Cashless society getting nearer

[Consistency]

Debit cards for the first time are now a more popular payment method than cash.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Bu..._Cash_And_Credit_Cards,_Payments_Council_Says

That is a long link.

 

[DesignerNick]

Cash might become a thing of the past. I don't mind it really as I usually don't carry much cash but have a little stash for when I get a takeaway or something

Up until this season for about 3 or 4 years Coventry Football Club had a cashless stadium (now it is only about 75% cashless) to get rid of queuing at half time for a beer.

The way I see it is that I have to get a tenner out for something that is £6, that is 4 pound coins that will then be spent on pointless stuff.

 

I did not realise the recession was that bad.

So that would mean that money ceased to exist except as electronic signals.

Earl

 

[Consistency]

I did not realise the recession was that bad.

So that would mean that money ceased to exist except as electronic signals.

Earl

We are slowly but surely heading towards a time where currency will be exactly that - electronic transactions.

As most of us know whatever technological means the banks and controllers come up with, it is not yeas before they are outsmarted and need something else.

This is cat and mouse with payment methods and will not stop until we can not buy or sell without a microchip implanted into the forehead or the hand. This will be scanned as we are now seeing being introduced the scanning of a mobile phone as a payment method for something quick such as a sandwich.

 

[movietub]

Maybe, just maybe, all those little corner shops will accept now that it's no longer ok to penalise card users with a 50p charge or minimum spend of £10!!!!

a) if the charge actually costs 50p then it's because the muppet that owns the business is too useless to pick up the phone and negotiate rates.

b) Why charge people at all? If they didn't carry cash the first time, they won't the second time they're near your shop - so they won't be back! they will go the extra distance to the petrol station which won't faff around at all. What they're basically saying is that your custom is worth less than a 10-20p charge max.

Rant over - but I'll be glad to see the back of card hating antiquated local shops.

 

[Consistency]

Maybe, just maybe, all those little corner shops will accept now that it's no longer ok to penalise card users with a 50p charge or minimum spend of £10!!!!

a) if the charge actually costs 50p then it's because the muppet that owns the business is too useless to pick up the phone and negotiate rates.

b) Why charge people at all? If they didn't carry cash the first time, they won't the second time they're near your shop - so they won't be back! they will go the extra distance to the petrol station which won't faff around at all. What they're basically saying is that your custom is worth less than a 10-20p charge max.

Rant over - but I'll be glad to see the back of card hating antiquated local shops.

I can see both sides of this and I think cash transactions would be encouraged if instead of charging extra for using a card, factor the card transactions in and then offer a discount for cash.

They will remember to bring cash the next time-every penny helps!

 

[Beachcomber]

My biggest fear is that, without 'real' cash, it will become so much harder to teach kids about how money works - if they can't handle it, save it, spend it and count it then how can they understand it?

 

[BizGurl]

This is cat and mouse with payment methods and will not stop until we can not buy or sell without a microchip implanted into the forehead or the hand. This will be scanned as we are now seeing being introduced the scanning of a mobile phone as a payment method for something quick such as a sandwich.

This is a frightening prospect, which is very clearly where we are heading. It's already being used to store medical information and for security reasons, and it won't be too long before it becomes a legal requirement. I heard some new bill in America passed which means soon you can't even get medical insurance without the implanted chip - which is slowly - or rather quickly - becoming the norm. It's scary that people are actually walking around with and using these things. No doubt the UK will be right behind. The excuse will be for security/bankng but in reality they'll be able to control us.

If/when this day comes, I'll be heading back to the caveman lifestyle to live on grass and whatever water is left in the lakes.

 

[movietub]

My biggest fear is that, without 'real' cash, it will become so much harder to teach kids about how money works - if they can't handle it, save it, spend it and count it then how can they understand it?

People said that to me about maths at school. They said it's no good relying on a calculator, you would look pretty stupid if you still had to use a calculator when you have a job!

Well I'm now a designer of huge intricate stainless steel public water features, and I use CAD and a calculator. If I caught any of my staff using pen and paper to work out something they could do much more quickly (on one of the calculators I have paid for) I would not exactly applaud them! Human brains actually make very poor calculators.

