Pay on results SEO?

[monkey_tennis]

Does this kind of thing exist?

I can't afford any good SEO, so does anyone take payment upon results?

If so, how does the system work?

 

Does this kind of thing exist?

I can't afford any good SEO, so does anyone take payment upon results?

If so, how does the system work?

Only good SEO's will do pay on results.

can vary from a price per sale to a percentage of your business.

Earl

 

[willitbe]

.

Yes, a company I have stumbled across do: www.eazytiger.net .

Maybe worth checking out.

 

[david64]

Only good SEO's will do pay on results.

Are you refering to pay on results or equity deals?

I'd say the opposite. If an SEO is established and provides a good service, why would they be interested in doing free work? They could easily be working £20-300 / hour, depending on reputation.

Pay on results does exist, but it is bottom of the market.

 

[willitbe]

Pay on results does exist, but it is bottom of the market.

Hi David. I have in the past worked on a P.O.R.B before, admittedly for a friend. But it worked, he saw returns, I saw payment from those returns.

I was confident enough in what I was doing to enable me to do it. I think you would have to be very careful in who you take on but as it was a friend, I didn't have too many concerns.

It comes down to ability, I said I could do it, I did it and I got paid. It all boils down to the smoke and mirrors adage again, if you are all smoke and mirrors then you ain't doing it for love nor money, if you know what you are doing and you have something in place to guarantee payment, then why not?

 

[david64]

Pay on results does exist, but it is bottom of the market.

Hi David. I have in the past worked on a P.O.R.B before, admittedly for a friend. But it worked, he saw returns, I saw payment from those returns.

I was confident enough in what I was doing to enable me to do it. I think you would have to be very careful in who you take on but as it was a friend, I didn't have too many concerns.

It comes down to ability, I said I could do it, I did it and I got paid. It all boils down to the smoke and mirrors adage again, if you are all smoke and mirrors then you ain't doing it for love nor money, if you know what you are doing and you have something in place to guarantee payment, then why not?

Hi,

I'd also do it for a friend if it was something easy. In fact I'd probably do it for free, but picture working on a competitive campaign that would otherwise be priced at around £10,000. Would you work on that for free in the hope that you might get paid in the end?

From what I've seen people offering pay on results are doing it for terms like [plumber in Stoke], which are pretty bottom of the market as paid work anyway. I can't see any companies offering pay on results for proper campaigns - it would be ridiculous. If you are good, you should have enough work on to not have to think about working for pay on results.

If it came to working pay on results, I'd get a job on a building site instead

 

[willitbe]

Hi,

I'd also do it for a friend if it was something easy. In fact I'd probably do it for free, but picture working on a competitive campaign that would otherwise be priced at around £10,000. Would you work on that for free in the hope that you might get paid in the end?

From what I've seen people offering pay on results are doing it for terms like [plumber in Stoke], which are pretty bottom of the market as paid work anyway. I can't see any companies offering pay on results for proper campaigns - it would be ridiculous. If you are good, you should have enough work on to not have to think about working for pay on results.

If it came to working pay on results, I'd get a job on a building site instead

Agreed a 10 grand campaign would raise some eyebrows in regards Pay as you go SEO. But let's be honest, there aren't many on here who get the chance to embark on such a voyage!.

With regards being good, Yes I agree, but as with all things successful, they grow, suddenly costs are higher, clients are fewer and needs must!.

David, May I also point out that builders get paid on results too, mainly being a week in hand!

Not many people in this world get paid before doing the work...Only those who hide behind a myriad of mystical mumbo jumbo and flim flam, because let's be honest again, that's how most "SEO's" operate!

 

[david64]

But let's be honest, there aren't many on here who get the chance to embark on such a voyage!.

Yes, the work is hierarchical, with there being much more small contracts and people with small budgets than there are with big budgets. However, if you are an agency, your clients need at least £10K / year to make it worth dealing with them. If you are an agency with £250,000+ in wages, rates, rent, taxes, service charges, you are not going to do pay on results because anyone who thinks you should work like that with those overheads obviously doesn't take you seriously.

If you go back 6+ years there were more people offering pay on results SEO because SERPs were less competitive and search engines were easier to manipulate without merit. Now the only people who seem to be offering pay on results are people who offer it for the sort of terms that only require a few title tag tweaks or the odd crap-link - bottom of the market; or for friends of course

 

[Codefixer]

I'd be very wary of doing SEO work for free.


