plumbing training course what do you think???

[paulbrogden]

tony bryden from train 4 trade skills

hi i had 2.5 hours interview today from a college adviser a so called person who seemed very nice but at the end i realized he was a salesman turning up in a black audi wanting to discuss the plumbing course where he talked about the shortages being out their however i have a relative in the plumbing trade who says because the down turn plumbers are not needed as much as the gov, say. any way tony discussed my situation such as my debts too wanted to know about my work history the things i had done i live in batley but i found it a very intense interview at the end then he discussed the costs by the end i felt if i had the money would have signed up.... if its a scam i must say its a very good one. any way the costs involved was £3950 or 22.50 per week i think they offer you fianance for the coursethe domestic course part lasts for 1 year which involves 6 weeks practical the rest is theory and virtual relialty training on the computer... their after another year for nvq level 3 and gas training. the full training including the proffesional part costs £5700 and or £35 a week.

he was still insistant their is work out their and claimed after doing the first year... could work doing basic plumbing to pay for the course it is still a loan you have to pay it is quicker than college he claimed full training takes in all about 2-3 years he claimed.

but given what plumbers are saying as well as my relative it appears work is short so maybe becoming a plumber is not a good idea but he was insisting that you need qualifications in a set trade to make a good living and was banging on about this he was saying the evening welding course i was doing wont get me any where as its only a certificate it seems i wont be able to get a job at all based on what he saying very depressing he kept going on about how does it feel to be unemployed how depressed does it make you.. what do you people think? thanks for reading...

 

[MH1]

Hard too comment on the course, but the constant references to how do you feel to be unemployed was a sales technique, not one I agree with.

I would suggest you chat to your local college regarding training, the tutors are very approachable, I know many have a poor view of many of these courses, but there must be a few good ones as well.

There is a down turn, but once you have a trade you will make money throughout your life, but most plumbers do not make the amounts suggested in the national press, but it is a decent living if done well.

Plumbing or Electrician is what I would have done if I had my time over again, since being qualified helps to protect the rates to a small extent. Traditionally working for a pittance as a trainee under another plumber with day release to a college is the best way to go, but few seem to be after trainee's at the moment.

One route you might also consider is joining the forces to be trained in a trade.

 

[Yourlocaltrades]

My son done this-as he wanted to do it-he is now at college and duely dumped this course-his words, "its useless".

He has rougly a few months left and the college course is complete, so i would say "go to college".

For what was supposed to be paid for what you got-a black folder and loads of info, plus the hassle of sending of test papers and hearing nothing back! is it really worth it??

 

[CKG]

Save your money and go and work for free for someone if you really want to get into the trade. It'll probably cost you less and be a far better education.

Plumbing isn't hard, it's a piece of cake to learn the basics. I could probably teach you them in a few weeks on the job.

It's knowing how to do a good job quickly that takes years to learn. And you can't teach someone how to have common sense either.

And yes, there is still pleanty of work out there. Though alot less that there used to be! And lets be honest. Rolling about in dust and grime, lugging tons of tools around all day long and having hands that resemble elephants feet doesn't add up to the plum job they'd have you believe!

The only people who profit out of these courses are the people running them.

As said before speak to your local college - the tutors do keep an ear in with the lads on the ground for trainee positions that don't get advertised anywhere other than on the trade grapevine.

 

[Test It]

I hear the same thing said in my industry (electrical) and about private companies who are charging silly amounts of money for courses that could be done through your local college at a fraction of the price.

I would recommend the college route instead of a quick fix short (or what is the buzz word these days?) fast track course. I too would agree with CKG, try and get in the industry outside of your course for some hands on experience.

Remember there will always be work for good tradesmen but seem to think that there are far to many of these training (sales) companies giving people the wrong picture of the associated industry.

Think smart, have a plan, its your future - good luck!

 

[Beachcomber]

AVOID!!!

I looked into one of these training centres myself - offered the earth, guarantees job placements, an array of qualifications / certificates etc.

They do offer training, but it's training that is available at any decent size college for far less.

Many of their 'qualifications' are their own in-house qualifications that are not recognised by the industry - the 'guaranteed job placement' could be 5 days jobbing with a tutor. Upon close scrutiny the entire set-up collapsed.

They were very clever, their marketing is very well thought out - even to the extent of using the same font style / colours for the company logo as you see used for city and guilds certificates.

If you want to get into plumbing, go to college - contact local plumbers and offer to work odd days / weekends for low rates, even for free as you will need some on-site assessments to get your qualifications.

