Availability, booking and payment engine advice required

[british steve]

I am looking for a booking platform similar to a hotel booking system that give the our customers product availability, the chance to book and make payment via the web. I have looked around but have struggled to find anything that will work for what we want. Any ideas? Advice?


Would prefer to buy software.

 

[Rudi]

Well it depends what type of product you're actually offering, how the availability works etc.

A custom solution could work out cheaper, depending on what you wanted.

You have to make the choice of how you want people to pay: Paypal, WorldPay, SecPay, Sage Pay, etc. etc.
You have to make the decision of how your availability works: Do you define places per day? Places per week? The frequency of the bookings?

There are lots more options it just depends what you want, with a little more description I'm sure we could help to find an off-the-shelf solution, but at the same time it could point to you requiring a more custom solution

 

[darren atkinson]

I realise you said you wanted to purchase a package however I wouldn't rule out getting a web app developed specifically for you instead.

There are risks but mainly the biggest issue is finding somebody reputable to do this for you and getting it built so that somebody else could update functionality at a later date so that you're not tied to just one developer.

A custom built app could be tailored for your exact needs and could easily be integrated into an existing website giving your customers a streamlined experience.

Costs might not be as bad as you first think, the availability and booking engine wouldn't take a competent developer too long to put together and then payment pages are fairly standard now a days so again, not too much of an issue.

It could be worth your time putting together a spec for the app detailing exactly what you want it to do then post it in the tender section of this website, alternatively you could post them on places like Elance or odesk to get quotes on building the app.

You don't have to get it carried out but it would give you a good idea on costs and what might be possible.

 

[british steve]

Its for the LED screen hire company. We hire out the screens for mobile advertising and live stage shows. We also offer other forms of mobile advertising.At the moment we only have 3 screens with several more on order (new business) but by the end of this year we will have more than 15 screens with the biggest one being a truck mounted 38ft wide monster. We plan to open a small number of depots around the UK so we can offer a better national service.

In addition to the screen hire we also hire out Adbikes etc so would like to build the whole thing in to one product offering covering all product bookings.

By the end of next year I would expect to have around 40 screens and over 100 adbikes with 5 depots around the UK

Quite happy to pay for a custom solution if thats what it takes (as long as I own the software once built)

 

[yourmajesty]

Software there is none online applications try bopoking bug at around 30 pounds a month. A bespoke custom built solution can be from 10-20k

 

[darren atkinson]

A bespoke custom built solution can be from 10-20k

I don't really agree with this, I once wrote a .net booking application which had an availability calendar and checker built in in a couple of afternoons for a previous employer many years ago.

While I'm proficient in .net coding I am by no means an expert, so for an expert doing it and adding some polish and a payment option it shouldn't be a massive undertaking at all.

I also outsourced a bigger project than this using Elance and got a fully completed and working application back for around £700, all the functionality I wanted was built in and it simply needed restyling using CSS to make it a very good looking and functioning web app.

Your estimates are way off the mark.

 

[british steve]

Be quite nice if I could include customers postcode so that it selects vehicles/screens from their either nearest or next nearest location dont want to be driving screens around anymore than we have too with the cost of fuel etc.

I dont mind paying but I have to agree £10 - £20k does sound a little bit expensive!

 

[cmcp]

up to date paf style systems will set you back a few k from the outset. might be easier to integrate some kind of map lookup in the process using google or bing.

i'd aim for modding an open source system and aim for around the £5k mark, that should buy you 2 weeks solid dev time. all very rough estimates, could easily double. spec it out as clearly as you can up front.

 

[darren atkinson]

up to date paf style systems will set you back a few k from the outset. might be easier to integrate some kind of map lookup in the process using google or bing.

i'd aim for modding an open source system and aim for around the £5k mark, that should buy you 2 weeks solid dev time. all very rough estimates, could easily double. spec it out as clearly as you can up front.

Integrating into Google / Bing maps might be a solution but again I have to say that overall £5k sounds high to me...

