Any loopholes for Music Performing Rights ?
- Thread starter zagsuk
- Start date
B
Beachcomber
Only if you are transmitting them via a radio transmitter.
You could also stick a rack of your CD's on the counter and make a few extra £.
(Pan pipes and poncho optional)
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Pay music artists for their talent, or don't use their services (i.e. don't play music). Do you charge for the services or products from your shop or do you give them for free? If you charge, so should musicians - it's their livelihood.
Trying to find 'loopholes' is no different from conservative politicians or multi-millionaire businessmen taking non-residency status to avoid paying the taxes they should.
Trying to find 'loopholes' is no different from conservative politicians or multi-millionaire businessmen taking non-residency status to avoid paying the taxes they should.
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- Original Poster
- #10
Perhaps the term "loophole" shouldnt have been used.
It's just background music to give the place a bit of atmosphere, no one is being charged for such a service.
I just know other shop keepers who dont agree with paying such things.
PRS told me you need a license for any radio, talking radio or music etc etc...
It's just background music to give the place a bit of atmosphere, no one is being charged for such a service.
I just know other shop keepers who dont agree with paying such things.
PRS told me you need a license for any radio, talking radio or music etc etc...
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do provide us with the address of your shop - we can all come around and help ourselves to your products for free and all will be fine as long as we know a few others who think we don't have to pay you - is that what you mean ?
Is that really what you think? Would you fail to pay car insurance or road tax if you and a few mates don't agree with paying such things? Do you ask your local landlord to give you free beer because you don't agree with paying him? Maybe I'll try that one with the tax man "I don't agree with paying you, so I won't".
Pay the musicians what they are due or don't use their services for the benefit of your business (creating atmosphere is a benefit, otherwise why would you do it?).
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one thing comes to mind - the musicians get paid to make the music, they get paid a slice of CD sales etc, they get paid when the music is used for films, adverts etc, they presumably get paid by the radio station when the music is played not once I'm guessing but every time the track is played, they then get yet another payment when the end user listens to the radio - they've been paid twice for the same thing there, don't want much do they
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D
debola
My partner is a member of PRS ... the situation is quite simple, if you broadcast music, you must pay the licence holder and/or owner. Re - Matt1959 01 Nov 21:34, the end listener doesn't get charged for listening to the radio, the broadcaster gets charged. I remember years ago whilst working for in a bank, the branch got 'done' for playing xmas carols in the public area. Back office listening is fine but 'creating an atmosphere' for trade's benefit, emm No.
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G
Gord
Whilst I agree with your 'it's their livelihood' sentiment Stephen, no money from the PRS license actually goes to the artist.( a % will go to the songwriter ).
It's more of a music mafia extortion process rather than any economically beneficial reward scheme IMHO.
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G
Gord
Back office listening WAS fine, but not any more.
The PRS have re-defined the meaning of 'public-broadcast'.
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D
debola
I concur. Partner says "Absolutely no public broadcast of commercial music without a licence" :redface: Employees can't even listen to radio in a tiny back room because music has been proven to improve performance in the workplace; so why should the company reap the benefits whilst the songwriter starves?
Not sure whose side to take now.
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Hey,
I think you should find a young up and coming band who would like to make a few quid and get some exposure. Pay them for their CD and ask them to let you play it in your shop. Put it on display and if any customer asks what the music is - sell them a copy of the CD and give all proceeds to the band. I know there's a lot of bands out there that would love to have their music played in public and can't find an outlet.
Or...depending on the size of the shop and the space available, grab some highly talented kid busking on the street and give him or her a regular gig, entertaining your customers. Give him some cash and hey presto, you've created some nice atmosphere in your business and helped a young artist to get paid for doing what they love.
I know music has to be paid for but music producers and CD distributors have been overcharging for music for years. Better to give your money to someone who still creates music for the love of the job rather than the big pay packet.
I think you should find a young up and coming band who would like to make a few quid and get some exposure. Pay them for their CD and ask them to let you play it in your shop. Put it on display and if any customer asks what the music is - sell them a copy of the CD and give all proceeds to the band. I know there's a lot of bands out there that would love to have their music played in public and can't find an outlet.
Or...depending on the size of the shop and the space available, grab some highly talented kid busking on the street and give him or her a regular gig, entertaining your customers. Give him some cash and hey presto, you've created some nice atmosphere in your business and helped a young artist to get paid for doing what they love.
I know music has to be paid for but music producers and CD distributors have been overcharging for music for years. Better to give your money to someone who still creates music for the love of the job rather than the big pay packet.
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we got caught out with this earlier on in the year - we have a radio playing in the shop all day and if I'm totally honest I did know we probably needed a licence of some description but hadn't done anything about it.
We had a phone call from the PRS call centre and made a half hearted attempt at expressing suprise etc before agreeing to pay up.
