How are YOU voting?

[Clodbuster]

Theresa May as prime minister? Could anything be worse? Government by soundbite

Brexit means Brexit
Strong and Stable
Enough is Enough

But no policies, no costings, no ability and no intelligence.

Yes - Corbyn.
High Taxes,
Maxed out credit cards
Five years of Labour miss rule for the Conservatives to repair then as usual

 

[Newchodge]

I think that you're just ranting now.

I can think of many things worse including a racist Home Secretary and a front bench that will probably resign after ten minutes like they did in opposition

You call that a rant? Even if you include the middle parts of my message that you edited out?

You should see me in full rant mode!

 

[Mr D]

Government making changes to Pip? May not affect you, I'm due to claim later this year or early next year.
Funnily enough governments tend to make changes to benefits. Labour have done it, Conservatives have done it. Not sure anyone can say that the benefits at xxx date are perfect and no more changes need making by anyone.

 

[Newchodge]

Government cutting funding to councils, affecting social care and the NHS. government cutting funding to schools, government cutting funding to police government deliberately antagonising the rest of the EU before Brexit negotiations start instead of trying to find common ground, government agreeing arms deals with the Saudis who help fund UK terrorists, government planning to cut even deeper, if they hadn't been stopped by themselves calling a general election which they claimed was unnecessary. No, Theresa May's months in office haven't caused a single problem. Much.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

I can think of many things worse including a racist Home Secretary and a front bench that will probably resign after ten minutes like they did in opposition

We had a racist Home Secretary all the time Theresa May held the office. Doesn't anyone remember the "Go Home" trucks?

 

[Mr D]

Government cutting funding to councils, affecting social care and the NHS. government cutting funding to schools, government cutting funding to police government deliberately antagonising the rest of the EU before Brexit negotiations start instead of trying to find common ground, government agreeing arms deals with the Saudis who help fund UK terrorists, government planning to cut even deeper, if they hadn't been stopped by themselves calling a general election which they claimed was unnecessary. No, Theresa May's months in office haven't caused a single problem. Much.

Just think, could be another 10 plus years of Conservatives in power. If Scotland leaves the UK we could have several more decades before Labour win again.

 

[MikeJ]

We had a racist Home Secretary all the time Theresa May held the office. Doesn't anyone remember the "Go Home" trucks?

What was racist about telling people whose visas had expired to leave the country?

 

[Cobby]

Postal vote cast;

Not Tory...
Not Labour...
Not Liberal Democrat...
Not UKIP...

I've voted Green

So you voted Tory.

Until we have PR, the first past the post system will keep the balance of power firmly with the two big parties. Nearly 5 million voted UKIP last time round and they got 1 MP. Over 1 million voted Green, 1 MP. The make-up of Parliament does not reflect the will of the British people, and deliberately so.

Question: Given that it's very unlikely overall, which of those big two parties do you think would be more likely to introduce PR?

 

[Cobby]

The thought of the Green Party gaining more than the one seat that they have is enough reason on it's own not to bring in PR

I think that you're just ranting now.

I can think of many things worse including a racist Home Secretary who became Prime Minister and now leads a party that campaigned for Brexit using a bus advertising a "magic money tree".

 

[Cobby]

I guess everything will be solved if everything is Government owned - including your business? If I can arrive in this country with just £2000 and a family - no job lined up, ten years later I own my house, university educated my daughter myself as I was not entitled to local funding and built up a pension pot. If I can do it then so can every other person if they get off their collective backsides.

I'm pleased for you (I like success stories!), but this touches on the topic of privilege from the other thread; suggesting that anyone who hasn't achieved what you have must be "lazy" is, at best, unhelpful.

 

[Clodbuster]

Not at all Cobby, It just means that it is possible to be a success in this great country that has accepted me in my need. There is no need to go cap in hand and demand that the world owes you a life.

 

[apricot]

Considering Liberal Democrats these days.. Only because they might go for a second Brexit referandum

 

[MikeJ]

The problem with that policy - and Corbyn's "a bad deal is better than no deal", is the EU would put the worst possible deal on the table. In the LDs case they'd believe it would be rejected in a referendum.

 

[Newchodge]

Not at all Cobby, It just means that it is possible to be a success in this great country that has accepted me in my need. There is no need to go cap in hand and demand that the world owes you a life.

