The poor will be sterilised

Not quite but if this chap had his way though.

Don't ya just love our Classless society.

Is it the inbreeding or the sheer lack of any breeding.?:|

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...ill-encourage-poor-to-breed-says-tory-peer.do

Earl

 

[sysops]

The Labour way is much better - the poor must be incentivised to produce as many offspring as possible, and to avoid going to work at all costs.

 

[Cornish Steve]

One of the members of President Obama's inner circle has proposed previously adding chemicals to the water that flows from our taps as a way of reducing the fertility of the general population and hence slowing the growth of the world's population. It's really scary when people with such opinions are put into positions of considerable power.

 

Always gets me how people who purely by chance are born into a certain lifestyle look down on those that are not so fortunate.

Works on an international scale also .

Unbelievable stupidity.IMHO

P.S Steve why can't I see the time out section in the post menu.?

Earl

 

[in1980]

I'm yet to hear what's actually wrong with that this chap said. It's factually correct so I assume it's something to do with the word "breeding", sounding animalistic and so on? He also of course used the word while referring to both the "upper classes" and the "lower classes", so we can't pretend that he was singling out the lower classes as the animals.

 

[BizGurl]

Funny how he's a millionnaire yet his 'bright' niece and nephew dropped out of uni as they didn't want to incur student debt! These upper'clarse' people are right tightwads aren't they?!

 

[BizGurl]

Well if anyone was going to agree it was always going to be you wasnt it

Of course. In this persons views, if you're poor or live on a council estate, you're nothing more than scum.

 

[Cornish Steve]

It works both ways. When we lived in the Midlands before moving to the US, I worked in central London. Every day, I was ignored by most people on the train because I lived on a council estate. Similarly, my wife and I were ignored by most people on the estate because I went to work in a suit. Since then, I've held back from criticising people of any station and am sensitive to all comments about class.

Speaking frankly, why should someone's children going to university, not going to university, or dropping out of university be a reason to criticise the parents? Such things happen to families from all walks of life. For that matter, why do we feel the need to criticise people simply because they are wealthy or happen to be successful?

 

[sysops]

I have no problem with someone who is poor and lives on a council estate.

I have a huge problem with a system which penalises hard working, risk taking people who are the producers in our economy, and rewards those who choose to do nothing but have children.

Want to see what happens when you pump money at the bottom end? Have a read of this:

http://eprints.ucl.ac.uk/14841/1/14841.pdf

Here's the relevant bit:

In 1999 the UK government made major reforms to the system of child-contingent benefits, including the introduction of Working Families' Tax Credit and an increase in means-tested Income Support for families with children. Between 1999-2003 government spending per-child on these benefits rose by 50 per cent in real terms, a change that was unprecedented over a thirty year period. This paper examines whether there was a response in childbearing. To identify the effect of the reforms, we exploit the fact that the spending increases were targeted at low-income
households and we use the (exogenously determined) education of the woman and her partner to define treatment and control groups. We argue that the reforms are most likely to have a positive fertility effect for women in couples and show that this is the case. We find that there was an increase in births (by around 15 per cent) among the group affected by the reforms.

 

[BizGurl]

It works both ways. When we lived in the Midlands before moving to the US, I worked in central London. Every day, I was ignored by most people on the train because I lived on a council estate. Similarly, my wife and I were ignored by most people on the estate because I went to work in a suit. Since then, I've held back from criticising people of any station and am sensitive to any comments about class.

Speaking frankly, why should someone's children going to university, not going to university, or dropping out of university be a reason to criticise the parents? Such things happen to families from all walks of life. For that matter, why do we feel the need to criticise people simply because they are wealthy or happen to be successful?

This is new to me. I've lived in nice areas where I was looked down on for not acting fake and for not being a lawyer/accountant/banker. I've lived on various council estates growing up, and never had any issues. My parent worked and was not treated any differently by council tenants. I'm a graduate (quite a few on this estate) but work, ended up on a council estate due to problems, and have had no issues with locals, and am a normal member of the community. I'm sure it does work both ways in some places, but in my experience, I've only ever had problems with so-called upper or middle class people who think they're superior to anyone who earns a penny less than them.
I'm right at home in my neighbourhood, and will never be ashamed of my less well-off background. After my experiences no-one could pay me to live in these 'middle-class' areas again, and I don't want my son to mix with people who treat others like trash, because of their background.

 

[Gillie]

This is new to me. I've lived in nice areas where I was looked down on for not acting fake and for not being a lawyer/accountant/banker. I've lived on various council estates growing up, and never had any issues. My parent worked and was not treated any differently by council tenants. I'm a graduate (quite a few on this estate) but work, ended up on a council estate due to problems, and have had no issues with locals, and am a normal member of the community. I'm sure it does work both ways in some places, but in my experience, I've only ever had problems with so-called upper or middle class people who think they're superior to anyone who earns a penny less than them.
I'm right at home in my neighbourhood, and will never be ashamed of my less well-off background. After my experiences no-one could pay me to live in these 'middle-class' areas again, and I don't want my son to mix with people who treat others like trash, because of their background.

