Whats the going Rate for a SEO Consultant?

[RBS]

You can always look on freelance sites what price for what service is paid. There are thousands of postings including history.

 

[theaffiliate]

I think that the going rate thing depends on who you hire. Some solicitors charge more than others. Long and short of it if your on page one and your happy with the results and you are making a profit and your happy with the ROI then enjoy the ride.

I don't disagree with making a profit and enjoying the ROI, but I do completely disagree with businesses getting ripped off and paying more than they should be for work which isn't being done.

Relating to your example of solicitors, they are in a heavily regulated industry and this would simply not happen there. They charge by the hour for work completed, which is fully time recorded and billed usually on a 6 minute basis (yes, they will make the most of their time and many are known to use a stopwatch). This is the same principle as an SEO offering services by the hour.

The alternative is a conditional fee arrangement (commonly referred to as no win no fee) where the time is still logged and recorded, but the law firm doesn't get anything from the client unless they get the result they want (technically that's not correct, as costs are normally paid by the losing side, but it's the same principle as an SEO offering pay on performance services).

Many here seem to think it's a nice idea to charge a price regardless of how much work is done, basically whatever you can "get away with". After all, why should a client be paying for your monthly fee if you've done nothing at all that month to earn it? If you're not doing anything in the month, that's wasted time you could be spending improving rankings even further. Why is this not done? Because people enjoy the "free cash".

Do you think clients would be happy if you said to them that they are paying more than someone in a different industry for the exact same service? I don't think so. Would you be happy to get charged more than someone else for any product or service which is the exact same? No.

I don't expect any SEOs to agree with the above, except perhaps a few "reputable" companies (if there even are any here...)

 

[OldWelshGuy]

I hear what you are saying and most 'solicitors' have multiple rate chatrges. i.e
Their rate might be £100 per hour
An assistants rate £50 an hour
A legal execs rate might be £25 per hour
Adminstrative work at £15 per hour.

An SEO will have people working for him doing writing, coding and information gathering work etc how then can a single hour be charged?

e.g my writer spends 8 hours writing, my coder spends 8 hours coding, my grunt researcher spends 8 hours grunt researching from information supplied by myself, who has spent 5 hours preparing, distributing, verifying the various tasks required.

How can a single hourly rate be charged?

I also think that maybe some people are arguing over different matters.

Are you saying that the overall cost for getting a site to #1 for 'wedding venue mytown', should be the same as 'wedding venue'? surely not.

I would agree 100% that the value the SEO (same as any professional) places on their own time should not vary. The rate charged to clients can vary (if you do pro bono work for example) or if you offer a discount for volume etc, but generally it should not alter based on the competitiveness of the niche, as THAT is covered by an increase in time and spend.

e.g.
30 hours @ £100 = £3000
100 hours @ £100 = £10,000

the above illustrates how more difficult niches attract a higher SPEND, and not a higher RATE.

That is just my thoughts, but I know for example the volume my writer can provide. I know roughly how much time other elements take, and will build that in to a fixed price. If for example we are looking at a competitive niche, then unless you are doing at LEAST the same voulme to quality work as competitors, your spend will be wasted as you will go backwards by that very fact.

In short though - cost per unit should not alter, volume of units (and therefore) cost can. At least that is my take on things.

 

[theaffiliate]

In short though - cost per unit should not alter, volume of units (and therefore) cost can. At least that is my take on things.

I completely agree with all your post above, but have only quoted the last line as it sums everything up nicely. My gripe is with the SEOs in this thread thinking it's justifiable to charge different rates to different clients (well, pro-rata anyway). Only a few people, yourself included, seem to agree with my view on this.

With regards to different workers doing different tasks, that's completely understandable and I would expect that to all be calculated according to the time spent by each person (the legal profession is quite a good example for comparison, and having had experience with it, their billing systems are all set up to charge different rates to the client accounts).

Naturally it isn't expected that 'wedding venue mytown' and 'wedding venue' would cost the same to rank, as one will (most likely) have significantly less competition than the other and therefore require less time spent on it. Notwithstanding pro-bono or other charitable work, the general consensus here though seems to be that the value of time is variable, i.e. the one ranking for 'wedding venue' is making far more money and therefore should be charged comparatively more. Unless there is a profit share agreement or joint venture in place, that's definitely not how things should be.