Regarding post code lookup, a service such as: http://www.simply-postcode-lookup.com/pricing_nearest.htm would probably cost him around £250 a year based on 1000 uses per month, and I'm sure if he was getting 1000 a month booking equipment then the jump to the next pricing tier at 400 wouldn't be an issue for him either.

If you are interested in a custom solution I think the best thing to do would be to fully spec out the minimum requirements of the system, then list the 'nice to haves' such as post code lookups and ask for quotes based on the minimum spec and ask for itemised quotes on the extras.

Both ballpark figures mentioned here seem way too high in my experience.

 

[british steve]

1000 uses per month

I would love to think that this many people will book up and spend between £5k and £80K on hiring a big screen!!!

Could pack up work and go and live in spain by Xmas! Whoopee!

Doing a detailed spec right now.

 

[bdw]

I built something like this into a site that does Segway tours in Nicosia. The application lets you set up slots for each day with so many bookings per slot according to the Segways that are available. In other words they can set up the number of tours per day and the number of Segways that are available for each tour.

It's pretty close to what you need, quite flexible and could possibly be adapted to do the postcode thing. http://www.segwaystationcyprus.com/booknicosiatours.html. They will also do custom modifications for you.

I got it from these guys for $39, http://www.phpjabbers.com/event-booking-calendar/. The also offer a developer licence for $99.


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[yourmajesty]

Darren that was for a new airline we bid on and won the business to design the website. It needed a dynamic pricing database. Anyway. Let not argue over that like I say booking bug is best at around 20 pounds a month.

 

[bdw]

A bespoke custom built solution can be from 10-20k

I have to agree with Darren here. This should not cost anything close to £10K and as I say I got a customisable solution for $39.

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[stugster]

I dont mind paying but I have to agree £10 - £20k does sound a little bit expensive!

That's because it is. A realistic figure for developing something like that in PHP/MySQL would be £3-4k.

 

[british steve]

I got it from these guys for $39, http://www.phpjabbers.com/event-booking-calendar/. The also offer a developer licence for $99.

Good tip off, thanks for that. Have a great car rental scrip that can be adapted to suit. Have fired off an email to them to see if they can do the custom work for me.

 

[bdw]

Have fired off an email to them to see if they can do the custom work for me.

As a matter of interest can you let us know how much they quote you?

A realistic figure for developing something like that in PHP/MySQL would be £3-4k.

Actually I don't think you even have to pay that amount. I have an associate who would do this for under £1K.

The thing with these scripts is that the developers often start with an existing script that either they or someone else has developed in the past. In this case they only have to modify it to suit. Probably a day's work for a good coder.

Just about anything that could be required of a calendar or booking script has already been developed somewhere. the trick is in finding it.


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[stugster]

Ah, I'd be looking for a full security audit if they used pre-existing code. I'd expect full testing and bug tracking, and some sort of maintenance to be done on a reasonable period after putting the code in place to ensure it was working as intended.

The last thing I'd want in a business environment is to pay for a substandard solution at cheap rates to find the coder has gone after the job's done, or worse, the code ends up compromised.

I do agree that in certain situations though, that it could be done much cheaper, as in your example.

My 3-4k estimate included the ability to rent a van based on postcode location too though.

 

[Rudi]

Existing systems that are then modified are generally not flexible enough to adapt for future and would need the same amount of work doing for a minor change to business process in the future. This is why you'd expect to pay more for a full system from a good developer that should be written in a way that allows for minor changes with little work.

In reality it completely depends on what you want and thus is entirely circumstantial.

 

[bdw]

In reality it completely depends on what you want and thus is entirely circumstantial.

Yup! That's what it's all about.

.

 

[cmcp]

I have to agree with Darren here. This should not cost anything close to £10K and as I say I got a customisable solution for $39.

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I've just taken a look at the markup generated, and it's crap. The audit requred at every stage (db, php, html, js) will take up your £1k budget from an experienced developer (of which I budgeted £500pd for my estimate).

Like Stu says, it's all about risk. Of course anyone can cobble together scripts from these cheap repositories, but you instantly don't have a view on the stability of your core functionality.

