People are still denying a problem are they?

internetspaceships · Jan 15, 2013

So, we've had case after case like this. And the liberal left are still saying this isn't racially motivated?

Isn't it about time people took their heads of the the sand and acknowledged this for what it is - racist behaviour.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/grooming-sex-abuse-nine-men-trial-112228176.html#JoMxCcp

Until we acknowledge the problem we'll never deal with it.

kulture · Jan 15, 2013

Is it racially motivated or culturally motivated?

Podge · Jan 15, 2013

I wouldn't say it was racially motivated, I don't think it would make any difference to the perpetrators what the race of the girls were provided they were vulnerable.

internetspaceships · Jan 15, 2013

Podge said:
I wouldn't say it was racially motivated, I don't think it would make any difference to the perpetrators what the race of the girls were provided they were vulnerable.

Gah that's twaddle Podge. The very fact that the race of the victims was mentioned in the report means that even the media is getting less twitchy over the reporting.

Podge · Jan 15, 2013

If you look at the figures here http://www.adoptionuk.org/information/103152/e_factsandfigs/

It's not difficult to see how the girls that are targeted are predominantly white.

Now if 90% of the vulnerable girls were of Asian origin and it was still white girls being targeted I might agree with you.

internetspaceships · Jan 15, 2013

So how many of these gangs have we seen being prosecuted in the last two years and what was the difference between ethnic mix of the gangs and the victims?

As Kulture mentioned it's possibly culturally motivated but the maths still stays the same even if we take ethnicity out of the picture.

kulture · Jan 15, 2013

It seems to me that there are two aspects that need to be addressed.

Firstly how/why did these men get together to do this. Its not something that people discuss down the pub.

Secondly what criteria did they use to select their victims. Is it just because the victims were vulnerable and just happened to be white; did they specifically target whites, and if so was that racially motivated and not because of some other reason e.g an asian girl might have an extended family that might cause them problems?

On the second point, will labelling the attacks as racist help or hinder future investigations and finding further offenders?

internetspaceships · Jan 15, 2013

All good points Kulture.

No they wouldn't have met down the pub, that's one thing we can absolutely guarantee.

Secondly, and this is close to the knuckle but very true. Muslim women are not targetted because they are theoretically put on a pedestal, and could never be treated this way. Non muslim women are fair game and even considered to be trash/whores to certain segments of the faith.

Before you think of deleting that comment, it's not fiction, and please do your homework. It might not be PC, but then again the truth rarely is. Also on top of this, let's face it these gangs are quite apparently peadophiles. The previous reasoning determines who they see as valid targets for their lusts.

Show me a young, underage asian muslim girl who has been a victim of these gangs.

Whether it be racially or culturally motivated I firmly believe that labelling for what it really is would help not hinder because it would bring this pout into the open instead of being something that people just dont talk about.

People used to "just not talk about" family abuse- remember those days? It was only when people felt they could talk freely about it, that things started to change.

We'll not get a good debate on here about this because most of the population are too scared to even voice a view that might not be PC. That in itself is a sad, sorry state of affairs because it means that this carries on for longer.

That's the travesty of all this.

Podge · Jan 15, 2013

"A jury has been told the girls were deliberately targeted because they were either out of control or in care homes."

An extract from the article Jon linked to.

On the point about how they get together, my perception is that the Pakistani communities are close knit ones, with extended families in cities with large Pakistani communities. From evidence pedophiles somehow gravitate towards others with similar predilections. Given these two facts (and I use the term loosely) it is easy to see how you are more likely to get a larger group of Pakistani abusers than white men.

On the point of white girls being regarded as trash/whore by some of the younger Asians I agree but as regards Muslim women put on pedestals I'm not too sure. Women are treated abominably in some Asian countries.

Podge · Jan 15, 2013

This article indicates that Pakistan has it's own problems with pedophilia.

http://theopinionator.typepad.com/m...aedophilia-epidemic-in-punjaband-britain.html

Root 66 Woodshop · Jan 16, 2013

I'm going to say exactly what people are thinking about this whole situation and whether people like it or not... it's a fact.

"young" Asian men are coming into the country with just two things on their mind...

