'Fixed price' Adwords campaign

Diverse · Nov 3, 2008

Has anyone heard of marketing companies who charge a set fee per month and claim to get you onto Page 1 of Google for a chosen search term?? Apparently your link appears on page one, along with the other sponsored links. So basically an adwords campaign...but you do not pay per click, you pay the company a set amount per month....(around £350)...

So I would target 'Christmas Hampers' and I know the likes of Harrods and M & S pay up to £4/5 per click in December?!

Im a little sceptical about this as it sounds too easy and I have not heard of it before...

Anybody heard of this/used the service or have an opinion?

Thanks

petera · Nov 3, 2008

I've never heard of this but i'd be very wary if i were you, it sounds like a load of rubbish. If they're not talking about sponsored or natural listings then where else would your advert be?

Diverse · Nov 3, 2008

Hi Petera...

They 'say' that your link will appear with the sponsored links, as if you were running an Adword campaign...(this particular company has a 'Google Adword Qualified Company' link on their website)...

directmarketingadvice · Nov 3, 2008

It's all ****.

Is it the company that claims to have a special partnership with google?

Or the one that claims they get a discount from google because they buy so many clicks?

Or is it some other scam I've yet to come across yet?

If you're in the "sponsored listings" it's pay per click and there are no exceptions.

It's possible that they're putting a limit on the budget so it's only spending £350.

(or £250 or £200 or whatever is left after they take their "commission" from you)

But, if that's the case, it just means they'll only show your ads often enough to meet that limit and the ads won't run the rest of the time.

My advice: if they're not being open about how it works, avoid them like the plague.

Steve

P.S. "this particular company has a 'Google Adword Qualified Company' link on their website" - that doesn't mean much.

It means they gave google some money, passed a multiple choice test and jumped through a couple of hoops...

It doesn't mean that google thinks they do good work - not that google would know anyway, I took over campaign google set up and it was a shambles - or that they approve (or are aware of) the way they're selling their services.

lesliedocherty · Nov 3, 2008

whats the name of the company

Diverse · Nov 3, 2008

Yes interesting Steve and you do know what you are talking about! They didnt actually say how it worked, just that it does!! I thought I would ask the question on here and you have backed up my initial dubious reaction...Thank you!

They are called Lavora Marketing Leslie...

lesliedocherty · Nov 3, 2008

Hi,

i agree with steve, no-one except google can guarantee you

Duncan_W · Nov 3, 2008

Looking at the website, they are selling PPC management. (even if they don't openly say it).

They are being very clever with their claims. I do not see any false ones, but they are definitely not openly giving the "Whole Truth".

For example

Q "Is my business guaranteed to be on the first page of Goggle UK 24/7?"

A: It's not possible for any company, including Goggle, to guarantee your website will appear on the first page 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. What we can guarantee is that your key phrases will appear on the first page of Goggle every day for one calendar month. Our support team is constantly monitoring your position. If for any reason your advert does not appear, please contact us immediately and we will endeavor to regain your position as soon as possible."

Technically true, but it skates over the biggie!!

Take the Hampers situation - Clicks cost £5 and your budget is £350/month or £10/day. Yes your ad will appear on google every day, but probably only about half a dozen times (given that there were around 2000 searches a day for Christmas Hampers in October, your ad will only appear twice in every 100 searches, which in my experience is a waste of time!!) and each click will still cost yo £4-5.

So when you call their support team to complain that your ad isn't showing the only solution they can give you is to increase the budget!!

Adwords is a great tool, but it is not a magic wand, and there are no magic formulas to make it work, its about identifying your market & targeting it using carefully selected keywords, but anyone claiming they can make it anything else but that should be avoided like the plague!!

Hope that helps

Diverse · Nov 3, 2008

Thanks Duncan, much appreciated...

I have my answer for them when they ring back!

Duncan_W · Nov 3, 2008

lesliedocherty said:
Hi,

i agree with steve, no-one except google can guarantee you

Not true, if you have an unlimited PPC budget, I can guarantee you a no 1 position on Google for any Keyword 24/7

.

AdwordsPro · Nov 3, 2008

I've taken over from a campaign like this (not from Lavora though - never heard of them). The guarantee was for a #1 position, not just page one. It was working for one important localised keyword, but the ad copy was not exactly compelling. A company like this does not have an incentive to get you more clicks, because it costs them more! Maybe they geotargeted it to a very small area.

Similarly a company that charges a percentage of Google spend has an incentive to get lots of traffic to your site - regardless of quality! It just shows that like everything you need to do your homework before you part with your cash.

Go for fixed cost management. I wrote an ecademy blog on this, just Google 'adwords management advice' if you are interested.

Duncan_W · Nov 3, 2008

AdwordsPro said:
Similarly a company that charges a percentage of Google spend has an incentive to get lots of traffic to your site - regardless of quality!

Go for fixed cost management. I wrote an ecademy blog on this, just Google 'adwords management advice' if you are interested.

Sorry Have to disagree. We charge a % of spend on Pay Per Click accounts with a spend of more than £1000/month. Although I have to agree, that it could lead to an incentive to generate clicks irrespective of quality, but that would be a pretty short sighted approach as clients would not stay long (we do not tie clients in with contracts)!!

