Private patients defrauding the NHS

People with private health care are keeping quite about it ,in case their premiums go up if they claim.

Dr Clare Gerada, chairman of the Royal College of GPs, said once people started using their cover their premiums increased.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...vate-medical-cover-costing-NHS-up-to-1bn.html

 

[Nuno]

Your headline says "Private patients defrauding the NHS"
Where does the linked article mention fraud?
Nowhere at all. It's a totally dishonest headline.

People who pay for private health also pay their taxes and are entitled to treatment on the NHS. If they want to choose where to go it's up to them.

If you disagree with private health why not raise an argument against it? Or is that beyond you?

 

[Podge]

Quite right, even if you have private cover the NHS is there for all to use as they will.

What surprises me is why have the private cover if your not going to use it.

 

Your headline says "Private patients defrauding the NHS"
Where does the linked article mention fraud?
Nowhere at all. It's a totally dishonest headline.

People who pay for private health also pay their taxes and are entitled to treatment on the NHS. If they want to choose where to go it's up to them.

If you disagree with private health why not raise an argument against it? Or is that beyond you?

Oh I give up ,I don't give a toss if the article mentions fraud or not ,you would have to be an imbercile not to see what the game is.its moral or legal fraud for the purpose of greed.

And you have no idea whether they pay taxes .:|

 

[Podge]

Sorry Earl but I've got to disagree.

Taking your point further anybody who could afford private cover shouldn't be allowed to use the NHS.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

I think it is criminal that those with private health care still have to pay the same amount of NI as the rest, even though the rest are a drain and those with private health care are contributors to the pot.

 

[Matt1959]

another thing, there is an assumption being made that people are choosing not to go private for fear of their premiums going up. No doubt some do, perhaps its not that big a percentage. Just because the Dr said the premums go up on claiming doesnt mean its safe to assume that huge numbers dont use their private cover anymore.

Further, alot of private health care is company funded? Are these companies then issuing directives that their employees should not always use it?

 

Since when have we lived in a meritocracy.?

Or 3 men cook a pie one of them eats half the pie and the other 2 eat a quarter of the pie.

How much of the fuel bill for cooking the pie should the guy who ate half the pie pay.?

 

[Nuno]

Since when have we lived in a meritocracy.?

What are you trying to say? We don't live in a meritocracy, and...?

Or 3 men cook a pie one of them eats half the pie and the other 2 eat a quarter of the pie.

How much of the fuel bill for cooking the pie should the guy who ate half the pie pay.?

If this is an allusion to the NHS then one million men and women pay for the fuel bill but don't need or want any of the pie. Some want a cupcake which they pay for separately.

But I am probably misunderstanding again, just as I misunderstood that a thread headlined fraud might contain something about fraud, and just as I very foolishly misunderstood you when you said Blogeris but actually meant Boris.

I must get the nurse to check my medications.

 

I must get the nurse to check my medications.

Bit late for that I suspect.:|

 

[mobyme]

If there is a fraud going on it's the bit where private operations are carried out on NHS property using NHS facilities for which the surgeons pay a fraction of what they charge the patients.

 

[MikeJ]

Oh I give up , .:|

Oh please let this be true.

 

[Frank Nesbitt]

My foot injury in Dec 2010 was a damaged ligament according to my GP. 9 months later I was still waiting to see the consultant at our local hospital for collapsed metatarsal joints. I then used my company private medical insurance and saw that same consultant two days later, the same 1, I had been waiting to see some 9 months. I think what the article was infering was that people tend to use the NHS and neglect to use their private medical plans for fear of premium hikes under the current financial crisis(which isn't the case). If such plans were used more often then the NHS bill would fall naturally through less usage. Em that ain't fraud just economic logic. Just ask Barack....Good Luck..Quo Vadis ..Frank

 

[Cornish Steve]

I think it is criminal that those with private health care still have to pay the same amount of NI as the rest, even though the rest are a drain and those with private health care are contributors to the pot.

For years, in the US, we paid to send our children to a private high school. It was a real sacrifice, but it benefited them immensely. We still had to pay property taxes, though, to cover the cost of regular school. It's the same principle. Similarly, even though we may use Fedex for all mail, our tax money is still used to subsidize the regular post office. These anomalies will always exist so long as we cling to government-run services.

