am i bankrupt

wgcltd · Jan 20, 2009

hi, can anyone advise... i own the leasehold and the entire contents of a small restaurant and have been trading under a ltd company... the limited company owns none of the contents and its accounts show that it has never purchased any of the contents, i personally have reciepts for everything as i bought the lease, goodwill and f&f from my own cash. the limited company, of which i am a director, is about to cease trading...what liabilities do i have if it goes bankrupt and can i start trading as a restaurant as a sole trader?

Ashley_Price · Jan 20, 2009

I think the best bet would be to speak to your accountant. Apart from yourself no one knows your financial situation better.

wgcltd · Jan 20, 2009

hi, thanks for the reply...my accountant assures me that our ltd company was only a trading vehicle for our restaurant and assures me that if the ltd company goes bust, that i am legally allowed to carry on trading as a sole trader as i personally own everything and the recievers would have no rights to the contents...i suppose i am just double checking ...better safe than sorry..

Ashley_Price · Jan 20, 2009

You wanting free advice to double check your accountant? Erm, don't you trust the person you're paying money to then to give you financial advice?

RobertG · Jan 20, 2009

Your accountant is correct. But if it comes to the bailiffs make sure you tell them that the company does not own any of the assets. The only thing that puzzles me is how you are in such a situation with the limited company if you are simply going to `carry on` as a sole trader. If it is a viable business why is it in trouble?

Martin P · Jan 20, 2009

wgcltd said:
hi, thanks for the reply...my accountant assures me that our ltd company was only a trading vehicle for our restaurant and assures me that if the ltd company goes bust, that i am legally allowed to carry on trading as a sole trader as i personally own everything and the recievers would have no rights to the contents...i suppose i am just double checking ...better safe than sorry..

A LTD company limits your personal liability (unless you have provided personal guarantees on money borrowed) - If the LTD company fails it dosn't mean you will personally go BR

You could set up as a Sole Trader, but keep in mind suppliers you have failed to pay (if you have) from the LTD company probably won't deal with you again. If you mess it up this time, and don't make it work, you will face BR

wgcltd · Jan 20, 2009

of course i trust my accountant, just the same as i trusted gorden browns financial policy and my mortgage adviser at the northern rock.. this is a forum ashley, its where some people look to for advice, free or otherwise and its also where some businesses also choose to advertise their wares...isnt it?

Ashley_Price · Jan 20, 2009

wgcltd said:
of course i trust my accountant, just the same as i trusted gorden browns financial policy and my mortgage adviser at the northern rock.. this is a forum ashley, its where some people look to for advice, free or otherwise and its also where some businesses also choose to advertise their wares...isnt it?

Very true, but you wouldn't stand in a marketplace and ask strangers how to solve your financial matters would you? You don't know who you're talking to, because this forum is public, so you don't know whether the advice you are being given is correct or not.

Dragon Media Group · Jan 20, 2009

wgcltd said:
of course i trust my accountant, just the same as i trusted gorden browns financial policy and my mortgage adviser at the northern rock.. this is a forum ashley, its where some people look to for advice, free or otherwise and its also where some businesses also choose to advertise their wares...isnt it?

If you could let us know the name of the Restaurant that will be good - I would hate to accidentally eat there.

wgcltd · Jan 20, 2009

dragon....do you do a lot of "accidental eating"? ...

Dragon Media Group · Jan 20, 2009

wgcltd said:
dragon....do you do a lot of "accidental eating"? ...

Your skills as a businessman are matched by your skills as a comedian I see. I doubt that people will be in a rush to help you on here judging by the way you speak to people, but I could be wrong.

vvaannmmaann · Jan 20, 2009

Come on children,play nice!

fred1222 · Jan 20, 2009

Dragon Media Group said:
Your skills as a businessman are matched by your skills as a comedian I see. I doubt that people will be in a rush to help you on here judging by the way you speak to people, but I could be wrong.

You were the one that had the initial dig. I think you're both as bad as each other.

Dragon Media Group · Jan 20, 2009

fred1222 said:
You were the one that had the initial dig. I think you're both as bad as each other.

I was reacting to the way he/she spoke to Ashley actually.

streetslocal · Jan 20, 2009

wgcltd said:
hi, thanks for the reply...my accountant assures me that our ltd company was only a trading vehicle for our restaurant and assures me that if the ltd company goes bust, that i am legally allowed to carry on trading as a sole trader as i personally own everything and the recievers would have no rights to the contents...i suppose i am just double checking ...better safe than sorry..

So i assume you have small suppliers would you be in a postion to pay them?

Because to close down and reopen and leave small business owners out of pocket is a little unethical i believe.

lesliedocherty · Jan 20, 2009

i love the use of the word 'actually', it really means 'get it right up you'

Fellowcraft · Jan 20, 2009

If you own the leasehold and chattels in your personal name, then it is not unusual to use a Limited Company as a trading vehicle for the business in order to ringfence assets. This is a common situation in the restaurant game.

