Company Van Use

[Stigma*28]

Hi Guys, need some advice from you if i can?

Due to the nature of my job myself and the other 4 drivers from our Depot all have company vans. Recently we have been informed that we can't use the vans for private use any more. This is where the problem lies!

The Depot has no provision for parking the vans when not in use so we take them home and park them outside our homes. I have asked my supervisor to contact the fleet department and ask if i can use the van for personal use to take my motorcycle to and from the track on a weekend and he told me the said "No due to Tax reasons" so i asked that if i paid the company vehicle tax for the van could i use it and again i was told No!

The problem is the van i have is a 3.5 tonne Luton type van so takes up 2 car parking spaces at my home. I don't have a problem buying a used van just to use on a weekend for my hobby but with the works van being at my home address i have nowhere to park it?


Can I charge the company storage of the van at my home address to get some revenge ?

Even if I offer to pay any taxes & fuel involved in private use can they still refuse private use?

Any ideas where i can go from here?

Thanks In Advance

 

[Williams lester]

Tell them you have nowhere to park it!

 

[gordonthegofor]

Private use of a van will mean you pay tax on £3000 for use of the van and £500 for fuel your compiny will also have to pay approx £400 in employers national insurance.

If the private use is worth paying the tax, then explain the parking problem and see if you can negotiate a compromise.

Trying to charge for parking the van overnight will probably see them looking for any excuse to get rid of you.

 

[KM-Tiger]

Even if I offer to pay any taxes & fuel involved in private use can they still refuse private use?

I'd guess they are doing this to stop it becoming a taxable benefit, though to the best of my knowledge home to work and back would not be counted as private use.

What you actually do at weekends would be between you and your conscience. I've not (yet!) seen HMRC inspectors checking vans at weekends.

 

[gordonthegofor]

............What you actually do at weekends would be between you and your conscience. I've not (yet!) seen HMRC inspectors checking vans at weekends.

The main problem with this is if there is a accident. Would the company's insurers accept the claim and would the police charge the driver with driving without consent and no insurance?

 

[Stigma*28]

Thanks for the fast responses guys, yeah it would be worth me paying the tax and it would work out cheaper then me buying, insuring, taxing + any running costs of having my own van.

Gordonthegofor – yeah that’s the thing I worry about, if I was using the van at the weekend and I had an accident would I be insured? Or if the van broke down how would I stand as recovery costs for a van of that size would be very expensive you know.

 

[KM-Tiger]

The main problem with this is if there is a accident. Would the company's insurers accept the claim and would the police charge the driver with driving without consent and no insurance?

Good point, it'll depend on the fine print of the Insurance Policy.

Haven't read a commercial van policy in quite some time.

If anyone knows ...

 

[Atilla]

I'd guess they are doing this to stop it becoming a taxable benefit, though to the best of my knowledge home to work and back would not be counted as private use.

What you actually do at weekends would be between you and your conscience. I've not (yet!) seen HMRC inspectors checking vans at weekends.

Home to work and back is normally private mileage.

And yes, they do check vans.

 

[Atilla]

Can I charge the company storage of the van at my home address to get some revenge ?

Even if I offer to pay any taxes & fuel involved in private use can they still refuse private use?

Any ideas where i can go from here?

Thanks In Advance

return to the yard/office just before your 'clocking off' time, leave the van and keys and let them sort out what to do with it.
Next day, get to yard at clocking on time and collect van,

See how long they hold out on the lack of work being done.

 

[KM-Tiger]

Home to work and back is normally private mileage.

Do you have a reference for that?

This HMRC document would seem to say otherwise, and if you follow the links, then some restricted private use is also allowed.

 

[Atilla]

Do you have a reference for that?

This HMRC document would seem to say otherwise, and if you follow the links, then some restricted private use is also allowed.

I said normally.
If the driver has no fixed work location then first and last journey's are not private. Likewise, if the van is required for 'call out' then again, home journey's not private. Same rules with car.

The taxman had quite a clampdown on vans when the benefit in kind went upto £3k

 

[David Griffiths]

I said normally.
If the driver has no fixed work location then first and last journey's are not private. Likewise, if the van is required for 'call out' then again, home journey's not private. Same rules with car.

The taxman had quite a clampdown on vans when the benefit in kind went upto £3k

It's nothing to do with "normally" as the rules for cars and vans are quite different.

In the case of a van travel from home to work is NOT regarded as private mileage, and nor is occasional private use.

The OP refers to 3.5 tonne vehicle, and that is the cut off point. If it's over 3.5 tonnes then it's not a van, so there is no benefit in kind, so he needs to be more specific. However even if it's below 3.5 tonnes there is no assessable benefit if the only use is for home to work and the odd private journey.

 

[Bri]

Company vehicles....age old emotive subject, how I miss it.

 

[WarbyGK]

Here's a random idea.......how about you sit down with your employers and talk this through with them?
I'm sure if you explain about the parking etc then I'd be pretty confident that, as adults, you can reach an agreement. Honest dialogue will go further than making demands.....

 

[Atilla]

It's nothing to do with "normally" as the rules for cars and vans are quite different.

In the case of a van travel from home to work is NOT regarded as private mileage, and nor is occasional private use.

The OP refers to 3.5 tonne vehicle, and that is the cut off point. If it's over 3.5 tonnes then it's not a van, so there is no benefit in kind, so he needs to be more specific. However even if it's below 3.5 tonnes there is no assessable benefit if the only use is for home to work and the odd private journey.

If the van driver has no fixed workplace, then no, it is not private mileage. Are you saying that if the van driver attends fixed place of work (office/depot etc) at start and end of day then takes van home, this is also business mileage not private?

 

[Williams lester]

If the van driver has no fixed workplace, then no, it is not private mileage. Are you saying that if the van driver attends fixed place of work (office/depot etc) at start and end of day then takes van home, this is also business mileage not private?