Then there’s always the risk that the client or the web designer retains control of the site and makes unneccessary changes, overwrites a file, removes text and internal body copy links, gives the site a makeover without prior consultation or doesn’t listen to your suggestions. Is the SEO to be held responsible for the web designer’s decision to create a new file name, or go with a new CMS with different file extensions while leaving the SEO in the dark.

If work is carried out for a friend for Free, will they value the work that has been carried out. Will they be as motivated to provide content and work with your suggestions as they would if they had valued the work and invested in it.

A clearly defined bonus structure might be a better way to go.

 

[Tin]

To the OP.

I know it's an over-simplification but when was the last time you filled up your trolley at Tesco's and told them you couldn't afford to pay them until after you'd eaten the food and then decided whether you liked it or not?

Having said that, Pay on Results SEO does exist but I only know of two individuals (decent seo's) that offer this and you're whole business model (including your offering) is likely to be under fairly strong scrutiny before they consider offering their services on that basis. Due diligence would be a major part of the seo's appraisal of your business model and if he's any good, he'll go through your business model in fine detail, if he's not much good then he's likely to overlook a load of things that might be mission critical so when he gets you the rankings, you don't get the sales you expected! It's at this point that both of you hit problems.

The other thing that strikes me is that you said in your opening post that "I can't afford any good SEO" and this to me suggests that you may have little faith in your product because if you 'knew' you had a solid offering which would make money then you'd find the money for seo. Maybe that's an over-simplification too?

I worked on the POR basis from 1996 to early 2004 and whilst it worked reasonably well then, it's something I dropped and wouldn't go back to except in very special circumstances.

However, if it's the only way you can go forward with your business I wish you every success and hope you get sorted in the near future.

Ray

 

but picture working on a competitive campaign that would otherwise be priced at around £10,000. Would you work on that for free in the hope that you might get paid in the end?

Well if you are hoping to get paid. Then I would suggest you have not used due dillegence in your investigation of the proposed business as to its viability.?

Unlike quite a lot of SEO practitioners ,a profit or equity sharing SEO will make sure that the business can support all parties concerned before taking on the prospect.

P.S when was the last time you told a client you charged £3,200 per day and got the job.?



Earl

 

[david64]

P.S when was the last time you told a client you charged £3,200 per day and got the job.?

Never. That is more enterprise level - gambling, mobiles, HR etc. There are people who would charge more than that too:

http://www.clientsidesem.com/seo-sem-services/
http://www.seomoz.org/dp/consulting

Depends where you are on the pecking order :|

 

Never. That is more enterprise level - gambling, mobiles, HR etc. There are people who would charge more than that too:

http://www.clientsidesem.com/seo-sem-services/
http://www.seomoz.org/dp/consulting

Depends where you are on the pecking order :|

I did say told the client and got the job.

 

[lady Cleaner]

I would like to know where you learn SEO - properly.

I have tried various free courses online ( I know - if they are free can't be much good) but it was also to understand it as I have paid a firm, supposely to experts in their field but were rubbish - things they told me to do or change I already knew.Things they said that they had done,definately hadn't.This was for another website that I run and has nothing to do with my cleaning business.
Plus the main thing was they didn't improve sales , which after all at the end of the day is the aim! All in all a very disapponting experience.
I also paid them a large deposit,because of their shoddy work I refused to pay anymore.

With the free SEO lessons - again they were all different in techniques.Quite confusing.

It seems to me, one person's concept of how you SEO a website is quite different to another person doing SEO on a website.

I also have read on many, many forums - other people asking about SEO help and advice and the so called experts end up argueing amongst themselves.

I definately would not pay upfront but would come to some written agreement / contract that both parties agreed on and if there was a vast improvement in sales then yes that prooves the person knows how to do their job.

I would be interested to hear other peoples views.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Safe to say that any SEO's reading this will have discounted working with you as you have not re-visited a critical thread you have started.

 

[JohnnyCash]

But evidently not quite so careful on the dates of threads you spam your offer on.

 

[SpencyCWS]

Speaking as a relatively successful SEO company, I have never considered offering pay as you go results and never will.

If you beleive in what you are doing and have many testimonials and good case studies, you should not have to prove yourself to others by offering a pay on results service. I do not commit any of my clients to a contract, meaning that they can use us for a couple of months and then move onwards should they wish.