1. Money - Our Government are giving it out left right and centre, they say that they're pulling it back... how exactly? - They're taking £4000 a year off Policemen! - They're pulling money out of Education and Schooling budgets - They're selling up retirement homes?! But we're still seeing immigrants coming into the country and receiving payouts! - Yet my Mam who has lived in the UK for 74 years can't get a sodding decent pay out on her pension, every penny my Dad put into the pension scheme... Gone! - Sod all there so my Mam has to "cope with what she gets"...

I'm far from racist, I never have been and never will be... but for this to happen it's a bloody joke, this country has been for a long time... sorry to say.

2. Sex, drink and drugs. It's quite simple. Their culture and laws forbid it all, yet here we have a country rife with it, an awful lot of it within the Asian community? wonder why?... let's pop on over and have what we want... doesn't matter about age, because it's drilled into their heads that it's fine to bed young girls... it's not illegal! It's the girls fault for being a whore, a slut... Let's not consider the simple fact that these kids have already been abused, their in the system because of that... so let's abuse them some more?! And worst of all... Most cases were already aware of it bloody happening!! So they ignored it! - They've brought it on themselves... what a load of F****** crap!

Kids are Kids! - Social Services failed at their job, they've failed the Government therefore We're systematically failing our kids.

Things need to change, and they need to change fast.

Root 66 Woodshop · Jan 16, 2013

Before anyone thinks about hitting the report button about my previous post please consider this.

Have you been in the system? Have you been abused as a child? Can you really understand the concept of time when being raped by someone you're meant to trust?

trebor8 · Jan 16, 2013

AuthorizedAccess said:
Before anyone thinks about hitting the report button about my previous post please consider this.

Have you been in the system? Have you been abused as a child? Can you really understand the concept of time when being raped by someone you're meant to trust?

Have you asked yourself those 3 questions?

internetspaceships · Jan 16, 2013

Podge said:
This article indicates that Pakistan has it's own problems with pedophilia.

http://theopinionator.typepad.com/m...aedophilia-epidemic-in-punjaband-britain.html

It does, but we're not in pakistan, and I'm actually not talking about pakistanis.

Root 66 Woodshop · Jan 16, 2013

trebor8 said:
Have you asked yourself those 3 questions?

I've already been there, done that and got the T-shirt on all three accounts.

internetspaceships · Jan 16, 2013

Unneccesary post. Deleted by me.

Root 66 Woodshop · Jan 16, 2013

It's OK Jon, it was a very fair question... Whether Trebor accepts it or not.

Doesn't bother me.

For years my life has been a complete open book to anyone, when I give my opinion on specific matters and having said opinions based upon reality and what has happened to me in the past people automatically think that I'm talking bllx, it's not actually until they realise that I can not lie, I have no reason to lie and I simply do not lie that they start to think hang on...

There are things about me that could/have brought grown men to tears... specific things in the news for instance are brought up by people in the shop when they walk in have a bit of a gossip, I automatically think back on my past and give an opinion on knowing rather than someone thinking... Hope you know what I mean there?

With my depression for instance, I have never been able to take specific medication due to my health which was brought on by myself... after three attempts at suicide, Doctor's kind of re-think about what to give you, then theres the allergies that I have with other medications that make me physically sick and could potentially kill me... therefore I find humour to be the best source of medicine... obviously it doesn't alleviate the back pain I've suffered for 20+ years but hey no pain no gain... right?

some people don't get my sense of humour, whenever I offend someone I'm always quick to apologise and explain a bit more clearer that way they can hopefully see the funny side... if they don't... tough... not my problem really, I've got enough of my own.

Podge · Jan 16, 2013

internetspaceships said:
It does, but we're not in pakistan, and I'm actually not talking about pakistanis.

We are talking about abuse by ethnic gangs, I was merely pointing out that Pakistani males feature heavily in these gangs. The link was to point out that there is a culture of pedophilia in Pakistan.

internetspaceships · Jan 16, 2013

Podge said:
We are talking about abuse by ethnic gangs, I was merely pointing out that Pakistani males feature heavily in these gangs.

No you weren't, you were pointing out that there were peadophiles in Pakistan.

