What chains will be gone by the end of 2012

[Steve Sellers]

Perhaps you should spend more time worrying about how to run your own business better than the competitors, instead of crossing your fingers and hoping they go bust.

Your the second person to say that, are you really ignorant as to how your competitors are performing? Does being ignorant to that fact help you? Or are you happy with your head in the sand? I like to think I'm one step ahead of the others BECAUSE I do worry about how the everyone on the High Street is performing and react accordingly.

What do you talk about when your with other people in similar businesses then - the weather :|

Then again I've just noticed your in legal services and consultancy and as such wouldn't be that interested in High Street retailers, whereas retail is my life and business and as such of great interest and speculation to me.

I'm not ignorant. I just don't spend all my time hoping my competitors go bust. I look at what they are doing WELL, and look to see how I can do it BETTER. Talking about who is going bust stinks of sitting back and doing nothing to me - not staying one step ahead.

You would be surprised how much I know about retail, I have many retail clients so I do make an effort to understand their businesses and the sector - it's all about making my service better then the competitors you see.

 

[Banned]

I'm not ignorant. I just don't spend all my time hoping my competitors go bust. I look at what they are doing WELL, and look to see how I can do it BETTER. Talking about who is going bust stinks of sitting back and doing nothing to me - not staying one step ahead.

You would be surprised how much I know about retail, I have many retail clients so I do make an effort to understand their businesses and the sector - it's all about making my service better then the competitors you see.

Fair enough. However I for one am not (isn't, is not :|) just hoping my competitors go bust, I've made the changes required by looking at, and discussing with other retailers, what is happening. Anyone that doesn't discuss and analysis their competitors is either lying or a fool. Why so called business people would vilify others for discussing this sort of topic is beyond me.

Oh, and yes I do love it when a competitor get's something badly wrong - particularly if I knew it was a mistake from the off. And I'm sure they feel same when I cock it up as well

 

[GingerBeer]

We make our own cards .......... we also sell all the gorgeous bits and pieces required in order to make your own cards too, our single biggest seller in terms of craft supplies is the card making/paper crafting supplies, we intend to get as many people making their own cards as possible!

That is great to hear

 

[Steve Sellers]

Why so called business people would vilify people this sort of topic is beyond me.

Because it is unethical to go around saying other businesses are in trouble - not least when there is no evidence to suggest that.

I only consider a business going under in terms of whether their share of the market dropped or the whole market has shrunk.

 

[Banned]

Because it is unethical to go around saying other businesses are in trouble - not least when there is no evidence to suggest that.

I only consider a business going under in terms of whether their share of the market dropped or the whole market has shrunk.

Then we will have to agree to disagree

Share prices are the last and final sign that things are going badly, if you only pay attention to them your weeks or months behind the game.

 

[papverpoppies]

I'm not ignorant. I just don't spend all my time hoping my competitors go bust. I look at what they are doing WELL, and look to see how I can do it BETTER. Talking about who is going bust stinks of sitting back and doing nothing to me - not staying one step ahead.

You would be surprised how much I know about retail, I have many retail clients so I do make an effort to understand their businesses and the sector - it's all about making my service better then the competitors you see.

I was not aware that this thread was about sitting back and praying for anyone's competitors to go bust.

I think it was started just as a 'who next' - which is a reasonable question to most people.

Did not read any death threats in amongst the questions.

What a load of tosh over a simple thread.:|

So, what she we talk about next?
Must remember not to offend any of you overly sensitive type.

Anyone got a sense of humour going spare.

Pops ~xx~

Pops ~xx~

 

[papverpoppies]

Repeat posting.

 

[papverpoppies]

I think my lavatory chain may well go this year.

Earl

Are you sure about that, or just muck spreading

Pops ~xx~

 

[Steve Sellers]

I was not aware that this thread was about sitting back and praying for anyone's competitors to go bust.

I think it was started just as a 'who next' - which is a reasonable question to most people.

Did not read any death threats in amongst the questions.

What a load of tosh over a simple thread.:|

So, what she we talk about next?
Must remember not to offend any of you overly sensitive type.

Anyone got a sense of humour going spare.

