Phone tapping ...a Wapping scandal.

The investigation by the MMC will take years - they hope everyone will have forgotten how p1ssed off we are with them and they will put the sale of Sky News back into the deal when the MMC makes its recommendations.

Nice.....

You do mean a very few people are p1ssed off with them.?

The majority don't give a toss.

Earl

 

[captaincloser]

The majority don't give a toss.

Earl

The majority at Earl Towers may not give a toss but actually this is a huge story which will resonate through every walk of life and will be bigger than the Mp's expenses scandal etc etc. The interest in UK and US business circles is massive.

A great lesson for all in business, large and small that megalomania/cheating and fraud can hit the buffers and that there can be consequences for the likes of Murdoch and the Maxwells of this world.

 

The majority at Earl Towers may not give a toss but actually this is a huge story which will resonate through every walk of life and will be bigger than the Mp's expenses scandal etc etc. The interest in UK and US business circles is massive.

As I said the majority do not give a toss.

Earl

 

[cjd]

The majority don't give a toss.

Earl

You're probably right, so we get the press and the governance we deserve.

 

[captaincloser]

As I said the majority do not give a toss.

Earl

Pick up a newspaper or switch on the news. This has taken the Middle East and everything else off the headlines

Just writing that the 'majority do not give a toss' does not make you correct.

 

Pick up a newspaper or switch on the news. This has taken the Middle East and everything else off the headlines

Just writing that the 'majority do not give a toss' does not make you correct.

Well I am betting the average NOTW reader is far more interested in the salacious goings on in various celebrity sexual encounters that they are in a bit of phone hacking.

I would also bet they would be most interested in what was discovered in the hacking of celebs ,and would buy the NOTW in droves to read it.

Do you really think your average citizen is interested in what the meglomaniacs who run big business are up to.?

Earl

 

[captaincloser]

Don't frighten us with the 'average citizen'. You are right about the level when looking at the average..but don't you see the drama here...won't that attract some formerN.O.W readers...or do we need a footballer involved ? I am afraid you may be right if looking at the average or below average. Thats all a bit glass half empty etc..

Would you say the 'average' UKBF reader wouldn't give a toss ? You could be right of course...how depressing though.

 

[cjd]

We very badly need a healthy press, it's the fourth estate. It keeps the other three honest. We need to care about it just as we need to care about having an honest police force, and honest parliament and an honest judiciary. (yes I know that technically, I've removed a couple of estates and substituted a couple in their place - times change)

We know they're all bent but they keep each other reasonably straight when measured over a distance.

Author Oscar Wilde wrote:
In old days men had the rack. Now they have the press. That is an improvement certainly. But still it is very bad, and wrong, and demoralising.

Somebody — was it Burke? — called journalism the fourth estate. That was true at the time no doubt. But at the present moment it is the only estate. It has eaten up the other three. The Lords Temporal say nothing, the Lords Spiritual have nothing to say, and the House of Commons has nothing to say and says it. We are dominated by Journalism.

 

Don't frighten us with the 'average citizen'. You are right about the level when looking at the average..but don't you see the drama here...won't that attract some formerN.O.W readers...or do we need a footballer involved ? I am afraid you may be right if looking at the average or below average. Thats all a bit glass half empty etc..

Would you say the 'average' UKBF reader wouldn't give a toss ? You could be right of course...how depressing though.

Why should they.?

Unless something effects them .

I doubt if the royal ginger sprogs phone messages will have much impact on my life.

A lot of righteous indignation flying about but not much else.

I don't think it is depressing at all,now the 18% rise in fuel prices is a tad.

Earl

 

[webbiz]

Pick up a newspaper or switch on the news. This has taken the Middle East and everything else off the headlines

Just writing that the 'majority do not give a toss' does not make you correct.

Frankly I get tired of the Middle East and all its problems.

Nice to have a break and have some of our own home grown news for a change.

At least for a short time.

 

[MASSEY]

You do mean a very few people are p1ssed off with them.?

The majority don't give a toss.

Earl

You think it's acceptable to hack the phone of a dead girls family and end up perverting the course of justice.

Well Earl that says a lot about you mr...

 

You think it's acceptable to hack the phone of a dead girls family and end up perverting the course of justice.

Now where did I say that.?

I just consider this type of crime to be rather low on my priority list.

I.E dropping a cruise missile on a bunch of civilians would probably get more of my attention or 12 million people possibly starving to death in the horn of africa.:|

Earl

 

[captaincloser]

I just consider this type of crime to be rather low on my priority list.

