Sage software question

[clyde123]

A question for Sage experts.

Sage is advising customers with small business software Sage 50 Accounts and Sage 50cloud Accounts v26.2 (published 2020) or below to move to subscription software because these packages use Transport Layer Security 1.0 and 1.1 – dated versions of the security protocol.
Sage is not offering customers the ability to patch or upgrade their software on a perpetual license. Those who have not moved to a subscription license by 30 September will lose access to their software and their data,

Right, I've got no problem with security procedures for software. Usually.
But my question is - is that literally correct? "Those who have not moved to a subscription license by 30 September will lose access to their software and their data,"

I can understand it happening for clients who use the various online / hosted versions of Sage.
But take an ancient installation on an ancient PC that never gets updated, in fact never goes online. Does that somehow magically stop working on the stated date?
Is there something already coded into the Sage software that will stop it working?
Specifically I'm referring to a standalone PC that does next to nothing except run an old version of Sage.

 

[johndon68]

Exactly which version of Sage are you using as, despite Sage’s wording it doesn’t affect all older versions.

 

[clyde123]

Hi John, thanks for response.
It's version 22.1.10.394
On a Windows 7 PC (yes, 7)

 

[johndon68]

For versions between 21 and 26.2, Sage used TLS1.0 to pass licence information between the software and their licence server. TLS1.0 has been deprecated and, since v26.3 Sage have used a later version. Their licence server will no longer support TLS1.0 from September so the licence part of the software will no longer work and versions 21-26.3 will no longer be able to validate the licence so access to the program and data will be lost which is why they are telling everyone (even those who have a fully paid for perpetual licence) that they have to move to a newer version with a monthly subscription.

Apparently, although I have no way of testing it, if the PC you installed the software has never, ever, had an internet connection while Sage has been installed then this won't affect you.

There is a HUGE thread about this on AccountingWeb: https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/sage-50-cloud-wont-work-unless-you-update

There is at least one person who claims to have found a workaround in there (which I've tried and, for now at least, it appears to work) and a number of users are apparently, trying to put together a class action suit against Sage over it.

John

 

[clyde123]

Many thanks for that John, it's very helpful.
This installation is for a business in process of winding down, only a handful of invoices per month, so no way would it justify spending money on a new version.
But it would be fairly disastrous to lose access to the history.
Off to read that HUGE thread after dinner now. Ouch - 347 replies on the thread.
Thanks again.

 

[johndon68]

Many thanks for that John, it's very helpful.
This installation is for a business in process of winding down, only a handful of invoices per month, so no way would it justify spending money on a new version.
But it would be fairly disastrous to lose access to the history.
Off to read that HUGE thread after dinner now. Ouch - 347 replies on the thread.
Thanks again.

Read only access to the data would still be possible using either Sage's Report Designer or Excel (via ODBC) even if the software was switched off as they don't do the licence check but, as things stand, and assuming Sage don't change their mind, without upgrading, you will lose access to the data via the Sage desktop client application when Sage turn off the licence server.

John

 

[ktsotr]

I'm on the same version number as clyde123 with Sage 50 Accounts Essentials.

My installation is within a windows 10 virtual machine and I have now disabled the internet connection. I hope they have not patched it with a time limitation feature to stop it working if it does not connect to the sage servers for authentication

 

[johndon68]

If the software has previously been able to 'phone home' to check the licence then it will stop working if it can longer do so, unfortunately just switching off internet access is not a workaround for this.

John

 

[ktsotr]

I have tried a new workaround. Installed the original cd (v22.0) into a new virtual machine without internet access. I had to install .Net Framework 2.0 first. Then installed the v23 (22.1.10.394) upgrade file. All works fine and never dialled home. I then changed the date to 2024 and open sage again to see if it will complain but it works. Certificate errors start to show once I enabled internet access.

I have no intention of paying monthly for something I have already paid for. So I would say best option if you don't intend to upgrade is move over to using a virtual machine. Keep your CD and update files. Might be a good idea to download the updates files now(if you don't have them) before they get patched to dial home. For clarity, I am using it for my own ltd company not clients so this solution works for me .....

 

[johndon68]

Problem is that isn’t an option for a lot of users as you can’t do MTD VAT Returns without an internet connection…

 

[DontAsk]

There are lots of other solutions for submitting VAT returns.

 

[johndon68]

There are lots of other solutions for submitting VAT returns.

Of course there are (I use one myself) but a lot of people use Sage’s own MTD module.