What I find frustrating is the assumption that those who buy private medical insurance, or who send their children to private school, must be wealthy fat cats who don't earn or deserve that money. The truth is that some choose to sacrifice big time financially for the benefit of their families - in effect paying for those private services twice. It's a double-whammy to then be labeled as 'idle rich'.

 

[vvaannmmaann]

More to the point,what was in the pie?

 

[mobyme]

I think it is criminal that those with private health care still have to pay the same amount of NI as the rest, even though the rest are a drain and those with private health care are contributors to the pot.

It's even more criminal that people who go private can jump the queue and be treated in NHS facilities paid for at least in part by those people who cannot afford private medical insurance and then be treated by Doctors and Surgeons who have had their education and medical training subsidised by the very people they scorn to treat because they cannot afford it. If Doctors or Surgeons elect to opt out of the NHS or do private on the side they should get a whacking great bill for their training and have to provide their own facilities.

 

[123Simples]

I'm confused :|
I thought by paying our NI stamps we were paying for our own NHS Healthcare!
It's a bit like all the other taxes we pay - whilst some of us may not invest in "private" healthcare, pensions, sudden death syndrome - I thought we were all getting screwed over

The only ones who defraud the NHS are the ones who don't put into it - so in other words people who abuse the system by not even having paid their taxes or NI contributions. I agree with Cornish Steve about Government Run Services - you either have one or the other - not both. If you want some newsworthy reading on the NHS then cast your votes on the End Of Life Pathway - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20170811

Which is something I sadly faced earlier this year with one of my brothers, where unbeknown to me at that time, hospitals get paid for putting patients on this end of life pathway

Sorry to jump on your original comment though sirearl - I just got side-tracked

 

I'm confused :|
I thought by paying our NI stamps we were paying for our own NHS Healthcare!
It's a bit like all the other taxes we pay - whilst some of us may not invest in "private" healthcare, pensions, sudden death syndrome - I thought we were all getting screwed over

Quite whether private or NHS its the general public that pay for both.

I agree that its a disgrace that money is able to buy you life,but I guess its always been that way in various forms.

My original point being that people with private health care in not using it to save themselves a few bob in premiums are probably costing someone else their lives.

Also the point that those who can afford private healthcare are able to do so purely based on chance.

 

[Cornish Steve]

Also the point that those who can afford private healthcare are able to do so purely based on chance.

No, Earl. In most cases, it's through hard work and considerable sacrifice. It is NOT through chance.

Some choose to spend their hard-earned money on private healthcare or private education. Others choose to spend it on cars or exotic holidays or big houses. Still others choose not to work at all - and receive healthcare anyway that's paid for by the rest of us.

I, for one, prefer a system whereby we choose the quality of service based on personal priorities - and not as an entitlement to all no matter whether someone actually contributes or not. Why should I bust a gut if my hard work and sacrifice simply leads to services provided to someone who lives the life of Riley? My hard work is not chance, and their lack of contribution is not chance - it's choice.

 

No, Earl. In most cases, it's through hard work and considerable sacrifice. It is NOT through chance.

Some choose to spend their hard-earned money on private healthcare or private education. Others choose to spend it on cars or exotic holidays or big houses. Still others choose not to work at all - and receive healthcare anyway that's paid for by the rest of us.

I, for one, prefer a system whereby we choose the quality of service based on personal priorities - and not as an entitlement to all no matter whether someone actually contributes or not. Why should I bust a gut if my hard work and sacrifice simply leads to services provided to someone who lives the life of Riley? My hard work is not chance, and their lack of contribution is not chance - it's choice.

You may be the exception to the rule.

But I doubt you would have progressed to where you are if you had been born in a mud hut in the middle of Africa instead of one of the richest and advanced societies on earth.?

Yes you probably do bust a gut for others ,but not for who you think.

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=277128

 

[mobyme]

I, for one, prefer a system whereby we choose the quality of service based on personal priorities.

So you are fully aware that there are two standards of treatment and you honestly believe that someone should not qualify for the better standard because they cannot afford it.