I.E dropping a cruise missile on a bunch of civilians would probably get more of my attention or 12 million people possibly starving to death in the horn of africa.:|

Earl

This is a business forum and the obvious interest is in this is as a business story. Posts on here are not all going to be about you and your intersts.

Why are so many on here so completely lacking in perspective of a wider world beyond their own footprint ?

 

[MASSEY]

I.E dropping a cruise missile on a bunch of civilians would probably get more of my attention or 12 million people possibly starving to death in the horn of africa.:|

Well the civilians just get in the way don't they

When you look at the bigger picture bombing these countries has more posotives than drawbacks.

Look at what they got upto in sri lanka where the Un did not get involved. That regime slaughtered hundreds of thousands of their own kind.

They would of loved to have been bombed like Libya, infact they were all pretty much praying for help.

 

Why are so many on here so completely lacking in perspective of a wider world beyond their own footprint ?

Its the human condition.

Have you not noticed.

Earl

 

[captaincloser]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...-footage-of-themselves-sleeping-201107134066/

 

[thebigIAM]

Earl might have a point. It's on the news because it's relevant to every journalist and former journalist in the country. Quite what people with no experience or personal stake in that industry make of it, I have no idea, but I haven't heard anyone discussing it at the school gates.

They don't discuss Africa either. Being made redundant or problems with private landlords seems to crop up most, I'd say. (Or childbirth dramas!)

Me: I'm absolutely GRIPPED by the whole News of the World thing. I still say the decision to close the paper was catastrophic and just drew more attention to the problem.

The awful thing about Milly is that they deleted messages to make way for new ones to be left, which amounts to theft of her phone messages, and a bit too much like bodyrobbing, really.

 

[captaincloser]

So the appalling Rebekah Wade resigns. Les Hinton also resigns..These are huge resignations...the FBI are investigating Newscorp and now the whole nasty affair is about to get even worse for Murdoch. Newscorp is about to tumble completely...Fox news in USA, owned by Murdoch, are as yet failing to acknowledge anything let alone that the whole game is up.

 

[Palms]

Actually, crimes of privacy invasion at this level can serious damage the security of our country which could lead to bombs being dropped so I for one, am in the masses that are interested in this scandal.

This is history in the making, the british press has the worse reputation in the world and it is about time on a moral and ethical level that they get their punishment.

I will not enter into silly arguments about this incidentally. The suggestion that you are more intelligent if you ignore this story is ludicrous and paradoxically has the opposite affect.

Anyhoo.... off to watch the apprentice to see what i can learn from them (rofl).

 

Actually, crimes of privacy invasion at this level can serious damage the security of our country which could lead to bombs being dropped so I for one, am in the masses that are interested in this scandal.

This is history in the making, the british press has the worse reputation in the world and it is about time on a moral and ethical level that they get their punishment.

.

quite true.

So who are we going to bomb next.?:|

Evidence for the British press being the worlds worst.?


And if so how do you suggest they are punished.?

Earl

 

[MASSEY]

Yeah because some one will really drop a bomb on a country with nuclear warheads

 

[Palms]

quite true.

So who are we going to bomb next.?:|

Evidence for the British press being the worlds worst.?


And if so how do you suggest they are punished.?

Earl

I am under no obligation to provide you with "evidence", as far as i was aware I am not in a court of law

I dont play games sweetheart, I give my opinion. I am a grown up.

First question - irelevant to the discussion imo.

Not up for me to decide on punishment.

And for the other sarcastic comment I was merely referring to a breach of security affecting this country but if you want to play silly games also, play them with someone else.

 

[captaincloser]

The 'street of shame' (Fleet street/now Wapping) has been a ticking bomb for as long as I can remember and the publishers were all confident if not cocky that they were beyond the law (whilst also being in bed with the law in many cases). Nobody imagined any political party would snap at them and it took a sensation to bring the cosying up to a (temporary) end.

The exposure of criminality is not going to be confined to hacking voicemail. Once former NOW editors and 'journalists' (spivs) are on the rack then it is anyone's guess how much mud will come pouring out.The genie has escaped the lamp after far too long.The only limitation will be how far back the enquiries go...wrongdoing has been rife for as long as anyone living will be able to remember. This was nothing new.There was serious criminality in some shady news gathering long before mobile phones. Its not all papers and not all journalists of course.

The next big paper to get dragged in could easily be the Sunday Times with its ragged history of scoops and dodgy journalists. The Sun ,of course, is the News of the World during the week so that's going to crash and burn in this fiasco and nobody would bet on the Mail and Mirror surviving this purge without some prosecution of wrongdoing.

The general apathy and surprise in the UK at this story is a reflection of the country we live in-few do actually care about a bigger picture beyond their patch on this island.