 

[johndon68]

With regards to doing what Sage say you have to there are reports on AccountingWeb that some users are being offered a full refund for the cost of the existing software and then free periods of use for the subscription version.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

have no intention of paying monthly for something I have already paid for. So I would say best option if you don't intend to upgrade is move over to using a virtual machine.

I would say say the best option is to just upgrade to V28 - for Sage Essentials I don't think this will cost much.

Can export vat return from the software and file with a bit of excel bridging software.

 

[johndon68]

I would say say the best option is to just upgrade to V28 - for Sage Essentials I don't think this will cost much.

Can export vat return from the software and file with a bit of excel bridging software.

I stand to be corrected but, as far as I know, Essentials (what was Instant Accounts) hasn’t been available for a couple of years now so any upgrade would be to Sage 50 instead.

 

[ktsotr]

I would say say the best option is to just upgrade to V28 - for Sage Essentials I don't think this will cost much.

Can export vat return from the software and file with a bit of excel bridging software.

Is this a free update?. I can’t see it for purchase or download. I am currently using an online bridging software at the moment

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

Not a free upgrade but I have seen it for <£50.single user

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

I stand to be corrected but, as far as I know, Essentials (what was Instant Accounts) hasn’t been available for a couple of years now so any upgrade would be to Sage 50 instead.

Essentials is, Sage 50 by a different name - its the same program with a few features turned off !!

 

[johndon68]

Essentials is, Sage 50 by a different name - its the same program with a few features turned off !!

I know, as it has always been since it was introduced 20+ years ago, I was involved in it's testing at Sage when I worked there

However, having checked, Sage discontinued it at the end of February 2021 so there is no v28 of it. If an existing user with Essentials affected by this TLS change wanted to upgrade to v28, they'd have to go for Sage50cloud Standard which, on Sage's site, is £72 per month not far short of the old outright purchase price of Essentials.

John

 

[johndon68]

Not a free upgrade but I have seen it for <£50.single user

Where? As I've just mentioned, it was discontinued in February 2021 before v28 was released.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

Ignore the Essentials part or the Sage Drive (cloud) nonsense- you just need to upgrade to Sage 50 Accounts V26.3 minimum to keep the perpetual licence software operational

As stated above i have seen upgrade single user single company upgrade for <£50. I am going to try it out and see what happens. Have an older version of Sage50 on one of my laptops so will try it on that and report back.

I have version 26.3 installed and I dont get the red? notice telling me to upgrade or it will go off in September.

I am sure that will work with single user standalone Sage 50 - not sure about multi user and Sage50C though.

 

[johndon68]

I was just trying to point out that v28 it isn't an option as v28 Essentials does not exist nor do perpetual licences for it so an upgrade to v28 for an existing essentials users does cost a lot compared to the original purchase price of Essentials.

An upgrade to v26.3 will solve the problem for any users of v21 - v26.2 and, in fact I believe that a number of people have said to Sage that they should allow users to upgrade to that version (or 27 for that matter) as the older versions have no commercial value to Sage anymore but Sage have outright refused.

Sage could have saved themselves a huge amount of negative publicity over this if they had just allowed existing customers to do it. It would have cost them nothing and they would have retained a lot of customers that they are now going to lose because of the way they have gone about it.

I suspect that they are working on the basis that the number of clients they lose will be more than offset by the money they make from those clients who do upgrade - they did the same a few years ago when they upped the cost of their Developers Program membership by 1000%.

John

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

was just trying to point out that it isn't an option as v28 Essentials does

sorry yes -meant upgrade from (old) sage Essentials to V26.3 or higher.

My version 26.3 is labelled as Sage Accounts Essentials

 

[Bob Morgan]

This sounds rather like BMWs antics with the Heated Seats

 

[johndon68]

sorry yes -meant upgrade from (old) sage Essentials to V26.3 or higher.

My version 26.3 is labelled as Sage Accounts Essentials

Essentials was available up to v27 so that would also be an option in you can find a genuine perpetual licence version for sale.

John

 

[PaulaS]

Whoa! What? First I've heard about this. We purchased our Sage50 a few years ago rather than go down the online route, it's installed on an internet connected pc with one other pc user linking in to it. It's version 24.2.228.0. In the thread above someone mentioned a red upgrade notice, we haven't seen anything like that but do we potentially have a problem?

 

[johndon68]

Yes, unfortunately you have a problem as v26.3 is the oldest version of Sage 50 that uses a current version of TLS.