Podge · Jan 16, 2013

internetspaceships said:
No you weren't, you were pointing out that there were peadophiles in Pakistan.

Reread my posts and stop being silly.

Steve Sellers · Jan 16, 2013

Can we stop using the word Asian please.

These are paedophiles, who happen to be Asian and happen to be "muslim". You don't hear of sikhs, chinese, turks, russians, etc etc doing this. Of course they are not real muslims, because real muslims would never do such a heinous act.

Do these particular 'people' target young white girls? Of course they do. Not because of their skin colour but because they are often on the periphery of our "white" society. Our middle class, white run government, council, police etc etc simply don't care about them.

When girls in Chelsea and the like start getting targtted by these gangs it will be another matter.

The problem is two fold - racial and class.

Jon, I dont accept that these people put their women on a pedastal and thats why they dont do it. These Asian women simply never report it, and are never uncovered because they are hidden away. If they do report it, they are outcast from their families because they see it as shameful that they have been subjected to abuse, or worse have acid chucked in their faces.....

How many young asian girls have their genitals mutilated? What about them poor girls?

Podge · Jan 16, 2013

Steve Sellers said:
Can we stop using the word Asian please.

How many young asian girls have their genitals mutilated? What about them poor girls?

Pot Kettle.

Sometimes it's the appropriate word to use.

Steve Sellers · Jan 16, 2013

Podge said:
Pot Kettle.

Sometimes it's the appropriate word to use.

No it isn't though is it. We all know the nationalities of these peoples forefathers.

The problem is when you use words like that, it gives the pc brigade the chance to jump on it. If you think it isn't racist it is. You are tarring a whole continent of people with the same very dirty brush.

At the minute I am hearing a lot about a famous Yorkshireman who was a pedo. Do you refer to "these Yorkshire pedos". No, lets be specific. All generalisations serve to do is polarise the debate and turn it into a racial issue, when it simply isnt a racial issue.

Its an issue with scumbags doing scummy things. In this case there seems to be a problem with a particular community, but dragging hundreds of other nationalities and cultures into it isn't fair.

Ah I see what you mean! Yes I have done the same thing....see how easy it is!

I should say "from fundemental/extreme islamic backgrounds".

I accept my mistake.

Root 66 Woodshop · Jan 16, 2013

The top and bottom line is quite simple.

It doesn't matter who the sicko is or whether he's English or Asian - They're either getting away with it by the fact that people are ignoring it or they're getting away with it because the kids are scared to death of what might happen.

It's down to the responsible adult to take note and see what is going on around them, just because the kid is causing trouble or acting suspiciously, it doesn't mean that they're the culprit... majority of times they're actually the victim.

Podge · Jan 16, 2013

I don't tar everybody with the same brush, which is why I singled out a particular community, and in doing this I'm not saying that all Pakistanis are pedophiles.

We know young vulnerable girls are easy targets for the people who prey on them and I think it only right that the most predatory should be brought to peoples attentions, whether it be pc or not.

Davek0974 · Jan 17, 2013

Podge said:
I wouldn't say it was racially motivated, I don't think it would make any difference to the perpetrators what the race of the girls were provided they were vulnerable.

100% garbage. There is a clear pattern building rapidly in cases like this whereby ALL the girls are white, not afro-carribean, chinese, turkish etc just white. White girls are viewed as meat by these scumbags not human beings.

kulture · Jan 17, 2013

Davek0974 said:
100% garbage. There is a clear pattern building rapidly in cases like this whereby ALL the girls are white, not afro-carribean, chinese, turkish etc just white. White girls are viewed as meat by these scumbags not human beings.

I think that this is a very dangerous generalisation. Whilst I am sure that there are some scum who only target white girls, I suspect that most of these scum will target any girl given the opportunity. It is more likely that the non white girls, for cultural reasons, are not coming forward, or are having their identities more completely hidden.

Further, since the identities of children are never released, how can you make this assertion anyway.

internetspaceships · Jan 17, 2013

kulture said:
I think that this is a very dangerous generalisation. Whilst I am sure that there are some scum who only target white girls, I suspect that most of these scum will target any girl given the opportunity. It is more likely that the non white girls, for cultural reasons, are not coming forward, or are having their identities more completely hidden.