 

[theaffiliate]

To further add to my post, here are a few examples...

when you consider that the average claim gets a minimum of £500 how much would you be willing to pay to be in their position right now.

I am not going to charge a company making millions the same as one making a few thousand.

Value of the work done is exactly how one should charge Unless you enjoy making other people rich whilst living in a tent yourself.

Affiliate, are you saying we should only charge by hours worked?
...
I don't charge an hourly rate or by any quantity.
...
SEO pricing should be all about the returns

 

[Annoying Donkey]

I don't disagree with making a profit and enjoying the ROI, but I do completely disagree with businesses getting ripped off and paying more than they should be for work which isn't being done.

Yesterday I spent in hospital, today a bit of R&R, yet my sites bought in a tidy income. What hourly rate do you think would be fair for me to charge a business for doing something similar?

If you what to pay someone an hourly rate, hire an employee, train him up and give him time to gain the experience necessary.

 

[JohnnyCash]

While you are on "R&R", I'd say a rate of £0 would be perfectly fair

Charge for the time you're working, don't charge when you're not.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

While you are on "R&R", I'd say a rate of £0 would be perfectly fair

Charge for the time you're working, don't charge when you're not.

I'm sure when the MD of Ford has a day in hospital they stop charging for their cars

A business is in business to make a profit. Do you think the cost of your car reflects in any way an hourly rate? How about the insurance policy you took out on it?

 

I don't disagree with making a profit and enjoying the ROI, but I do completely disagree with businesses getting ripped off and paying more than they should be for work which isn't being done.

I suspect you have not much experience of what a good SEO can do for a companies profits.?

Earl

 

[JohnnyCash]

I'm sure when the MD of Ford has a day in hospital they stop charging for their cars

A business is in business to make a profit. Do you think the cost of your car reflects in any way an hourly rate? How about the insurance policy you took out on it?

That comparison makes no sense at all.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

That comparison makes no sense at all.

Neither does running a business on the basis of an hourly rate...

 

[RedEvo]

IMHO there's a difference between the time charged and the value of the time charged.

d

 

[JohnnyCash]

Neither does running a business on the basis of an hourly rate...

It seems to work just fine for accountants, plumbers, building labourers, dog walkers, solicitors, surveyors, gardeners and everyone else offering a service. How exactly is SEO any different?

 

It seems to work just fine for accountants, plumbers, building labourers, dog walkers, solicitors, surveyors, gardeners and everyone else offering a service. How exactly is SEO any different?

Different sums

Labour can be charged by the hour.

When you are selling a product there is virtually no limit to the amount that can be earnt in an hour.

Earl

 

[JohnnyCash]

So if an seo comes in and increases a companies profits from £1m a year to £1.2m a year, and takes 2 full working days to do it how much should he be paid?

Then if you bring in an accountant who manages to save you £200k off your tax bill, should he be paid on a similar sort of deal to the seo?

 

So if an seo comes in and increases a companies profits from £1m a year to £1.2m a year, and takes 2 full working days to do it how much should he be paid?

Then if you bring in an accountant who manages to save you £200k off your tax bill, should he be paid on a similar sort of deal to the seo?

In the main an accountant is nearly always limited in his earning power by the amount of time he has.

An SEO is not.As is any business involved in selling.

Earl

 

[OldWelshGuy]

The way I see it we are still arguing over different things.

An SEO should be paid fact.

the business owner has various options with regard the SEO getting paid, be it flat rate, % of sales (affiliate effectively), shares in company, JV, shared ownership etc.

As long as the business owner and the SEO are both happy then all should be well.

I happen to disagree with the base rate being altered purely because of profit being made. (beyond that which I have already posted)

 

[Annoying Donkey]

It seems to work just fine for accountants, plumbers, building labourers, dog walkers, solicitors, surveyors, gardeners and everyone else offering a service. How exactly is SEO any different?