But as for these training centres - AVOID - AVOID - AVOID!

 

[George01]

[FONT=&quot]Plumbing trade is a profitable business which brings in cash flow and profit. There are some useful tips, that one can keep in mind to launch a successful plumbing business.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Promote Prudently[/FONT][FONT=&quot] - Try to understand where your clientele, which means your target audience. Learn about where they are coming from and what they want.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Interact With Your Clientele[/FONT][FONT=&quot]- [/FONT][FONT=&quot]There is no harm in asking your clients, how they got to know about your services. This way, you would understand your unique selling proposition and can put them in your ads.[/FONT]

 

I owned an electrical business for a few years, and I wanted to sponsor juniors through college courses - couldnt get them fast enough. Problem was the demand for places on college courses way outstripped supply, so what few college courses there were were impossible to get. They told me then - it was even worse for plumbing.

Dont know if this has changed - but the colleges dont seem geared up to do it which is why the scammers can thrive.

 

[dal]

AVOID!!!!!
Definitely. It does seem that the NVQ is slowly replacing the City & Guilds. However the NVQ is easily obtained at a fraction of the cost of what he is charging. You're only there 20 hours a week so you're not going to pick up a lot.
I recently obtained my NVQ by someone coming down about two or three visits. Took some photographs, and a small bit of paperwork lol. The whole thing is a scam. Just another piece of paper, to make you appear more trained/ competent. Just like the CSCS Card. It's a business.
Majority of the teachers cannot do the job theirself properly, hence the reason they become teachers (Not applying to all of them, as a few of them are very good). However in my experience on-site, I've been working next to guys that are useless, and they go on to teach in colleges lol. It's crazy!
There's a plumber on the job I am working at the moment. He only has this job going at the moment (Granted he earns nice money), all he has to do is a few days a week. I spoke with him last week. He thinks that plumbing is becoming old hat. There used to be skill in it (soldering copper pipe, some brazing/ gas welding), now it's becoming all plastic push-joints. So simple a monkey could do it. The jobs don't neccesarily need qualified operatives either. Only if you're working with Gas (Gas-Safe needed now, just changed from CORGI). So you'll earn money there, but harder to get into. Nowadays with all the foreign labour I would steer clear of the plumbing and go for British Gas/ Carillion. My pal works for Carillion, as a Gas Technician. They pay £13,000 more than British Gas. Would go for that if I was you. He earns his money on call-outs not on his salary. It will take a good few years for you to get into the fault-finding though.
However if you did want to still go for the plumbing as your hearts in it. I would work for a small decent firm for peanuts for a little while. As long as they're not using you as a donkey; now and again you get to learn a bit of plumbing. Then someone should have the number of an NVQ man. With the NVQ's they sub-contract them out to the guys. I would pay him privately, with me in the carpentry this guy charged £500 odd for level 2 and about £700-800 on a level 3. This bloke was a good-one though, no doubt there are a few lemons. I would have thought if no-one has NVQ contacts you could do a search on google.

 

[Rainbow Chasers']

I think alot of these courses have been so heavily sold, that the market is flooded. I would say, that if you really want to do it, try a college course!

Much of these gov ideas lately are very flawed, which doesn't really suprise me to be honest - look at the state the country is in now! They do this new apprenticeship scheme for example - In order to qualify you need a uni degree, and then go on the apprentice scheme for a few more years to get qualified in that - paying £8500 a year!!! Who in their right mind would spend 6 years or so at uni to come out and earn that??

What i would suggest is, to have a good thinking session - find a market somewhere - even look on here and see what people are asking about? Advertising, Search Engine Optimisation, Web designs - these are things people need and do not know where to go - this is a market! So maybe look at some of those courses, alot cheaper and there are always business people needing those services. Even take a business course as well and do it yourself! Options are there - but i do feel the mainstream ones are flooded at the moment - if you wish to emigrate to Oz or something, it could be handy but other than that, look at something that is needed! Good luck!

 

[stone love]

there are 00000's of experienced time served plumbers out of work due to the building trade stopping building....... keep your money. No diss' who would you employ???? Same with tiling courses, brick laying, plastering good for DIY skills but you could buy a lot of copper pipe and fittings and teach yourself for a lot less.

 

[G. Lasagne]

there are 00000's of experienced time served plumbers out of work due to the building trade stopping building....... keep your money. No diss' who would you employ???? Same with tiling courses, brick laying, plastering good for DIY skills but you could buy a lot of copper pipe and fittings and teach yourself for a lot less.

