Debt Collection Agency - Can they visit your home address?

[-Will101-]

I am the Director of another Ltd company that has recently become insolvent. No cash for an IP so going to get the company removed at companies house in due course.

Have written to all creditors advising this. Main creditor is HMCE so expect them to wind the company up in due course.

Just had an email from one creditor advising they are arranging for a representative from their debt recovery company to visit and discuss payment. I have writtent to them already advising there is no money in the company and inviting winding up action.

Problem is, they have been using my home address for invoicing. The company is not based at my home address nor is it registered here but I work from home so has been easier to get it sent directly here.

Does anyone know if they are actually allowed to send someone round to my home address?

Thanks in advance.

Will

 

[GRDCredit]

They can visit you wherever they like. There is however no obligation for you to let them in (don't!) or even talk to them.

 

[-Will101-]

Thanks Geoff. Can they do this without any kind of court order?
Also given this is a residential address, is there a point at which is becomes harrasment?

 

[Jenni384]

They can visit you wherever they like. There is however no obligation for you to let them in (don't!) or even talk to them.

Absolutely seconded!

Anyone can turn up at anyone's house.
If they do, don't even let them in.
When you begin to feel harassed, then it probably is harassment. The fact that it's a residential address I think is irrelevant.

I would make a point of putting it to them in writing that if they wish to send someone over, they should go to the company's address as you are no longer using the contact address they have (which is true - if it's being wound up you won't be doing any work from there).

 

[-Will101-]

Thanks Jenni. Will get that letter in the post. To be honest, they are just being difficult as they know the company has no assets / money and I have written to them inviting them to wind it up.

Do you think it is worth actually speaking to the debt collector when he arrives (without letting him in) to actually explain why it is a waste of time?

Thanks
Will

 

[Geoff T]

let them in (don't!) or even talk to them.

Do you think it is worth actually speaking to the debt collector when he arrives (without letting him in) to actually explain why it is a waste of time?

Thanks
Will

GRD already covered that question OP...would be a waste of time...

 

[Jenni384]

Nope, just tell him to b***er off!!

 

[Geoff T]

Nope, just tell him to b***er off!!

Is that "tekkie beanie" speech?

Travels well if it is...even I got the message!

 

[OldWelshGuy]

I would write to them, explain that the company doesn't trade from your house, and that any attempt to contactb you at your home address will be seen as harrassment and an act of trespass.

More worrying is that you have used your home address and the main cxreditor is HMRC, this means THEY can turn up without a wartrant to your home ad do as they like

 

[-Will101-]

I would write to them, explain that the company doesn't trade from your house, and that any attempt to contactb you at your home address will be seen as harrassment and an act of trespass.

More worrying is that you have used your home address and the main cxreditor is HMRC, this means THEY can turn up without a wartrant to your home ad do as they like

Foutunately, it is only this one creditor who has my home address. I worked from home for a bit and got them to send invoices there. I guess the HMRC could find out where I live anyway from companies house records?

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Foutunately, it is only this one creditor who has my home address. I worked from home for a bit and got them to send invoices there. I guess the HMRC could find out where I live anyway from companies house records?

Sorry, my bad, I thought you said you sent invoices OUT with your address You are Ok then.

 

[yorkshirejames]

Thanks Jenni. Will get that letter in the post. To be honest, they are just being difficult as they know the company has no assets / money and I have written to them inviting them to wind it up.

Do you think it is worth actually speaking to the debt collector when he arrives (without letting him in) to actually explain why it is a waste of time?

Thanks
Will

If you do, then do it through a window (a window that he cannot fit through) or a double front door, where you can lock the inner door behind you before opening the outer.

I'm guessing this will just be a debt collector (who has no powers) rather than a bailiff - so it is probably worth getting the contact details of the debt collectors' office and writing to them rather than relying on the hired muscle to understand your point.

 

[tommy3000]

I first started my business at home, we have since moved into new offices.

Originally the invoices had my home address on them, however now they have the new address.

We have a disputed debt that has gone to a Debt Collector - they say they are going to visit my home as it is the address on the invoice.

However this address is no longer used for any business - can they still visit me at home or can I instruct them that they can only visit our new office?

Thanks

 

[Wild Goose]

Following on from what others have said, you could write to the debt collectors telling them that you require all communication between themselves and the company to be in writing - to emphasise that, spell it out that they must not contact the company by phone or in person. Give them the company's registered office as the address to write to.

