Credit Card Chargeback

[Tigris]

Hi guys,

I ordered an item from a company which the estimated delivery was 2 weeks.

I kept getting emails saying it was delayed, delayed again etc.

In the end I contacted my credit card company for a refund (I paid on credit card based on the companies reviews, some excellent and some not). This particular part was hard to get hold off hence using them. After they delayed it 3x I ordered a different part within the UK that came in 2 days.

The original part actually arrived yesterday which I've offered to return. The company have asked me to stop the charge back and write them a letter explaining. On my credit card statement the original amount has actually been refunded but the part company are saying that may not be the case as they can prove it's been delivered now.

Today I've had an email threatening legal action. I said take legal action if you want for a £250 part but I'm more than happy to return the part.

If the original amount has been refunded to my credit card does that mean case won or...? I've told the company ile keep the part in the unopened box for now incase they want it back. There issue is that they ordered it from Europe.

 

[StevensOnln1]

When I did a chargeback against a supplier a few years ago, Barclaycard refunded the money back to my credit card straight away but told me that the supplier had a period of time (I can't remember how long) to dispute it.

Returning the part seems like a reasonable way to settle things and the supplier would incur further costs if they disputed the chargeback or took legal action.

 

[Tigris]

When I did a chargeback against a supplier a few years ago, Barclaycard refunded the money back to my credit card straight away but told me that the supplier had a period of time (I can't remember how long) to dispute it.

Returning the part seems like a reasonable way to settle things and the supplier would incur further costs if they disputed the chargeback or took legal action.

Apparently in there terms and conditions it says orders are non-refundable or exchangable as they order the parts from abroad.

The merchant have said apparently it's upto 72 days for the chargeback to be settled.

Not sure how long a merchant can keep delaying orders and expecting a customer to wait. Took 2 months to turn up. I was told the item was sitting in a dock in Europe and was due to be despatched one week, checked the following week and apparently it was still in the dock (In Europe, not the UK).

 

[DontAsk]

Apparently in there terms and conditions it says orders are non-refundable or exchangable as they order the parts from abroad.

Is this B2C? I don't think they can do that unless they are bespoke goods. Are they offered for sale on their website? If so, it's immaterial where they buy them from. Worth a deep dive into the consumer contracts/distance selling regs.

How long did the goods actually take to arrive? My Ts&Cs state customers must allow up to 28 days. I rarely need to invoke it with Royal Mail generally delivering the next day.

 

[Tigris]

Is this B2C? I don't think they can do that unless they are bespoke goods. Are they offered for sale on their website? If so, it's immaterial where they buy them from. Worth a deep dive into the consumer contracts/distance selling regs.

How long did the goods actually take to arrive? My Ts&Cs state customers must allow up to 28 days. I rarely need to invoke it with Royal Mail generally delivering the next day.

Yes, B2C.

Took 2 months. Looking at there reviews sometimes can take upto 6 months which is why when they kept delaying and delaying I thought it's getting ridiculous.

Had a letter from my credit card company today saying they've taken the amount off my statement but the merchant could appeal against it. Courier delivered yesterday, tracked so the merchant could use this.

 

[japancool]

Apparently in there terms and conditions it says orders are non-refundable or exchangable as they order the parts from abroad.

They're selling into the UK so are bound by UK law - which says you have the right to cancel for whatever reason you like within 14 days of receipt, regardless of what T&Cs say. Make sure you've made it clear in writing that you are exercising your statutory right in UK law to cancel the order. Reiterate your offer to return it in the same emai.

Then, if they challenge it, that's evidence in your favour.

 

[eteb3]

Afaik the delay itself is immaterial: time is not of the essence in a contract unless you make it so. That's assuming they make no reference to delivery times, and that consumer contracts legislation doesn't over-write that presumption.

Presumably the company will get a black mark on their record with the card company from the chargeback, maybe pay a penalty/higher future fees, hence keen to have you write a letter? I'm sure others on this forum know better about that. Might be nice to do that for them, when you return the part.

 

[Tigris]

Thanks everyone.

Just waiting on the credit card company now to make a decision.

 

[Tigris]

Just had a reply.

The merchant have confirmed they are refusing to accept the return and are awaiting the decision of the credit card company.