Yeah i tend to agree, bad time to be going in to plumbing, but definately worth having for when the economy improves.

 

[PingPongSmooch]

These courses are a con. It takes years to become a competent plumber. There are not many employers who would take you on.

Try and get a job as an Adult Trainee. Ask around some companies and ask if you can contribute towards college costs etc (the money you were going to invest in a course). This will give you a huge advantage over 16 year old school leavers, and you will be learning off time served engineers with bags of experience.

Hope that helps.

P.S. My employer takes on Adult Trainees over School Leavers as they are more mature and willing to learn, so there are companies out there who will not write you off!!

 

[Joseph H]

whoever said plumbing is easy is wrong, its only easy if you know what you are doing.

If you want to learn a trade do it the right way get ask to work with a tradesman 3 days a week and go to college on a proper NVQ / City & Guilds course for the other two days.

i worked for pennys when i first started out.

take it from me i set up on my own the start of last year and iv had to go back to get a full time job im only just starting to work for myself again part time.

these learn quick courses are scams and utterly useless.

 

[Mel72]

I own the advertising agency that advertises on behalf of a lot of training companies and I will only work with ones that have principles and do what it says on the tin.

There are some superb ones out there. You must go for the really practical ones. There is a fantastic one in Crawley run by someone with a background where he had to very ethical.

I agree with the person who said about check out what is needed. One of my clients is a fab IT retraining company with a residential course that does get you a job at the end as their clients are in total demand. Lots of ex forces go there due to their training. They are on the TV (mainly Dave) and I cannot recommend them enough for their ethics.

When the Iraq soldiers came back from war the owner paid for anyone there to train and get a job for free.

they even pay for your petrol to do the Open Day.

Good Luck and watch some of those buggers out there when their men come to your house - too salesy - surely they would want you to see their premises if they were worth anything!

Mel

 

[Liloldsim]

They completely took advantage of me and yes I feel like a fool but I'm not stupid, these guys are good salesmen but they are also bullies.

I'm currently looking into what I can do about my situation and have come accross this link. If you have not already signed this petition and feel aggrieved by T4TS then please enter your details onto this online petition. The closing date is 20th November 2009.

Good luck, would be great to hear if anyone has had any success with getting money back.

petitions.number10.gov.uk/skillstrain/ you will have to copy and paste as i'm not able to post URLs until I've made more than 15 posts to the site.

 

[Beachcomber]

Sorry you got caught out.

Don't ever feel stupid, these guys are professional salesmen who put forward a very well rehearsed and thought out pitch while playing on your own particular 'trigger' points to rank up the emotion.

Good luck with chasing your money - but I suspect they have had you sign a pretty comprehensive contract which gives them lots of wriggle-room to get out of any obligations.

 

[Woot]

Train 4 Trade Skills Scam - Train4TradeSkills Mis-sold Con

I was mis-sold a distance course by Train4TradeSkills (Metropolitan International Schools Limited, same outfit that was behind SkillsTrain featured on BBC Watchdog show, Google it to watch online), I foolishly signed up after a three hour hard-sell, paid £100 deposit by credit card with £5670 remaining to pay by loan financed by Barclays Partner Finance. Over the next few days after reading the small print I realized the promises the salesman had given me about the course were worthless, not in writing, with loads of get-out clauses for them in the small print, and no way for me to get out of the course or withhold payment if needed once it starts and that they would have all my money (over £5000 loan) up front with no way for me to get it back. He also lied about the nearby location of a training centre, when I rang the training centre company they said no such centre existed.

Looking up on the internet other peoples experiences on the course confirmed my suspicions. The finance for the course was through BPF, whose past reputation I only discovered three days after signing the loan application. It has taken me a week to get the loan canceled (I hope as they will not confirm in writing, what sort of company refuses to do that? I even provided a stamped SAE). I sent back three days after signing all the course materials left with me back to the course address in a parcel with a letter canceling the course, saying I could not afford it.

The first two letters I sent 2-3 days after signing were sent by first class mail, which was a mistake, as upon phoning they denied receiving them and said it can take five days to get to mail. The impression they gave is that mail not sent by recorded was very low priority, they would not agree to cancel the loan by phone call and denied receiving any letters when I phoned six days after signing.