Further, since the identities of children are never released, how can you make this assertion anyway.

Actually your post is also a generalisation too, and based on assumption. It has been reported quite clearly that the target group is white non muslim girls.

Hence the comment about others not coming forwards is, at best, hopeful. Again the assertion can be made because the reporting clearly states white girls.

Obviously this could all change if something new comes to the fore, but based upon the reported case so far I have to (sadly) agree that the targetted group is white, non muslim girls.

Steve Sellers · Jan 17, 2013

internetspaceships said:
Actually your post is also a generalisation too, and based on assumption. It has been reported quite clearly that the target group is white non muslim girls.

Hence the comment about others not coming forwards is, at best, hopeful. Again the assertion can be made because the reporting clearly states white girls.

Obviously this could all change if something new comes to the fore, but based upon the reported case so far I have to (sadly) agree that the targetted group is white, non muslim girls.

Thats if we believe the media. The same media who protected old Jim and now are hanging him out to dry without trial...sorry without a proper trial.

These people no doubt are predominantly targetting white girls. The thing is thousands of children go missing every year. Where is the uproar about that? Some may say it is just a mere conspiracy theory but there are definitely high level paedophile gangs operating in the highest parts of society - not just on the street of Rochdale and Oldham etc.

Where is the uproar about that? Why haven't the politicians sorted out the Catholic Church and it's blatant policy of protecting paedophiles - ergo encouraging it. This is all daily mail sensationalism. In the grand scheme of it these girls represent a minority of victims, who will give a voice to all the children who are getting taken each year to all paedophile gangs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo

Root 66 Woodshop · Jan 17, 2013

Up to now, people are giving their opinions on the matter, which is all good... however it is a sad fact that the Government, the media and as mentioned earlier by Steve "the Church" are extremely good at covering things up and are prepared to do absolutely nothing about these cases.

Neither the Media, The Church nor the Government are prepared to do anything about it simply because it would mean that they would "legally" be liable for protecting the sicko's out there... The Media are hanging out Star's to dry because they're most probably bricking it, the Government don't even recognise these issues as being serious and the Church well... what can anyone really say about that eh?

All three of the above plus other religious groups involved (that we're not really allowed to discuss) need to back off and allow justice to be served.

I'd also like to mention, it really doesn't matter what creed, colour or religious groups are involved in these cases - what matters is justice for all those affected by the sick, twisted and vile animals out there.

Steve Sellers · Jan 17, 2013

AuthorizedAccess said:
I'd also like to mention, it really doesn't matter what creed, colour or religious groups are involved in these cases - what matters is justice for all those affected by the sick, twisted and vile animals out there.

hear hear!

Amazin · Jan 23, 2013

AuthorizedAccess said:
I'm going to say exactly what people are thinking about this whole situation and whether people like it or not... it's a fact.

"young" Asian men are coming into the country with just two things on their mind...

1. Money - Our Government are giving it out left right and centre, they say that they're pulling it back... how exactly? - They're taking £4000 a year off Policemen! - They're pulling money out of Education and Schooling budgets - They're selling up retirement homes?! But we're still seeing immigrants coming into the country and receiving payouts! - Yet my Mam who has lived in the UK for 74 years can't get a sodding decent pay out on her pension, every penny my Dad put into the pension scheme... Gone! - Sod all there so my Mam has to "cope with what she gets"...

I'm far from racist, I never have been and never will be... but for this to happen it's a bloody joke, this country has been for a long time... sorry to say.

2. Sex, drink and drugs. It's quite simple. Their culture and laws forbid it all, yet here we have a country rife with it, an awful lot of it within the Asian community? wonder why?... let's pop on over and have what we want... doesn't matter about age, because it's drilled into their heads that it's fine to bed young girls... it's not illegal! It's the girls fault for being a whore, a slut... Let's not consider the simple fact that these kids have already been abused, their in the system because of that... so let's abuse them some more?! And worst of all... Most cases were already aware of it bloody happening!! So they ignored it! - They've brought it on themselves... what a load of F****** crap!

Kids are Kids! - Social Services failed at their job, they've failed the Government therefore We're systematically failing our kids.

