Online Fraud/Theft of goods

[a8star]

I am run an online shop. Recently I have been hit by a series of fraudulent transactions ranging from £850 to £3000 in value. All using Australian credit cards from westpac.

I sent the first order and luckily realised they were fraudulent before sending the other orders.

There is no way I will be getting the product back. I called the mobile number associated with the first order and a young black guy answered. It sounded like he was playing xbox with his mates.

I have reported this to action fraud but they said there is no way of following up or getting an update about the progress of my case.

Is there no other way to report this? Is it not theft and should be reported straight to local police station?

3 of the fraudulent transaction addresses below had the same IP address 92.18.115.xxx

1. The Address where the product was delivered and signed for.

dxxx mxxx
xxx fisher close
enfield
london, london, en3 6 wq
United Kingdom
T: 07926xxx838


2.

Axxx Dxxxx
xxx danube court
danube court
peckham
se156lp
GB

Tel: 07448xxx834

3.

sxxx exxxxx
xxx st peters road,
edmonton
london
n9 8jp
GB

Tel: 447818xxx720

Address 1 and 3 being less than 5 miles apart both with same IP address.

I wish it were possible to ring the police and tell them this information and they turn up at their door.

What to do?

 

[seoswat]

Sorry, but the first thing that jumps out at me is this comment here. I could not even finish what you had wrote.

"I called the mobile number associated with the first order and a young black guy answered."

I am presuming your mobile has video calling on it for the call to show this?

Anyway, back to the point,

with these things how do you send the items? i mean can you provide proof of delivery?

Usually your bank can cover these types of things, but only if you follow and implement certain processes. I would speak to your businesses bank first and get their thoughts

 

[mconridge]

This happened to us a year of so ago. A guy placed a few orders totaling a five figure sum. Orders were delivered but he would wait outside the address for the delivery van and then when it arrived he'd act as if he lived at the address, sign and take the item. Eventually the transactions were pulled by Streamline and we lost the money. Police visited the address but the person who lived there claimed innocence.

Made us very wary of taking certain types of orders. As usual, the business owners are left out of pocket, everybody else gets their money back.

 

[finleydesign]

I wish it were possible to ring the police and tell them this information and they turn up at their door.

This is exactly what you do! I had a meeting with someone high up in a bank many years ago, and he was saying that one of the big issues with online fraud is no one reports it to the police, the banks haven't been defrauded so they don't report it, but its a crime and the police would be very interested in dealing with it, chances are they are not just scamming you but many many other people

 

[a8star]

Thanks but apparently the police only refer you to action fraud website

 

[vmajor]

I just joined up to back up the original poster's email and to thank him for making his post. We also had two items purchased from our website with delivery to the address and the same phone number and presumably the same IP:

dxxx mxxx
xxx fisher close
enfield
london, london, en3 6 wq
United Kingdom
T: 07926xxx838

IP: 92.18.115.xxx

I sent an email to the customer asking for more information and the reply that I got was not written by someone with a good command of English that matches his very anglo-saxon name. In fact (without predjudice) it was written using very similar language and slang as the Nigerian 401 scam letters, and it was not entirely in context of the usual customer for our products (we are a niche seller). That prompted me to do a Google search which landed me here.

Banks are likewise of no use as all they care about is their protection, not ours, and our processor's attitude is that "if the transaction passes the 3D Secure/Verified by Visa step, then it is the issuer's problem".

So, thank you a8star for your post and I wish you good luck in case you need to recover your items.

 

[a8star]

I just joined up to back up the original poster's email and to thank him for making his post. We also had two items purchased from our website with delivery to the address and the same phone number and presumably the same IP:

dxxx mxxx
xxx fisher close
enfield
london, london, en3 6 wq
United Kingdom
T: 07926xxx838

IP: 92.18.115.xxx

I sent an email to the customer asking for more information and the reply that I got was not written by someone with a good command of English that matches his very anglo-saxon name. In fact (without predjudice) it was written using very similar language and slang as the Nigerian 401 scam letters, and it was not entirely in context of the usual customer for our products (we are a niche seller). That prompted me to do a Google search which landed me here.

Banks are likewise of no use as all they care about is their protection, not ours, and our processor's attitude is that "if the transaction passes the 3D Secure/Verified by Visa step, then it is the issuer's problem".

So, thank you a8star for your post and I wish you good luck in case you need to recover your items.

You must report to action fraud. If more reports are filed against these addresses it would increase the chances of police investigation.

 

[vmajor]

Yes frustrating. Thanks to your post I also uncovered another fraudulent transaction, this time going to but using the same IP address (now blocked) and a different phone number:

Axxx Dxxxx
xxx danube court
danube court
peckham
se156lp
GB

We managed to stop it before it left the country (we are not in the UK). So your post saved us approximately US$4000.