And by the same logic, I think kids will cope fine with digital finances. It's still the same set of rules. True, they won't learn in the same way, but they will still 'get' it.

 

[movietub]

I can see both sides of this and I think cash transactions would be encouraged if instead of charging extra for using a card, factor the card transactions in and then offer a discount for cash.

They will remember to bring cash the next time-every penny helps!

I used to suggest similar, but the truth is that accepting cards really doesn't cost anything. Even if it's a small local shop that makes tiny margins, it's quite possible. Not 10 years ago, but that was 10 years ago. I doubt these shop owners are even aware how much extra business they are missing as cashless people drive by, who do need something they sell but know they will get penalised at the till.

And of course, once you become card friendly the number of card sales shoot up and getting lower rates is easy.

Obviously a lot of smaller local shops perfer taking cash for other reasons... For these same reasons we can expect the government to push for cashless society when the time comes!

 

[Consistency]

People will want a cashless society, it will not be forced upon them by any count. How difficult is it now to not have a bank account? Banks have been around for a long time and when I opened my domestic current account I had no gun at my head or wire wrapped round my wrist. I was simply told that without a bank account, the YTS scheme that I did would not be able to pay my money in and so there was no other way of paying my wages.

There are many many reasons why people will want cash phased out -

1. No drug dealing
2. No mugging
3. No stealing of children's lunch money or bus fares
4. No risk of being accused of lurid acts which people pay for
5. No more pimps
6. No fraud from shopkeepers who put their fingers in the till
7. An alibi as the chip will also track where and when your last transaction was

The list can go on and on. The next stage will probably be that debit cards will have to have a photograph on as the chip and pin system will be no longer secure. It is slow but be sure it is coming.

 

[Dawg]

Why should the banks charge for processing debit card payments but not cash ones? Holding and providing cash by the banks is more expensive than electronic money, distribution costs to ATMs are zero, counting costs are zero, etc etc. The banks should be encouraging a cashless society by making electronic payments free.
Costs incurred would be covered by the zillions flying around getting interest, even for minutes, which is not available for money using cash (or cheques). The banks are having it both ways, again.

If there was proper competition in banking this would be seen, as would a much lower entry level to merchant services as in the USA. And, if a bank cocked it up, they could be allowed to fall, as the competition would pick up the pieces.

 

[cmcp]

1. No drug dealing
2. No mugging
3. No stealing of children's lunch money or bus fares
4. No risk of being accused of lurid acts which people pay for
5. No more pimps
6. No fraud from shopkeepers who put their fingers in the till
7. An alibi as the chip will also track where and when your last transaction was

I'm with you on number 2, and at a push number 3.

 

[Deleted member 88701]

I think contactless payment like Barclays offers will go a long way towards eradicating money... but I've still never found a place that accepts contactless payment!

 

[movietub]

Consistency makes some good points. True some of them would require more than just card only purchases, the way cards are used and tracked would need to change also.

But I think the point is, that the technoogy exists. Cash is already way past it's sell by date.

Money was not introduced so we could have something to jingle in our pockets and spill pennies onto the counter at ye olde corner shop - no matter how familiar we think of these things.

Money was introduced as a medium for trade. You can't trade salmon caught in salmon season for corn grown in corn season without some sort of credit note to bridge the time in between! Money, has only ever been virtual - it has never really existed. It's nothing more than a promise of repayment for something you have done, from someone else in the future.

There is really no reason other than habit to have it as a physical thing anymore. People lament the lost art of letter writing, but emails are better in every way - other than sentimental value, and money certainly has less sentimental value than an old letter.

The idea of cards being tracked does bother me, even though it already happens of course. But that's a seperate issue. Electronic money is more efficient, end of. I'ts ultimatley cheaper, less hassle, easier and more secure. A wad of cash is nice of course, but these other things probably matter more, to more people.

 

[benjamin_c]

I probably use cards for 95% of all my transactions but i would never like to see the back of cash, Putting all eggs in one basket is just asking for trouble, what if a shop has a power cut, or if the banks servers go down or if a crazy terrorist sets of some kind of EMP weapon then cards would be useless, or even if someone looses their card and wants to borrow a few ££ from their friend until their card comes through the post? Then there's personal transactions such as carboot sales where cash is the easiest form of payment. and giving young children pocket money, would you all want your 6 year olds having their own cards? and having to pay their pocket money into their banks by online bank transfer?
Also charities would loose out big time, how many people put their loose change in charity boxes? I often stick the odd few coppers into the charity pot but i'd never sign upto one of those direct debit charity things, the only time i have ever used a card for charity was to sponser a friend on her justgiving page...
I can never see cash being phased out totally...