Things need to change, and they need to change fast.

are you serious? if thats not racist then I don't know what racist is. What do you mean by young Asian men? Can you even spot the difference?

Root 66 Woodshop · Jan 23, 2013

Seriously, try READING what I've said!

I'm going to say exactly what people are thinking about this whole situation and whether people like it or not... it's a fact

I never once stated that it was MY thoughts! Good grief read ffs.

I've mentioned a few times on these forums that I am far from being Racist... My brother is Blacker than the ace of spades, he's probably darker than your good self... How can a WHITE man be racist when his very own brother is BLACK??

Fact is Fact whether you like it or not.

Root 66 Woodshop · Jan 23, 2013

What do you mean by young Asian men? Can you even spot the difference?

With regards to this part, I've said on many occasions I don't care what colour or creed people are, we all bleed the same coloured stuff... You've even pulled me before on saying that!

Can I spot the difference? Now that's a racial slur if I've ever heard one! LOL! -Talk about being PC!

With regards to "spotting the difference" Sorry but no, but then again I have common sense to ask and divulge in people's heritage during conversation.

For instance I know that Mulsim's are taught about Jinn and that it is also taught in the Qur'an - how many non-muslim men do you know who know what Jinn even is?! (and not the drink!

)

I'm educated enough to ask questions, not to be rude or intruding but to better myself and be able to discuss specific matters that come to hand.

Root 66 Woodshop · Jan 23, 2013

With regards to work, we have many Asians contacting us asking for quotes. when asked for their name and address so we can attend their home or business it has become a custom for them to give us a Westernised name! It is quite weird having those calls, my reply is always can I take your real name please?

I honestly do not give a toss about race, in my business I need to know exactly whom I am dealing with. They haven't changed their name by deedpoll, no they're worried that someone won't deal with them because they have a bad rep as a customer because they're Asian.

Even when call centres call you and they say "Hello my name is Simon" - Sorry but you're not actually called Simon, if you can't give me your real name then don't chase me for money. Some call centres even have a standardised email address set up with [email protected] it goes to a generic email so that Imran can answer me? Hiding behind masks is not something that I am interested in one bit.

When I was at school majority of my friends were Asian, they use to come to my home and watch Only Fools & Horses (mainly because their parents wouldn't allow them to watch it, because "some" episodes were border line racism" - Didn't bother me and my friends though, this is how I got the nick name DAVE. Everyone was called Dave, even Assad my Closest friend. Unfortunately Assad died at the age of 9. His Mam n Dad brought us all oranges and apples, I got two of each because I was the one that looked out for him when all the other kids bullied him because he couldn't eat like us "normal" kids, he was fed through a tube through his stomach.

So seriously, think before you even contemplate on who you are calling Racist.

Amazin · Jan 23, 2013

AuthorizedAccess said:
Seriously, try READING what I've said!

I never once stated that it was MY thoughts! Good grief read ffs.

I've mentioned a few times on these forums that I am far from being Racist... My brother is Blacker than the ace of spades, he's probably darker than your good self... How can a WHITE man be racist when his very own brother is BLACK??

Fact is Fact whether you like it or not.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. I was quite shocked when I first saw it. How can they allow that on here? Not sure why your brother is black but Im assuming he was adopted.

With regards to this part, I've said on many occasions I don't care what colour or creed people are, we all bleed the same coloured stuff... You've even pulled me before on saying that!

Only if everyone can think like that but deep down I know thats not the case.

I honestly do not give a toss about race, in my business I need to know exactly whom I am dealing with. They haven't changed their name by deedpoll, no they're worried that someone won't deal with them because they have a bad rep as a customer because they're Asian.

anyone who discriminate in business is an idiot. They will be missing out on so much money. Good customers/clients could be anyone.

Root 66 Woodshop · Jan 24, 2013

Amazin,

My Mam & Dad adopted three of us had three of her own and fostered over 500 kids in 40 years - We had Pakistani, Iranian, Iraqi, Afro-caribean (as my brother use to call himself

) Chinese, Japanese, Indian... even a french kid once!

- physically disabled, mentally disabled, able bodied come through our home - not once was anyone treated any differently because of their race or disability... that is how I have lived my whole life and I appreciate your apology.

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