Who do you prefer to turn to for business advice? Win best-selling business books!

DanMartin · Aug 29, 2008

UK Business Forums and our sister website BusinessZone.co.uk are pleased to announce that we are sponsoring the National Federation of Enterprise Agencies' Dimensions of Enterprise Support Conference in York on 9-11 September. Full details here.

Designed to highlight the diversity of enterprise support activities and approaches undertaken within the sector, the conference will also examine how enterprise support may need to evolve in the future to meet business requirements - and that's where you come in!

I will be presenting at the event the views of you, the small business entrepreneur, so it's your perfect opportunity to make sure your voice is heard by the people who should be helping you to achieve success.

With that in mind, I'm interested to here you views. The first question is featured in the poll above: who do you prefer to turn to for business support? We are also asking how do you prefer to receive business advice?

Please post below your thoughts, comments and experiences - both good and bad - about the state of small business support - as well as your answers to these questions:

Are support services meeting your needs, and if not, what should they do to improve?
Are business support services as accessible as they could be?
What should organisations like Enterprise Agencies be doing to better interact with entrepreneurs?

As a thankyou, everyone who takes part in the poll will be entered into a prize draw to win a copy of the best-selling Marketing On A Beermat, while the member posting the best comment below will be win a copy of Sales On A Beermat.

trevorwood · Sep 1, 2008

I can't answer that question because I use a variety of sources, there's no "one preferred" as different sources can supply different information. For example, I use Business Link for grant funding, various free IT related courses they're running and I'm just getting a mentor through them. I use professional for financial/tax, SEO, etc. Other business owners I tap for their experience, ditto friends (but not relations!) who work in areas that I need help (confession time - my best friend is a VAT inspector!!)

So - there's no preferred source, sorry

DanMartin · Sep 1, 2008

Further to the above poll, I've started a separate one asking in what way do you prefer to receive business advice?

gogreen · Sep 1, 2008

I think Business Link, Entrerprise agencies etc. have their place when you are just starting out and have no business knowledge whatsoever BUT they are generally staffed by people with little business experience.

Getting advice from another business is by far the best route - it is all practical rather then from a text book

Anne

tcg · Sep 2, 2008

Like Trevor says, it depends upon the type of situation you find yourself in, and the type of advice you are looking for. I have used all the above at various stages of my career and for different reasons.

I have to agree with Anne, the one time I used Business Link, many years ago, I did not find them useful, although the process of having to explain the business and my goals to them did help me sort out a few issues in my mind so it was not a complete loss.

Right now I stick to the last three on the list.

Ozzy · Sep 2, 2008

Like Alasdair, I have used many sources of support throughtout my business life and to a degree they have their place. Unfortunately as my own experience and knowledge has improved I have since learnt that BusinessLink mentoring and advisors are in the main retired "managers" who want to keep a finger in. In my experience the are unable to comprehend new business trends and technology changes (ecommerce et all) so their "20 Year Business Plan" advice simply wont work! It is hard enough writing a 2 year plan in a rapidly changing marketplace

I have a lot of respect for "good" accountants and tend to lean on mine a lot, because a good one will have a nice variety of client experiences to refer to. I don't always take his advice, but he is great for bouncing ideas off and getting differing percpectives. I also tried a business coach but I found myself coaching him more than he coaching me! Bless him

I've never used the likes of the FSB, but I have mentored on behalf of a local enterprise agency a few times. So based on the fact they use local relevant business owners then I think that would tie in nicely with the "other business owners" option. I do regularily chat on the phone with competitors, customers and suppliers in my industries, sharing knowledge and experiences. I find this extremely valuable, as do they too.

Cornish Steve · Sep 2, 2008

Banks are in business to make money out of business owners - interest and fees on loans and other banking services. While my success benefits them, I don't see too much alignment in our goals. Accountants can provide useful help, but only in certain aspects of business (so it's very important to find a good accountant). Trust a lawyer? OK - beyond the stereotypes, they can help too in some specific areas - but the advice is very expensive and limited in scope.