 

[-Joe-]

God, I hope not.

Nothing nicer to see than a big stack of £50 notes

 

[pbsdirect]

Well my local corner shops solve this by having cash machines in store. Unfortunately you pay 2quid for the pleasure of withdrawing, weigh it up with goigh through rush hour traffic to the garage a couple of miles away with a chance the machine there is empty.. I usually end up paying the 2quid. Its then win win for them! They get a commission off me using their machine AND I pay cash :/

 

[Drpepper]

Maybe, just maybe, all those little corner shops will accept now that it's no longer ok to penalise card users with a 50p charge or minimum spend of £10!!!!

a) if the charge actually costs 50p then it's because the muppet that owns the business is too useless to pick up the phone and negotiate rates.

b) Why charge people at all? If they didn't carry cash the first time, they won't the second time they're near your shop - so they won't be back! they will go the extra distance to the petrol station which won't faff around at all. What they're basically saying is that your custom is worth less than a 10-20p charge max.

Rant over - but I'll be glad to see the back of card hating antiquated local shops.

Of course it cost money to accept cards, 30p for a debit card, 1.95% to take a credit card and £15 a month to rent each terminal. Show me who will provide these for free and I'll happily change my provider.

Now if I sell say a bar of chocolate for 25p and it's paid for by debit card then I make a loss (if fact I would be better off just giving it to them!), can of coke at 49p still a loss - great. In fact the minimum spend would have to be about 80p to make a profit with a debit card. And now that kids of 12 have these debit card they do ask quite often to pay for these small items on a card.

Saying that, we take over £140,000 in cash and about £12,000 on cards every year and I'm charged .9% to pay that cash in the bank. We will always have cash, of that I'm sure if only because of small value items - unless of course you don't want to be able to buy anything under £1.

 

God, I hope not.

Nothing nicer to see than a big stack of £50 notes

I'm buying a bigger mattress.:|

I mean how many times has your windows system crashed.?

Earl

 

[movietub]

Of course it cost money to accept cards, 30p for a debit card, 1.95% to take a credit card and £15 a month to rent each terminal. Show me who will provide these for free and I'll happily change my provider.

Now if I sell say a bar of chocolate for 25p and it's paid for by debit card then I make a loss (if fact I would be better off just giving it to them!), can of coke at 49p still a loss - great. In fact the minimum spend would have to be about 80p to make a profit with a debit card. And now that kids of 12 have these debit card they do ask quite often to pay for these small items on a card.

Saying that, we take over £140,000 in cash and about £12,000 on cards every year and I'm charged .9% to pay that cash in the bank. We will always have cash, of that I'm sure if only because of small value items - unless of course you don't want to be able to buy anything under £1.

I'm afraid you're a prime example of a person that dislikes cards because of the rates - rates that should not be so high!

It should not cost 30p to process a debit card, the 1.95% can also be reduced. Many merchants will also remove or heavily reduce terminal charges as sales increase.

The question to ask is not the simplistic 'will I lose 10p on the odd can of coke?' but what is my average sale total and what is the average sale profit - does this cover the costs? Almost certainly I would I think.

Of course accepting cards on your current rate would cost more than cash whichever way you look at it, but then you also have to ask how many extra sales you would get if you were 100% card friendly.

What I'm saying, is that fear of losing a few pence on the odd tiny sale is not a reason to not look at a potentially beneficial change of attitude in full detail.

And first thing Monday, call your bank. Tell them the can of coke situation, tell them that you know full well you could process many more cards if the rates were adjusted. I simply don't accept you can't get better rates than that!

 

[Will-man Rodders]

It's OK to say that cards are the way forward, and cash is now redundant - but if ever you fall out of favour with your bank - and that can happen over the slightest provocation (e.g. complain about your bank charges, and you run the risk that the Bank will consider the banker-customer relationship is terminated. Or look up the problems some people have with PAYPAL where their account is suddenly and [if you were to believe the customer] indescriminately blocked.) and you have no way of living. No way to pay, or be paid. The Bank will control your life.