If I was you I would form a new Limited Company as the new trading vehicle.

streetslocal · Jan 20, 2009

Fellowcraft said:
If you own the leasehold and chattels in your personal name, then it is not unusual to use a Limited Company as a trading vehicle for the business in order to ringfence assets. This is a common situation in the restaurant game.

If I was you I would form a new Limited Company as the new trading vehicle.

Yes and to hell with all the small business owners.

Yes it can be hard and i understand that people need a ltd company for protection but to carry on trading in the same place

If its not working close it down and move on.

And also is there the possibility they are now trading whilst insolvent as they are still operating which would then mean the lts status could be irrelevant and he could be liable personally...

wgcltd · Jan 20, 2009

thank you fellowcraft....thats really all the info i needed...we only use two local suppliers, which are both friends of mine, so they will not loose out..as for the likes of the energy companies etc....well........its a hard life isnt it.. thanks everyone for a very entertaining afternoon....oh,, just a quick note for my new friend dragon... if i ever get board enough to sit around waiting to have a go at people, then maybe we will cross swords again, thought i doubt it,,,,i am busy refurbishing my new restaurant. cheers everyone.

streetslocal · Jan 20, 2009

wgcltd said:
thank you fellowcraft....thats really all the info i needed...we only use two local suppliers, which are both friends of mine, so they will not loose out..as for the likes of the energy companies etc....well........its a hard life isnt it.. thanks everyone for a very entertaining afternoon....oh,, just a quick note for my new friend dragon... if i ever get board enough to sit around waiting to have a go at people, then maybe we will cross swords again, thought i doubt it,,,,i am busy refurbishing my new restaurant. cheers everyone.

So your not paying your bills but your refurbing your premises?

Sorry but thats a disgusting way to do business

You may not be paying the electric company because there big fish but i will be paying for your debt as will every other customer and yes if you were to go bankrupt you would need to have a list of creditors.
Also im sure you are now trading whilst insolvent

This is illegal

tom111 · Jan 20, 2009

I'm not convinced it is legally acceptable to treat one set of creditors better than another, simply because you like them. Then again, since you are unethical, it probably doesn't occur that the utility companies you are stiffing are actually owned by real people.

wgcltd · Jan 20, 2009

just one quick last note dragon...i see from your profile that your interests are..wait for it everyone!..reading, music and tv..wow...you must be a scream...slow it down a bit mate ..you might impload with excitement! get a life man!

streetslocal · Jan 20, 2009

wgcltd said:
just one quick last note dragon...i see from your profile that your interests are..wait for it everyone!..reading, music and tv..wow...you must be a scream...slow it down a bit mate ..you might impload with excitement! get a life man!

Yes we shall all make our self bankrupt....

Its people like you that have caused the credit crunch

wgcltd · Jan 20, 2009

streetslocal, if your company, of which you claim to be a director, was to go under, would you go into your personal capital to save it, or let it fold and cut your losses?. then take the unpopular, credit crunch causing decision to set up again in business or would you join the dole queue?

streetslocal · Jan 20, 2009

wgcltd said:
streetslocal, if your company, of which you claim to be a director, was to go under, would you go into your personal capital to save it, or let it fold and cut your losses?. then take the unpopular, credit crunch causing decision to set up again in business or would you join the dole queue?

I would ensure my creditors were paid where possible.
I think the main concern is your contempt for the serious issues here.
Your attitude seems to be oh it dont matter end of....

But it does matter you need urgent advice from a pro and you also need to ask yourself why the business failed and why you think it will be diffrent this time.

Officebird · Jan 20, 2009

wgcltd said:
just one quick last note dragon...i see from your profile that your interests are..wait for it everyone!..reading, music and tv..wow...you must be a scream...slow it down a bit mate ..you might impload with excitement! get a life man!

Oh no! Looks like i'm boring too! Those are all the things I like too! Nevermind eh!

Dragon Media Group · Jan 20, 2009

wgcltd said:
thank you fellowcraft....thats really all the info i needed...we only use two local suppliers, which are both friends of mine, so they will not loose out..as for the likes of the energy companies etc....well........its a hard life isnt it.. thanks everyone for a very entertaining afternoon....oh,, just a quick note for my new friend dragon... if i ever get board enough to sit around waiting to have a go at people, then maybe we will cross swords again, thought i doubt it,,,,i am busy refurbishing my new restaurant. cheers everyone.

Erm.... good one.