Pops ~xx~

I'm not offended. I'm chuckling that people who call themselves proper business people spend their days making jokes about who will go pop next.

Death threats, what are you talking about? Seems like you are talking tosh there.

I'm just wondering what would you do if I went on every single forum on the web and posted that you are going pop? Would it be as funny then?

 

Because it is unethical to go around saying other businesses are in trouble -

Ethics do not apply when one is talking about a subject as important as money.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16360808

Earl

 

[Banned]

I'm just wondering what would you do if I went on every single forum on the web and posted that you are going pop? Would it be as funny then?

If I was a large chain (which if you missed the title of thread are those we are discussing) I wouldn't be worried about what a bunch of SME's were discussing about me.

Actually it did happen to me just this year, rumours abound in the town that I, and others, were closing down. Didn't hurt business, in fact it may actually have helped.

No offence Steve, but you really don't understand retail. I don't understand Will writing either and as such wouldn't comment on it

 

[GingerBeer]

Was there any truth in the rumour that Playtex was going bust?

 

[papverpoppies]

Was there any truth in the rumour that Playtex was going bust?

It got deflated.

Pops ~xx~

 

[Doodle-Noodle]

Well I'm not moaning! I'm not hoping any of my competitors go bust either (although I wouldn't be shedding any tears if HobbyCraft did as they do what I do only much bigger and much better and get away with charging much more for the same products ........ grrrrrrrr!!!!)
I am grumpy though as the other half has announced he "doesn't do New Year's Eve" ...... wish he told me that 25 years ago and I wouldn't have married him
I actually think it's really interesting and actually very important that we all keep an eye on what is happening outside our own little retail worlds ...... we can learn a great deal from the successes and failures of those around us.

 

[silvermusic]

Having once had a card shop all I can add is it's a bloody labour intensive and waste high retail business. Never again, margins may be 75%+ POR but that's an irrelevance to your bottom line.

Start dealing with the big names (Carte Blache, Avanti etc) and your down to 50% - 60% POR, but you can return unsold stock for a cost of 20%. Hallmark forget it, they want to merchandise for little margin.

The winners will be firms like Paperchase who both produce and High Street retail directly. Clinton's don't have a hope in hell, hence their high prices to cover the labour costs.

Clinton's have to be one to watch in 2012.

You raise an interesting point that I was decussing with someone the other day. The businesses that will struggle are those that add little or nothing into the retail chain and are merely middlemen reselling a product from a supplier/manufacturer, it's little more than a race to the bottom on price. For those that aren't just pure middlemen, as in your example of Paperchase who are manufacturing their own product, they're going to be the one's to survive. For the rest you can only compete on price and/or service, if you don't customers will go elsewhere. Ask yourself why a customer should purchase from you and not someone else.

doodles of Tadley, made a good point about people wanting to make their own cards nowadays, how many of those places selling cards like Clintons are selling the means to do so? It's a market I don't think any of them have really touched, although I could be wrong, it's not my area of expertise. Although I do feel sorry for our smal village shop which has been flooded with home crafters wanting them to resell handmade cards, the poor owner got fed up of being asked. But they did take on couple of them on a sale or return basis.

As for some suggestions that this and the other thread are in poor taste, I dissagree. Watching what your competitors are doing wrong and why they may be failing is just as important as knowing what they're doing right. Besides which most of what's been said is public knowledge anyway. With a small business it's much easier to turn things around and change them far quicker than any of the big players, and that could make the difference between survival or failure of your business.

 

[Arhob1]

Bannatyne's health chain? Gyms etc.

Why subscribe and pay £40 pcm when you can walk around the block and save yourself that money?

 

[Steve Sellers]

No offence Steve, but you really don't understand retail. I don't understand Will writing either and as such wouldn't comment on it

I don't think there is anything I have said that show's I don't understand retail. I don't think anything substantive along the lines of suppliers, margins, mark up, vat etc was mentioned.

Perhaps if I would give a list of other will writers(I do other things btw) who I think will go pop next year will show I know about retail (which is tantamount to the posts in this thread).