So cash must always be available as a backstop alternative.

 

[movietub]

It's OK to say that cards are the way forward, and cash is now redundant - but if ever you fall out of favour with your bank - and that can happen over the slightest provocation (e.g. complain about your bank charges, and you run the risk that the Bank will consider the banker-customer relationship is terminated. Or look up the problems some people have with PAYPAL where their account is suddenly and [if you were to believe the customer] indescriminately blocked.) and you have no way of living. No way to pay, or be paid. The Bank will control your life.

So cash must always be available as a backstop alternative.

If cash were to be replaced with card I imagine we would all have a standard type cash card linked to an account with no special facilities whatsoever, no credit facilities etc. Basically, an account which anyone could apply for no matter what their circumstances. This would make fall out's impossible.

As for Paypal, even if we kept cash forever, this problem would still take away just as many peoples income surely? We only use Paypal because we need virtual money already. If paypal keep hold of it, it really makes no difference if you would ultimatley had drawn the funds as cash or left them in your personal account.

Question - based on your closing comment, do you really believe cash will never be replaced by purely electronic means?

 

[Subbynet]

There are many many reasons why people will want cash phased out -

1. No drug dealing

People won't stop taking drugs because cash has been removed from circulation. In fact, you now need to think of a method of payment which is easier than say - handing over someone's TV set.

2. No mugging

Except for the new contactless cards will allow you to purchase items up to £15 without any pin required. I foresee muggings actually rising because of this.

And if people don't steal for money, they'll just steal what they were going to buy with your money.

3. No stealing of children's lunch money or bus fares

Its not really a big problem anyway. Plus, is anything stopping these kids using another kids contactless card? Nope.

4. No risk of being accused of lurid acts which people pay for

You might be at more risk, because they certainly won't be paying with cash. Maybe they'll be using your details instead. Its happened to thousands of people already.

5. No more pimps

The appetite for sex won't change because of cash - another method of payment will be found, and that might be worse than cash.

6. No fraud from shopkeepers who put their fingers in the till

If you can't catch staff stealing from the till you probably won't catch them stealing from the stock room ever.

The chances of fraud might actually increase once everyone is using cards. You already need to keep a eye on the terminal being used, many have been used to skim card details.

If you leave a dodgy member of staff in the store, he/she can now skim everyone's card, or the alternative is probably stealing a few quid from the till.

7. An alibi as the chip will also track where and when your last transaction was

That alibi might put you at risk if someone is using a cloned card. Now you need to prove it wasn't you.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/saving...icle.html?in_article_id=505861&in_page_id=111

(The rules have since changed in the link above, but rules are rules, and cash doesn't come with such rules)

If they used cash, you wouldn't even be involved in the issue.

Hard currency in your pocket is a good thing...

 

[Lorro2]

Yes a lot of transactions will be done electonnically but cash will always be king and people will always want to carry a few notes and coins in their pockets.

 

[Will-man Rodders]

If cash were to be replaced with card I imagine we would all have a standard type cash card linked to an account with no special facilities whatsoever, no credit facilities etc. Basically, an account which anyone could apply for no matter what their circumstances. This would make fall out's impossible.

Question - based on your closing comment, do you really believe cash will never be replaced by purely electronic means?

Yes, in my opinion, cash will never be 100% replaced by purely electronic means. Cash is understood and accepted by the Public. It is the safety net that we all trust.

You do not need electricity, or a computer system, to undertake a transaction when dealing in cash. ( I don't dispute there are many advantages to electronic payments over cash payments, just that in certain circumstances cash is better)

 

[Drpepper]

I'm afraid you're a prime example of a person that dislikes cards because of the rates - rates that should not be so high!

It should not cost 30p to process a debit card, the 1.95% can also be reduced. Many merchants will also remove or heavily reduce terminal charges as sales increase.

The question to ask is not the simplistic 'will I lose 10p on the odd can of coke?' but what is my average sale total and what is the average sale profit - does this cover the costs? Almost certainly I would I think.