Emphasise that it is the company they are dealing with, and not you personally. What they will probably try to do if they call or phone is scare you into believing that you personally, as an officer of the company, might be prosecuted for wrongful trading (broadly, where you carry on trading, and more specifically racked up a debt with their client, when it should have been obvious that the company was insolvent and had little or no chance of trading its way out of its financial hole). Whether that is true or not depends on the circumstances.

You are not really in a position to apply yourself for the company to be struck off - you're unable to make a declaration that it has no creditors - so one way of getting it struck off is to not send in an annual return, which usually triggers a strike off by the registrar. That's assuming HMRC or any other creditor(s) don't make the application. But take care that you do not leave yourself personally liable as a director by eg failing to submit accounts - the fines can be huge.

 

[internetspaceships]

Foutunately, it is only this one creditor who has my home address. I worked from home for a bit and got them to send invoices there. I guess the HMRC could find out where I live anyway from companies house records?

Don't you believe it. As I've stated on another thread, anyone can get your home address as a Company Director, and the debt companies will do exactly that to chase a debt where the company stops responding.

Regards

Jon

 

[seanstevens]

Emphasise that it is the company they are dealing with, and not you personally. What they will probably try to do if they call or phone is scare you into believing that you personally, as an officer of the company, might be prosecuted for wrongful trading (broadly, where you carry on trading, and more specifically racked up a debt with their client, when it should have been obvious that the company was insolvent and had little or no chance of trading its way out of its financial hole). Whether that is true or not depends on the circumstances.

If a debt collector says this to just tell them that the only 'person' who can make the decision if you as a Director are personally liable is the court judge and that as a company licensed by the office of fair trading they should not be using scare tactics to collect debt. Ask them under what section of company law they believe that to be the case - the bad ones won't be able to respond to your question and therefore their pressure point has been lowered.

 

[tommy3000]

Don't you believe it. As I've stated on another thread, anyone can get your home address as a Company Director, and the debt companies will do exactly that to chase a debt where the company stops responding.

Regards

Jon

They may be able to get this info from companies house - but are they allowed to visit your home address?

Thanks

 

[internetspaceships]

I can't categorically answer that I'm afraid however I do recall another thread where a debt collector said that yes they can, subject to certain restrictions i.e. not harrassing.

I've got to ask the question though (and it's not aimed at you), how does it get to a point where Company debts are having to be enforced by visiting a Director at his/her home address?

Communication has to have broken down really badly before that kind of thing happens.

I genuinely appreciate that it's one thing having the misfortune to be in a bad situation but at the end of the day the money is owed, like it or not.

There's a load of advice here about preventing people collecting on debts, or not communicating about it and frankly it seems to be about avoiding the responsibility.

People need to step up to the plate, communicate with these collectors/agencies at outset and prevent the need for home visits in the first place.

Surely the advice should be based on this and not how to hide from people who are basically asking for their money.

I've had bad periods in my business life and I've found that talking to people that you owe money to usually goes a long way.

I'm probably going to get slapped by the "pc brigade" for this post but along with rights we have responsibilities and THAT seems to be something that our society seems to be forgetting.

 

[tommy3000]

I agree that talking is the key.

My situation is based on the fact that we disputed the debt (they did not provide the services they promised) with the company in question.

Whilst our lawyers exchanged 'legal banter' in regards to settlement etc - the company in question sold the debt to the Debt Collecting Agency.

They are not willing to discuss the fact we dispute the debt exists and keep dropping letters to my home address (from which at the time I ran the business).

Their stance is the debt is now with them and they will collect - I have questioned their practices, but keep getting pushed from department to department with no avail.

 

[Wild Goose]

There are no moral issues here - put simply the company who are now throwing their money away on debt collectors CHOSE of their own accord to do business with and grant credit to a LIMITED company. There it is: they elected to deal with a legal entity that was not a real person and has LIMITED LIABILITY.

The word "limited" is a big red warning flag that they chose to ignore. No good hassling the officers of the company and crying about it - if they didn't understand the risk they were taking by dealing with a company that has limited liability for its debts then I guess they do now - or will, when the penny drops.

 

[internetspaceships]

There are no moral issues here - put simply the company who are now throwing their money away on debt collectors CHOSE of their own accord to do business with and grant credit to a LIMITED company. There it is: they elected to deal with a legal entity that was not a real person and has LIMITED LIABILITY.