On the flip side, generally, the bigger the budget, the more complex the campaign, so the more time you need to spend on it, hence a % seems like a fair way to address this situation.

But I would definitely agree with the "Do Your Homework" Comment

NMHancock · Nov 3, 2008

AdwordsPro said:
...It was working for one important localised keyword...

You're spot on there Rob, thats exactly what I think this deal will be. I am not one to bad mouth anyone or any company when I have no facts to back it up but I am guessing that they have never said you get to chose any keyword's your want full stop.

What they will probably put in the small print is that you can chose any keyword you want but they have to be localised to a small area, either geographic, using the searches IP, or more likely by adding a town/city into the keyword string, therefore massively reducing competition and budget spend, making more profit for them.

Be very careful, if it sounds too good to be true then it probably is...

Diverse · Nov 3, 2008

I did ask the question about keywords, I also added that 'Christmas Hampers Somerset' would not work for us and the only keywords I was interested in was Christmas Hampers and for it to be a national campaign - I was assured that this was fine...
I am thinking that Duncan is probably correct, I would appear on the first page, but vary rarely...

Duncan_W · Nov 3, 2008

Diverse said:
I am thinking that Duncan is probably correct, I would appear on the first page, but vary rarely...

Nice to know it happens now and again

AdwordsPro · Nov 3, 2008

Duncan_W said:
Sorry Have to disagree. We charge a % of spend on Pay Per Click accounts with a spend of more than £1000/month. Although I have to agree, that it could lead to an incentive to generate clicks irrespective of quality, but that would be a pretty short sighted approach as clients would not stay long (we do not tie clients in with contracts)!!

Thought that would get a response! I'm only saying there's an incentive - not that ethical companies would do it. Sounds like you are one of the good guys Duncan, but there are plenty that aren't.

As a customer if you want to check this look at your analytics and see if you are getting CPC traffic from 'not very relevant' keywords. I've seen some shocking examples ...

AdwordsPro · Nov 3, 2008

Diverse, if you get as far as to see the contract small print - please share!

nass · Nov 3, 2008

In the markets I operate £350 would buy you a #1 spot on adwords for perhaps 1 day on a slow day. I think it's all in how they describe their offering: if it's £350 for 1 exact 8 word exact keyword match geographically centred around timbaktu then sure you could guarantee that quite easily. But for meaningful stuff it doesn't stack up.

Diverse · Nov 4, 2008

I think I will find out more information from the company just to report back

Diverse · Nov 4, 2008

Now I am confused!! Can someone please explain the difference between Adwords and Pay Per Click...I always thought they were the same thing..?

AdwordsPro · Nov 4, 2008

Adwords is Google's brand of PPC.

Diverse · Nov 4, 2008

So it is the same thing...I have been quizzing them and apparently theirs isnt PPC..? Anyway, the deal is, pay £350+vat and we appear at the top of Google for the search term, we are up there 24/7 and no penalties for the amount of clicks...I am however unconvinced...but it would be a good deal for us if it was cosha...

directmarketingadvice · Nov 4, 2008

Diverse said:
Now I am confused!! Can someone please explain the difference between Adwords and Pay Per Click...I always thought they were the same thing..?

Adwords is google's PPC network.

There are others: Yahoo have "Yahoo Search Marketing" (often referred to as "Overture" (it's old name)), MSN have "MSN ad center" and there are a number of other small PPC networks.

People often use the words "Adwords" & "PPC" interchangeably because Adwords is by far the majority player in the PPC world.

e.g. if you were to say "I started a PPC campaign recently", people will usually just assume you mean you set up an Adwords campaign.

So, if you meant a Yahoo campaign, you'd normally clarify that it was Yahoo PPC and say something like: "I just set up a PPC campaign on Overture... man, that interface sucks!"

Steve

AdwordsPro · Nov 4, 2008

Theirs isn't PPC for you - you don't pay per click.
There are other PPC systems other than Adwords - see Yahoo & MSN.
But Google is where most of the traffic is.
'Christmas Hampers' on Adwords will cost on average 1.02 per click (in Oct) for a 'top 3' position, with nearly 15000 UK searches in October - looks like that traffic is about to double in Nov.
Their offer is too good to be true, unless it is #1 on an obscure Adsense site somewhere!
Interesting though ... go for it if you can risk the 350.

AdwordsPro · Nov 4, 2008

Correction, the average is 15000 searches per month, Oct is approx 27,000. Nov is 50,000+?

Nov 4, 2008

Diverse said:
Has anyone heard of marketing companies who charge a set fee per month and claim to get you onto Page 1 of Google for a chosen search term?? Apparently your link appears on page one, along with the other sponsored links. So basically an adwords campaign...but you do not pay per click, you pay the company a set amount per month....(around £350)...

So I would target 'Christmas Hampers' and I know the likes of Harrods and M & S pay up to £4/5 per click in December?!

Im a little sceptical about this as it sounds too easy and I have not heard of it before...

Anybody heard of this/used the service or have an opinion?