Of course accepting cards on your current rate would cost more than cash whichever way you look at it, but then you also have to ask how many extra sales you would get if you were 100% card friendly.

What I'm saying, is that fear of losing a few pence on the odd tiny sale is not a reason to not look at a potentially beneficial change of attitude in full detail.

And first thing Monday, call your bank. Tell them the can of coke situation, tell them that you know full well you could process many more cards if the rates were adjusted. I simply don't accept you can't get better rates than that!

As I said, tell me where I can get cheaper rates and I'll happily go - this is the best deal I could find. My card sales are never going to be that high anyway.

Actually our minimum spend is only £4, we have never lost a sale because of it and it does increase the odd sale, our card sales are also less than 10% of our annual turnover. I'm going to maintain that there has to be minimum because it's just plain crazy sell at a loss. And you may consider them tiny sales, but my business relies on hundreds of these tiny sales each and every day, and the profit they provide, if I took cards on all the sales I would have gone out of business years ago!

 

[movietub]

As I said, tell me where I can get cheaper rates and I'll happily go - this is the best deal I could find. My card sales are never going to be that high anyway.

But you see this really is the problem. There is no denying that the les it costs you to take cards, the better your business will be. Clearly more people want to pay that way, you are subject (to a degree) to your customers preference, so accepting cards with a positive attitude is therfore good for business. But not reducing costs because no-one is telling you how to go about it is not really good enough. Finding out and knowing that you have 100% the best rate you can get is the difference between a businessman, and a shopkeeper that happens to own the shop surely?

However, for your customers sake:

Streamline are generally around the best rates, and very negotiabe. Also Join the FSB and you can get the monthly fees waived and recieve much better per transx charges. We pay 18p debit and and 1.45% on credit. Not monthly fees. We were lower than your rates 3 years ago when we took about 2 cards a day.

Actually our minimum spend is only £4, we have never lost a sale because of it and it does increase the odd sale, our card sales are also less than 10% of our annual turnover. I'm going to maintain that there has to be minimum because it's just plain crazy sell at a loss. And you may consider them tiny sales, but my business relies on hundreds of these tiny sales each and every day, and the profit they provide, if I took cards on all the sales I would have gone out of business years ago!

If you can drop the minimum amount (and any charges you impose for going below it) you may well see added custom as a result. The fact that you are posting on a thread about 50%+ people using cards, and then saying that cards are less than 10% of your t/o suggests there is some benefit in tempting more card users. True, your shop may be far from typical and you could likey never expect to see 50% cards - but less than 10% these days is unusual.

The person you turn away from buying a sub £4 item (at a potential loss for you) may well avoid you in future for any other purchases and instead head to the local chain-owned type shop where cards are never charged. I do it all the time, pass the local shop and head for the petrol station simply to avoid hassle or question when I produce a card.

 

[Drpepper]

But you see this really is the problem. There is no denying that the les it costs you to take cards, the better your business will be. Clearly more people want to pay that way, you are subject (to a degree) to your customers preference, so accepting cards with a positive attitude is therfore good for business. But not reducing costs because no-one is telling you how to go about it is not really good enough. Finding out and knowing that you have 100% the best rate you can get is the difference between a businessman, and a shopkeeper that happens to own the shop surely?

However, for your customers sake:

Streamline are generally around the best rates, and very negotiabe. Also Join the FSB and you can get the monthly fees waived and recieve much better per transx charges. We pay 18p debit and and 1.45% on credit. Not monthly fees. We were lower than your rates 3 years ago when we took about 2 cards a day.



If you can drop the minimum amount (and any charges you impose for going below it) you may well see added custom as a result. The fact that you are posting on a thread about 50%+ people using cards, and then saying that cards are less than 10% of your t/o suggests there is some benefit in tempting more card users. True, your shop may be far from typical and you could likey never expect to see 50% cards - but less than 10% these days is unusual.

The person you turn away from buying a sub £4 item (at a potential loss for you) may well avoid you in future for any other purchases and instead head to the local chain-owned type shop where cards are never charged. I do it all the time, pass the local shop and head for the petrol station simply to avoid hassle or question when I produce a card.

