goings on behind their red top Sunday papers. Of course it's not just the N.O.W...thats the jaw dropping bit. It's Wapping and before that it was Fleet street. There were many at it to bolster their stories

Advertisers are already reaching for the sick bag.

much more to follow..

I couldn't agree more with your first paragraph.

I had generally given this whole story little attention all the time we were talking about "celebrities" having their phones tapped, but the news that Milly Dowler's phone was given the same treatment now makes this an entirely different kettle of fish.

It's frankly disgusting and I sincerely hope those responsible get everything they deserve. I also believe this is only the tip of the iceberg and a lot of people are going to find themselves in a whole lot of trouble - and deservedly so.

 

[I Love Spreadsheets]

Why do people keep reading the paper is the big mystery to me - It has upset most people and yet they carry on reading it.

After the Hilsborough disaster the good people of Liverpool all but kicked the Sun newspaper out of its city because of comments it made about its supporters. Even today there are still areas of Liverpool where you can not buy the Sun. This is what needs to happen to the NOTW.

Will this happen again? Will the public stand up against this type of thing? I hope so, but I think a few people will go to jail and it will business as normal at the NOTW.

 

My point Earl,which you clearly did get is that its the biggest story about newspapers...blimey there have been several million bigger stories than this...but this is the murky one and the writhing and slithering that is about to follow is going to blow sone ugly people out of the water.
The cover up is the story more than the story and the cover up is now just beginning to unwind...

You mean newspapers lie.?:|

Next you will be telling me they would slit there grannies throat for a good story.

Earl

 

[matt seymour]

I've never bought a copy of NOTW, but would never previously have made a point of not buying it... until now.

It's no secret that journalists use a few underhand tactics (I actually did some journalism training), but hacking the phone of a murder victim is sinking to depths I didn't think possible.

I really hope that people do avoid the NOTW after this revelation. They have gone way too far.

 

[I Love Spreadsheets]

Earl I dont think its the lies that is the problem its the tampering with evidence in a murder case (maybe even 3 cases at this point). There is talk they deleted messages they hacked in to on a murder victims phone.

Matt - I dont mind the underhand tactics to uncover stories. They could be accused of using underhand tactics to uncover who in cricket, football or any other sport who was open to a bribe. They have stayed on the right side of the law for that. This has just trodden over peoples rights and broken countless laws

 

[thebigIAM]

I didn't care when it was just celebs and politicians because I used to think they were fair game. With celebs, no publicity is bad publicity, while politicians should know better than to blab sensitive stuff on a mobile.

But it's just not on to hack the phones of people only because they were the victims of a horrific crime. Even worse to delete material to make way for more messages to be left. Milly, Holly and Jessica, the 7/7 victims ... are they just the tip of the iceberg? Probably. Would I pull my advertising from any publication or channel connected with Murdoch because of this? Hell, yes.

Overturn the BskyB decision, I say. When one individual becomes too powerful, this is where it leads.

 

[Working First Aid]

Like others here, when this story moved from dire celebrity gossip to the downright intrusive and disgusting invasion of victims families, then it moved in to realms that cannot be ignored.

Thankfully, some areas of the media seem to have kept a clean nose throughout so will be willing to report this story as it moves on.

 

Kinda think the behaviour of newspapers ,which has been going on since they were first invented pales into insignificance compared with this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14037963

Earl

 

[ThePublisher]

You can see why advertisers are rushing for the exit. They don't want to be associated with an organisation who are involved in this sort of activity. And seeing that there will inevitably a backlash with people not buying the paper, they're not going to get the exposure for their adverts they are paying for.

I would not like to be selling space or airtime for NOW or BSB at the moment!

 

You can see why advertisers are rushing for the exit. They don't want to be associated with an organisation who are involved in this sort of activity. And seeing that there will inevitably a backlash with people not buying the paper, they're not going to get the exposure for their adverts they are paying for.

I suspect there sales will increase if I am a judge of human nature.

Earl

 

[cjd]

Just tried to hack my wife's phone to see if the tricks still worked. Managed to lock her out of her own voicemail - I'm in big trouble now....