Upshot, you get what you pay for.

 

[Rudi]

Steve, did you manage to put together a detailed specification of your requirements?

If you could post that to us here then we could probably provide more realistic estimates, or even a quote.

 

[bdw]

Upshot, you get what you pay for.

Yes, and I got what I wanted for $39. It works well, has done for a while now and the client is delighted.


Being elitist is fine when you can afford it.


.

 

[darren atkinson]

I kind of agree with bdw here.

A decent developer could put this together as either a custom job or taking some already existing code and modify it.

It's like with anything, you can pay a lot or get something done cheaper. A top end marketing company could charge you £10 - £15k for a website and then more often than not would outsource the work to people doing the actual job for far less than this. I've seen it loads of times.

For the development you could easily get this done on Elance for a lot less than has been quoted here by some however you have to accept that there is a greater risk of an extended development time or a product which is not as you spec'd at the end of it. That's why you have to take care in finding the right partner to work with, it's definitely not impossible though, and don't forget, there are many companies / individuals who will charge a lot upfont and still don't deliver results.

Wearing my business owner hat, if someone could do the work and get it up and working for around £700 and someone else said that there solution would be better coded and more extensively tested but it would cost £5k - £10k then it's a pretty easy choice.

If the business really took off and was generating a lot of income and the system became a vital tool then they could always get it rebuilt at a later time when the cost wouldn't be as much of a factor.

The only time I'd reconsider is if I needed to store sensitive customer data, but from what I can tell this isn't a real requirement, payment details will be streamed straight through to the payment gateways so there should be no real need to store this.

 

[cmcp]

Yes, and I got what I wanted for $39. It works well, has done for a while now and the client is delighted.


Being elitist is fine when you can afford it.

It's comparing apples and oranges, certainly not elitist.

Glad your client is happy with the quality they received

Wearing my business owner hat, if someone could do the work and get it up and working for around £700 and someone else said that there solution would be better coded and more extensively tested but it would cost £5k - £10k then it's a pretty easy choice.

Very diplomatic All things considered, I stand by my standards and estimate.

 

[darren atkinson]

It's comparing apples and oranges, certainly not elitist.

Glad your client is happy with the quality they received


Very diplomatic All things considered, I stand by my standards and estimate.

Hi,

I'm not saying your wrong and am certainly not trying to cause an arguement.

At the end of the day it comes down to what the OP wants, the functionality could be put together on a budget, or they could spend a fair amount more and perhaps get a better system.

I think both sides of the coin have been offered here and it's down to them what they want, it's their business at the end of the day.

All I was trying to get across is that if somebody is saying £10 - £20k (I appreciate you didn't go this high) for the project then it could easily scare the OP away from investigating this route further, it is do'able for far less than that and he should be aware of that.

 

[cmcp]

Of course, and you've offered good advice

I see there's a difference in the two approaches. It's easy to look at the numbers and think they're high, but £5k pretty much equates to 10 days dev time, based on a 9 hour day at £50ph.

Split that however you want; 3 days visual design, 3 days HTML CSS front end 3 days technical build... You're then pushed for time with testing, fixing, deployment.

 

[SmartBookings]

Please send your detailed spec to [email protected] we create online booking systems for many types of businesses and customisations are normally free. We have lots of demos on our website: http://www.smartbookings.co.uk

 

[cmcp]

Please send your detailed spec to [email protected] we create online booking systems for many types of businesses and customisations are normally free. We have lots of demos on our website: http://www.smartbookings.co.uk

Just a heads up, you may want to take a look at the w3c spec and get some labels on those form inputs. You may not mind you site being inaccessible, but your clients might

 

[bdw]

Split that however you want; 3 days visual design, 3 days HTML CSS front end 3 days technical build

All things considered, I stand by my standards and estimate.

Ah, if you are taking three days to visually design a booking calendar I can see where your high price would come from.

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[bdw]

I fully appreciate the developers' position here. Cheap Internet offerings have made it hard for many people in the business community, not just developers. If you are offering a service that suddenly becomes available elsewhere for a fraction of the the price you are charging you have to try to justify it somehow.