The word "limited" is a big red warning flag that they chose to ignore. No good hassling the officers of the company and crying about it - if they didn't understand the risk they were taking by dealing with a company that has limited liability for its debts then I guess they do now - or will, when the penny drops.

Respectfully I have to completely disagree with your post and the thinking behind it. There IS a moral issue.

Limited Liability isn't a flag to wave around and say to people "ahh well you should have known better."

I feel an obligation to run my company in an ethical and moral way and a lot of the people who supply me have become personal friends over the years.

I'd rather tear off my arm than spout the kind of rubbish in your quote to someone like that.

As an aside, the protection granted by Limited Liability has been eroded severely in recent years, and there are a number of grounds for the wrapper of "limited liability" to be unravelled.

 

[Jenni384]

Respectfully I have to completely disagree with your post and the thinking behind it. There IS a moral issue.

Limited Liability isn't a flag to wave around and say to people "ahh well you should have known better."

I feel an obligation to run my company in an ethical and moral way and a lot of the people who supply me have become personal friends over the years.

I'd rather tear off my arm than spout the kind of rubbish in your quote to someone like that.

As an aside, the protection granted by Limited Liability has been eroded severely in recent years, and there are a number of grounds for the wrapper of "limited liability" to be unravelled.

Legality and morality are two very different things.

Using Ltd status to walk away from a valid debt is one thing.

But the OP says the debt is disputed and therefore I see nothing wrong with using the Ltd liability in this case - that's partially what it's there for.
As long as the directors have behaved properly there is no need to remove the limited liability.

This is of course a generalisation but we don't know the full facts so only general comments can be made.

 

[internetspaceships]

I can live with that that's perfectly reasonable. My issue was with the comment that I quoted.

Regards

Jon

 

[Wild Goose]

Respectfully I have to completely disagree with your post and the thinking behind it.

Respectfully, eh?

I'd rather tear off my arm than spout the kind of rubbish in your quote to someone like that.

So I'm "spouting rubbish?".... gee, I'd hate to see you being disrespectful!

I feel an obligation to run my company in an ethical and moral way

Good for you. Whose to say the OP didn't do the same? But I cannot equate heaping the misery and nuisance of debt collectors upon someone whose business has failed with either "ethical" or "moral". More importantly, the chances are it ain't legal in this case. Sounds more like a spurious action from a vindictive creditor.

..and a lot of the people who supply me have become personal friends over the years.

Likewise! Some of the people who have supplied my business over the years have become such good friends they even buy me a bottle of wine or a diary at this time of year.

As an aside, the protection granted by Limited Liability has been eroded severely in recent years, and there are a number of grounds for the wrapper of "limited liability" to be unravelled.

Yes, yes, I already mentioned one: wrongful trading. But that's not the route the creditor is going. Rather, he's trying to intimidate the OP.

 

[internetspaceships]

Ok, I take your points, I might not agree but I take them on board.

I've said my piece and I'm not going to get into a line by line dissection of said points but suffice to say my points were not directed at the OP they were an observation of everything I perceive (rightly or wrongly) with this whole scenario.

 

[seanstevens]

Ok, I take your points, I might not agree but I take them on board.

I've said my piece and I'm not going to get into a line by line dissection of said points but suffice to say my points were not directed at the OP they were an observation of everything I perceive (rightly or wrongly) with this whole scenario.

This is the whole point of these type of forums is for people to have healthy debates on all issues. Both sides have raised valid point and I can understand both sides of the discussion.

It could be worse, you could get words such as 'nasty', 'vile' or 'evil' used in every thread when people describe your profession. The lonely life of a debt collector

 

[Geoff T]

This is the whole point of these type of forums is for people to have healthy debates on all issues. Both sides have raised valid point and I can understand both sides of the discussion.

It could be worse, you could get words such as 'nasty', 'vile' or 'evil' used in every thread when people describe your profession. The lonely life of a debt collector

Personally, I find life a whole lot better by defining what I do from the DCA's out there...

As Namesake and I will say - Credit Control is NOT Debt Collection!

 

[seanstevens]

Personally, I find life a whole lot better by defining what I do from the DCA's out there...

As Namesake and I will say - Credit Control is NOT Debt Collection!

Couldn't agree more

I do both.. a man with two faces with the aim of teaching any clients from the debt collection world that it could be avoided in the future with good credit control services .

 

[Geoff T]

Couldn't agree more

I do both.. a man with two faces with the aim of teaching any clients from the debt collection world that it could be avoided in the future with good credit control services .