('Hacking' is an overly big word for what they were doing - they just called the mobile phone and when it went to voicemail pressed *. The voicemail then asks for the PIN number and because virtually nobody set it, the defaults codes worked fine.)

 

[I Love Spreadsheets]

Got to agree "hacking" is a strong word for what they were doing - They were just using the standard methods to get in to mailbox and the standard pass codes / pin numbers. No one ever thinks about changing them. But just because it is simple it is still no justification to do what they did.

The really strange thing is that people are not picking up on the fact that the police were on the NoW payroll. The invasion of privacy is bad enough but corrupting the police force?

 

[captaincloser]

I didnt forsee the closure of the paper and what an extreme step to save the BskyB deal. A classic mistake...the Murdochs do not understand how the British work..this story is set to run and run..closing the paper is like throwing petrol on the fire. A Sunday Sun is on the horizon of course.

The James Murdoch interview is a classic but the BskyB deal is now going to crash and burn around Rupert Murdoch and Rebecca Brooks will eventually be sacked despite the heroic (?) efforts to save her....and several people connected to News International and the police will be jailed and the story will continue to engulf Wapping.

168 years of the most famous newspaper in the UK comes crashing down through Murdoch related corruption. This family, like the Maxwells before them think they own the world and fortunately they do not.

 

[captaincloser]

I didnt forsee the closure of the paper and what an extreme step to save the BskyB deal. A classic mistake...the Murdochs do not understand how the British work..this story is set to run and run..closing the paper is like throwing petrol on the fire.

**Sorry, duplicate post**

 

[thebigIAM]

Closing the newspaper is like throwing petrol on the fire.

I absolutely agree. A serious error of judgment. A petulant spitting out of a dummy. The British public don't play the game like the Murdoch family want it, so they take the toy away.

I read in the past few days that the News of the World was loss making. If so, turn it around or close it in the proper manner, but the way this was done was absolutely despicable.

Murdoch is responsible for the culture of behaviour within his organisations. He has also personally enjoyed too much influence over our political process for far too long. Now it looks as if he has too much influence over our police as well. The whole thing stinks.

The only way to rescue the BSkyB deal is for his whole family to butt out of the decision-making process at News International and News Corps and put it in the hands of someone else. As shareholders, they'll still get their wads, won't they?


By the way, Earl, I don't mean to downgrade the plight of people in east Africa. I'm sure it will bubble to the surface of public perception in time.

 

[ThePublisher]

Closing down a newspaper rather than sacking the person in charge at the time? What is the hold that Rebekah Brooks has over the Murdoch's then?

I don't know where you read the NOTW was losing money, every source I've seen on this suggests it was the NOTW making money and the Times/Sunday Times losing it.

I can't see the NOTW readers gravitating to the qualities for their sunday read. If people weren't obsessed with tits and tittle-tattle there wouldn't be a market for the gossip-mongers.

 

[DotNetWebs]

Got to agree "hacking" is a strong word for what they were doing - They were just using the standard methods...

Many people would argue that "hacking" is the wrong term to use regardless of the methods used to commit computer / phone crime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_definition_controversy#Hacker_definition_controversy

Regards

Dotty

 

[captaincloser]

What is the hold that Rebekah Brooks has over the Murdoch's then?

Murdoch has no sentimentality and Brooks is still there because she will be far more dangerous to Murdoch once fired. She has a venomous reputation and will become very high risk once ousted from the company. The Murdochs just don't get it though..she has to join the sacrifices that they are making to save their BSkyB deal which is slipping further away from them every day. She absolutely will be fired or fall on her own sword -the non-Murdoch media will make sure of it.

 

[ThePublisher]

Murdoch has no sentimentality and Brooks is still there because she will be far more dangerous to Murdoch once fired.

This is our feeling. What are the skeletons in the Murdoch's cupboards I wonder.

I could understand the desire to protect her if she was a member of their family, but the lengths they have gone to are too far for the normal business world.

 

[kulture]

One can speculate that the reason that the Murdochs are keeping Rebekah is because she knows something or might say something to scupper the BSkyB deal. The BSkyB deal is clearly the most important thing on their agenda now. This deal must not go through. The government must get off the fence and grow a pair and say no.