Also the lack of the real headlines for the stories (outside of the Guardian/Observer/Independant I guess) is obvious-the papers themslves are the gory story !

 

[directmarketingadvice]

Just writing that the 'majority do not give a toss' does not make you correct.

And just writing "this is a huge story which will resonate through every walk of life" doesn't make you right either.

Maybe I'm being short-sighted, but I don't really get how this is going to have a big impact.

It'll probably reduce Murdoch's ability to influence the views of a nation... and his influence over politicians.

But people will still be influenced and politicians will always be down on their knees in front of people with power.

It may help clean up the police a bit. And that would be a good thing, too. But journos will still try to get the inside scoop from the cops one way or another.

I really don't see how it'll "resonate" through my life... except I'll no longer be able to log onto the NOTW site on a Sunday to read who's been up to some shagging.

Steve

 

[movietub]

I don't see this as any bigger than the expenses scandal, just to name the most recent prior to this.

I imagine several other news groups will eventually be uncovered for doing the same and some sort of reform - in the same way as the expenses scandal - will take place.

It's not exactly that big a story though - I'm sure in their 160 odd year history NOTW have done, and probably been uncovered for doing worse and now no one can remember!

Speaking personally, the Icelandic Volcano grounding all the planes affected and shocked me more!

 

[movietub]

I couldn't agree more with your first paragraph.

I had generally given this whole story little attention all the time we were talking about "celebrities" having their phones tapped, but the news that Milly Dowler's phone was given the same treatment now makes this an entirely different kettle of fish.

It's frankly disgusting and I sincerely hope those responsible get everything they deserve. I also believe this is only the tip of the iceberg and a lot of people are going to find themselves in a whole lot of trouble - and deservedly so.

Is it clear yet exactly which way round the tapping took place?

As I understand it the police tapped the lines for their own purposes - and then journalists either approached the police and offered to buy some of the info or the police approached them.

If that's the case it seems much more likely the police approached the journalists, as the journalists would not have known what recordings existed, which copper had the accurate info, and crucially whether they would get nicked just for asking. Even if they chatted with the coppers in the pub they would not know who was working on what until they were told.

I think this is quite important when judging how bad the press have been. If a journalist suggested tapping a distressed persons phone then that's completely unforgivable. However if a copper offers to sell a journalist some front-page material, I imagine the journalists choice is as much about professional habit than lack of conscience. Still wrong, but there is a massive difference between benefiting from a appalling turn of events as opposed to actually causing the events to happen.

 

[cjd]

Nah - no one 'tapped' phones - they just called into their voicemail and spoofed the password. And it wasn't the police that did it, it was hired PIs.

The police were being paid for info on who was doing what to who and complaining to them about it and info on ongoing investigations into big stories.

 

[movietub]

Nah - no one 'tapped' phones - they just called into their voicemail and spoofed the password. And it wasn't the police that did it, it was hired PIs.

The police were being paid for info on who was doing what to who and complaining to them about it and info on ongoing investigations into big stories.

So none of this revolves round the police tapping lines and passing on to journalists? Or the police paying PI's to achieve the same?

So it is all (or near enough) journalist driven?

Sorry to ask such basic questions - sometimes easier on here than wading through reams of BS in the press!

 

[cjd]

So none of this revolves round the police tapping lines and passing on to journalists? Or the police paying PI's to achieve the same?

No-one is claiming that the police tapped phones. If that was the case, there'd be a sh1t storm so big that Thames Water couldn't dump it. (A phone tap from the police requires a signature from the Home Secretary)

So it is all (or near enough) journalist driven?

Yup. They used private investigators to find the mobile phone numbers then hack into their voicemails.

 

[movietub]

No-one is claiming that the police tapped phones. If that was the case, there'd be a sh1t storm so big that Thames Water couldn't dump it. (A phone tap from the police requires a signature from the Home Secretary)



Yup. They used private investigators to find the mobile phone numbers then hack into their voicemails.

Thanks - so basically this is even less shocking than I thought. Journalists put the story ahead of those the story affects. How odd...

 

[cjd]

At this stage it's hard to say whether this will lead to a better press and police or worse. The main problem is that the newspaper business is loss making and in decline, Murdock only keeps them up for the political influence it brings him. Now that influence is gone - forever, I reckon - he may well cut and run.

But we need a very strong and independent press to keep politicians honest - as we've seen, so it's a risk.......

 

[movietub]

At this stage it's hard to say whether this will lead to a better press and police or worse. The main problem is that the newspaper business is loss making and in decline, Murdock only keeps them up for the political influence it brings him. Now that influence is gone - forever, I reckon - he may well cut and run.