 

[johndon68]

Another possible (and I stress possible) workaround that, apparently, forces the user of a later version of TLS here: https://forum.makingithappen.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=4311

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

As stated above i have seen upgrade single user single company upgrade for <£50. I am going to try it out and see what happens. Have an older version of Sage50 on one of my laptops so will try it on that and report back.

well upgraded to 28.1.404 headed Sage 50 Accounts Professional for - £36

 

[johndon68]

well upgraded to 28.1.404 headed Sage 50 Accounts Professional for - £36

I assume that is per month?

Love to know how you managed that, Sages cheapest price for Standard let alone Professional is £72 per month…

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

The Register understands that customers have been offered refunds on recently purchased upgrade packages, a refund of time remaining on the 15-year perpetual license when they move to the subscription model, and a 12 months free subscription.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

So they knew about this in 2018 but still sold perpetual licences!

"However, developers on a separate Sage platform, the cloud-based Intacct, were told in March 2018 to "Ensure your application is configured to negotiate connections using TLS 1.2 or higher."

The 2018 post explained: "Once Sage Intacct disables support for TLS 1.0 and 1.1, any browser or API access originating from a resource that does not support TLS 1.2 or higher will fail."

 

[johndon68]

So they knew about this in 2018 but still sold perpetual licences!

"However, developers on a separate Sage platform, the cloud-based Intacct, were told in March 2018 to "Ensure your application is configured to negotiate connections using TLS 1.2 or higher."

The 2018 post explained: "Once Sage Intacct disables support for TLS 1.0 and 1.1, any browser or API access originating from a resource that does not support TLS 1.2 or higher will fail."

It's been going to happen even since before that, I was amending software I'd written that used TLS1.0 in at least 2017 if not earlier.

The first version of UK Sage50 that was compatible with the later versions of TLS was v26.3 which was released, if I recall correctly , in early 2019.

The quote you have from The Register backs up my post on Sunday when I'd read this sort of offer was being made over on AccountingWeb.

John

 

[ktsotr]

I made a copy of my vm and tried top update my Sage 50 Accounts essentials (...hoping to 26.3) but kept getting message that no updates available. I also logged into sage to see if I have access to an update file which it says not available for me to download.

So does that mean I need to be looking for a reseller still selling a 2019 version of the software with v23.6 /v27 ?

 

[johndon68]

Updates are only for the same version so, for example, if you’re on v22, it only checks for updates for v22, not for later versions of the software.

You’d need to buy an upgrade to 26.3 assuming you can find a reseller who will sell an ‘old’ version.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

I assume that is per month?

Love to know how you managed that, Sages cheapest price for Standard let alone Professional is £72 per month…

This is what the seller said when i upgraded

"Sage 50 Accounts Professional 1 company 1 user , accounting software, version v28

It is Perpetual version - one time purchase only, no further fees to pay."

As mentioned previously it was no support contract, no upgrades , no cloud & no MTD VAT included.

 

[johndon68]

This is what the seller said when i upgraded

"Sage 50 Accounts Professional 1 company 1 user , accounting software, version v28

It is Perpetual version - one time purchase only, no further fees to pay."

As mentioned previously it was no support contract, no upgrades , no cloud & no MTD VAT included.

Good that you got it at such a price but I genuinely don't know how for a couple of reasons:

1. Sage don't have a perpetual licence for v28 of any of the Sage 50 variants and, as far as I am aware resellers can no longer offer such a licence. Article here: https://sageaccountssolutions.co.uk/2017/05/01/goodbye-sage-50-accounts-perpetual-licences/

2. Even if they did, I recall you said you'd upgrade to that from Essentials? The price difference between Essentials and Sage 50 Professional (at least when essentials was available as new) was the high hundreds (if not in excess of a thousand pounds) to upgrade for a one of fee of £36 would have been impossible - that sort of money might have got you next version up of Essentials but certainly none of the variants of 50.

John

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

Hmmm .... wonder if this applies. SJ Software used to sell V27 via a perpetual license

"It might be the case that Sage isn't selling the perpetual licenses, however is it still possible that Sage generated the serial number and activation keys for customers that purchased the product via an authorised Sage 50 reseller."

 

[johndon68]

SJ did and were one of very few resellers to offer a perpetual licence for v27 but they don't, so far as I can see from the website, sell them for v28 and Sage certainly don't.

As I said, even ignoring that part, given the vast price difference between the version you had and the version you have upgraded to I just can't see how you got such an upgrade for the price you did but, if it is a valid, previously unused, licence from a genuine Sage reseller then all I can say is 'very well done'... ?

John

 

[ktsotr]

Sorry to bring this up again. Is v28 the last version that does not have any of this TLS issues or v27?

I am seeing a few v28 on ebay. Are they legit?