Thanks

DONT assume it is adwords PPC they are offering!!
It could be promotion in google base, ie the shopping entries
which is free at the point of submission....

They dont appear page one at the moment for your terms...they may around christmas

Suggest you start learning how to do that yourself too!!

Read the fine print!! - and ask them whether it applies to your keywords - they may be restrictive.

AdwordsPro · Nov 4, 2008

I would normally hope to get a significant number of the clicks available for a top 3 ad, but let's be conservative and say 10%. That's say 3000 per month, or 100 per day, costing over £100 to Google... I don't suppose they were quoting per day were they?! Maybe the sales guy got confused!

directmarketingadvice · Nov 4, 2008

AdwordsPro said:
Interesting though ... go for it if you can risk the 350.

Sorry, but I think that's terrible advice. You're basically suggesting that she gives her money to something that's almost certainly a scam.

Even if it isn't, it's not going to be much better than just using adwords.

So, balancing the probabilities, it would be a crazy decision to go ahead with it.

Steve

Diverse · Nov 4, 2008

Thanks for your advice guys, really appreciate it...

AdwordsPro · Nov 4, 2008

I'm saying go with it if you want to take the risk - having clearly spelled out the risks. We've all made it pretty clear what the likely situation is.

If you can't afford the risk, then:
1. DIY - there are risks here too, to be clear
or
2. Hire a Google certified professional (they should have a verification link to Google on their website)

Always get 3 quotes & a trusted recommendation / referral. That's the path of least risk. You can't trust everything you see on the web, much of it is attached to affiliate links where the 'recommender' is being paid to recommend. Buyer beware.

NMHancock · Nov 4, 2008

SteveGibson said:
...So, balancing the probabilities, it would be a crazy decision to go ahead with it....

Although i agree in part, Diverse could very easy get to the point before committing and provide the small print section on here, we could then have a direct look for her and provide a personal yes or no depending on the whole facts.

As Rob says, doing it yourself could be a costly mistake too if you are not using AdWords to its full potential.

Hope this helps,

Neil M Hancock

julianmoy · Dec 27, 2008

Lavora marketing contacted me offering first page listing and I took a months trial with them.Very poor service so cancelled in the first month, accourding to thire terms.They have carried on taking payments and I'am still trying to get the money back.I have since found out that Iam not the only person to have this problem.
F.S.B have advised me to seek a ccj against them which seems to be where its headed as they just refuse to honor their terms.My advice to anyone getting a call from lavora is steer clear!

SteveH · Feb 5, 2009

I too have had many problems with this company, they put obstacles in your way so as you cant leave such as requesting 30 days notice in writing then saying they never received your letter of cancellation, its happen to me 3 times! all sent by Recorded delivery, they sign each time a different made up name. Finally got them to accept i was leaving only for them to keep taking payments. Its how this company operates and manages its people, DONT NOT AGREE TO WORK WITH THIS COMPANY THEY ARE THIEVES

julianmoy · Feb 5, 2009

Please report lavoramaketing to tradeing standards it may get them stopped.Although they changed their name feb 2008 and proberly will again.
Did you get your money back?

The Dreaded Lurgy · Feb 6, 2009

This all sounds amazingly similar to another company called adwordsreseller a.k.a. sphere marketing, they too guarantee constant first page sponsored links with no click limit for a set fee. there is another thread on here entitled adwords reseller about them and they are about as dodgy as you can get, wouldnt suprise me if this was actually them as well.

I reckon steer as far away as you can!

sorry that thread is actually called google resell

Diverse · Feb 6, 2009

Thanks for all your help with this topic, you will be pleased to know I declined their 'most generous' offer as I did smell a rat when they were offering what seems like the impossible...

Diverse · Feb 23, 2009

I am surprised they havent been slapped with a legal writ from the giants themselves...especially since they attempt to pass themselves off as part of the Google Team...perhaps this thread should be brought to their attention...

julianmoy · Feb 23, 2009

According to other victims google have been informed about them.
Lavora marketing know about this thread as they imformed me that they "have copies of the slander posted on the internet" by myself.Mind you they also told me email is "not written" so slander might be the correct term? who knows.
Update:I have sent them a copy of cacellation email for them to look at as requested by Mike Lancaster (he sounded different?)
If I get a result I will let you all know.

serendipitybusiness · Feb 23, 2009

You are all right if it sounds too good to be true it is. A company guaranteeing you a first page rank is always a sure sign, as it is all relative to how many other companies are competing for the same phrase and how aggressively they are doing it.

However they can help you receive a better ranking or generate more traffic for you for monthly fee through link popularity and onsite seo. Most professionals will have a few options available to do this and will advise you but ultimately let you have the choice of the way you want to go.

Pay per click campaigns generally are 10% of the budget and can be any monthly fee. However check out what they are doing for their monthly fee as there are different levels of ppc management and time involved. How they are analysing the information and fine tuning it to improve your conversion is the key. It is more important that you will get the best return on investment than what you are paying the ppc specialist.

Hope this helps

myles-at-icomplete · Feb 23, 2009

What you want is a good digital agency, that also does PPC / SEO. shop around, there are millions.

my pref is pureonlinegenius.com

myles.

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