In two years our retention rate has been brilliant, people do leave, but generally come back after a break.

I started with one client and now have 30 or so monthly and there is just no reason why I would work my company on a pay on results basis.

If you know you are doing a good job, people should pay for it.

I would never go to a mechanic and pay them per mile for fixing my car, as they offer skills I do not have.

It is hard enough getting them to pay as it is sometimes

 

[dubOnline]

I used to offer this but stopped as it appeared like a con would you believe! I used to ofer no win no fee to the first page of google depending on the niche. If you let me know the site and desired keywords we can potentially go from there. PM me

 

Speaking as a relatively successful SEO company, I have never considered offering pay as you go results and never will.

If you beleive in what you are doing and have many testimonials and good case studies, you should not have to prove yourself to others by offering a pay on results service. I do not commit any of my clients to a contract, meaning that they can use us for a couple of months and then move onwards should they wish.

In two years our retention rate has been brilliant, people do leave, but generally come back after a break.

I started with one client and now have 30 or so monthly and there is just no reason why I would work my company on a pay on results basis.

If you know you are doing a good job, people should pay for it.

I would never go to a mechanic and pay them per mile for fixing my car, as they offer skills I do not have.

It is hard enough getting them to pay as it is sometimes

Now about being in a position where you do not have to work to get paid.?

Or is that not attractive for you.?

Earl

 

[SpencyCWS]

Still trying to find out how to do that !

 

[thetime22]

Being an SEO guy myself theres not much in it for an SEO guy with this kind of approach.. similar to a lawyer that you pay once you have won.

 

Still trying to find out how to do that !

Simple enough if you are an SEO and take equity in companies instead of upfront payment.

Earl

 

[SpencyCWS]

Simple enough if you are an SEO and take equity in companies instead of upfront payment.

Earl

We do have shares in some of the companies we work with, some should come off in the future.

But, with offices and people to pay, we have to work with most on a monthly basis.

Some of the people we work with are amazing companies who you do think "I wish I had that idea".

 

[unet]

depends on the keyword or keywords you wish to rank on.

generic terms together with new domains can go one way or another. I have taken many jobs without payment but have quoted 50% - 75% more than a monthly payment to reflect the "risk" and investment we would have to put in

 

Being an SEO guy myself theres not much in it for an SEO guy with this kind of approach.. similar to a lawyer that you pay once you have won.

Not quite as if you have equity in a company the payments go on year after year.

Earl

 

[JohnnyCash]

Not quite as if you have equity in a company the payments go on year after year.

Earl

Id be worried you end up with a cut of nothing though.

If a web based company can't afford to pay for a core service like SEO from the start, then they are underfunded and a candidate for going bust surely...

If that is not the case, then why are they giving up a %? There are plenty great seo's willing to work for a set fee and let them keep all the upside for themselves...

 

Id be worried you end up with a cut of nothing though.

If a web based company can't afford to pay for a core service like SEO from the start, then they are underfunded and a candidate for going bust surely...

If that is not the case, then why are they giving up a %? There are plenty great seo's willing to work for a set fee and let them keep all the upside for themselves...

1 ) Due diligence makes sure you do not end up with nothing.

2 ) I only work for a share of a company,so no choice if they want me.

3 ) Are you sure about that.?

Earl

 

[JohnnyCash]

Yes I'm sure about it...

Anyone could speak to Blogstorm or Bronco for example, and get a quote per month. Both capable of high end seo without giving them a percentage of your company.

What makes your seo so amazing that its worth giving up a percentage for if they could afford to hire someone up front?

That proposition really only makes sense from the business owners point of view if they either can't afford to pay you right now, or the full business is a speculative gamble and they have no idea if it'll even work or not, imo.

 

[seoexpert]

I'll take onboard any project than wish to pay upon results.

 

[RedEvo]

Whenever we are asked I advise that the payment must be held in ESCROW etc etc and I never hear from them again. In my experience PFP SEO is almost always sought after by people with no money. A bit like the people who want to offer coders equity in their amazing new game changing web app instead of paying for their expertise.

d

 

[JohnnyCash]

Usually the best way to deal with them is stop them half way through their sales pitch and say "well if its such an amazing idea, you should just pay me up front and you can keep all the profits". Like you say, you never hear back from them after that

 

[RadiusBPO]

I quite like POR SEO as way of working. Normally because I am left alone to do what I need and don't get chased up for reports.