 

[internetspaceships]

Oh I give up ,I don't give a toss if the article mentions fraud or not ,you would have to be an imbercile not to see what the game is.its moral or legal fraud for the purpose of greed.

And you have no idea whether they pay taxes .:|

I have a Company policy for Key employees and pay for Private Healthcare and have done so for 8 years. I'm not sure where the fraud is because I'm taxed on it as a benefit in kind fom my Company.

You pop along to your GP, and then get a referral to a Private Clinic if it's something that requires further investigation.

I had a lump on one of my cahoneys 5 years ago, and I was in, seen, scanned, and treated within ten days. Worth every penny.

 

[kulture]

I don't pay for private health. I cannot afford it. But I am not jealous of those who do. I think the NHS should be good enough that there is NO NEED for private health. That all the private health can give you in practice is a better room and a better menu, not better health care. I think the argument should be turned on its head. The NHS should give for free the same quality of medical service, or better, as the private healthcare. If it does not, then that is what should be addressed, not bashing those who chose to pay more.

 

[internetspaceships]

I took the view that I couldn't afford NOT to have it.

In hindsight I was right. People do seem to think that it costs a lot more than it really does. The younger you get it the better too.

 

[Team Leith Training]

I suppose my feelings are the same for private health care as they are for a private education, equal to all regardless of their social or financial status.

 

[Matt1959]

I don't pay for private health. I cannot afford it. But I am not jealous of those who do. I think the NHS should be good enough that there is NO NEED for private health. That all the private health can give you in practice is a better room and a better menu, not better health care. I think the argument should be turned on its head. The NHS should give for free the same quality of medical service, or better, as the private healthcare. If it does not, then that is what should be addressed, not bashing those who chose to pay more.

I think private healthcare is all about as you say, a better room and a better menu as historically its the NHS that is brilliant at dealing with critical health issues. The one area where private care does score is jumping waiting lists to see consultants. Fortunately or unfortunaetly depending on how you look at it, the opportunity exists for those that dont have private care but who are willing to pay £150, to see a consultant within days rather than months. I've taken advantage of this system more than once... at the end of the day self preservation rules...

 

[internetspaceships]

I suppose my feelings are the same for private health care as they are for a private education, equal to all regardless of their social or financial status.

As much as you can hope and pray for a society that's equal for all, it's never going to happen in your lifetime or my lifetime or the lifetime of our grandchildren.

It never even happened in the communist countries where this was the mantra of communism, so you're completely wasting your time having this attitude Sir.

It's intriguing that most of the people who maintain this attitude are those who aren't at the point where they can pay for private medical cover, because I promise you that if you could, you would grasp it with both hands.

And you know you would. For the benefit of your children if nothing else, and please don't try and tell me any different.

For the record, when I took it out, I couldn't strictly speaking afford it, but I saw that the benefits outweighed the costs.

So I worked harder to pay for the extra outlay.

 

[internetspaceships]

I think private healthcare is all about as you say, a better room and a better menu as historically its the NHS that is brilliant at dealing with critical health issues. The one area where private care does score is jumping waiting lists to see consultants. Fortunately or unfortunaetly depending on how you look at it, the opportunity exists for those that dont have private care but who are willing to pay £150, to see a consultant within days rather than months. I've taken advantage of this system more than once... at the end of the day self preservation rules...

Matt I completely agree. My dad is a retired GP and as far as acute conditions/treatments are concerned he always maintained that the NHS was second to none.

For conditions that need consultations however, that may benefit from faster appointments, and resulting operations/treatment, Private Medical Care rocks.

 

[Cornish Steve]

But I doubt you would have progressed to where you are if you had been born in a mud hut in the middle of Africa instead of one of the richest and advanced societies on earth.?

But that's irrelevant, Earl. We're talking about people living in Britain. Those living in the poorest parts of the world have no access to our healthcare system anyway. Residents of Britain choose whether to spend their money on private healthcare or on other things; it's not chance.

 

[Cornish Steve]

So you are fully aware that there are two standards of treatment and you honestly believe that someone should not qualify for the better standard because they cannot afford it.

