When commissioning a website...

[Working First Aid]

Hello all,

I will soon be commissioning a website design. Before I do though, I just wanted to find out where I stand in regards to not liking the designs I am presented with.

Basically, I am that I am going to get locked in to a contract where I am unhappy with the product. Is it normal to have various stages of design , where I can say at each that the direction things are going in aren't what I was looking for?

I understand that the whole reason I would be utilising a specialist is because they have expertise in the field that I don't, and that their designs will usually reflect this. However, as the website is essentially going to be the front to the business, I want to make sure I won't be expected to pay huge sums of money even if I say at the initial phases that I am not happy?

I have a feeling I made that question far more complicated than it needed to be

Cheers!

 

[garysumpter]

Hi there,

It all depends who you go with. Some designers have strict terms, others are flexible. For example we work until our clients are happy, we never just say NO, enough is enough.

As long as a designer gets a thorough enough brief and understands what the client needs, there shouldn't be a need for too many revisions anyway.

Gary

 

[DesignerNick]

What we usually do is send you a form to fill out which helps us get an idea of what sort of design you would like.

We would then do a mock design while working with the client and work on the design until the client is happy with it.

We get the client to sign it off so we have it in writing that they are happy with the design, if when we have then developed the site and they don't like the design then we are happy to change the design but the time will then be added onto their invoice.

You should get a check list of the various steps and then sign them off as you go, that way both you and the company know that you are 100% happy with them but don't sign until you are.

 

[DesignerNick]

Hi there,

It all depends who you go with. Some designers have strict terms, others are flexible. For example we work until our clients are happy, we never just say NO, enough is enough.

With that though, you can get clients and projects where it ends up taking you 3 or 4 times as long as planned because of a picky client who changes their mind every 2 minutes.

 

[Parrot Hosting]

I think the above is true but, often when clients don't actually know what they want, or cannot define things properly until they see it in action it is hard to tie them down. I start off with 2-3 templates to give the customer an idea and then once one is chosen work dynamically with them to give them as much as possible allowing for alterations along the way.

The biggest problem is a client who sees all the flashy wizzi bits on other sites and wants them all on his site regardless.. we send them to other companies.

 

[Working First Aid]

Thanks guys, I feel less worried now - process seems logical and end user friendly.

I am certainly not after 'flashy whizzy bits', just a well designed site with a CMS and built from the ground up with SEO in mind.

I'm currently working on the brief/content - so it will be at least another month before I'm good to go anyhow - at which point I will send out some tenders and see who is interested.

Thanks again!

 

[anthonylane13]

It's a valid and common concern which you are correct to address.

First of all, it's important to choose a competent and reputable designer whose body of work speaks for itself. It's also important to provide (in person or in writing) a detailed brief that explains in extended detail how your business works, who your customers are, what the focus of the website is etc etc.

Any designer worth their salt will ask for this information in the initial stages, usually prior to drawing up a contract.

The client / designer relationship involves a fair bit of trust, even though a contract is in place. The designer needs to trust that the client understands what they want from their website, and that they're going to give it the attention it deserves, particularly when it comes to providing content, and knowing their own mind. The client needs to trust the designer that the work will be completed on time and within budget, and that it will reflect the brief down to the details.

I think the right designer will dispel your fears at the first meeting. If not, maybe you've not found the right one yet.

 

[JamesM]

It depends on the design company.. before starting my own, the business I worked for would only allow one design, with minor modifications.

 

[DesignerNick]

I think the above is true but, often when clients don't actually know what they want, or cannot define things properly until they see it in action it is hard to tie them down. I start off with 2-3 templates to give the customer an idea and then once one is chosen work dynamically with them to give them as much as possible allowing for alterations along the way.

The biggest problem is a client who sees all the flashy wizzi bits on other sites and wants them all on his site regardless.. we send them to other companies.

Very true. I think the first meeting / telephone call is vital to get as much information out of the client as possible.

I guess from a designer's point of view it is down to common sense (is the client taking the michael getting what they can for free or are they genuine) but it is best to have a check list that gets ticked and signed off along the way.

I know it sounds like a lot of hassle but it does let you know where you both stand and it lets you know what is needed from you (content, photos etc) so that you don't hold the process up in any way.

 

[Baz Watkins]

We do what everyone else does, but in a slightly different way. We don't design websites, we switched over to using CMS templates instead (Joomla, Wordpress, Magento). Why spend all that time coming up with designs, when someone somewhere has already come up with a design and format that works. So we use templates which took someone time and money to design, and then amend it to the clients needs.

With so many template variations out there, its fairly easy to find a template with the right layout / skeleton to meet the customers needs. Once we have agreed on the changes, we go ahead and start work.

Like may other firms we are flexible on design changes, but like all firms we will charge for any drastic alterations.

It isn't often we will get a potential client who knows exactly what they want so part of the prelimenary process is about getting as big an understanding of what they need and want from the website. Once that is done the rest is fairly straightforward.