Government's record on managing anything is abysmal so you can be sure I'd never turn to any government program - or any other program where the advice comes from people who've never actually run a small business. The less the government gets involved in anything, the better.

I've benefited from a local program in which retired executives give free business advice. They've "been there, done that."

Far and away the best source of information, though, is from friends and former colleagues who have started and run their own business successfully. I'm fortunate in that I can count on candid advice from several such people, all millionaires and mostly retired, some of whom I've known for 20+ years. The difference here is that I know them well enough that they know they can be very blunt and painfully honest in their comments, knowing full well that I want to hear the truth and not something superficial or polite.

DanMartin · Sep 2, 2008

Ozzy said:
I've never used the likes of the FSB, but I have mentored on behalf of a local enterprise agency a few times.

Interesting point Ozzy. Like you said, a major criticism of government-backed services is that they are staffed by people with no business experience. Good to see at least some of the Enterprise Agencies can't be accused of that. Has anyone else had experience of their services?

Focused · Sep 2, 2008

It's horses for courses really. I would ask someone in the same profession for advice on back-office sytems for instance but wouldn't dream of asking for advice in the area of attacting clients to my business unless they were in another part of the country.
There are some terrific business books out there which give good advice, Im just reading Book Yourself Solid by Michael Port and Get Clients Now by C.J. Hayden and they both offer good structured marketing advice.

Don't let the slightly negative comments about Business Link put anyone off. Yes, there are the hangers on but I have been on some of their seminars where they bring in practising experts and they have been really good. I think at least one of the presenters I saw contributes from time to time on here. Is that right VJ and you are PR?

Regards

Focused

trevorwood · Sep 2, 2008

Focused said:
Get Clients Now by C.J. Hayden

Great book - along with Outsmarting Goliath by Debra Koontz Traverso (thinks - yes I know a bad thing at this time if the day - but perhaps we should have a book recommendations/reviews section)

gamer1810 · Sep 3, 2008

Hi All

This is a subject very close to my heart!

I am a relatively inexperienced as a business owner and have tried to use Business Link a few times in the past.

My experience is that they are OK, if you want some general information and can be useful for reviewing your business plan cash flow forecasts etc.

However, over and above that, they seem to be pretty ineffectual. Very few advisors it seems have actually run a business. Many come from employment and have specific useful knowledge ie Banking, but means their advice can be very one dimensional.

For example, when I first met with an advisor when I set up my current business, after going through my cashflows and business plan he announced that the business didnt have legs, I wouldnt get a loan from the bank and that investors wouldn't be interested. Nevertheless, I launched the business, with help from my bank, it went profitable in its first full year and I now have investor interest!

I read an interview with Doug Richards where he said the Government should scrap most of the many agencies set up to "help" new businesses and put the money into more grants and other forms of funding! My personal view is they should put Doug in charge of deciding how our taxes are spent in this regard!

I truly believe that there is the potential for Business link to do more harm than good, if the advice they offer isnt based on real business experience.

Judging by the Poll results, I am guessing many people have had a similar experience!

DanMartin · Sep 3, 2008

gamer1810 said:
Very few advisors it seems have actually run a business. Many come from employment and have specific useful knowledge ie Banking, but means their advice can be very one dimensional.

I think your experiences definitely are echoed by other small business owners. Business Link is going through a major shake-up at the moment so let's hope more advisors with business experience are brought in. That isn't to say though that there aren't entrepreneurs who have been helped by Business Link but there does seem to be inconsistencies around the UK in terms of the support received. If more support professionals interacted more in the places where business owners network amongst themselves, it would prove very beneficial.

adam_uk · Sep 3, 2008

Good question.

I get my advise from my mentors not business advisors at Senta or other agencies because I found when I sit with them, they have no idea. But my mentors do run their own businesses, and are of higher level than myself inand run global businesses.

