A simple vote: given the choice, would you keep this VAT reduction?

Given the choice, would you keep this VAT reduction?

  • Yes, I'd keep the reduction to 15%

    Votes: 22 37.9%
  • No, leave it ay 17.5%

    Votes: 36 62.1%

  • Total voters
    58

DuaneJackson

Free Member
Jul 14, 2005
8,642
1,100
Brighton / London
There's lots of discussion raging on the forums about VAT decreasing to 15% and ther various hassles, pros and cons involved.

Thsi thread isn't to debate it - but just to get a simple overview of opinion.

The question is:

If it was up to you whether or not we had this cut from 17.5% to 15% or not would you have it? No option to have another alternative cut on a different tax or a bigger cut in VAT.

So Alistair Darling phones you up for a bit of advice the night before the Pre Budget Report and asks you "Should I decrease VAT to 15% or leave it as it is?"
 

KidsBeeHappy

Free Member
Oct 9, 2007
7,371
1,573
Sunny Troon
I supply to end customers who cannot recover the VAT. So any cut in VAT makes the cash out of their pocket less, and the chances of getting the business just a little bit higher.

I think that as a forum for business people, this simple reality has got lost. I don't remember many people running around in 1991 going "whopee, a VAT increase, that's going to get me loads more customers!".

(Also, 15% is a lot easier to work out on the spot in your head than 17.5%)
 
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Imagine how many man hours it's going to take to change all the supermarket and shop prices in the UK. It will probably mean overtime and more tax paid by the workers changing the prices.

What they give with one hand they always take with the other.
 
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KidsBeeHappy

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Oct 9, 2007
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Imagine how many man hours it's going to take to change all the supermarket and shop prices in the UK. It will probably mean overtime and more tax paid by the workers changing the prices.

What they give with one hand they always take with the other.


It won't take that long. Most of the supermarkets can probably implement it in a matter of hours.
 
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M

Mortime Business Software

I voted to leave it at 17.5% for a very profound reason which most of the so called business people on this forum seem to have missed.

My reason is that my preference for leaving it at 17.5% is my way of saying STICK IT WHERE THE SUN DOESN'T SHINE AND GO FIND A STRATEGY YOU WANTON VANDALS!

Dave
 
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wood1e2

Free Member
May 2, 2007
2,313
174
Leicester
I am kind of surprised by this. But then, i don't think many of the voters supply the real end user. Lets get Estwig and the other builders on, and see what they have to say!!

Why do you not think voters supply the real end user?

How is a 2.5% going to stimulate anything? As I said previously, prices are coming down, naturally and through sales.

What if people are not buying VAT rated products?

Will the 2.5% actually be passed on to the end user?

Plus I also said earlier when the question is asked as straight forward as it has been the results can be abstract being that VAT reduction on its own is not enough...hence the No vote from me...
 
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estwig

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Sep 29, 2006
13,071
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in the cloud
Well I suppose the VAT reduction is a good thing for us, an example is an extension we have just started for £68k inc VAT at 17.5%. The reduction in VAT to 15% puts another £1,500.00 back in the clients pocket cause it ain't gotta go to the VAT man.

I have a strange feeling that one way or another their job is gonna have £1,500.00 worth of extras, so I get the money instead of the VAT man and the client hasn't lost anything.

Everyone is a winner!!!

;)
 
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sysops

Free Member
Feb 1, 2007
2,918
885
Get rid of VAT, and charge higher Income Tax. That way the tax burden doesn't fall on the poor quite as much. It would also mean that I can stop being an unpaid tax collector!

Yes, perfect, let's reward people for spending their money on things they don't need, and penalise those who have worked hard to achieve a good salary.

(I'm in retail, I'm not being sarcastic)
 
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Yes, perfect, let's reward people for spending their money on things they don't need, and penalise those who have worked hard to achieve a good salary.

(I'm in retail, I'm not being sarcastic)

Or we could just stop penalising the poor? I'm sure that many people are on the breadline because they spend the little money they have on things they don't need, but I'm also sure that there are many more for whom that isn't the reason.
 