It amazes me that you understand retail when you spend more time talking about who may go under than thinking about your margins in whatever retail empire you run. Don't assume that you know everything about others businesses or that somebody else doesn't have the prerequisite knowledge.

 

[Magsite]

I reckon

comet

 

[silvermusic]

Bannatyne's health chain? Gyms etc.

Why subscribe and pay £40 pcm when you can walk around the block and save yourself that money?

Beats me, I haven't been to a gym for decades. But I'm sure there's a whole bunch of reasons, trained staff, equipment, facilities, etc. not forgetting the social aspect as well, that's where their value is, or at least those paying the money percieve it to be.

 

[toastking]

Beats me, I haven't been to a gym for decades. But I'm sure there's a whole bunch of reasons, trained staff, equipment, facilities, etc. not forgetting the social aspect as well, that's where their value is, or at least those paying the money percieve it to be.

I am not a gym member myself but can really see why people are. All the above and being able to use a good load of facilities without having to shell out for the equipment is great. If you have classes, personal training sessions, swimming pools, saunas etc then it just adds to the appeal.

Yes yes you can run and all that, but its just not as good which is why gyms do well in my opinion.

It's a bit like saying 'well you can get a thrill from riding a bike down a huge hill, so why would you pay £30 to go to a theme park.'

 

[AndyBlue]

In case i'm being thick can someone point me in the direction of the post that says - I hope xyz business goes bust ? Or even mention that these are our competitors. This thread started as a debate following the announcement of a number of major chains going into administration as was merely trying to get peoples views on who might be next. What is wrong with that, anyone who knows anything about retail knows that you need footfall to be successful and nothing works better to drive footfall than a thriving high street, therefore anyone with the slightest interest in retail doesn't want anyone to go bust.
However, anyone looking for new premises (me) or has a lease/rent review coming up may take some comfort in thinking they may get a rent reduction or pay lower rent than they anticipated following the news of so many shops shutting.

 

[toastking]

In case i'm being thick can someone point me in the direction of the post that says - I hope xyz business goes bust ? Or even mention that these are our competitors. This thread started as a debate following the announcement of a number of major chains going into administration as was merely trying to get peoples views on who might be next. What is wrong with that, anyone who knows anything about retail knows that you need footfall to be successful and nothing works better to drive footfall than a thriving high street, therefore anyone with the slightest interest in retail doesn't want anyone to go bust.
However, anyone looking for new premises (me) or has a lease/rent review coming up may take some comfort in thinking they may get a rent reduction or pay lower rent than they anticipated following the news of so many shops shutting.

I cannot and nobody else could either as it doesn't exist!

It started out with speculation as to who could go under and some varyingly fanciful reasons as to why we thought they might. Nobody wants a company to go down and I do not remember anyone saying that they did, which makes it a little odd that some members have been offended.

 

[captaincloser]

Nobody wants a company to go down and I do not remember anyone saying that they did.

Can I just say TESCO's

I and many others would dance on their grave.

 

[Steve Sellers]

I am not a gym member myself but can really see why people are. All the above and being able to use a good load of facilities without having to shell out for the equipment is great. If you have classes, personal training sessions, swimming pools, saunas etc then it just adds to the appeal.

Yes yes you can run and all that, but its just not as good which is why gyms do well in my opinion.

It's a bit like saying 'well you can get a thrill from riding a bike down a huge hill, so why would you pay £30 to go to a theme park.'

Plus it is a safety issues. Bench pressing 100kg+ in your garage on your own is a bad idea. Social side is the other big element.

 

[MancunianCreative]

I'd expect the following to be in danger;

HMV - they now sell so much absolute garbage that it is hard to actually tell what they're supposed to be selling. Spreading thinly like this is the main cause for their demise I believe.

Pandora - will be a victim of it's own success. It would probably have made a solid living for it's owners being sold in other shops. Once it opens up high street and prominent high street and shopping centre stores, it then needs to be coming up with products that can maintain the company. Despite my girlfriend having a handful of pretty full bracelets, I believe it is a fad, it is a fashionable brand currently but I do not see how the rest of the products they have in store will be able to earn their share once the public decides it no longer likes it.