You make 2 points here. the first is absolutely true. The second is what we calla non sequitur.

In a civilised society it is recognised that those in need are, indeed owed a life. Otherwise, the civilised society would give those people death. Which is not civilised, nor a mark of society.

 

[Mr D]

What was racist about telling people whose visas had expired to leave the country?

The problem with that policy - and Corbyn's "a bad deal is better than no deal", is the EU would put the worst possible deal on the table. In the LDs case they'd believe it would be rejected in a referendum.

Believing something would be rejected in a referendum isn't the same as something actually being rejected in a referendum. As last June proved.

 

[Mr D]

You make 2 points here. the first is absolutely true. The second is what we calla non sequitur.

In a civilised society it is recognised that those in need are, indeed owed a life. Otherwise, the civilised society would give those people death. Which is not civilised, nor a mark of society.

Depends how you define the civilised society. Those who seek not to be owed a life find they are required to have one if they cannot end it themselves, or risk someone else.
Officially anyway.
Unofficially there are ways...

 

[MikeJ]

Believing something would be rejected in a referendum isn't the same as something actually being rejected in a referendum. As last June proved.

So.... lay out a crap deal. Either the UK rejects it or accepts it. Either way it's not good.

Going in and threatening to walk away if we don't get a fair deal is one of the few things May has got right in this campaign.

 

[Newchodge]

So.... lay out a crap deal. Either the UK rejects it or accepts it. Either way it's not good.

Going in and threatening to walk away if we don't get a fair deal is one of the few things May has got right in this campaign.

Walk away from what? Our future?

 

[Newchodge]

Depends how you define the civilised society. Those who seek not to be owed a life find they are required to have one if they cannot end it themselves, or risk someone else.
Officially anyway.
Unofficially there are ways...

That does not depend on the definition of a civilised society.

Those who want a life are owed a life. Those who want an end to their life should be allowed the civilised means to end it. But that was not the original topic.

 

[Mr D]

That does not depend on the definition of a civilised society.

Those who want a life are owed a life. Those who want an end to their life should be allowed the civilised means to end it. But that was not the original topic.

But those who want an end to their life are not all allowed civilised means to end it. Right to die. The able bodied and some disabled can do it. Other disabled cannot... forced to have a life whatever their wishes.

 

[Mr D]

Walk away from what? Our future?

Yes we can walk away from a deal. Means no deal. Means other rules can be applied instead.
As a bullying tactic to get our own way with the other sides its not probably going to be useful. They will know the cost to us as well as we do.

 

[Newchodge]

But those who want an end to their life are not all allowed civilised means to end it. Right to die. The able bodied and some disabled can do it. Other disabled cannot... forced to have a life whatever their wishes.

I agree with you and I agree it is wrong. But is not a response to my comment that those in need are owed a life. If I add, those in need, who wish to live are owed a life, does that make it clearer?

 

[Mr D]

Yes it makes it clearer.

As I recall you and I disagree on how much of a life people are owed, by the state or by their employer.
And among other things that's part of what general elections are involved with. Deciding which bunch of politicians and their ideas should be in parliament / government.

 

[sirearl]

Not at all Cobby, It just means that it is possible to be a success in this great country .

If you believe that then its time you read our history ( estimates are 150 million deaths ).

It always amazes me how voters seem to have learnt so little from history when they vote.

Seems they ignore candidates history and are more concerned with how they look and sound rather than what they do.

 

[Mr D]

Sirearl - for most candidates there is only how they look and sound. Only those who have been MPs have a track record of what they do or don't do.

 

[Cobby]

Not at all Cobby, It just means that it is possible to be a success in this great country that has accepted me in my need.

It is possible! You are an example of that!

There is no need to go cap in hand and demand that the world owes you a life.

Who are you suggesting is doing this? Of the people I know who have to make use of the benefits and welfare system in this country, not a single one of them is lazy as you suggest. While I don't know your story, I would, without hesitation, say that many of them are *as* driven as you are and work just as hard. It's possible to be a success certainly, but there's this right-wing myth (usually driven by privilege) that success is guaranteed with hard work. It isn't.

 

[Cobby]

But those who want an end to their life are not all allowed civilised means to end it. Right to die. The able bodied and some disabled can do it. Other disabled cannot... forced to have a life whatever their wishes.