 

[Tigris]

They are now saying this
"
I have consulted our legal team on this, this doesn't apply to Custom-Made or Personalized Items: Goods made to the consumer’s specifications or clearly personalized are not subject to the usual 14-day cooling-off period.

Unfortunately, we cant accept a return for this order and we still have to bank's decision on this matter. Typically, this takes about 75 days to resolve.

I hope this clarifies."


Don't know if there are exceptions?

 

[StevensOnln1]

Was the part custom made to your specification or was it an off the shelf item?

 

[Tigris]

Was the part custom made to your specification or was it an off the shelf item?

Not custom made.

It's a standard off the shelf part. (Rear diffuser for the back of a car)

 

[IanSuth]

Not custom made.

It's a standard off the shelf part. (Rear diffuser for the back of a car)

Then reply saying - this was not an individually customised part is is a standard diffuser for a Mk1 Cortina 1600e as listed on your site (adjust to more modern car as fit)

 

[Tigris]

Then reply saying - this was not an individually customised part is is a standard diffuser for a Mk1 Cortina 1600e as listed on your site (adjust to more modern car as fit)

They've basically left it now and said "we will wait on the decision of the credit card company".

 

[japancool]

Not custom made.

It's a standard off the shelf part. (Rear diffuser for the back of a car)

Then ask them to explain how it was personalised or customised. Just selecting a specified size of an off-the-shelf product is neither.

 

[IanSuth]

Then ask them to explain how it was personalised or customised. Just selecting a specified size of an off-the-shelf product is neither.

yes and pre empt asking the bank by telling them that before they make a decision (they don't like changing their mind on things)

 

[Andrew Arderne]

Has anything changed, did they follow up with legal action or drop it?

 

[Tigris]

Has anything changed, did they follow up with legal action or drop it?

Waiting on the credit card company apparently. The credit card company have deducted the amount from my statement so I don't get charged interest.

 

[Tigris]

Just had an email to say the credit card company have sided with me, the customer.

The company I purchased the part from have now also told me this and said I owe them for the delivery and an invoice is to be paid (happens the delivery is the same price as the part) Lol

 

[DontAsk]

Just had an email to say the credit card company have sided with me, the customer.

The company I purchased the part from have now also told me this and said I owe them for the delivery and an invoice is to be paid (happens the delivery is the same price as the part) Lol

Under distance selling regs you can return for any reason and the seller must refund the original delivery costs, as well as the cost of the item, so you are NOT liable for any delivery charge.

The must also cover the return cost unless they state explicitly in their Ts&Cs that you are liable for it. There should also be no "restocking fee" either, unless stated in the Ts&cs.

Don't give up just yet.

 

[Tigris]

Under distance selling regs you can return for any reason and the seller must refund the original delivery costs, as well as the cost of the item, so you are NOT liable for any delivery charge.

The must also cover the return cost unless they state explicitly in their Ts&Cs that you are liable for it. There should also be no "restocking fee" either, unless stated in the Ts&cs.

Don't give up just yet.

Not sure if to even reply to be honest.

I've got the part on ebay now, if it sells ile send over the money even though ile be down ebay fees/shipping.

May reply saying ile send over the money once it sells if you won't accept the return (they have previously said they will not accept it back).

I have told them in the past take me to court if you want over a £200 part. I will happily return the item for them to resell. Completely unopened.

 

[Tomwirral]

Hi guys,

I ordered an item from a company which the estimated delivery was 2 weeks.

I kept getting emails saying it was delayed, delayed again etc.

In the end I contacted my credit card company for a refund (I paid on credit card based on the companies reviews, some excellent and some not). This particular part was hard to get hold off hence using them. After they delayed it 3x I ordered a different part within the UK that came in 2 days.

The original part actually arrived yesterday which I've offered to return. The company have asked me to stop the charge back and write them a letter explaining. On my credit card statement the original amount has actually been refunded but the part company are saying that may not be the case as they can prove it's been delivered now.

Today I've had an email threatening legal action. I said take legal action if you want for a £250 part but I'm more than happy to return the part.

If the original amount has been refunded to my credit card does that mean case won or...? I've told the company ile keep the part in the unopened box for now incase they want it back. There issue is that they ordered it from Europe.