Weatherspoons - This is my wildcard. Too big to go, possibly, but potentially because the amount of property they manage and the rising rents/prices and lowering pub trade. I believe they could struggle.

Amazon - been mentioned. I don't think they will collapse, but I expect them to clean house to have a more efficient way of operating.

Travel agents - If I worked in one, I'd be very afraid. There's no way at all that these aren't going bust this year.

Probably be a few more. I need to have a think.

 

Can I just say TESCO's

I and many others would dance on their grave.

Have to agree that the larger conglomerates are destroying both the health and the wealth of the country.

Earl

 

[Barnie]

a point i made and others also made was about own brand stores/direct sales and the middle man or middle person to be PC and large supermarkets

cutting out the middle man seems great on first impressions, however anybody trying to get into business it makes it near impossible. try getting an account with apple or Panasonic for example, its silly money. cards are another for a small independent card shop they would have to start production runs of huge numbers to make any money.

manufacturing is another business thats so hard to get into, take the simplest of products years ago you just knock out several hundred sell them locally, now you need to be doing thousands an hour, the tooling and setup required to compete is eye watering.

Britain as a low margin high cost society is going to make recovery very difficult

 

[internetspaceships]

Hi Barnie

Getting accounts with the big boys isn't actually that tough. The hard part is selling enough of their gear to get to the "price breaks" that start to make it really profitable.

Most people give up way before this point.

 

[silvermusic]

a point i made and others also made was about own brand stores/direct sales and the middle man or middle person to be PC and large supermarkets

cutting out the middle man seems great on first impressions, however anybody trying to get into business it makes it near impossible. try getting an account with apple or Panasonic for example, its silly money. cards are another for a small independent card shop they would have to start production runs of huge numbers to make any money.

manufacturing is another business thats so hard to get into, take the simplest of products years ago you just knock out several hundred sell them locally, now you need to be doing thousands an hour, the tooling and setup required to compete is eye watering.

Britain as a low margin high cost society is going to make recovery very difficult

Getting accounts with big names isn't that hard if you know what you're doing and the right people, I still have direct accounts with several well known big brand names, Sony being one of them. However, as internetspaceships rightly points out, trading to a level to get the right prices is an entirely different matter.

I think you're missing the manufacturing thing a little though, it's about adding value, not having everything made under your own label, there's no point in trying to re-invent the wheel. Greeting cards is a good example although by no means the only product that can be made yourself, you have to think a bit outside the box and look for gaps in ranges of products that aren't catered for very well.

 

[Banned]

I don't think there is anything I have said that show's I don't understand retail. I don't think anything substantive along the lines of suppliers, margins, mark up, vat etc was mentioned.

Perhaps if I would give a list of other will writers(I do other things btw) who I think will go pop next year will show I know about retail (which is tantamount to the posts in this thread).

It amazes me that you understand retail when you spend more time talking about who may go under than thinking about your margins in whatever retail empire you run. Don't assume that you know everything about others businesses or that somebody else doesn't have the prerequisite knowledge.

That's my point, all the things you have mentioned there are just the mechanics of retail, you've missed the heart and soul of retailing. It's something you either have and understand or don't. That's all I'm saying and it's not a criticism in the same way I wouldn't be offended if you realised I have no interest in employment law whereas you do. And worrying about my margins is probably the least time comusing of all the things I do as a retailer.

And again, if you don't talk to others about your business and industry you are either a liar or a fool.

Now instead of criticising retailers for discussing their business interests why not add something of value or relevance

Oh, I have no empire just one shop now and one other non-related business. But thanks for the compliment.

 

[Banned]

And worrying about my margins is probably the least time comusing of all the things I do as a retailer.

Comusing - it's a new verb that describes consuming and musing as one combined act rather than two individual processes :redface:

 

[Steve Sellers]

you've missed the heart and soul of retailing. It's something you either have and understand or don't.

You mean making a profit? If you say it is anything else you are either a liar or a fool.

I think I did add something to the thread, pointing out to defamatory nature of some of the comments. Instead you have gone of on tangent accusing me of knowing nothing of retail when you know nothing of my business interests.