Commuting is allowed tax free in a company van, see here for the detail http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vans/vans-info.pdf

 

[Atilla]

Commuting is allowed tax free in a company van, see here for the detail http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vans/vans-info.pdf

Clear as mud all this business/private commuting.
I know of a few companies who appear to have trouble with the definitions.

 

[lafedm]

thanks for your articles.........

 

[Cobby]

return to the yard/office just before your 'clocking off' time, leave the van and keys and let them sort out what to do with it.
Next day, get to yard at clocking on time and collect van,

See how long they hold out on the lack of work being done.

Unless it is in your contract that you are obliged to store the van at home, then I'd be inclined to leave it on the premises. It may be the case that you have this arrangement because leaving your own vehicle at work isn't possible, either way your best bet is a candid talk with your employer.

 

[Stigma*28]

Thanks for all the reply's, the depot we work from is classed as an un-manned depot and as such is just a small unit and there's no room to store vehicles inside hence the reason why we take the vans home with us.

The depot supervisor has contacted the fleet department at head office to ask if some private use was permitted and they told him no for the tax reasons so i asked him to contact them again and offered to pay the tax but they still said no.

The depot supervisor said he didn't have a problems with us using the vans and knows the situation we are in but head office weren't so understanding. I need a van to transport my off road bike to and from the track on a weekend but just don't have the room at home to have 2 vans plus the other half's car parked up outside.

The vans we use are 3.5 tonne transit type long wheel base luton type vans fitted with a tail lift so take up quite a lot of room. Employee's with company cars have full private use including use for their spouse but the vans are no private use and no passengers unless employed by the company. So i can't even pick my son up on my way home which means he has to stay at the out of school club for n extra 90 mins or so until the other half can get there for him!

 

[gordonthegofor]

........... are no private use and no passengers unless employed by the company

Sounds more like the insurance than tax

Time to look for a nother Job?

 

[Cobby]

Thanks for all the reply’s, the depot we work from is classed as an un-manned depot and as such is just a small unit and there's no room to store vehicles inside hence the reason why we take the vans home with us.

Well I don't see how this is really your problem. You're doing them a big favour and they won't reciprocate, so just point out that it can't continue. You'll either get permission or your parking spaces back. Good luck!

 

[UKSBD]

What would happen if you refused to take the vehicle home?
Br careful that they don't just park it up at another depot 50 miles further from you and expect you to start work at the same time.
As was suggested earlier you need to discuss options with them rather than making demands.

 

[yorkshirejames]

The company are being very bl**dy minded here.

I personally think that you yourself need to have a bit more common sense about this. Now - I would never advocate lying, but there are always occasions when it is possible to be a little flexible with things.

Your son - pick the lad up, and _if_ it ever arises as an issue/question then tell work that you thought there was no issue with him being in the car, just an issue with him not being allowed to drive it. Even if an accident occurs and he is in the car, there is no way that the company can refuse to pay out for any injury he suffers even if you are at fault (vicarious liability, unfair contract terms act).

Taking your bike - you mention that you and your partner have another car. The chances are that this will be insured comprehensive, and that your policy will allow you to "drive other vehicles owned by others". If you are going to the motorcross track, then you effectively do it on your own insurance.

Bottom line - don't rock the boat and don't ask awkward questions. Keep your head down, do the job, and enjoy your biking at weekends (and I couldn't possibly advocate fiddling your mileage log in order to cover up the alleged personal use).

As an aside, remember that a van has lower speed limits than a car - make sure no speeding tickets turn up at work.

If you are caught, then think of some work-related reason why you are out in the van on a weekend. Are you perhaps taking the van to get washed? Or is there a problem with the van, and you are driving it to the nearest Ford Transit dealership who are open on sundays, so that the fault can be investigated and the van ready for work on monday morning with no bother (maybe there is an electrical fault, which they later trace to a fuse having been pulled out - your naughty little lad perhaps)?

 

[Bruvver]

888888888888888888

Nien Nien Nien

Don't think that is allowed you naughty person.

 

[gordonthegofor]

................ you mention that you and your partner have another car. The chances are that this will be insured comprehensive, and that your policy will allow you to "drive other vehicles owned by others". If you are going to the motorcross track, then you effectively do it on your own insurance....................

to "drive other vehicles owned by others" I thought you had to have the owner's permission for this clause in the insurance to be valid

 

[yorkshirejames]

to "drive other vehicles owned by others" I thought you had to have the owner's permission for this clause in the insurance to be valid

Owner? Some leasing company, probably twice removed from the company that our man's employer contracts with.

Keeper - undisputedly our man.

 

[gordonthegofor]

Owner? Some leasing company, probably twice removed from the company that our man's employer contracts with.

Keeper - undisputedly our man.

Intersting point. I certenly would not rely on it

 

[Cobby]

What would happen if you refused to take the vehicle home?
Br careful that they don't just park it up at another depot 50 miles further from you and expect you to start work at the same time.
As was suggested earlier you need to discuss options with them rather than making demands.

This would be probably be seen as unreasonable behaviour on the part of his employer.

 

[gazval99]

i am a service engineer i work from home and have a company van for buisness use only.

i live in a permit area and have to get a permit for my van which cost £20 which my boss refuses to pay for can he do this?

seems unfair to me any help anyone can give me will be greatly appreiated.

many thanks

gary

 

[yorkshirejames]

i am a service engineer i work from home and have a company van for buisness use only.

i live in a permit area and have to get a permit for my van which cost £20 which my boss refuses to pay for can he do this?

seems unfair to me any help anyone can give me will be greatly appreiated.

many thanks

gary

Sounds like a genuine business expense to me. Be wary of rocking the boat though.