Yes, the city is full of multi million pound dog walkers... All of those do a job and that's the end of it. An SEO's work continues to earn long after he's done.

An hourly rate worker 'in business' is nothing more than an employee without benefits.

My original point - if I can earn money while not working what is my hourly rate to do the same for a business?

As long as the business owner and the SEO are both happy then all should be well.

Totally agree.

If someone offers to increase a businesses bottom line by 100k pa for the price of 20k, then it matters not how many hours that someone takes. It's a no brainer for the business.

 

[JohnnyCash]

Yes, the city is full of multi million pound dog walkers... All of those do a job and that's the end of it. An SEO's work continues to earn long after he's done.

I think thats a bit of an arrogant attitude... you can make the same argument for dozens of other trades who manage to survive with hourly fees. A good accountants advice and work will be "earning" long after he's been paid and gone. SEO really shouldn't be any different. Its certainly not a skilled enough job to warrant ongoing payment from profits generated.

If someone offers to increase a businesses bottom line by 100k pa for the price of 20k, then it matters not how many hours that someone takes. It's a no brainer for the business.

Well that depends... if you only got £1k of work done it wasn't such a good deal any more was it?

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Well that depends... if you only got £1k of work done it wasn't such a good deal any more was it?

Same argument goes for the hourly worker who sits at his desk twiddling his thumbs looking busy to make up the hours...

Don't know about you, but I've always over delivered...

 

[JohnnyCash]

Don't know about you, but I've always over delivered...

Of course I've not. Anyone who says they have is either lying, been in business for a week, or only targeting stupidly easy niches. You never can tell whats ahead and sometimes jobs go badly for whatever reason - thats unavoidable.

If you think you should be paid a chunk of the upside forever, would it be fair to assume you also are happy to take on the downside also, and write the clients blank cheques in case you harm their rankings?

 

[Annoying Donkey]

If you think you should be paid a chunk of the upside forever, would it be fair to assume you also are happy to take on the downside also, and write the clients blank cheques in case you harm their rankings?

Because I'm paid enough that never happens...

Wonder why you avoid my original question and resort to insults in breach of forum rules...?

 

[Faevilangel]

When you hire an SEO, you're paying for their time and their experience. Anyone can spend 6 hours working on a website but only an experienced SEO can bring results from them 6 hours.

If an SEO was to charge you £1000 for work that brings in £50,000 of extra income, is it a good deal for you?

SEO is an investment, as long as the returns they bring outstrip their fees then it is a good deal for you isn't it?

 

[Ali-v-8]

Is it just me or did theaffiliate flip what got said?
You obviously have a bit an issue with SEO's.

I charge what I want for my time and to be honest if you consider a 40hr working week (and most good SEO's will know they do a lot more) at £25 an hour = £1,000, I am sorry but to me that is not enough.
I want to retire early, and I want to do all my hard work while I can.
My knowledge has took time to build, testing theories and building test sites.
My investment into my knowledge bears fruit when i charge a client, its why we work harder than others.
If you can charge a premium for being Ferrari, then why cant good SEO's charge a premium.
I dont need to justify charging higher rates, just like i dont justify doing free work for people who have been scammed.

My gripe is with the SEOs in this thread thinking it's justifiable to charge different rates to different clients (well, pro-rata anyway).

 

[Annoying Donkey]

I want to retire early, and I want to do all my hard work while I can.

Why wait? Have a read of the 4 hour work week - should be required reading for all REAL businessmen

IMHO you should use your SEO skills elsewhere in conjunction with SEM business. Set everything up to run on autopilot. The truly wealthy own businesses, they don't work in them...

 

[cyberdesignz]

Hi all,

Just wanted to ask what are typically the rates to hire a SEO consultant to do on page and off page optimisation?
Hourly Rate, Monthly and Packages.

Would love to hear from some of the SEO Experts on the forum on what they would normally charge to a average client.

Thanks

I think it depends on client's requirements. Most of the seo firms in subcontinent offer very cheap rates as compared to other countries.

 

[Baz Watkins]

So having read what has been said...and if I read it correctly...