I suspect you don't even grasp the fact the running a business is about making profit - retail or non retail. Good luck stopping yourself going pop this year..............fingers crossed Tescos go bust first though eh!?!?!

 

[Banned]

You mean making a profit? If you say it is anything else you are either a liar or a fool.

As I said and you have proven, you don't understand retail. Yes it's a business and about making a profit, but I could be in 101 other businesses if it was just about profit (business two is just about profit as I have no real passion for it, so I fully understand your point of view). I choose retail as I understand and love it. Retailing isn't just about finding a product, deciding your margin and opening the doors. You can't number crunch to make a shop a success.

I wish I could explain what it is that attracts certain people to retail and what and where the passion comes from, but I can't, perhaps someone else here can

Oh, and I still make mistakes, one being opening today and having seen only 10 customers! Don't know what I was thinking, even Tesco are closed.

 

[Steve Sellers]

I wish I could explain what it is that attracts certain people to retail and what and where the passion comes from, but I can't, perhaps someone else here can

Now I do understand that. You have come to the false conclusion that I know nothing of retail. Retail is definitely a "love people" kind of business. And again I still don't see any specific post I have made that shows a lack of understanding for retail. Passion is good but the bottom line is ALWAYS profit - if not then you may as well be an employee or set up a charity.

Which leads me on I have had clients who love running their retail business and are riddled with debt and I have one particular client who hates retail, hates the customers, and turns a fantastic profit. It horses for courses.

Equally I choose law because I love it - actually no I choose law because I was attracted by £'s but I fell in love with it. I'll just finish by saying that I don;t see why I should be barred from commenting on a retails thread because I don't run a shop etc. It would be foolish to think you know everything about retail and cant learn more, just as it would be foolish of me to think I know everything about law. You never stop learning - the day you do is the day you go under IMHO.

 

[Banned]

OK Steve, what I mean is you don't "get" the passion of retail which is why you don't seem to understand that we are not gloating or wishing any business to go under. We are discussing the businesses because of the passion we have for retailing. It's probably of much more interest to retailers how our competitors are performing than it is for solicitors to be interested in the same way about their competitors.

Well, I know what I mean

 

[deniser]

I wish I could explain what it is that attracts certain people to retail and what and where the passion comes from, but I can't, perhaps someone else here can

For me it's the deal making element to it ie. searching to the ends of the earth for that product that I can sell (or getting it manufactured if I can't find it) and then negotiating the price I buy it at and then convincing a consumer to buy it at considerably more than I paid for it. I like the buying and the selling equally.

I have a passion for it and can't see myself doing anything else. I did the same with property before buying and selling for myself and other people. I just like bargain hunting, negotiating and selling!

 

[mhall]

I wish I could explain it. Retail has given me more pain than a little. We have opened shops, closed shops, had to let shops go bust. Worked for years for nothing in the hope of making enough to pay the bills only to be shafted again. Dealt with people that I would rather spit in their eye than talk to them, and yet I can't get away from it.
It has given me amazing highs and I have met some great friends. We learn every day and get better every day but I can think of no other business where I would have had to work for so many years to get to the point where we are now. One thing is for sure in my little mind - if you get into Retail solely to make money you won't last the course. I can only liken it to the licensed trade - you never switch off and the rewards are there - but bloody well hidden.

 

[internetspaceships]

Incidentally can anyone name an instance of a single shop with no outside interests (such as online sales and resellers) making someone rich enough to be noted?

I really think that the key to success as a small independent retailer is to be working in more than one sphere at a time.

 

[papverpoppies]

think it'll be lucky to get past mid-year.

I am sorry, and may this never come to be.

Good Luck.

Poppy ~xx~

 

[Steve Sellers]

Incidentally can anyone name an instance of a single shop with no outside interests (such as online sales and resellers) making someone rich enough to be noted?

It's not about getting rich, apparently it's all about passion and loving retail....

Maybe it does make me a fool and not understand retail, but why would anyone run a business without chasing the dream of getting rich? I'm sure the shareholders of the more successful retail businesses share my view i.e. shareholders in Tesco.