So now I drafted a letter saying that I had sent two letters canceling the loan as well as this third one, I told them I had consulted a solicitor (which I did) who agreed I had the right to cancel and had seen the letter I was sending. I included the name of the supervisor at BPF I had spoken to saying to her I was mis-sold the loan, that it is fraudulent, I would not be paying them a penny and was canceling the direct debit if it got set up, and that she had said I had ten days to cancel the loan in writing. I also included a SAE with stamp on and asked them to confirm in writing the loan has been canceled. I sent this letter by Royal Mail Special Delivery, guaranteed next day delivery. I then went to my bank and made sure that if the direct debit for the course and loan was set up it would be canceled immediately and no money paid. I also sent another letter to Metropolitan International Schools Limited by Special Delivery explaining that I had returned the all the course materials, had consulted a solicitor and was entitled to cancel, and want written confirmation that the course is canceled.

That was yesterday, today at 11am I confirmed on the website tracker that the Special Delivery letters had been delivered. I then phoned BPF who now at last confirmed the loan was now canceled. I also phoned the course provider today who would not confirm that they had canceled the course or received the parcel, the person on the phone basically did not give a monkeys. But he did say when the application was processed a form would be sent out with details of how to cancel. Yesterday I also put a stop on the credit card I paid the £100 deposit with and started a fraud claim on the £100 deposit.

Hopefully I will receive written confirmation that it has all been canceled soon and this nightmare will be over. I will never let a salesman set foot in my door again, or sign up for anything without cooling off for a few days to think about it and doing research on what I'm buying.

My advice to anyone else trying to cancel loan within the time limit is send letter marked IMPORTANT OPEN IMMEDIATELY by Special Delivery next day express signed for service, and multiple letters by first class/recorded and have a solicitor witness what you have done, be very detailed in your letter, and phone the lender every day, ask to speak to most senior supervisor, making it clear that you were mis-sold the loan, that it is fraudulent, you can not afford it and will not be able to make any repayments. Send letter to course provider canceling course by signed for next day delivery, with multiple letters canceling enrollment as follow ups, phone them every day telling them you have sent letters canceling the course by recorded/special delivery and you want written confirmation, consult a solicitor and have him witness what you have done. Also keep a record of phone calls, names of people you have spoken to, and letters sent and proof of postage, phone Consumer Direct for advice.

Update: Just phoned Consumer Direct on 08454 040506 about canceling enrollment and credit agreement I signed and he said that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 that they must send me a second letter and I have 5 days to cancel from then (best in writing, recorded delivery), and that I am entitled to a full refund of my deposit. He told me to include this information in my letter. If they try to enforce the course enrollment I can take them to court, or defend myself if they come after me by showing that I was within my legal rights to cancel and acted reasonably.

Found this also on their website:

The Cancellation of Contracts made in a Consumer's Home or Place of Work Regulations 2008

Under the Cancellation of Contracts made in a Consumer's Home or Place of Work etc. Regulations 2008, if you buy goods or services costing more than £35 as a result of a trader's visit to your home or place of work, the trader is required by law to provide you with a written copy of your cancellation rights explaining your rights to cancel the contract at the time the contract is made. This will then give you 7 days to cancel the contract starting the day the cancellation notice is received. Failure to do so may be a criminal offence and may make the agreement unenforceable. It does not matter whether the visit is one that you have requested yourself or whether it is unsolicited.

Google THE SKILLSTRAIN SCAM & HOW I GOT MY REFUND for an excellent video on scams by Jan Talensky, Metropolitan International School, and his companies run from Collingdon St, Luton.

Update 1:

Yesterday I phoned MIS ltd, who still denied receiving any correspondence saying they did not check applications until Thursday. When I phoned today they said they had received something from me but that they would not process my application until next week, and that it could not be canceled until then, they refused to send anything in writing to me confirming this. Obviously part of their tactics is fobbing people off then saying it is too late to cancel the course. I'm also in a union so have Legal Plus Service which gives free legal advice, I will contact them tomorrow.

Update 2:

Phoned Consumer Direct again, they said they would get Trading Standards to phone me.

Set up ID Aware membership with my bank:

• Regular text or email alerts
• Unlimited access to your credit report
• Quarterly credit statements
• Personal risk assessments on request
• A dedicated case worker if the worst happens.

Found a FAX phone number for Metropolitan International Schools Ltd. Tel: 01582 487539 - 80-88 Collingdon Street, Luton, Bedfordshire, LU1 1RX.

Name & Registered Office:
TRAIN 4 TRADE SKILLS LIMITED
41B MILTON ROAD
LUTON
BEDFORDSHIRE
LU1 5JB
Company No. 03457950

Update 3:

Filled out a complaint form from the Financial Ombudsman website and posted it off.