The CC company have to return the monies to you as if it’s in dispute they can not ‘hold’ it, ( they can not gain from money that is not theirs, his or yours) sit tite and leave the money as it is. If it does end up in court then you can say that your intention was not to scam. Keep everything in writing and am sure the bank will sort things out for you

 

[Tigris]

The CC company have to return the monies to you as if it’s in dispute they can not ‘hold’ it, ( they can not gain from money that is not theirs, his or yours) sit tite and leave the money as it is. If it does end up in court then you can say that your intention was not to scam. Keep everything in writing and am sure the bank will sort things out for you

They have done now but the company has sent me an invoice saying I owe £200 delivery to make up for the part

 

[Tomwirral]

They have done now but the company has sent me an invoice saying I owe £200 delivery to make up for the part

Ignore it and let them take you to court

 

[japancool]

They have done now but the company has sent me an invoice saying I owe £200 delivery to make up for the part

Just ignore it. Do not reply in case you unwittingly admit liability. They would have to take you to court in the UK, and you can always defend yourself.

Do NOT tell them that you will give them the money if it sells. That could be seen as an admission of liability.

 

[Tigris]

Has anyone managed to get through to trading standards?

I've since given the company 2 days saying I would leave the package outside my front door to collect. I gave them 7 days notice to arrange collection and left the package outside on the Thursday and Friday, each day I photographed the item outside my door and emailed the photos over (no collection was made). They completely ignored that and have since given me a "final warning" to pay the full invoice. They have warned if legal action is taken I am liable to pay for both mine and the sellers legal fees.

They've sent me the warning letter with proof of fedex delivery with a signature. It wasn't my signature and the fedex driver put the box over my fence.

 

[japancool]

They've sent me the warning letter with proof of fedex delivery with a signature. It wasn't my signature and the fedex driver put the box over my fence.

That's irrelevant anyway. You've already said you have the part, so that bit is not in dispute. They cannot raise an additional charge after the fact of the sale. Even if that was in the contract (which I imagine it is not), it would almost certainly fall under unfair terms in Consumer Contracts. Point out that if they lose, they will be liable for YOUR legal costs.

Yes, I've called Trading Standards before. Didn't have an issue getting through, but this doesn't seem to be a trading standards issue.

 

[Tigris]

That's irrelevant anyway. You've already said you have the part, so that bit is not in dispute. They cannot raise an additional charge after the fact of the sale. Even if that was in the contract (which I imagine it is not), it would almost certainly fall under unfair terms in Consumer Contracts. Point out that if they lose, they will be liable for YOUR legal costs.

Yes, I've called Trading Standards before. Didn't have an issue getting through, but this doesn't seem to be a trading standards issue.

Did call the number before and spoke to someone.

I've been given a template to fill in and post to the seller. Frustrating they recommend first class, recorded. The trading standards advisor said post is best as it's more formal.

From what the advisor said in the UK you have the right to cancel orders before they arrive at your door. Failing this there is a 14 day cooling down period as well. This is set out by a UK trading law. Pretty sure she said "1952" but I would need to double check my notes.

Also as the item took so long to be delivered (from what they say on the sellers website) it's actually classed as a "Failed delivery" also.

 

[DontAsk]

From what the advisor said in the UK you have the right to cancel orders before they arrive at your door. Failing this there is a 14 day cooling down period as well. This is set out by a UK trading law. Pretty sure she said "1952" but I would need to double check my notes.

Distance selling regulations. Definitely not from 1952!

 

[japancool]

From what the advisor said in the UK you have the right to cancel orders before they arrive at your door. Failing this there is a 14 day cooling down period as well. This is set out by a UK trading law. Pretty sure she said "1952" but I would need to double check my notes.

I did tell you exactly that earlier in this thread. It's in the CCR, as far as I remember.

 

[Tigris]

Distance selling regulations. Definitely not from 1952!

My bad, 2015.

Will leave it, they can do the chasing. Like mentioned before they've had 7 days notice to arrange collecting the parcel which I left out for multiple days along with sending the seller images of the parcel outside ready for collection.

The seller keeps mentioning their terms and conditions which to them comes above any trading act/law.