Ok, so why does being a banker/accountant/lawyer mean you are going to be fake?

Me thinks you are generalising now as much as you claim others do about council estates!!

 

I have no problem with someone who is poor and lives on a council estate.

I have a huge problem with a system which penalises hard working, risk taking people who are the producers in our economy, and rewards those who choose to do nothing but have children.

Well thats a strange atittude as childbirth is considered by many to be the most productive thing humans can do allied to it probably being the principle reason we exist.

Earl

 

[BizGurl]

Ok, so why does being a banker/accountant/lawyer mean you are going to be fake?

Me thinks you are generalising now as much as you claim others do about council estates!!

The people I've ever come into contact with, or lived amongst, are full of anger about poorer people who manage to break through barriers and get to live in/experience 'their environment'. Fakeness shows through attitude, disgust, comments. It's not nice being treated like a germ or **** off the pavement because you have a council estate background.

I'm talking from personal experiences, and since there have been quite a lot, yes it may seem like a generalisation.
Just listen to the way poor people are spoken/written about in the mainstream media. Now thats generalisation.
But what can I say, the 100% truth is that I've never had any problems with youths whizzing by on a scooter or other 'chavs' but always seem to have problems when living in 'nice' areas.
And no, I don't look, dress, act or talk like a 'chav'!

 

[Gillie]

The people I've ever come into contact with, or lived amongst, are full of anger about poorer people who manage to break through barriers and get to live in/experience 'their environment'. Fakeness shows through attitude, disgust, comments. It's not nice being treated like a germ or **** off the pavement because you have a council estate background.

I'm talking from personal experiences, and since there have been quite a lot, yes it may seem like a generalisation.
Just listen to the way poor people are spoken/written about in the mainstream media. Now thats generalisation.
But what can I say, the 100% truth is that I've never had any problems with youths whizzing by on a scooter or other 'chavs' but always seem to have problems when living in 'nice' areas.
And no, I don't look, dress, act or talk like a 'chav'!

Ah but you see, I can say that I have never come across the false middle class in my experience and that yes I have come across chavs who needed putting down at birth ... everyones life experiences are different, therefore everyone will generalise, therefore discussions such as this are circles - with one side of the partition, trying to out do the other ... with the circles getting smaller and smaller as the arguments goes round and round!

So yes, to state that bankers/lawyers/accountants are all people who are false and look down on others, is merely a sound bite!

 

[sysops]

Well thats a strange atittude as childbirth is considered by many to be the most productive thing humans can do allied to it probably being the principle reason we exist.

Earl

This is a popular meme perpetuated by the Eastenders "IT'S MY BAYBEE" crowd.

Any moron can reproduce. It is not an achievement.

 

[BizGurl]

This is a popular meme perpetuated by the Eastenders "IT'S MY BAYBEE" crowd.

Any moron can reproduce. It is not an achievement.

I'm sorry by my son is an achievement.

 

[BizGurl]

Ah but you see, I can say that I have never come across the false middle class in my experience and that yes I have come across chavs who needed putting down at birth ... everyones life experiences are different, therefore everyone will generalise, therefore discussions such as this are circles - with one side of the partition, trying to out do the other ... with the circles getting smaller and smaller as the arguments goes round and round!

So yes, to state that bankers/lawyers/accountants are all people who are false and look down on others, is merely a sound bite!

True! But the truth also remains that no one gets more generalised and generally badly treated than poorer people.

 

[sysops]

I'm sorry by my son is an achievement.

Why are you sorry?

And no, he isn't.

 

[Gillie]

True! But the truth also remains that no one gets more generalised and generally badly treated than poorer people.

See ... you are generalising about generalising!!

 

[BizGurl]

Why are you sorry?

And no, he isn't.

You obviously don't have kids than. And if you do, you can't regard them more highly than any qualifications/jobs/etc you may have.

 

[BizGurl]

See ... you are generalising about generalising!!

Oh cut it out wind-up merchant!

 

[sysops]

So let me get this right, I am the only person here who doesn't think that people should not receive financial incentives to reproduce? REALLY??

 

[BizGurl]

So let me get this right, I am the only person here who doesn't think that people should not receive financial incentives to reproduce? REALLY??

I did not say a thing about receiving financial incentives to have children (I agree thats wrong). I do have a problem with you telling me my son is not an achievement. Yes perhaps any 'moron' can 'reproduce' but I'm sure most people who have kids will also agree that they are an achievement.

 

[Gillie]

Oh cut it out wind-up merchant!