So, for me it is common sense to learn from those who are already where I want to be, than someone behind a desk who isn't running a business, or use to run a business but working in a job. Nothing wrong with a job but I want someone who believes in what they do and they do it by example, and can show me the way.

I do sometimes, meet other entrepreneurs in my field and they too are of higher level than me. I ALWAYS take advice from those who earn more than me, who are more experienced than myself because they have done it and can show me the way.

trevorwood · Sep 3, 2008

DanMartin said:
Business Link is going through a major shake-up at the moment so let's hope more advisors with business experience are brought in.

In the East Midlands, Business Link is now jointly run by the Leicestershire, Derbyshire & Notts and Northampton chambers of commerce. It seems to be doing some good. I've got 2 good things out of it so far.

1st - Business Link contacted me with regards to Network Midlands and offered to partner our events. We have to co-brand our emails (which we do with any partner anyway), provide them with exhibition space (which we do for any partner anyway) and provide them with a full lst of all attendees (which we provide to all attendees anyway). In return, they will market our events to their database and pay us what will work out at about 20% of the turnover of an event.

2nd - they are starting a "mentoring for all" scheme - 90% government funded. I get a business mentor for a year for £250. At the end I have to provide a written testimonial. Can't be bad.

Cornish Steve · Sep 3, 2008

trevorwood said:
they are starting a "mentoring for all" scheme - 90% government funded. I get a business mentor for a year for £250. At the end I have to provide a written testimonial. Can't be bad.

Why can't it be bad? Let's think about this.

When we spend our hard-earned money on an expensive product, we get to choose what we buy. So, when you purchase this 'mentor' product for £250, do you have that right? Can you choose a mentor based on their published credentials and CV? Have they started and run a successful business in your industry? Do the program supervisors guarantee the calibre of the advice you'll receive? This is how a private company would operate because anything less would be terrible customer service.

But I'm guessing that you'll be given no say in who works with you. It could be a bureaucrat who knows nothing except government rules and regulations or a retired civil servant who knows nothing about running a profitable business. I'm also guessing you'll have to accept some type of disclaimer so that, if the give you terrible advice, there's nothing you can do about it. Why pay good money for that? If my cynicism is unfounded, do let me know.

Instead, why not call up a friend who has run a successful company? For the cost of dinner and a drink at the local pub, you'd get practical advice from someone who's actually walked the road ahead of you. You'd learn more from a real entrepreneur in an hour than you ever would from a government bureaucrat.

Just because something is on sale, 90% off, doesn't mean it's any good. Worse, your taxes are subsidising this program.

trevorwood · Sep 3, 2008

Cornish Steve said:
Worse, your taxes are subsidising this program.

At least I'm getting some of my taxes back this way

I'll let you know how I get on - the scheme is new and I don't yet know who my mentor is - BTW a business mentor is different from a business coach. I'm guessing, from the blurb and the interview I had with one of the organisers that a) they try to match a mentor with business experience in a similar area to me and b) I can change the mentor if (s)he proves no good.

one other thing - the person who interviewed me said that the mentors don't work for Business Link, they're all self employed and contracted to Business Link part time as well as running their own businesses.

I understand your cynicism but I'm willing to be a bit more open minded

Cornish Steve · Sep 3, 2008

trevorwood said:
At least I'm getting some of my taxes back this way

True.

trevorwood said:
I'll let you know how I get on - the scheme is new and I don't yet know who my mentor is

Yes, please do. I'd really like to be proved wrong on this one.

adam_uk · Sep 4, 2008

trevorwood said:
BTW a business mentor is different from a business coach.

How are they different?

A mentor is something who has done what you're doing, e.g. business and is successful at it with a higher level. They guide you, help you see the pitfalls, and even help you to design design a system for your company to run accordingly, and everyone in your business e.g. staff then knows each system for each side of the business and job. So that part we know but..