What was quite funny was that whilst our details were being processed, I could overhear various conversations in the background between other PRS call centre staff and disgruntled businesses who had also been caught out. One guy was obviously claiming that he only played religious music to try and avoid paying the fee .... sadly for him PRS knew that he had been playing Alexandra Burke on a particular day as they'd had an inspector of some sort on the premises, I overheard the PRS operator say "one Hallelujah does not put Alexandra Burke in the religious music category" which made me laugh.
Although not enough to make me wince at forking out the fee. Still, I like music in my shop, it does make the atmosphere nicer and friendlier which is important.
We had a phone call from the PRS call centre and made a half hearted attempt at expressing suprise etc before agreeing to pay up.
What was quite funny was that whilst our details were being processed, I could overhear various conversations in the background between other PRS call centre staff and disgruntled businesses who had also been caught out. One guy was obviously claiming that he only played religious music to try and avoid paying the fee .... sadly for him PRS knew that he had been playing Alexandra Burke on a particular day as they'd had an inspector of some sort on the premises, I overheard the PRS operator say "one Hallelujah does not put Alexandra Burke in the religious music category" which made me laugh.
Although not enough to make me wince at forking out the fee. Still, I like music in my shop, it does make the atmosphere nicer and friendlier which is important.
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G
Gord
I'm not sure that religious music has any special dispensation either.
Presumably, this is why I rarely hear kids carol singing at the door these days.
http://torrentfreak.com/charity-forced-to-pay-copyright-police-so-kids-can-sing-071209/
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Arguing with the rights and wrongs of PRS is just plain silly, its a very established form of payment for musicians, if you own a shop and play royalty based music then you should expect to pay, no different from a cinema playing a film of a pub playing music. You can aruge that you have already paid for the CD, but PRS has been around such a long time that the pricing of CDs and radio broadcasts is in part down to the understanding that musicians will make money from their product through other avenues such as PRS.
HOWEVER, as others have stated, if you're not bothered about having the radio on or the latest bands plaing over the speakers then invest in some royalty free music, there is tons to choose from and you could very easily taylor the mood of your shop to suit.
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G
Gord
As I said earlier, NO money collected by the PRS goes to musicians
A small % eventually gets to the writer.
A/ No money goes to musicians.
B/ The suggestion that the price of CD's have been/are reduced because of royalty payments is funny.
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You're being pedantic. Most writers of music are musicians, and this is what i meant.
And the cost of CDs is directly or indirectly affected by royalty payments, whether you agree with it or not. It's simple economics, when musicians recieve no PRS contributions, then the cost of CDs are on the whole more expensive, as this is their only form of revenue other than live performance. And if you dont beleive this to be true, then please explain why then is royalty free music CD so much more expensive to buy? I know first hand when I am writing music for a publisher, if there is to be no royalty payments I ask a lot more for the work.
I'd be interested to know what experience you have to talk about this with any kind of credibilty. I write music for a living, both royalty free and royalty based.
And the cost of CDs is directly or indirectly affected by royalty payments, whether you agree with it or not. It's simple economics, when musicians recieve no PRS contributions, then the cost of CDs are on the whole more expensive, as this is their only form of revenue other than live performance. And if you dont beleive this to be true, then please explain why then is royalty free music CD so much more expensive to buy? I know first hand when I am writing music for a publisher, if there is to be no royalty payments I ask a lot more for the work.
I'd be interested to know what experience you have to talk about this with any kind of credibilty. I write music for a living, both royalty free and royalty based.
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Hold on, you're not quite making a fair comparison here.
The station broadcasting the music has paid for the right to do so.
So, to make a fair comparison, it would be more like you buying an item, paying the shop for the item, but also having to pay the manufacturer again for the item.
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The radio aspect is rather funny
PRS make you pay a fee to listen to a radio station in your shop, the radio station has also paid a (very high!) fee to PRS to broadcast the music. Then you have to listen to radio adverts....
As with most middlemen, PRS/agencies/labels are the one making the money, not the artist at the end of the chain.
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You will need a license to play radio of any kind in yur premises I believe! But there are companies that supply royalty free music to small and large business for pennies! I can't remember the exact name of the compnay but we bought a pck of royalty free CD's from a company for our waiting room about 3 years ago and it cost us about £30!
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You are so way off. PRS is non profit. It is a society specifically set up with the intention of tracking down money for music to pay to artists and record labels. It is one of the most valuable resources for composers and musicians who write music.
Adverts exist on the radio to partly fund the cost of the PRS so that they can broadcast royalty based music. PRS dont make us pay to listen to the music, when does that ever happen? But they do charge you to broadcast music on your premises whatever it is.
Do people on this board just chime in with absolutely no actual knowledge of facts? It seems some people are way off on this subject, but have strong misguided feelings on it.
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