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Yes keep it @ 15%

Why? As a tax when it was introduced it made sense, i.e. if you wanted something that was considered a luxury, VAT meant that you paid extra for the privilege but then you could afford to - so it was a well thought out tax.

Now it is a scandalous MoFo which those money wasting ******* in power just land grab through, total disgrace and what does the tax payer gain? Ferk all as far as I can see it just gives them more to pee down the sink, which as we are seeing they do very well.
 
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sysops

Free Member
Feb 1, 2007
2,918
885
Or we could just stop penalising the poor? I'm sure that many people are on the breadline because they spend the little money they have on things they don't need, but I'm also sure that there are many more for whom that isn't the reason.

Nonsense.

1. The poor should learn to live within their means. When I was a very poor student, I still managed just fine.

2. The poor get a hell of a lot of handouts in the UK, so don't start talking about them being penalised.
 
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wood1e2

Free Member
May 2, 2007
2,313
174
Leicester
I have a strange feeling that one way or another their job is gonna have £1,500.00 worth of extras, so I get the money instead of the VAT man and the client hasn't lost anything.

Everyone is a winner!!!;)

As i said no-one is going to pass on the VAT reduction, so there will not be lower prices to induce greater purchases...Although businesses will have extra money, to pay off the debts, if their bank lets them have any :)
 
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Nonsense.

1. The poor should learn to live within their means. When I was a very poor student, I still managed just fine.

2. The poor get a hell of a lot of handouts in the UK, so don't start talking about them being penalised.


Nonsense?

Many people living on the breadline do not get anything like the level of handouts reported in The Sun.

Why should they be taxed a higher rate of their disposable income for things that were designated as luxuries in the seventies?

The poor who refuse to help themselves, I agree, should not be babied through life. This is a totally different matter.
 
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KidsBeeHappy

Free Member
Oct 9, 2007
7,371
1,573
Sunny Troon
The vat reduction will help people thinking about big projects that are properly thought through, maybe even accelerate their timing. Things like household improvements, building work, the farming community, the food producing community, anyone looking at investing in serious capital equipment. Start up businesses who are investing serious amounts of cash in development. Maybe even the new website development where the trader isn't vat registered as they haven't yet started trading.

It won't really help anyone who's looking to buy a DVD, a website, or a tin of beans.

Which particular group of people are better placed to inject money into the economy?which group are most likely to take on an additional employee? Which partic group are maybe likely to help a small business survive the recession.

OK, it's not a quick fix, it's not an extreme reduction that's going to make people rush out and spend, but then the banks aren't lending anyway, so it's really only looking to help the people who have the finances to spend, and maybe encourage them to spend it now rather than wait and see six months.

These are very enlightening threads to read. I think it explains why UKBF doesn't have an economics and politics forum. Lots of the posters here are so preoccupied by the "amount of time & hassle" they can't get past that. Can't think about the impact on any business or industry other than their own.

I used to be an auditor, and I saw the amount of hassle caused when the vat rate was reduced from 17.5% to 5% for electricity and gas. And I can tell you that it took a multi million pound company, a few days to change and reprogramme computer systems that were written in languages such as fortran, with hundreds of different categories of customers, and tariffs, to update billing systems, accounting systems, cms systems, in the days before one software package fitted all, for million and millions of account holders.

Now, if they can cope with it, i'm sure that britain's small businesses can get the pen out, cross through 17.5% on the preprinted paper and put 15%, make those small changes to the accounting systems that will probably take less than an hour, spend an extra hour or two on the next quarters vat return. Its not really looking like adding "millions of pounds of costs" to small businesses to me.

It sounds like a load of old whinging to me.

(i will now retreat and borrow one of estwigs hard hats!)
 
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Nonsense?

Many people living on the breadline do not get anything like the level of handouts reported in The Sun.

Why should they be taxed a higher rate of their disposable income for things that were designated as luxuries in the seventies?

The poor who refuse to help themselves, I agree, should not be babied through life. This is a totally different matter.

But is cutting VAT the best way to help those struggling? I'd have thought the cost of the utilities would have a greater impact on people in that situation.
 
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