Go check your rates mate, I use streamline through the FSB and the figures I quoted are from this months statement. Trust me I have checked for the best rates with the lowest terminal fees due to the small % of card sales, thank for the tip though

Why would you be paying petrol station prices for anything just so you can use a card? Now that is a waste of money.

Just to reiterate, I have never lost a sale because of our £4 limit, I know that 100%, and there is still no way I want to be taking cards for an 80p sale.

So what do we offer that you national chain or garage can't, well cheaper prices, service, range and car parking charge refunds for a start (1 hour against a £5 purchase (50p) three hours on a £10 purchase (90p)). This is why my customers come back time and again and recommend us.

 

[movietub]

Go check your rates mate, I use streamline through the FSB and the figures I quoted are from this months statement. Trust me I have checked for the best rates with the lowest terminal fees due to the small % of card sales, thank for the tip though

I do go to the effort of checking my rates in the last reply to you. You quoted that you pay line rental, this should not be the case on streamline with FSB. Maybe they have changed the offer, but they would certainly offer the former deal if the alternative was you leaving. And there is no way that you have the best deal. Even if you hardly process anything the rates you gave are streamline basic rates. There is no discount there whatsoever. Argue with me all you like, but I know I'm right. I know that you could be making more money by sorting rates out. Why would you want me to be wrong about that!? I'm not telling you for my own good...

Why would you be paying petrol station prices for anything just so you can use a card? Now that is a waste of money.

Local petrol station is a somefield/co-op one way, Tesco the other. Both cheaper than the local shops - although different areas = different pricing I guess.

Just to reiterate, I have never lost a sale because of our £4 limit, I know that 100%, and there is still no way I want to be taking cards for an 80p sale.

A fools comment. I know my local shop has lost many a sale when I drive past, and they could never possibly know. When I do go in, when they charge me for using my card, I'm smiley and friendly. They remember me. They have no idea how often I choose not to go in. You have no way of knowing what sales you lose from those that choose an alternative if they only have card and only want a pack of cat food etc.

So what do we offer that you national chain or garage can't, well cheaper prices, service, range and car parking charge refunds for a start (1 hour against a £5 purchase (50p) three hours on a £10 purchase (90p)). This is why my customers come back time and again and recommend us.

I never said there were not many great things about your business - I don't know very much about it at all. But I do know that one small and increasingly relevant part of it could be improved. And improving that part would not damage any of the other pro's you just listed.

 

[Drpepper]

I do go to the effort of checking my rates in the last reply to you. You quoted that you pay line rental, this should not be the case on streamline with FSB. Maybe they have changed the offer, but they would certainly offer the former deal if the alternative was you leaving. And there is no way that you have the best deal. Even if you hardly process anything the rates you gave are streamline basic rates. There is no discount there whatsoever. Argue with me all you like, but I know I'm right. I know that you could be making more money by sorting rates out. Why would you want me to be wrong about that!? I'm not telling you for my own good...



Local petrol station is a somefield/co-op one way, Tesco the other. Both cheaper than the local shops - although different areas = different pricing I guess.



A fools comment. I know my local shop has lost many a sale when I drive past, and they could never possibly know. When I do go in, when they charge me for using my card, I'm smiley and friendly. They remember me. They have no idea how often I choose not to go in. You have no way of knowing what sales you lose from those that choose an alternative if they only have card and only want a pack of cat food etc.



I never said there were not many great things about your business - I don't know very much about it at all. But I do know that one small and increasingly relevant part of it could be improved. And improving that part would not damage any of the other pro's you just listed.

Thanks I'll have word with streamline and the FSB on Monday, just noticed that Streamline have changed to RSB Worldpay so it'll need checking out, and Worldpay used to be a very different beast from normal merchant services.

How do I know I'm not loosing customers, well a) they always ask if I take card and when told about the £4 minimum spend no one has ever walked away, and b) I really don't want to have 100's of sales that I loose money on, I don't sell cat food by the way, and if I did why would I want to sell it at a loss by taking a debit card payment on it.

Horses for courses I guess, and an internet business is a very different business to High Street retail.

By the way, do a price check in your Somerfield garage - they are not Co-Op or Supermarket prices but garage prices (for example 73p for a small bar of Cadburys, mine are 53p). Tesco's charge "Metro" prices in their garages, not Superstore prices.