A good example of how religious morality (rather than evidence or logic) still dictates many of our laws.

 

[Cobby]

Sirearl - for most candidates there is only how they look and sound. Only those who have been MPs have a track record of what they do or don't do.

If you aren't judging a candidate on their track record (perhaps because they have none), then surely you judge them on the content of their speeches and coherency of their declared intentions?

Judging candidates by how they look or how they sound seems like the basis for irrational discrimination.

 

[MikeJ]

Walk away from what? Our future?

A bad deal.

 

[Mr D]

A bad deal.

What happens if one of the other deciding governments walk away from a bad deal for them instead?

 

[The Byre]

What happens if one of the other deciding governments walk away from a bad deal for them instead?

Chaos!

I am hoping for May to win, so that we can have a 'Hard Brexit' and run the UK economy straight into a brick wall!

Imagine the glorious chaos, as the thousands of trucks a day deliver goods that suddenly have to be processed in customs sheds we don't have, stored in bonded warehouses that are not there and all inspected by customs officials that do not exist!

And the same chaos will be happening in Calais, Dublin, Holyhead and Ostend and possibly even in Newry, as the Irish border closes.

A Hard Brexit and WTO rules? Great - the UK then would be the only country on Planet Earth that is not in some sort of trading bloc. Even the leaders of North Korea (when they are not biting the office carpet, facing a firing squad for not laughing loud enough at Our Dear Leader's jokes, or just disappearing under suspicious circumstances) realised that they need to trade with their neighbours, if they want to survive!

I like chaos. So come on Theresa, baby! Give me some of that Hard Brexit!

Give me back my broken night
My mirrored room, my secret life
It's lonely here
There's no one left to torture

Give me absolute control
Over every living soul
And lie beside me, baby
That's an order

Give me crack and anal sex
Take the only tree that's left
And stuff it up the hole
In your culture

Give me back the Berlin wall
Give me Stalin and St. Paul
I've seen the future, brother
It is murder

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore
The blizzard, the blizzard of the world
Has crossed the threshold and it has overturned
The order of the soul

 

[Mr D]

So need a good deal for 28 countries then?
Should be possible within a decade or two.

 

[Clodbuster]

Diane Abbott sidelined because she is a car crash - replaced by someone who voted Corbyn out because she felt he was useless - shifting allegiances.

What a mess, I cannot believe that they are a possible Government.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Diane Abbott sidelined because she is a car crash

While the Tories suffer a real car crash.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...onservatives-theresa-may-advert-a7776136.html

(I have wondered for some time if Diane Abbott has been suffering from a mental illness. She used to be very on the ball. )

 

[Ian J]

While the Tories suffer a real car crash.

We'll all find out within 48 hours

 

[KM-Tiger]

I still cannot decide. I live in a *very* safe Tory seat.

2015 was easy - UKIP. But that's done, if not dusted, now.

I think for once I'm going to be one of those voters who decides in the polling booth.

 

[Newchodge]

Diane Abbott sidelined because she is a car crash - replaced by someone who voted Corbyn out because she felt he was useless - shifting allegiances.

But Corbyn took the VERY hard decision to replace her at the worst possible moment for the party, because it was the right thing to do.

Which Tory would have taken the equally right decision to remove Theresa May for the same reason 10 days ago?

 

[Clodbuster]

Paul Johnson, Director of the Institute of Fiscal Studies does not believe Labour's spending is affordable and would not be met by the proposed taxation levels.

Labour is like a comic clown throwing sweeties to the kiddies.

 

[Newchodge]

The IFS is also unimpressed by the Tory failure to cost any of their meanderings through their manifesto.

The Conservative party is like a spoilt child knowing it will win without doing anything. because they are the party that should win.

 

[Mr D]

But Corbyn took the VERY hard decision to replace her at the worst possible moment for the party, because it was the right thing to do.

Which Tory would have taken the equally right decision to remove Theresa May for the same reason 10 days ago?

Why would the party remove its leader?
There are usually procedures in a party about replacing a leader. 10 days before a general election would not be a good time to do it for any party.

Be like the Labour party removing Corbyn 10 days before the election, they may be idiots but they are not that idiotic.