But we need a very strong and independent press to keep politicians honest - as we've seen, so it's a risk.......

I agree that Murdoch will probably allow the empire to decline now. It is a massive PR battle to fight for something that increasingly doesn't make money any more.

Regards having a strong and independent press. Yes we do need one, but not in the traditional sense. TV/Radio news is still incredibly popular so the coverage isn't going anywhere. Do we need newspapers themselves? Probably not so much. The journalists will continue to break stories and monetise them through other channels somehow. Even a free news website makes money from advertising and can therefore attach value to a very big exclusive. Not as much money, not a big of an industry in the future maybe - but how many journalists do you actually need to cover the stuff that actually matters? If you cut out all the stuff about affairs, celebrities and 'Scandal' that is actually just another blokes private life, then you can probably wave goodbye to 90% of journalists (using the term broadly of course).

 

[easiprint]

Do we need newspapers themselves?

Of course we do, how else can we all collect the £9.50 holiday vouchers from The Sun?

 

[movietub]

Of course we do, how else can we all collect the £9.50 holiday vouchers from The Sun?

HA!

My poor little sister went on one of those deals and was less than impressed. I think she would have paid a lot more than £9.50 to be back at home by the end of the first day!

Some things we will just have to learn to live without

 

[captaincloser]

I agree that Murdoch will probably allow the empire to decline now.

Whilst I agree with the rest of your post I would suggest that the decline (actually the demise) of Murdochs empire is now (rightly) out of his control. The US regulators will shut Newscorp down if there is any proof of money being paid in brown envelopes to the cops or anyone else in the UK.

Newscorp are the holding company for all Murdoch's UK publishing interests and US based and Murdoch, like most press barons before him, has enemies and there is an even bigger baying public in the US than here.

 

[bdw]

Maybe I'm being short-sighted, but I don't really get how this is going to have a big impact.

Yes, you probably are very short sighted if you cannot see that it already has (and is) having a big impact.


.

 

[movietub]

Whilst I agree with the rest of your post I would suggest that the decline (actually the demise) of Murdochs empire is now (rightly) out of his control. The US regulators will shut Newscorp down if there is any proof of money being paid in brown envelopes to the cops or anyone else in the UK.

Newscorp are the holding company for all Murdoch's UK publishing interests and US based and Murdoch, like most press barons beofre him, has enemies and there is an even bigger baying public in the US than here.

Well yes, it is already in motion. But it strikes me that he is the sort of bloke who probably would have the determination over a long period to build back up and reign again if there were sufficient motivation. Or rather his son would, and in many ways handing over all control too the son and billing it as a 'fresh start' would probably work in the long term.

But I really think it's just a case of Murdoch facing the obvious uphill battle to get something that is decreasing in value. He would have swapped James into the power seat by now if he wanted to see the empire have the best chance of being saved - imo that is.

 

[captaincloser]

And just writing "this is a huge story which will resonate through every walk of life" doesn't make you right either.

Maybe I'm being short-sighted, but I don't really get how this is going to have a big impact.

Steve

Steve, You could be right. My point about resonating through every walk of life is about the betrayal of readers that come from every walk of life. I personally believe many people will be reflecting on their reading habits and even their political affiliations or maybe they won't ? I just have an opinion. The 'big impact' I guess is the betrayal and the fact that Murdoch and his teams have cynically taken us all for mugs for a lifetime.

This may of course not be news or significant to some. It just seems that way to me. I am a huge consumer of news and thats why I feel so strongly that this exposure is long overdue.I can fully understand why some would think its a nothing story too, I have friends who think this way.

 

[movietub]

Yes, you probably are very short sighted if you cannot see that it already has (and is) having a big impact.


.

Apart from the shock of something so selfish and thoughtless to make a few £££

What exactly do you believe the impact will be? There will be some new regulation/legislation in place to make it easier for people that suspect their phones have been hacked to raise an investigation - that's about it.

Obviously at least one newspaper has gone as a result, but then the industry was in decline anyway.

It's a big deal for sure. I just don't think it will have a big impact in the grand scale of things. Again, just like the expenses scandal. Sure it's shocking and we can be glad it's been more or less stopped now. But what was the scandal exactly? £1m a year going astray that is now stopped? Hardly any long term impact to speak of.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

Yes, you probably are very short sighted if you cannot see that it already has (and is) having a big impact.


.

And what impact is that? And who is it impacting?

Yes, this is a world changing event... for those that work for News International, and for those caught breaking the law. But for everyone else?

Steve