 

[movietub]

Thanks I'll have word with streamline and the FSB on Monday, just noticed that Streamline have just changed to RSB Worldpay so it'll need checking out, and Worldpay used to be a very different beast from normal merchant services.

How do I know I'm not loosing customers, well a) they always ask if I take card and when told about the £4 minimum spend no one has ever walked away, and b) I really don't want to have 100's of sales that I loose money on, I don't sell cat food by the way, and if I did why would I want to sell it at a loss by taking a card payment on it.

Horses for courses I guess, and an internet business is a very different business to High Street retail.

Streamline - Tell them you have seen a big increase in people wanting to pay by cards, you want to drop your charges and need better rates. Not exactly correct, but the promise of you taking more sales will certainly help proceedings. Also speak to FSB and ask them what new memebers would expect and what deals they have currently. Chances are, you're missing something you should have had from day one.

The problem with judging how many sales you miss, is that you get an altogether different response from the customer when they're in the shop. If I had a £3 pound item and you told me it was £4 minimum I would probably buy something else - lots of people do that. But I would avoid the shop in future if I wasn't sure what I wanted would tip the £4 limit. There must be things you sell for less than £4 that you make more than enough margin on to cover processing costs.

More to the point, would I remember the £4 limit? Or would I just remember that there was 'some sort of limit on cards'. Was it a limit or a charge? I can't remember.

Having said all that - I do get the impression that the attitude towards cards and the minimum spend is probably not a significant issue for your particular business. But for any business lower rates are good news - so good luck!

 

[Drpepper]

Do you know what, I'm going to remove the minimum limit for the rest of December, and see how much difference it really does make (unless all the kids come in using their debit cards for 25p sales then I'll stop it pretty quickly!). I'll start a thread in the New Year with the results

 

[movietub]

Do you know what, I'm going to remove the minimum limit for the rest of December, and see how much difference it really does make (unless all the kids come in using their debit cards for 25p sales then I'll stop it pretty quickly!). I'll start a thread in the New Year with the results

I was going to suggest you do tht and stick a sign in the widow welcoming cards with no minimum spend - but then I remembered this is not my business!

But you're dead right to try it. In the end it doesn't matter if I'm right or wrong, all that matters is you test the theory and sleep easy because you know that part of the business is setup the best way.

I reckon that you will either see a marginal increase in custom over a period which will offset any small losses - or you will start t attract a tangible number of new/repeat sales. I can't see dropping the limit will have a nagative effect, more likely it will be nuetral-ish, possibly positive.

 

[Psl]

Well I'm now a designer of huge intricate stainless steel public water features.
.

Do a lot of your customers pay by card then and do you design chocolate fireguards as well?

'A fools comment. I know my local shop has lost many a sale when I drive past, and they could never possibly know. When I do go in, when they charge me for using my card, I'm smiley and friendly. They remember me. They have no idea how often I choose not to go in. You have no way of knowing what sales you lose from those that choose an alternative if they only have card and only want a pack of cat food etc.'

You say you know how many sales your local shop loses yet you also say 'they' have now way of knowing what sales 'they' lose, why do you know and not the shop?
How can you tell when you drive past your local shop how many sales they make or don't make? and more importantly don't you pay attention to the road when you are driving?

 

[movietub]

Do a lot of your customers pay by card then and do you design chocolate fireguards as well?

You've lost me entirely... No they generally pay by wire. Thats one half of the business, the other is online and physical retail - hence me contact with customers paying by card.

'A fools comment. I know my local shop has lost many a sale when I drive past, and they could never possibly know. When I do go in, when they charge me for using my card, I'm smiley and friendly. They remember me. They have no idea how often I choose not to go in. You have no way of knowing what sales you lose from those that choose an alternative if they only have card and only want a pack of cat food etc.'

You say you know how many sales your local shop loses yet you also say 'they' have now way of knowing what sales 'they' lose, why do you know and not the shop?
How can you tell when you drive past your local shop how many sales they make or don't make? and more importantly don't you pay attention to the road when you are driving?

Well obviously I'm referring to ME being the sale they are losing as I 'drive past'. So yes, I do know they have just lost a sale, even though they are none the wiser.