That's not all. A Business Mentor is also a friend, so much so, like for me, my mentor has become part of my family. They help to guide in self development, in life. Transparency and openess is needed.

So mentor isn't just a business expert who has made their millions and already there to guide you in the same line of business. This needs to be understood under the principles of who to choose as a mentor.

You need a mentor who you can trust, get along with, and this takes a turn of friendship, spending time with each other, getting this mentor to see you for what you are and being transparent on all areas of your life. Because whatever information you give, you hold back then they will advice based on what you give them.

Why?

Because communication, daily, maybe four times a week is essential for a mentor to help. It's not enough having a once a week or month mentor. A mentor has to be part of the bigger picture, and they help with:

business, family, health, mental, social, and a couple of more areas that completes the cycyle.

That's what mentors suppose to really do - help the student to apply the laws and principles of success in business and...all the areas of life. So I don't just have a mentor who is good at business.

I choose a mentor who is REALLY success and in all areas of life. I'm glad I did because when home is right, family life and time with them is right, mentality is right - the business becomes right and grows faster and healthier.

It's not success when someone got money and other part of their life is in a mess. It can mess up the business. When you're miserable, family life in a mess, attitude stinks, your unhealthy then business is not going to grow.

That's why having a mentor and knowing what one is, is very important. A mentor and a coach are the same. It's we who define it and put it in a box. Choosing one very carefully will have an impact on your business.

Looking forward to see how it goes with you.

adventurelife · Sep 4, 2008

I can look at it from several sides of the fence. Yes I know their is only two

I have been a mentor for one of the large government agencies.
I have been at MD level in a large PLC business
I have done turnrounds on medium sized £5-£15m companies
And last but not least I run my own businesses.

My advice comes from

My own experience
Network or individuals I can pick up the phone to who run large very large companies and also several who run medium sized and small businesses.
Financial professionals when required
Legal professionals when required

Last in the list is government agencies. When I was a mentor I was there youngest and everyone else seemed to be ex middle to senior managers who held paid positions. There were a few who had run their own businesses, but they like me did not last.

I really find it hard to take advice from people ( professionals excepted) who have not run their own business.

I like to have a network of business people who I can talk to have built huge businesses but also have failed on several ventures as this gives them a much more balanced view. I also like to be able to speak to a group of small business owners who have kept their business small or got it to the medium level.

By nature we are all free thinking and proactive individuals because we have started our own businesses. That does not fit with government agencies. I would close them all create panels of business owners to award the money saved to the best proposals they let them get on with it.

DanMartin · Sep 4, 2008

Many thanks for your comments adventurelife. Interesting stuff. Have you had experience with enterprise agencies?

adventurelife · Sep 4, 2008

DanMartin said:
Many thanks for your comments adventurelife. Interesting stuff. Have you had experience with enterprise agencies?

During PLC life in the north of England we tried working with them on a few projects and it was a waste of time and energy. In Scotland I was a mentor for one of the west of Scotland agencies.

When I went my own route I went to a couple of meetings with my local one and could not find anybody who had any " in the trenches experience" and basically did not carry any "weight" in discussion.

I really do not see a role for them , which I am sure they could pull out thousand of stats to say out they have helped businesses, but my nature I am a maverick and I do not really want help . I would hope that you get lots of people saying they helped them and their business would not be where it is without them as I really do hope my view is tainted by my nature.

Delboy · Sep 5, 2008

at the mo my main source of advice's are forums,

i have joined 3-4 and theres one or 2 good ones (this ones the best though) why forums ? well I'm talking to others that are either in the same position or more commonly in a better possition and know whats going on. the other way i have to admit i learn alot, is by screwing up. Learn from your mistakes i was told a fair while ago, and i do. it helps the buisness partners mum works for the inland revenue or what ever they are called now in small buisness's and there tax so that helps.

i tried to use buisness link, but they didnt seem very intrested!

del

Promise Clean · Sep 5, 2008

Hi Sean and The Brush here...