Printed out proof of delivery (signatures and time delivered) from Post Office Tracker website and attached to copies of recorded letters sent to MIS and BPF.

 

[Beachcomber]

It is sickening the way these scammers operate.
I remember my brush with them, and the enjoyment I had pulling their spiel to pieces bit by bit and watching the salesman squirm.

Scum, the lot of 'em.

 

[G. Lasagne]

If any of you lads are looking for heating experience (dont do bathrooms etc) and live in the north east then give me a bell, you can do the course at ngst it will cost about £2500 ish (might even be cheaper) and you can do your portfolio with my company, its harder and harder getting in to atrade nowadays, so if i can help give you a bit experience then i will.

 

[Tej]

That is a most generous offer.. pasta lover

Kudos to you

 

[G. Lasagne]

Hi mate, how you getting on with what we were chatting about the other day?

 

[Tej]

Getting there slowly...

 

[Woot]

If any of you lads are looking for heating experience (dont do bathrooms etc) and live in the north east then give me a bell, you can do the course at ngst it will cost about £2500 ish (might even be cheaper) and you can do your portfolio with my company, its harder and harder getting in to atrade nowadays, so if i can help give you a bit experience then i will.

Its great that you are helping people get in the trade, I live in the southwest unfortunately, but thanks for the advice, have now found some training centres closer to home. Next time I won't sign up to anything that ties me to a credit agreement and will look for people to work with for experience.

 

[G. Lasagne]

I dont know your financial or work situation but theres loads of grants avalable, give your local coucil/business link a ring they will let you know if your entitled.

 

[RBS]

Woot, I am ***** scammers.

 

[ARLucas]

As one with more than a passing interest, the distance learning industry is somewhat damaged by people attacking services that are legitimate whilst some clearly need to be called to task.
The problem I have with claims about plumbers needed and/or out of work comes when you see stories of employers crying out for people. The Women In Construction event was featured on a local TV channel and that shows a different side to things.
(Sensibe move by the mods, no URLs on early postsings) Please cut and paste the link into your browser: (www).local-news.tv

As far as postings here concerned, there's an amazing plot by one group to attack another. If it wasn't so damaging for those who are best described as amateur browsers, it would be comical. There are a number of smear campaigns ousted by the Smear Buster, Check out CitizenFreePress at Blogspot

Considering how I got into this subject, my Father felt he was dupped and he wasn't, I am shocked to see the lengths people will go to.

So as to avoid specific names used on this forum, it is funny how a promotion for a company which starts as an attack on another has an interesting twist. The two companies are as good as neighbours as well as being competitors - need to phone a friend to figure that one out? Next comes the clever companies who try to hide complaints be filling the front page of Google with all sorts of paid for advertisements. The web managers at HomeLearning are great at this. Count up the paid for ads on Google Page1, but would an amateur surfer know which entries are real and which ones are paid for ads?
Then ask yourself why a good review comes so quickly after a student writes a review that is less than perfect, you can see this at the Review Centre (page1 of Google for HomeLearningCollege).

One of these days I plan to publish my findings, its now become a mission.

ARL

 

[Beachcomber]

All I can go on are my own experiences dealing with a 'training centre'

Their promises fell to pieces upon examination, the raft of qualifications ther offered were their own internel certificates not recognised by employers / trade. Their 'job placement guarantee' turned out to be a 2 week placement labouring on a building site, their 'government backed initiative' turned out to be a total fabrication - from start to finish it was a very well polished and almost convincing sales pitch selling a product worth maybe 20% of the asking price.

The sooner further education is regulated the better.

 

[ELLIEREBECCA]

Yes I can tell you that I was once interviewed by a company "selling" Plumbing courses. They do offe courses, but at very inflated prices. Selling through scare tactics. Take your time, ask yourself if you ahve the money to set up a business after you complete the course and can you wait over a year to get any income once you do- as very few businesses make a profit in year one. So the cost of the course is nto your only outlay if you do choose to go down this route- although you may be abkle to get a job afterwards. But these course fees are very very HIGH, Go to college and get a more widely accepted qualifictaion would be what i would do. But good luck if you decide to go ahead. The company i intervirewed with was Train for Trade. Perhaps you were interviewed by a real college but the fees suggest you were not.