If you are an SEO with loads of experience, you will want either a biggish fee for services rendered, and / or a % of future income.

If I translate that to web design, If I build a website for a £1,000 its actually £1,000 to begin with, there will be a residual payment every year that website is in existance, and then if I take that further, even if the website isn't in existance I should still get paid every year because I built the website and its not my fault that its no longer active.

I may be flippant, but when I get a bag of chips, I don't expect to keep paying for those chips long after they've passed through me...

You do a service, you get paid for the work done, the only way you should make money of that service after the fact is if you continue to work on the project for a defined period of time. If you are making money on a job done years ago, the business that agreed to that should reconsider that agreement.

 

[caobingda]

i need seo for my website too

 

[Ali-v-8]

So we are looking at the Polish Plasterer scenario.
The do the same job but cheaper.
Good reason to use them I suppose.....Until you have a problem.

I know a number of companies that use Indian outsourced work and although some do get a good result a majority ring and tell you of the nightmare they are having.

 

[JohnnyCash]

So we are looking at the Polish Plasterer scenario.
The do the same job but cheaper.
Good reason to use them I suppose.....Until you have a problem.

I know a number of companies that use Indian outsourced work and although some do get a good result a majority ring and tell you of the nightmare they are having.

I won't mention the url again as I don't think it was fair it was posted in the first place.... but assuming that loans site was a client site (no idea if it was or if you owned it). How much would you say is fair to be paid for that, assuming you get it page 1 for all those phrases with your kamikaze tactics?

 

[Ali-v-8]

Sorry Baz, but I'm not wanting to be misquoted.
I charge according to the deal put on the table.
If the deal is a percentage or JV or simple a bag of chips scenario, it is discussed and laid bare at the onset of the campaign.
When you mention websites its a fixed item. it may get plugins or addons that can be quoted for at a fixed predictable rate.
SEO on the other hand varies.
I would not charge my national loan client the same as my local skip hire client.

The skip hire was done dusted and happy in a matter of weeks.
The loan company is a pain in the buttski and requires constant monitoring blah blah blah.
Skip guy spent £2,000 for everything. Website hosting and SEO.
Would any one charge a loan company the same.

If you are an SEO with loads of experience, you will want either a biggish fee for services rendered, and / or a % of future income.

If I translate that to web design, If I build a website for a £1,000 its actually £1,000 to begin with, there will be a residual payment every year that website is in existance, and then if I take that further, even if the website isn't in existance I should still get paid every year because I built the website and its not my fault that its no longer active.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

I may be flippant, but when I get a bag of chips, I don't expect to keep paying for those chips long after they've passed through me...

I seem to remember one of the members of Queen wrote one of their biggest hits on the back of a fag packet on their way to a concert... Does that mean they should have given that song away for free?

Your confusing your job with a business.

I know a few SEOs who make a local business website, rank it and then rent it for a monthly fee. It makes sense to the business because the monthly fee is substantially less than building and ranking their own site and the leads they get are worth more than they pay in rental. Do a few of these and you've got your residual income. If you're really clever you might even outsource the work to people like yourself who charge a one off fee to build the site

Stop thinking in terms of a job and start thinking in terms of a business... You must offer a service or product that people (or businesses) want at a price that they see value and that makes you a profit. The higher the profit the better. If both parties are satisfied then all is well with the world and it matters not how many or how few hours you put into it.

 

[Baz Watkins]

I agree with you, if you are constantly monitoring something then thats fine its just a low cost retainer. As long as the contract states that, then no one would have an issue.

The client signs for the work to be done, and at the end of that the client can then sign a new contract for ongoing management a x hours a week. I do the same with website management.

The only issue I see is charging when no work is done, if you charge £25 a week for 1 hour and you don't need to do anything one week, but have to spend 2 hours the next it balances out. The problem for me arises when someone charges for that hour and does nothing and the next week charges extra for the additional hour, then thats a bit bad in my book.