I never just turn to one source for any advice. I run business by keeping open 4 UK bank accounts. This means we always get what we need when we need it and at a price that keeps us on the right side of making profits.

Netowrking can be a great place to gain advice. In today's busy world people never spend enough time explaining what you get for the money you pay. It is best to be open with every one and they will give you more advice and try to educate you enough to make the right decision.

Every one can be an expert these days as we have that many blogs, General Business Forums and face to face contacts when networking you can get advice on any subject at almost any time.

I love it.

Sean & The Brush

Promise Clean

Sue1 · Sep 8, 2008

As a new business I have so far found the best advice has come from forums and meeting with others in a similar business. Those that have actually done it are generally far more aware of the pitfalls and far more honest in pointing out any flaws than other 'advisors'. In a previous life (before children) I was a banker and had to offer advice to some of our business customers despite never having been in business for myself and with a very onesided view of things.

DanMartin · Sep 10, 2008

Many thanks for everyone's comments in this thread. I presented the results at the NFEA annual conference this morning. Given that enterprise agencies came fifth in the poll, the audience seemed to take it very well!

As I pointed out in my speech, it has a lot to do with marketing. I've spoken today to many people who are running agencies which are doing some great work but unfortunately few people know about it. Many also admitted they have failed to embrace opportunities the internet has thrown up such as forums like UKBF. I got lots of positive feedback so let's hope it makes a difference.

Tomorrow morning, the director of the government's Business Support Simplification Programme will be speaking - that could be an interesting one, especially if she takes questions!

I've be reporting back in more detail about the events at the conference next week on BusinessZone.co.uk.

debbidoo · Sep 10, 2008

My father has been running his own businesses since I was a baby, and my father-in-law ran his own business until he retired a few years ago, so I know I can rely on them for good advice based on their own experiences. Hence, I voted 'friends and relations'.

But if the option "UKBF" had been in the list, I would've chosen that instead - UKBF's members' combined experience and knowledge is a resource a lot of us couldn't do without.

(OK, I know "other business owners" is up there, but I'd approach UKBF members specifically, if I needed advice)

Promise Clean · Sep 13, 2008

Do you think advise is every place you look since the age of the World Wide Web?

adam_uk · Sep 13, 2008

Promise Clean said:
Do you think advise is every place you look since the age of the World Wide Web?

No because

I don't know the person who written the articles or his credentials.

If they speak what works and what doesn't, I won't know. Internet can be like the toilet, where anyone can get a pen and write on the wall and you won't know who is who. Even a teenager can sound like an expert online.

The thing is - to be able to distinguish and seperate the information from people writing and they haven't achieved it. There is a surge today, of lots of articles being written by people to move traffic to their site but also to just share, but many are not established really in business. Or reached a level to give advice and mentor.

That's why I rather go for mentoring because I know the person, seen their success, seen the fruit of their labour, and seen those who associate or those who stand around this person has succeeded due to his or her mentorship.

You need to give time and you'll later know who is who, and who is not what they say. That's the good thing with forums, online social places. You mess up; then man does it spread. So one might as well be transparent and honest in first place.

It pays to be honest online and transparent. Or no matter where you are in the world.

I am very cautious about taking advice online. I double and tripple check it always.

Promise Clean · Sep 13, 2008

Yes, I understand this. When I click on your profile I can see you have 18 posts. If I read through them I can see you make enough valid comments to know your stuff. I just would not take the first advice post and say that's for me.

We need to be real about this.

Sean x

Promise Clean

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Who do you prefer to turn to for business advice? Win best-selling business books!

Who do you prefer to turn to for business advice?

Government service (Business Link etc)

Independent organisation (Enterprise Agencies, FSB, chambers of comerce etc)

Professional (i.e. lawyer, accountant, consultant etc)

Other business owners

Friends and relations

tcg

Founder of UKBF

Delboy

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