I get it every time I turn on the telly with 1&1 advertising DIY websites for pennies. That's the business we're in and I am afraid we just have to live with it.

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[stugster]

bdw, out of interest, what's the process you follow in the event the $39 piece of software becomes the hole that lets in a hacker? Obviously this is just in theory and I'm not suggesting that by paying less you're increasing the chances of that happening if you've checked the code before implementing.

 

[british steve]

Please send your detailed spec to [email protected] we create online booking systems for many types of businesses and customisations are normally free. We have lots of demos on our website: http://www.smartbookings.co.uk

Thanks, but I am not looking for a hosted system.

 

[Rudi]

Could you post your spec here then to stop the random quotes?

 

[bdw]

bdw, out of interest, what's the process you follow in the event the $39 piece of software becomes the hole that lets in a hacker?

There's not much chance of it happening but if it did I would sort it out myself and if I could not do that then I would contact the supplier for support, which they provide 12 hours a day, every weekday from 07.00 to 19.00 GMT. I have already used their support and the response time was excellent given that I only paid $39.

Actually there is no guarantee that hackers would not find their way into a custom designed script. In fact one could argue that there is more chance of that happening since commercial scripts are put to the test much more and there is a better chance that any vulnerabilities have been found, reported, and fixed.

Obviously this is just in theory and I'm not suggesting that by paying less you're increasing the chances of that happening if you've checked the code before implementing.

In the real world how many people who use sub-contracted scripts "check the code" before implementing? If I had the knowledge and training to check the code I would have written it myself.


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[stugster]

In the real world how many people who use sub-contracted scripts "check the code" before implementing? If I had the knowledge and training to check the code I would have written it myself.

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I'd expect everyone who recycles code to check it for security holes.

 

[bdw]

I'd expect everyone who recycles code to check it for security holes.

Then I think you may find that the overwhelming majority of the people in the real world who do this fail to live up to your standards and expectations, which I would contend are unfair.

But then using terms like "recycle code" is a bit unfair. It seems you are trying to belittle the sale of coding and scripting in some way. It has absolutely nothing to do with recycling and everything to do with a product, which people buy. As with all products finding the right supplier is important.

What you seem to be suggesting is that buying off the shelf tools is more risky than buying customised software. Can you offer your reasoning behind this? Is it not the case that people who sell ready made scripts are likely to be just as competent as those who sell bespoke scripts?

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[stugster]

Then I think you may find that the overwhelming majority of the people in the real world who do this fail to live up to your standards and expectations, which I would contend are unfair.

That's disappointing. As part of all our software development and consultation, we always do this to ensure the integrity and quality of the product we're selling or reselling.

But then using terms like "recycle code" is a bit unfair. It seems you are trying to belittle the sale of coding and scripting in some way. It has absolutely nothing to do with recycling and everything to do with a product, which people buy. As with all products finding the right supplier is important.

If you're not using the code independently (for example, deploying Magento as an ecommerce solution) and you're only using it to bolt the code onto something else you're developing, then I'd argue you're recycling the code. Nothing at all wrong with that.

What you seem to be suggesting is that buying off the shelf tools is more risky than buying customised software. Can you offer your reasoning behind this? Is it not the case that people who sell ready made scripts are likely to be just as competent as those who sell bespoke scripts?
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Again, if you're paying a developer to produce software, you'd usually expect some sort of security design to be implemented as standard. Whereas, if you buy it from some unknown source on the Internet, unless they've specifically told you that they've done their security audit on it, then obviously that's going to be more risky.

I'm not suggesting either is more or less secure, I'm just pointing out that when getting customised software developed, you'll usually sit down with the code and make certain it's secure. I wouldn't be able to guarantee that to the client with an off the shelf solution without going through the source code myself.

 

[bdw]

I wouldn't be able to guarantee that to the client with an off the shelf solution without going through the source code myself.

So why not just develop it yourself?

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[stugster]

So why not just develop it yourself?

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I'm not sure why you're asking that? We do.

 

[bdw]

We don't.