Merely playing devils advocate - its a pointless discussion to try and 'out do' each other on the grounds of generalisations - facts can back both sides of this argument and it merely depends on who shouts loudest!

 

[sysops]

I did not say a thing about receiving financial incentives to have children (I agree thats wrong). I do have a problem with you telling me my son is not an achievement. Yes perhaps any 'moron' can 'reproduce' but I'm sure most people who have kids will also agree that they are an achievement.

If you wish to regard your son as an achievement, I don't have a problem with that - to you, he is an achievement. But not to me.

I stand by the 'any moron can reproduce' comment. It takes no skills, no planning, nothing.

 

[BizGurl]

Merely playing devils advocate - its a pointless discussion to try and 'out do' each other on the grounds of generalisations - facts can back both sides of this argument and it merely depends on who shouts loudest!

I know. I'm also a poor hillbilly who must live on a farm and can't possibly have internet or cable TV as I'm from the north east. (Seriously, I got asked this stuff when I went to study in the midlands, by both midlanders and southern students!)

 

[estwig]

So let me get this right, I am the only person here who doesn't think that people should not receive financial incentives to reproduce? REALLY??

Damn right I want the money. I'm busy raising two good tax payers, who will contribute to society both morally and financially and who will improve the country once their old enough, in their own way, for everyone.

Why shouldn't I receive financial assistance during the expensive childhood, before they go on to contribute??

 

[BizGurl]

@Sirearl,
I like how you cause rows and then sit back and watch lol

sorry, couldn't help myself.

 

This is a popular meme perpetuated by the Eastenders "IT'S MY BAYBEE" crowd.

Any moron can reproduce. It is not an achievement.

Well you can't.

Afraid the honour of the most productive and creative humans goes to the fair sex.

Earl

 

[Gillie]

I know. I'm also a poor hillbilly who must live on a farm and can't possibly have internet or cable TV as I'm from the north east. (Seriously, I got asked this stuff when I went to study in the midlands, by both midlanders and southern students!)

Yet I spent 15 years living in the Home Counties and working in London yet not one person every stero typed me as a typical Northerner ... see for every experience you state means something bad about a class or an attitude someone can refute ...

 

[sysops]

Damn right I want the money. I'm busy raising two good tax payers, who will contribute to society both morally and financially and who will improve the country once their old enough, in their own way, for everyone.

Why shouldn't I receive financial assistance during the expensive childhood, before they go on to contribute??

What if you were living in a council house, jobless, and raising 6 good future leeches?

 

[estwig]

What if you were living in a council house, jobless, and raising 6 good future leaches?

Then you would have my permission to...................Shoot me!!!

 

[sysops]

Then you would have my permission to...................Shoot me!!!

Exactly - and yet it's people in that exact position who have the greatest incentive to have more offspring. Does that make sense?

 

[estwig]

Exactly - and yet it's people in that exact position who have the greatest incentive to have more offspring. Does that make sense?

yes it does, not wishing to sound condescending, how would you differentiate them from me??

Who would you shoot??

 

[sysops]

Hopefully he would teach them how to spell leeches pmfsl.

Wow, really? You're picking up on a spelling mistake?

Really??

Seriously you seem like you have a chip on your shoulder, watching Jeremy Kyle does not give you a balanced view of people who live on council estates, the same as watching Abu Hamza ranting about everyone in the "west" does not give you a balanced view of the Muslim world.

[/quote]

No chip, I'm just very aware of how much tax I pay, and where most of it goes.

 

@Sirearl,
I like who you cause rows and then sit back and watch lol

Not at all just stating something that would seem patently obvious to anyone with an ounce of common sense.

I mean after all our scouring around trying to earn a few bob .

what do most people do with it in the end.?

Not a lot of grannies in peoples wills.

Earl

 

[sysops]

yes it does, not wishing to sound condescending, how would you differentiate them from me??

I wouldn't.

Who would you shoot??

I wouldn't shoot anyone, I just wouldn't give people benefits just for having kids!

You'd be fine, because you can afford to raise your kids. Those who can't would a) have a strong reason not to have more kids and b) have a good incentive to get a job (or a better paid job than the one they have).

 

[estwig]

I wouldn't.



I wouldn't shoot anyone, I just wouldn't give people benefits just for having kids!

You'd be fine, because you can afford to raise your kids. Those who can't would a) have a strong reason not to have more kids and b) have a good incentive to get a job (or a better paid job than the one they have).

Good answers, I'll go with that.

sysops for prime minister then??

 

[sysops]

But at the end of the day im not outside Buckingham palace sneering at the queen because its some of my tax that is keeping her and her family in jewels.

I'm happy to pay for the Queen. I think she's a nice lady, and I think the Monarchy pull in a good deal of tourist revenues.

 

[sysops]

sysops for prime minister then??

No need, they are on the right track (but they need to be more gutsy with the cuts).