Good answer! Smartie points to the "youth" corner!

 

[Wild Goose]

Couldn't agree more

I do both.. a man with two faces with the aim of teaching any clients from the debt collection world that it could be avoided in the future with good credit control services .

Sean, might that start with a credit score or similar on the limited company you are taking on as a customer?

 

[seanstevens]

Sean, might that start with a credit score or similar on the limited company you are taking on as a customer?

It would indeed. Credit scores (hard data from an agency) are a good start and give you some of the picture. I aim to also help people see that they should also look at the soft data that they can pick up.

 

[Geoff T]

It would indeed. Credit scores (hard data from an agency) are a good start and give you some of the picture. I aim to also help people see that they should also look at the soft data that they can pick up.

Care to explain "soft data" to those who may join me in the 'cheap seats'?

 

[Wild Goose]

Personally, I find life a whole lot better by defining what I do from the DCA's out there...

Like organising p*ss-ups?

I've been following your Welsh Shindig thread for some time - including the embarrassing pics. How did you all get home? Have the Welsh Assembly Government vetoed breathalyser tests yet?

 

[GRDCredit]

How did you all get home? Have the Welsh Assembly Government vetoed breathalyser tests yet?

Why do you think he took his wife along?

 

[Geoff T]

Like organising p*ss-ups?

I've been following your Welsh Shindig thread for some time - including the embarrassing pics. How did you all get home? Have the Welsh Assembly Government vetoed breathalyser tests yet?

Why do you think he took his wife along?

All mod cons up here - including a fun thing called "taxis" - don't know if it will catch on, but works for me!

Only Rhyl Lightworks and Mrs PWN were on cola, and driving...

EAT MY BREATHALYSER

 

[seanstevens]

Care to explain "soft data" to those who may join me in the 'cheap seats'?

Yes, sorry;

Hard data (factual) - credit agency / financial data,

Soft data - judgement such as:
If you visited them what was the building like? clean, busy? Area?
Equipment, new or old? up to standards etc.
Warehouse - busy? cobwebs from lack of activity?
Who else are they stocking? do you know them? can you talk to them?
Employees? did they look motivated, happy? hear any moaning?
Carpark - full? type of cars? more money spent on cars than anything else? i.e more about image than anything tangible.
Talk - how did they respond to questions about business conditions, plans etc?
Your own previous experiences with payments - getting slower?

there are others, not all are valid to all businesses etc but give an idea on being able to read the people that run the business and may give you a better feeling of trust.

Credit data on its own is good but obviously it can be flawed as most is out of date immediately as accounts are so old when filed. I currently have an example of one agency still quoting a credit recommendation of more than 250K on a company I know is going into liquidation this week because they sent me the paperwork.

 

[Geoff T]

Yes, sorry...

good answer

 

[Geoff T]

Yes, sorry;

Hard data (factual) - credit agency / financial data,

Soft data - judgement such as:
If you visited them what was the building like? clean, busy? Area?
Equipment, new or old? up to standards etc.
Warehouse - busy? cobwebs from lack of activity?
Who else are they stocking? do you know them? can you talk to them?
Employees? did they look motivated, happy? hear any moaning?
Carpark - full? type of cars? more money spent on cars than anything else? i.e more about image than anything tangible.
Talk - how did they respond to questions about business conditions, plans etc?
Your own previous experiences with payments - getting slower?

there are others, not all are valid to all businesses etc but give an idea on being able to read the people that run the business and may give you a better feeling of trust.

Credit data on its own is good but obviously it can be flawed as most is out of date immediately as accounts are so old when filed. I currently have an example of one agency still quoting a credit recommendation of more than 250K on a company I know is going into liquidation this week because they sent me the paperwork.

PS - with your 'debt collector' hat on - you should have added getting the Reg numbers...

Couple of good account managers I knew did this as 'SOP'... I LIKED them! Proper background..

 

[seanstevens]

PS - with your 'debt collector' hat on - you should have added getting the Reg numbers...

15 years ago, when I was a poor little credit controller for one of the Watch companies, our sales guys used to take polaroids of the shops and car parks as they drove past All the data you needed!!

 

[Wild Goose]

All mod cons up here - including a fun thing called "taxis" - don't know if it will catch on, but works for me!

Oughtn't that be "tacsis"?

And don't you just love the way an "Ambulance" is an "Ambiwlans"?