I wasn't suggesting I drive past just to look through the window and make sure they struggling! Sorry if I wasn't clear though.

 

[Drpepper]

I do go to the effort of checking my rates in the last reply to you. You quoted that you pay line rental, this should not be the case on streamline with FSB.

Sorry mate just checked out FSB/Streamline, didn't realise you are a newbie to taking credit cards and still on the FSB/Streamline first three months free terminal (not line) rental deal. That'll be the difference.

There is no standard rate for %'s and debit cards fee's it's all variable depending on your business, but the standard terminal rental is £25 plus VAT, I'm paying the FSB rate of £15 plus VAT.

 

[Consistency]

People won't stop taking drugs because cash has been removed from circulation. In fact, you now need to think of a method of payment which is easier than say - handing over someone's TV set.



Except for the new contactless cards will allow you to purchase items up to £15 without any pin required. I foresee muggings actually rising because of this.

And if people don't steal for money, they'll just steal what they were going to buy with your money.



Its not really a big problem anyway. Plus, is anything stopping these kids using another kids contactless card? Nope.



You might be at more risk, because they certainly won't be paying with cash. Maybe they'll be using your details instead. Its happened to thousands of people already.



The appetite for sex won't change because of cash - another method of payment will be found, and that might be worse than cash.



If you can't catch staff stealing from the till you probably won't catch them stealing from the stock room ever.

The chances of fraud might actually increase once everyone is using cards. You already need to keep a eye on the terminal being used, many have been used to skim card details.

If you leave a dodgy member of staff in the store, he/she can now skim everyone's card, or the alternative is probably stealing a few quid from the till.



That alibi might put you at risk if someone is using a cloned card. Now you need to prove it wasn't you.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/saving...icle.html?in_article_id=505861&in_page_id=111

(The rules have since changed in the link above, but rules are rules, and cash doesn't come with such rules)

If they used cash, you wouldn't even be involved in the issue.

Hard currency in your pocket is a good thing...

This is where it gets to the microchip. First there is the cashless society, the scanning of a mobile phone for example for the small things will be resolved. This then will create many other problems. There will again be an amount of disarray with cards being stolen and cloned and even with a photograph on, they can be sold to the one who looks closest.

With electoronic transactions we will then go into a one world currency as we will obviously in years to come be forced into the Euro, there will be the Euro, the Yen and the Dollar. People will save money on internet transactions that go abroad and because we have world banks now such as Santander we will end up with a global bank.

Due to the problems with cards, and people losing them and being very expensive to replace or unaffordable charges when people lose them, it will be called for for people to want the microchip that is not transferable.

This will mean that money laundering will end, fingers in the till will end, car boot sales etc will end, cloning of cards will end, identity fraud will end.

As for drug dealers, things such as televisions will not be a good currency. Everything that is brought or sold will be trackable as each mobile phone is. I cannot see a drug dealer trading in TVs.

I absolutely agree that hard currency is a good thing but we are getting ever closer to cash being frozen out.

 

[Drpepper]

Actually it's just come back to me, Swindon did trail a system with cards replacing cash only. It was back in the mid 90's and was trialled for about three years in total, from memory.

Oh, found it:- http://www.independent.co.uk/news/cashless-society-stops-at-swindon-1327804.html

Right, I'll sit back now and wait for the "but that was 15 years ago and it'll be more popular now" remarks

 

[Will-man Rodders]

The microchip solution might work if the transactions were just by humans and within a set geographical boundary. But transactions are undertaken by people, businesses, partnerships, LLPs, and companies. Add to that the annual flow of Brits going to other countrys and visitors coming to our shores - from anywhere in the world - and the system of microchiped-humans would become a nightmare to administer.

In the end you would need to have a payment system for those humans with microchips, and a payment system for all other transactions including one for those humans without a microchip. Another words, the microchip is simply yet another payment channel.

And as the Swindon experiment showed, only a few people will use the new system voluntarily.

And at what age are you going to microchip someone? At birth? How is this microchip then going to be upgraded when technology moves on? Another implant later in life?

No, I still say that cash is the universally-accepted fall back medium. Everything uses cash as its base, and while electonic payment methods will continue to evolve, 'cash remains King.'