Sorry if this appears negative - I hope it owrks out well for you!
All the best

 

[milkteeth46]

I have been considering doing one of these courses for some time now and have been put off by the comments on this site and others. But I have a problem. Not one of the threads says anything about the content of the courses, no comments about the training centres and certainly no comments about the complainants (that’s probably you!) themselves. Oh and nobody has mentioned the qualifications you get at the end IF you finish.
I have both the brochures for Train4TradeSkills (T4TS’s) Electrical and Plumbing courses, the ones that are the full courses. They are both £35.00 per week or if you prefer £5770.00 in total, oh and unless you pay it all in one go you will be entering into a perfectly normal credit agreement that carries with it your Statutory Rights in accordance with the Consumer Credit Act of 1974. This act states your rights to cancel and what the service providers (in this case T4TS) responsibilities are. So that means if you don’t want to do it then cancel it within seven days. It’s your right to do that.
The training centres you can find at Apprenticeship Training Ltd, look them up on Google, my nearest is in Southampton so I went and had a look around completely unannounced. They were helpful and welcoming and on looking around I reckon they’ve got £50m quid spent here.
I’ve checked the Plumbing Course qualifications using the City & Guilds web site which when completed say after about two to three years or so allows you to go on and do the C&G 6089 NVQ Level 3 assessments, oh and when you click on this link you may find it interesting to note the first bit of text. Go out to your nearest busy main road, stop all the so called qualified Plumbers and ask them specifically what qualifications they have, you’ll be surprised, I was.
They also add Part P Defined Scope Electrical into the course so you can properly install say an Electric Shower or Waste Disposal unit that needs power without calling a Sparky in. So that’s everything I’m gonna need to be a QUALIFIED Plumber. All I gotta do now is get a job as a trainee or something and I’ll get the experience I need and all those old tricks from the guys that have been around a while.
The same all goes for the Electrical Course, that’s C&G 2391 and then on to C&G 2356 NVQ Level 3 assessments.
There are lots of other certifications you get on these courses. There are ten or more in the Plumbing course and 15 odd in the Electrical.
I’m currently a Printer and I know a bit about Printing as I’ve done it all my life. The Course guy gave me the Electrical brochure and this plumbing one, trust me when I say these cost some cash to print. If this is a scam then I’m Donald Trump and I must have some money hidden somewhere that I don’t know about.
I get lots of salesmen knocking on my door trying to sell me rubbish I don’t need but I must admit I am about to sign up to a Plumbing Course. I’ll keep you all updated once I get back from my hols.
PS; I think all the “it’s a scam” brigade are a bit daft. In the end they’ve paid £100.00 registration fee and I assume can all read. They’ve signed any paperwork (I’ll let you know about this next time, see what I have to sign). And I suppose if Barclays Bank and Hitachi Finance (who I had my new Sofa on finance with) are involved, it must be reputable.

 

[Beachcomber]

I have been considering doing one of these courses for some time now ............

Hoping to sell some courses more like? Maybe not, I'll give you the benifit of the doubt.

But I have a problem. Not one of the threads says anything about the content of the courses, no comments about the training centres and certainly no comments about the complainants (that’s probably you!) themselves. Oh and nobody has mentioned the qualifications you get at the end IF you finish.

Well, the training centre I viseted looked very nice and well equipped - I'd bloody hope so for the price they were charging!

Qualifications? Well, aside from the standard quals available from your local college for much less, all of their other cert's turned out to be their own in-house qualifications which sounded very flash but were not industry recognised thus worthless.

......oh and unless you pay it all in one go you will be entering into a perfectly normal credit agreement that carries with it your Statutory Rights in accordance with the Consumer Credit Act of 1974. This act states your rights to cancel and what the service providers (in this case T4TS) responsibilities are. So that means if you don’t want to do it then cancel it within seven days. It’s your right to do that.

Problem is, it will take 5 or 6 weeks to find out the course is a load of old pony and your precious 7 days has long gone.

They were helpful and welcoming and on looking around I reckon they’ve got £50m quid spent here.

Salespeople are often nice, friendly even.

Go out to your nearest busy main road, stop all the so called qualified Plumbers and ask them specifically what qualifications they have, you’ll be surprised, I was.

Most are Polish?

All I gotta do now is get a job as a trainee or something and I’ll get the experience I need.......

Oh the centre I viseted offered a 'guaranteed work placement' which turned out to be most likely a 2 week unpaid site job.

There are ten or more in the Plumbing course and 15 odd in the Electrical.

See previous comment Re. qualifications.