 

[Doodle-Noodle]

I didnt forsee the closure of the paper and what an extreme step to save the BskyB deal. A classic mistake...the Murdochs do not understand how the British work..this story is set to run and run..closing the paper is like throwing petrol on the fire.

**Sorry, duplicate post**

Someone somewhere clearly did foresee the closure as the "Sun on Sunday" was trademarked earlier this week before it was announced the NOTW would be closing.

Rebekah Wade (now Brookes) is either fully aware of what was going on with regards to payments to detectives (after all, she would have authorised them) OR she was a wholly incompetent editor who never asked reporters to disclose sources and never questioned the payments she would have had to authorise. Either way, from a logical point of view her position within the News International set up is absolutely untenable .......unless she knows something so massive that it would sink Murdoch's rather large and lucrative ship completely.

 

[cjd]

It occurs to me that NoW may now be open to almost unlimited damages against it.

I wonder if closing the NoW is also an attempt to put up a firewall between it and News Corps. Not heard anyone say so yet.

 

[thebigIAM]

No, the loss making comment was incorrect. My apologies.

 

[thebigIAM]

British Gas picked a good day to bury bad news, didn't it?

 

[webbiz]

It occurs to me that NoW may now be open to almost unlimited damages against it.

I wonder if closing the NoW is also an attempt to put up a firewall between it and News Corps. Not heard anyone say so yet.

Absolutely. It's damage limitation. The paper is profitable, so they would only take that sort of step if they thought the potential for losses were much greater than the profits foregone through closing.

Also maybe to do with Murdoch Junior flexing his power and wanting to show what he can do and that he can act decisively.

 

[captaincloser]

It will be interesting to see what happens when the magnifying glass runs over the Murdochs to see if they are 'fit and proper' people to increase their 39% ownership of BSkyB to 100%.

Very likely that they will be found not 'fit and proper' to own the 39% let alone increase it with their £10billion bid.

Murdoch himself is increasingly acting and looking like a James Bond villian. Expect to see him stroking a cat very soon.

 

[cjd]

Ofcom are announcing this afternoon that they're going to investigate the 'fit and proper' stuff apparently.

 

[JohnnyCash]

They're not even really closing it... pretty much just renaming it. The Sun is going to have a Sunday edition from now on.

 

[captaincloser]

BSB Drops by one billion in 3 days

 

[captaincloser]

"The real reason why Murdoch is not a fit and proper person to control BSkyB is not so much the phone hacking scandal - after all, all the gutter press employs deceitful and underhand methods of trashing people if they think they can get a good headline and sales out of it - it's the disgraceful nepotism earlier this year when he paid out over £400 million of shareholder money to buy his daughter's company from her."

Murdoch here for a bumpy ride next week and my guess is no Sunday Sun and if what some think will be exposed then the Sun itself could lose public support and advertiser support. James Murdoch to end up in court along with quite a number of others. Some in very serious trouble now. Where was the corporate governance through all this slimeball NOW stuff ? They all knew but nobody cared enough to stop the behaviour.

BSB deal to fail completely and possibly the Murdochs driven out of their own companies for good.Its all possible because there are money trails and friends will be hard to find.In the end there is too much at stake for all the other shareholders to save the old man from sinking into the cesspool of his own creation

Rebbekah Brooks will be gone by next weekend-Innocent or guilty she is imploding and unlike Coulson cannot front it out. Other national papers to be dragged into this over coming weeks-particularly the Sun.

A salutory tale of small and big time newspaper corruption. There are many who will ensure this engulfs Murdoch who thinks he is invincible. In fact he's a coward,nepotist and a bully, albeit a very wealthy one and the engulfing will happen over weeks/months...Dirty Digger was a good name for him.

 

[cjd]

Ah, very nice and snidey move by Murdock.

Yesterday he withdrew the offer to sell off Sky News from the deal to buy 100% of Sky. That clause meant it didn't need to be referred to the Monopolies & Mergers Commission. Withdrawing the deal allowed the government to refer it and prevents an investigation by Ofcom into the 'right and proper person' stuff which would have been a global disaster for News Corp.

The investigation by the MMC will take years - they hope everyone will have forgotten how p1ssed off we are with them and they will put the sale of Sky News back into the deal when the MMC makes its recommendations.

Nice.....