Yes. That's correct. While there are some exceptions, the big majority have the capacity to earn the necessary funds, and sacrifice in other ways, if they wish to choose private schools or private medicine. At one point, I worked incredibly long hours and we went without holidays for many years so we could afford to send our children to a private school. In addition, we have donated to charities that help those who really are in desperate need to afford the same thing. We had to weigh our priorities: vacations or private school? When at university, it was lunches versus textbooks. We shouldn't expect all options to be given on a plate.

 

But that's irrelevant, Earl. We're talking about people living in Britain. Those living in the poorest parts of the world have no access to our healthcare system anyway. Residents of Britain choose whether to spend their money on private healthcare or on other things; it's not chance.

Same thing applies to people born in Britain ,unless of course you don't think Darwin got it right?

I doubt if the 25% of the population that are living on the MW or less would find private health care available to them even if they wanted it.

The revolution will come as history will show the greater the inequality the more its likely

 

[mobyme]

It's intriguing that most of the people who maintain this attitude are those who aren't at the point where they can pay for private medical cover, because I promise you that if you could, you would grasp it with both hands.

Just not true. I can easily afford private health but would not dream of it. To me anybody who pays their way to the front of a queue for medical treatment is no better than the man who urinates in the river just upstream from where people go to drink.

 

[internetspaceships]

Same thing applies to people born in Britain ,unless of course you don't think Darwin got it right?

I doubt if the 25% of the population that are living on the MW or less would find private health care available to them even if they wanted it.

The revolution will come as history will show the greater the inequality the more its likely

Who do you think you are? Wolfie Smith?

At least people who have no income at all GET healthcare to the same standards as anyone else is entitled to in this country.

Remember that's FULL healthcare, not a cut down "on the cheap" version.

 

Yes. That's correct. While there are some exceptions, the big majority have the capacity to earn the necessary funds, and sacrifice in other ways,

Do you mean eating and keeping warm.

Only 11.7% of the uk population have private health care,and only 1 million pay for it themselves.?:|

 

[internetspaceships]

Just not true. I can easily afford private health but would not dream of it. To me anybody who pays their way to the front of a queue for medical treatment is no better than the man who urinates in the river just upstream from where people go to drink.

I said "most." You're just being offensive for the sake of it. #failmoby.

As per bloody usual you're lashing out at people who don't see things your way.

 

As much as you can hope and pray for a society that's equal for all, it's never going to happen in your lifetime or my lifetime or the lifetime of our grandchildren.

I'm sure the of russia zsar thought that,not to mention the French revolution or Cuba and the many revolutions going on in the Arab spring and various other parts of the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_revolutions_and_rebellions

 

[internetspaceships]

I'm sure the of russia zsar thought that,not to mention the French revolution or Cuba and the many revolutions going on in the Arab spring and various other parts of the world.

I've already countered that one Earl. None of those are good examples because the resulting elite in all those still got their "perks" and special treatment.

Do keep up old chap.

 

[mobyme]

I said "most." You're just being offensive for the sake of it. #failmoby.

As per bloody usual you're lashing out at people who don't see things your way.

Get a grip. You said "because I promise you that if you could, you would grasp it with both hands." I am saying that I wouldn't even though I can. I happen to think that it is immoral; you don't. What is "lashing out" about that?

 

[internetspaceships]

Get a grip. You said "because I promise you that if you could, you would grasp it with both hands." I am saying that I wouldn't even though I can. I happen to think that it is immoral; you don't. What is "lashing out" about that?

The analogy about people who take private healthcare was offensive. Don't be obtuse, and get a grip dear chap.

If and when (and I hope it never happens) you take one of your loved ones to the doctors and he/she says- "it's serious and you will wait a month for a consultation BUT I can give you a private referral which will get you in, within a few days," I trust you'll recall what you called people who do this.

Urinating upstream from people who drink was the phrase you used.

Trust me, at that point you'll be rushing to unzip your flies.

 

[Matt1959]

the acid test for those faced with a healthcare choice is when your nearest and dearest is in need and you have a choice - see a consultant on the NHS within 6 weeks (hopefully) or go private for an appt by the end of the week for £150....happened with my missus for a lump on her breast (which turned out fine)...

I suppose I can admire the principles of someone who can easily afford £150 who chooses to wait 6 weeks, trouble is, inevitably its not you that is in need....its your kids etc