I’m currently a Printer and I know a bit about Printing as I’ve done it all my life. The Course guy gave me the Electrical brochure and this plumbing one, trust me when I say these cost some cash to print. If this is a scam then I’m Donald Trump

................OR, their business is a big earner. Just because someone has lots of money to spend on flyers and brochures does not instantly legitamise them.

I get lots of salesmen knocking on my door trying to sell me rubbish I don’t need but I must admit I am about to sign up to a Plumbing Course. I’ll keep you all updated once I get back from my hols.

Look forward to it (breath NOT held)

PS; I think all the “it’s a scam” brigade are a bit daft. In the end they’ve paid £100.00 registration fee and I assume can all read. They’ve signed any paperwork (I’ll let you know about this next time, see what I have to sign). And I suppose if Barclays Bank and Hitachi Finance (who I had my new Sofa on finance with) are involved, it must be reputable.

Thats right - you'd never get a bank involved in anything dodgy!

The 'It's a scam' brigade also include a large percentage of people who have seriously considered these courses, have looked into the detail and have found that their promises are far from the full story. They offer nothing that cannot be found through local adult education and anyone who truly believes they can become a fully qualified plumber in a matter on months is a pillock.

So, which course-monger are you working for?

 

[digdeep]

This was a sales pitch if ever I saw one. I asked for some information on electrical courses and got a guy turn up on my doorstep a couple of days later saying that he was a college careers advisor and could get me on to the right courses at £100 / month with a guaranteed electrical installer job at the end of it. He sat down with me for a good 2 hours talking about being unemployed and how I felt about it and saying everything else I was doing to get back into work was useless! He reckoned he was a gas installer, plumber and electrician ! It was obvious that this guy was a saleman and he been taught the tricks of his trade in a classroom! At the end of it all he wanted was for me to sign up. I said I wanted to do my research and think about it. He said that I needed to decide as soon as possible! He left no credentials of who he was, who he worked for , what qualifications he had etc! After he left I did some research on Train for Trade Skills - seems they are linked to Skillstrain and a loan company - CDF finance. Search on those and you'll find some horror stories. Avoid like the plague!!!!!!!!!

 

[zigojacko]

Skills Train... Why am I not surprised, they have tried to rip me off twice before, loads of these companies that will try and fleece people for as much money as they can.

I'm an ex plumbing & heating engineer from the SouthWest, I was self employed as my Dad owned a plumbing & heating firm, I learnt more on the job 6 days a week but did the courses at Exeter College.

 

[G. Lasagne]

Skills Train... Why am I not surprised, they have tried to rip me off twice before, loads of these companies that will try and fleece people for as much money as they can.

I'm an ex plumbing & heating engineer from the SouthWest, I was self employed as my Dad owned a plumbing & heating firm, I learnt more on the job 6 days a week but did the courses at Exeter College.

At last a web designer who knows about trades

 

[zigojacko]

At last a web designer who knows about trades

Yep, you won't find many people like me, most people are normally either in physical/manual work or office/computer work but rarely will you find someone that has been trades at completely different end of the spectrum.

I have also build a complex of properties with my Dad as well and have a knowledge of electronics (although not qualified) so have a pretty good understanding of many of the trades. My specialty when I was in the trade was boiler electronics.

P.S: I'm not a web designer

 

[G. Lasagne]

Yep, you won't find many people like me, most people are normally either in physical/manual work or office/computer work but rarely will you find someone that has been trades at completely different end of the spectrum.

I have also build a complex of properties with my Dad as well and have a knowledge of electronics (although not qualified) so have a pretty good understanding of many of the trades. My specialty when I was in the trade was boiler electronics.

P.S: I'm not a web designer

Good man, well a seo guy who knows trades then, boiler electronics is something i i could do with improving on TBH, the lad who works for me is a whizz on them as well

 

[PP&CHltd]

First of all, not wishing to p**s on anyones camp fire regarding plumbing qualifications, but at the end of the day - proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Happy Shopper plumbing courses will get you a Happy Shopper certificate, this may get you a job with a Happy Shopper company, who have Happy Shopper customers - who like to pay Happy Shopper prices, this will mean that you can expect to be paid Happy Shopper wages, no prizes for guessing where you may be able to go shopping....

Call me old fashioned, but give me an apprentice who has made tea, swept up, fetched this, fetched that, hung countless radiators till they are begging to try something else, then moved on to the next minor task, till they are fed up to the teeth with it..bla bla bla.

Then even if he/she had no qualifications whatsoever, i would take ten of those over one Happy Shopper certificated plumber.

And as for expecting to earn 40 - 60 - 80 - grand a year...