Sorry Baz, but I'm not wanting to be misquoted.
I charge according to the deal put on the table.
If the deal is a percentage or JV or simple a bag of chips scenario, it is discussed and laid bare at the onset of the campaign.
When you mention websites its a fixed item. it may get plugins or addons that can be quoted for at a fixed predictable rate.
SEO on the other hand varies.
I would not charge my national loan client the same as my local skip hire client.

The skip hire was done dusted and happy in a matter of weeks.
The loan company is a pain in the buttski and requires constant monitoring blah blah blah.
Skip guy spent £2,000 for everything. Website hosting and SEO.
Would any one charge a loan company the same.

 

[Faevilangel]

SEO and website design / development are the same in a quoting stage, the client is given a fee for the project plus any monthly costs for additional services (hosting, article building etc).

An example of both is below:

Ali-V8 charges £15k to put a solicitors website on page 1 of Google for injury claims, and then £300 for on going article building and articles every month

I charge a client £900 for an ecommerce website and then £100 a month for web hosting and 2 hours maintenance a month (adding new content, amendments to site etc)

Why are people getting all wound up by SEO charging more for the work they do / don't do?

If the costs are outlined at the start and they achieve the goals set by the client then shouldn't they be paid for their service even if they did less work than they envisaged?

I may charge a client for 2 hours to make amendments to a website but if it takes 1 hour 59mins, I am not likely to offer to refund £1 cos it took me 1 minute less than I charged for. You're buying into my experience and not just my time.

 

[Baz Watkins]

I agree with this as well, offering a defined service at a lower cost but over a longer term is a standard practice. As I mentioned in my previous post, the only issue is when a service is paid for and no service is given.

The building and ranking of a website and then its monthly rental is fine, it saves the client hassle, and the client buys into the benefits. But charging for work that isnt done is wrong. The rental charge is just that, the service has been done in advance, and the cost of service has been spread over a defined timeline.

Its when a service provider wants payment long after the service has been rendered and the cost of service repayed that I have a problem with.

If its a defined time and that comes to an end thats ok, you just renogiate a managment fee based on expected management hours, and the process continues.

I know a few SEOs who make a local business website, rank it and then rent it for a monthly fee. It makes sense to the business because the monthly fee is substantially less than building and ranking their own site and the leads they get are worth more than they pay in rental. Do a few of these and you've got your residual income. If you're really clever you might even outsource the work to people like yourself who charge a one off fee to build the site

Stop thinking in terms of a job and start thinking in terms of a business... You must offer a service or product that people (or businesses) want at a price that they see value and that makes you a profit. The higher the profit the better. If both parties are satisfied then all is well with the world and it matters not how many or how few hours you put into it.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

But charging for work that isnt done is wrong.

I'm not arguing with you there. I'm arguing that you are not in any way restricted to charging by the number of hours you put into something. The only criteria is, are you offering more value than you are charging...

Another example, Microsoft purchased msdos and licensed it to IBM and made a fortune. It wasn't even a good OS, there were far better ones around. To me that was good business. If they'd had the mentality that they could only charge by the number of hours they put in, we wouldn't be blessed with windows today (Linux rules OK!)

 

[Ali-v-8]

Actually i charge more but as you said so long as the client is happy.
If they dont the results they want they dont pay.

 

[JohnnyCash]

And how much do they pay if the kamikaze link building sends their site down the toilet?

 

If I translate that to web design, If I build a website for a £1,000 its actually £1,000 to begin with, there will be a residual payment every year that website is in existance, and then if I take that further, even if the website isn't in existance I should still get paid every year because I built the website and its not my fault that its no longer active.

.

Different senario.

A website is worth nothing unless it produces income or results.

Hence why SEO's can charge an ongoing fee for ongoing sales.E.t.c.

Earl

 

[JohnnyCash]

Different senario.

A website is worth nothing unless it produces income or results.

Hence why SEO's can charge an ongoing fee for ongoing sales.E.t.c.

Earl

I'm not even sure if you really believe that, or you're just trying to convince yourself

What is the difference between a very high end SEO working for a few weeks to increase ongoing revenue, and asking for a cut of that revenue, and a very high end designer creating a brilliant design that converts better, and asking for a similar cut of ongoing money?

I would say the difference is absolutely nothing.