 

[DesignerNick]

Why spend all that time coming up with designs, when someone somewhere has already come up with a design and format that works. So we use templates which took someone time and money to design, and then amend it to the clients needs.

True, but it just means that a client is paying for a site that looks like 100's of others on the internet.

Templates are very much a pet hate.

 

[JamesM]

I guess it comes down to cost, and what the customer expects.

If they are paying a low rate for a website, sure I can understand using a template design.

If they are paying several hundred, then it should be bespoke. Just my opinion.. different folks.. different strokes.

And more importantly, if your customers are happy with what they receive, job done.

 

[Baz Watkins]

True, but it just means that a client is paying for a site that looks like 100's of others on the internet.

Templates are very much a pet hate.

That may be so, but if like us, you deal with the bread and butter end of web design / development they save time and money. I like bespoke designs, we still offer such a service, but to be honest most of the time people what something that is light, cheap (ish) and online quick. And for that you can't bet a CMS template.

To be honest as long as your upfront about the use of templates, most of the time the client when asked doesn't really care, all they want to know is can it be built for this price and be online by this deadline.

Web design is no longer just the preserve of skilled designers who lavishly spend hours coming up with a beautiful design, it's all about building it quick, clean and cheap, especially in todays climate.

Don't get me wrong, people will always pay for something special, something specific, but unfortunately in the time I've been trading, not many clients have come attached to a £1,500+ wad of cash.

Also if you look at templates from an hourly paid perspective, and you charge say £25 per hour, you can add at least £500 to the price overall. Many people won't pay £500 all in, especially when you start moving away from built up areas with larger business populations.

People don't see the benefit, they just see the cost these days. So in respect to that I use templates and a CMS, whilst building up the service offer in other ways such as basic SEO, hosting, domain name etc.

One final thing, there are many, many big firms out there charging a few thousand per go for building on Joomla, Drupal, Wordpress or Magento, so even as we speak the attitude to template use is changing, now designers charge the same price for template adjustment as they do for bespoke design.

 

[Rob S]

"They don't know what they want - but they know what they don't want when they see it"

The above can be used to describe many commissioners of website and other design work.

I have done a few websites - I tend to ask customers to have a look at my work and also have a look at other websites and make a note of any features they particularly like.

 

[stephan42]

I believe it is as simple as how much you are paying for the service. The less you are paying for the overall package the more likely you are to be locked into the design they come up for you. Its a matter of time that is spent on the design phase. The agency I work price at the higher end of the scale but are very transparent with the process of developing a design for its clients and have a lengthy process of developing a brief for the design unit.
One thing to watch out for is being offered a handful of designs for your website to pick from, this screams to be that firstly they have not understood what your requirements are and also that the design is based on a template.

 

[Baz Watkins]

I guess it comes down to cost, and what the customer expects.

If they are paying a low rate for a website, sure I can understand using a template design.

If they are paying several hundred, then it should be bespoke. Just my opinion.. different folks.. different strokes.

And more importantly, if your customers are happy with what they receive, job done.

A few hundred, should be bespoke. Ok lets break that down, I charge £25 an hour (I'm at the lower end of hourly rates), but my cheap packages start at £260 to £400, mid level is £875+, business level is £1400 up, and bespoke, is well bespoke. The cheapest bespoke website I could build would still equal to 3 days work or £575, and that would be for a blog or microsite. Who'se going to pay 2 times as much for a 4 page website when my cheap off the shelf package price is half that.

It doesn't matter how you design, you still build cost in, so if you charge £200 for a website, you only spent 8 hours on it at my rate. Thats fine for something basic, but if you factor that rate into anything more complex the cost has to go up, or you can't run a business.

My basic package is built on cost as the primary element, its cheap, but its also fairly basic - I use a simple template skeleton which I adjust and adjust depending on clients needs, there is also little or no content involvement at my end (other than basic seo). But it will still take a day to build, adapt and get online.

My basic package is built for a price point, as are all my other packages, that way a prospective client knows upfront what they get for the price, and more importantly what they don't get.

What you charge for a website is what you charge, you may well be able to build bespoke for a few hundred pounds, but I can almost guarantee most people are either building off a template or reusing an existing design for that price.

Anyway thats my thoughts, no doubt many will disagree.

 

[Giggleberries]

It will depend on your designers. Understandably, web designers will have some difficult customers to work with who continually change their minds and at the end of the day time costs money.

Consequently, it is understandable to ensure clear boundaries are set and my designer allowed 3 to 5 alteration to the concepts they produced.

At the end of the day it comes down to providing a clear brief and ensuing you use a recommended designer that will accurately interpret your brief

 

[Faevilangel]

As everyone has pointed out, it will be down to each designer individually. Ask prospective tenders about their processes. Most will be happy to talk through with you to give you an idea on the time scale and payment structures etc.

 

[Working First Aid]

Thanks again all - Feeling a lot happier about the whole process now!