There are some good neat, tidy & quick plumbers out there that you are going to have to compete with, and i would stake my nads on it - not one started with a ......you guessed it, Happy Shopper plumbing course.

 

[G. Lasagne]

First of all, not wishing to p**s on anyones camp fire regarding plumbing qualifications, but at the end of the day - proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Happy Shopper plumbing courses will get you a Happy Shopper certificate, this may get you a job with a Happy Shopper company, who have Happy Shopper customers - who like to pay Happy Shopper prices, this will mean that you can expect to be paid Happy Shopper wages, no prizes for guessing where you may be able to go shopping....

Call me old fashioned, but give me an apprentice who has made tea, swept up, fetched this, fetched that, hung countless radiators till they are begging to try something else, then moved on to the next minor task, till they are fed up to the teeth with it..bla bla bla.

Then even if he/she had no qualifications whatsoever, i would take ten of those over one Happy Shopper certificated plumber.

And as for expecting to earn 40 - 60 - 80 - grand a year...

There are some good neat, tidy & quick plumbers out there that you are going to have to compete with, and i would stake my nads on it - not one started with a ......you guessed it, Happy Shopper plumbing course.

I agree to a certain extent, but i also think your being a bit narrow minded to think that to be clean and tidy you have to have completed a 5 year apprenticeship, i took on a 3 year time served apprentice last year full time and he was ok but not brilliant, then i took my brother in law on as he was doing a short "happy shopper" course after he finished i took him on full time and he is fanatstic, clean tidy fantastic workmanship, great with the customers and great at fault finding as he used to have a job in electronics.

How good somebody is all depends on the individual, i have worked with guys who have been doing it 30 years and are still useless and slow, experience does not always equal a good employee, its all about the attitude of the individual, if your thick then you will probably need 5 years to grasp the basics, if however your quite "switched on" then you will pick things up a lot lot quicker

p.s he has the same qualifications EXACTLY as i have, so happy shopper course does not equal happy shopper quals.

 

[PP&CHltd]

I agree to a certain extent, but i also think your being a bit narrow minded to think that to be clean and tidy you have to have completed a 5 year apprenticeship, i took on a 3 year time served apprentice last year full time and he was ok but not brilliant, then i took my brother in law on as he was doing a short "happy shopper" course after he finished i took him on full time and he is fanatstic, clean tidy fantastic workmanship, great with the customers and great at fault finding as he used to have a job in electronics.

How good somebody is all depends on the individual, i have worked with guys who have been doing it 30 years and are still useless and slow, experience does not always equal a good employee, its all about the attitude of the individual, if your thick then you will probably need 5 years to grasp the basics, if however your quite "switched on" then you will pick things up a lot lot quicker

p.s he has the same qualifications EXACTLY as i have, so happy shopper course does not equal happy shopper quals.

Well, we will have to agree to diagree on this subject then, cause someone fresh out of a college course will lack experience, they can have paperwork coming out of their ears for all i care, like i said in my previous post, and i still stand by what i said, but then i must be old fashioned and one of those 30 year experience bods that you mentioned, but i have plenty of work on, especially when the combi lads get stuck on heating design....

PS, sorry to hear of your of your burden, but we all have our crosses to bear...

...let them try getting work in a stately home, (listed buildings) or a prestigious project in canary wharf, waving their freshly gained paperwork, and see how they get on.

 

[G. Lasagne]

PS, sorry to hear of your of your burden, but we all have our crosses to bear...
[/quote]


Dont get this but anyway, i think we will have to disagree, i know a guy called gerry who done a apprentice, worked for britsh gas, has 20 years experience etc etc, his nickname is gerriatric (if thats how you spell it), and i have my employee Rob who has been doing it 18 months, we have worked in huge houses, and on big projects and had nothing but testimonials, hes a clever lad, with an excellent technical mind and has a great sense of pride in his work, another reason why i wouldnt swap him for a 30 years + experienced lad is that a lot of them tend to think everyone should bow at there feet just because theyve been doing it for a long time and have a kind of " Dont tell me what to do ive been doing this 30 years" type of attitude, which nobody has at my company.

Experience is only useful if youve managed to learn something in that 30 years, but like some people i know, you could tell them a million times and they still wouldnt get it.

Now obviously experience is not a negative thing its a huge positive thing but only if the individual has other skills, such as pride, customer serivce, attitude etc.

Dont rule people out just because there not "old school" you could be losing a fantastic employee, be open-minded.