I understand the moderator attempting to protect the presumed innocent and avoid the lynching. Fortunately (and worryingly?) the deidentification/obfuscation did not actually prevent me from finding your post.

 

[a8star]

Yes frustrating. Thanks to your post I also uncovered another fraudulent transaction, this time going to but using the same IP address (now blocked) and a different phone number:

Axxx Dxxxx
xxx danube court
danube court
peckham
se156lp
GB

We managed to stop it before it left the country (we are not in the UK). So your post saved us approximately US$4000.

I understand the moderator attempting to protect the presumed innocent and avoid the lynching. Fortunately (and worryingly?) the deidentification/obfuscation did not actually prevent me from finding your post.

Wow so they are using same address for delivery. Same name also.

 

[vmajor]

Yes, it is rather odd. To me this means that they feel that they/he (you know that it is a he) cannot be identified. Basic reverse lookup of the IP places him in March, Cambridgeshire. I have no idea if that is close to any of the delivery addresses.

 

[scm5436]

This is why I am frustrated that a moderator of this forum has obscured part of the fake names, house numbers and telephone numbers. Victims can do a google search of the address or name used.

Is it really necessary to obscure on this occasion?

It doesn't seem unreasonable, this could very well be a case of a fraudster standing outside an innocent persons house pretending to be the occupier when the courier turns up - in which case it would be wrong to identify the exact house/flat, especially as it may prevent the innocent occupier from purchasing things online.

Though do I think we should be allowed to setup a 'fraud database' where we can share fraud addresses... but just not the house number.

 

[Bill1954]

Were the payments 3D secured ? If not and the delivery was to a different address to the billing address you should have made further checks before sending the order out.

 

[kulture]

Fortunately (and worryingly?) the deidentification/obfuscation did not actually prevent me from finding your post.

Thats the whole point, there is no need to fully identify a person, phone number, or address. There is still sufficient detail to identify an order when/if you get one.

 

[a4labels]

Oh dear....

Would you have mentioned if you believed the person you spoke with was a middle aged white Caucasian?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Oh dear....

Would you have mentioned if you believed the person you spoke with was a middle aged white Caucasian?

Oh Dear here we go again, you are allowed to use your brain to give the fullest details on a person without being labeled a racist, when the voice from West Africa is very distinctive and not spoken by many non coloured people

I assume you would also comment if he said it sounded like a well educated white man

 

[a4labels]

A reference to race was totally unnecessary in your post.

The recipients ethnicity had no bearing on your case.

You raised a valid point about online fraud, but I'm sure I wasn't the only one who's eyes were diverted by the racial tone of the post.

 

[Hunting Solutions]

A reference to race was totally unnecessary in your post.

The recipients ethnicity had no bearing on your case.

You raised a valid point about online fraud, but I'm sure I wasn't the only one who's eyes were diverted by the racial tone of the post.

I think it WAS necessary. Those who have been subject to these attempted scams will be able to verify that the VAST majority of them are carried out by 'foreign' folk.

That is a fact learned from experience.

 

[LukeEl]

Hi all, this forum actually helped me. My system flagged the Credit Card up as fraudulent, but just to make sure it was I did some research on it and come across this information. It is exactly the same information as stated in the above posts.

Regards,

Luke

 

[thomascole]

Contact the shipping company and see if you can have the stock returned to you?

Also I would blacklist the IP/Names/Addresses in your eCommerce system to prevent future orders or have them set to manually approved only.

 

[tubbylad]

The police are terrible in cases like this. I shipped an item out to a customer using parcel force. It was only £60, but the following day when I was checking the previous day's transactions I noticed it was suspected fraud.

I thought it would be easy enough to call parcel force and get it returned. I called to be told they couldn't stop it because it is illegal. I said you're having a laugh. They said no, because it's the "queen's mail" we need to make a delivery attempt before it's returned. I spoke to a manager, who spoke to her fraud department. They confirmed the same. Eventually I was told the only way they could stop the parcel was if I contacted the police.....

...So I called up the police, who sent 2 officers out. I explained I had an order placed on the website, going to London (where 99.9% of the fraud orders go to). The card used was a US credit card and the ip address was from Nigeria. They said they couldn't stop the delivery because no crime has been committed until I get a chargeback letter through. Once the genuine card holder has confirmed it wasn't them that made the transaction, that's when the fraud is confirmed.

Obviously by this time the person has moved onto another card/company/address.

So what's the point in reporting it? The police are useless. The banks don't care because it's not them that foot the bill it's the retailer.

 

[tubbylad]

And for what it's worth, without being a racist, the majority of credit card fraud that I've witnessed has all been from Africa.