So another hidden identity, brand new poster says that what your doing is okay and that's good enough for you? What a poor way to conduct business. As it seems you are still able to trade, you have obviously just made the decision not to bother paying your bills.
To my mind anyone who does that is a low quality individual and is no doubt running a low quality 'business'. When you have run up debts that you do not intend to pay this time around perhaps you will post again asking if it is okay to trade using your mothers/brothers/cousins name. Of course fellowcraft will say "sure, it happens all the time" and that will be all the information you need.

I would imagine that I will get a strike for this post but I feel that businesses like yours have a negative effect on the economy and harm people trying to trade legitimately, and would like my point to be heard by the many many legitimate business people who use this forum.

Lee.

Dragon Media Group · Jan 20, 2009

wgcltd said:
just one quick last note dragon...i see from your profile that your interests are..wait for it everyone!..reading, music and tv..wow...you must be a scream...slow it down a bit mate ..you might impload with excitement! get a life man!

Those who pay attention will know what some of my other interests are, you are welcome to visit me and I will show you?

PM me for my details if you would like to.

xXPoppyXx · Jan 20, 2009

hey dragon dont rise to it mate, he wants you to bite, we'll all see him on ramsay's kitchen nightmares before long so dont worry

wgcltd · Jan 20, 2009

might i just ask you dragon, my dear new friend and friend of all corporate businesses to turn your tv off and cast your mind back about six months to an incident involving a business which had seen plenty on good times but turn the next corner to find itself in a position of financial trouble, the managing director done all that he could to secure everyones jobs, pay his tax , his vat etc.. struggled..on an ethical note...then one day, when all was eventually lost he took his wife and children out to a friends for dinner , after taking them back home, he went to the stables killed the family horses and dogs then killed his wife, children and eventually himself after torching the house....what a nice ethical end to a family....your opinion is your entitlement..run your own life , im sure that its very successful(thats why you spend so much time on this forum!),, i will run mine..

wgcltd · Jan 20, 2009

he,s already bitten poppy...hook,line and sinker!

An Oasis · Jan 20, 2009

Excellent POPCORN and make mine EXTRA, this could be good.

Dragon Media Group · Jan 20, 2009

wgcltd said:
he,s already bitten poppy...hook,line and sinker!

I don't think anyone values your opinion enough to 'bite'. Consider my words calm and deliberate, as I am far from riled by someone such as yourself.

As you have said, you have the resources to continue trading, and therefor are not in a situation comparable to the one you mention.

I suppose that I shall end my contribution to this thread now, as one gains nothing by besting a fool.

The offer to visit and share one of my other interests is always open.

wgcltd · Jan 20, 2009

thanks for the invitation dragon, but not only am i happily married, i am also happily hetrosexual and intend to remain that way!..though rest assured that should things change in the near future and you still spend your evenings reading , watching tv or listening to morrisey, i will take up your kind invite and put some spice and excitment into your life... til then cutie..CIAO!

davidshaw89 · Jan 20, 2009

wgcltd said:
thanks for the invitation dragon, but not only am i happily married, i am also happily hetrosexual and intend to remain that way!..though rest assured that should things change in the near future and you still spend your evenings reading , watching tv or listening to morrisey, i will take up your kind invite and put some spice and excitment into your life... til then cutie..CIAO!

I think it is safe to say that Dragon likes boxing or something of that nature....could be wrong

DuaneJackson · Jan 20, 2009

Oh look.

Another newbie that comes along with perfectly valid questions and gets a rough ride. I guess he wont be sticking around and becoming part of the community.

Way to go.

And no, his posts after he's had a rough ride don't prove that he deserved it in the first place. It's a reaction to the way he's been spoken to.

But hey, as long as you all feel better about yourselfs.

Dragon Media Group · Jan 20, 2009

wgcltd said:
of course i trust my accountant, just the same as i trusted gorden browns financial policy and my mortgage adviser at the northern rock.. this is a forum ashley, its where some people look to for advice, free or otherwise and its also where some businesses also choose to advertise their wares...isnt it?

Perhaps you read the thread differently, but this is the post that started the 'issues' IMO.

An Oasis · Jan 20, 2009

DuaneJackson said:
Oh look.

Another newbie that comes along with perfectly valid questions and gets a rough ride. I guess he wont be sticking around and becoming part of the community.

Way to go.

And no, his posts after he's had a rough ride don't prove that he deserved it in the first place. It's a reaction to the way he's been spoken to.

But hey, as long as you all feel better about yourselfs.

HUH?

Could have gone either way the OP started the slide that followed...end of.

deniser · Jan 20, 2009

Having read the other thread about "fights" I thought this one was a joke............ was it serious?!!

Officebird · Jan 20, 2009

An Oasis said:
HUH?

Could have gone either way the OP started the slide that followed...end of.

I don't normally stuck my neck out on threads like this but I have to agree with the above. The OP has managed to antogonise people and I for one don't think it was unintentional.

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