I did complete quite a large job though last year for asbestos keywords which took a lot of time and effort, but on getting the results the client is nowhere to be seen and is overseas so too much effort to chase.


I also experience better signup rates with services for POR. But I have been told in the past I cannot guarantee results so much be a scammer... Even though they only had to pay once results are achieved??!?

 

What makes your seo so amazing that its worth giving up a percentage for if they could afford to hire someone up front?

That proposition really only makes sense from the business owners point of view if they either can't afford to pay you right now, or the full business is a speculative gamble and they have no idea if it'll even work or not, imo.

I use the right shampoo.

The equity share being sucessfull depends on several things.

1 The SEO's ability to spot a winning product/s.

2 There ability to promote the site/s products.

3 There ability to assess the people they will be working with.


The last probably being the thing most likely to cause of failure for people who have tried this route.

A persons ability to pay me or not is not a consideration I look at.

There character most certainly is.

Earl

 

[unet]

It comes down to to keywords or keywords and difficulty in attaining 1st page etc.

A balance between paying the overheads, food, mortgage and life. I dont think most seo companies will be working on a project for lets say a year ona generic term without there being paid monies at some stage before that year is up.

I can understand longtail and less competitive search terms getting ranked first and payment afterwards.

I try to strike a balance somewhere in the middle. It should be more of a results based industry as there are too many fly by nights offering "consultancy" that no nothing about seo and charge stupid money and then make a dash to cash their cheque.

lots of talkers and not enough "doers" ( if there is such a word, or is it my spelling )

 

It comes down to to keywords or keywords and difficulty in attaining 1st page etc.

A balance between paying the overheads, food, mortgage and life. I dont think most seo companies will be working on a project for lets say a year ona generic term without there being paid monies at some stage before that year is up.

Not sure I could survive a year without food.

A bit more involved than keywords.

Earl

 

[unet]

Not sure I could survive a year without food.

A bit more involved than keywords.

Earl

exactly, there are generic keywords that take this time to rank and I dont think an seo business could do that type of work without getting paid.

Earl, I think you know what I mean about keywords - and I only wish it was

the thing with seo, there is plenty of work out there as thousands of new sites spring up daily - on the flip side its now harder as those sites then become competition.

 

[JohnnyCash]

1 The SEO's ability to spot a winning product/s.

2 There ability to promote the site/s products.

3 There ability to assess the people they will be working with.

Well if you're the one finding profitable products in the first place, then ranking them, you're not only doing seo for a cut. If you're doing the bulk of the work, why do you need a partner instead of an employee? Or has the roles just reversed and its you taking on a partner because you can't afford the up front cost of hiring normally?

99% of the time a deal like this is proposed, its a suckers proposition for one of the parties...

 

[john resident]

This wont be popular with the SEo guys on here but...

I've used a number of SEO companies from elance.com which is paid upon results and held in an Escrow account - the funds are then released once agreed milestones are met.

I wouldnt consider paying upfront for SEO or offer an equity stake I'm afraid.

 

[JohnnyCash]

I've used rentacoder (similar to elance) for a bunch of stuff and its okay as long as things go smoothly, having to use the disputes and escrow is an absolute nightmare.

Its okay if you tell someone to fix a broken php script, as he either fixes it or he doesn't, and the arbitrator can easily tell the difference. If you tell someone to build 100 "quality" backlinks or use "ethical" seo or something, when it all goes wrong both parties will be arguing they are correct and you're stuck.

Spent ages arguing with rentacoder over what constitutes "native English quality content" and it wasn't fun.

If you're not willing to pay up front (or at least sign a contract agreeing to pay £x deposit and the rest at certain points) you're only going to get low quality work I think.

 

[Esk247]

I think Earl is talking on a level above what many of you are assuming.

He isn't talking of someone coming on to the forums and saying 'Hey guys, i'm going to build a website..like Facebook right but better..yeah..who can do SEO for me though cos i only have a Wordpress site init bruv'

Earl means a dedicated business setup where they are looking for direct results from a trusted SEO expert, the business will have a directorship established, a complete and sustainable business plan and funding for production and some marketing but not enough at the startup stage for a full blown SEO assault or they are not totally sure about whether SEO is right for them and they enlist the assistance of an SEO expert to prove, using previous results, that SEO may well be a great marketing tool for them.

Think business meetings and suits rather than googlemail accounts from a forum.