your biggest frustration when it comes to marketing...

[boylovell]

Hey everyone, i'm just putting together a new tips video for my blog and wanted to ask you what your biggest frustration is it when it comes to marketing your business and getting more clients? Maybe it's not getting a response to your flyers, not enough time - etc, would be really good to get an insight.

Thanks

 

[Alicatt]

My biggest frustration is accurate measurement of marketing results.

For example: we have a "how did you hear about us" box for purchasers on our website.

Last year we ran a promotion in a wedding magazine. 100% of those who used the promotion code said they had heard about us from a different magazine.

So even if you do the right thing and measure, the results are not always reliable!

 

As a marketer and ex Product Manager- marketing being used tod escribe things that are not marketing.

 

[Justin_B]

As a marketer and ex Product Manager- marketing being used tod escribe things that are not marketing.

go on... give us an example

 

How long have you got?

 

[Justin_B]

all afternoon

 

Well why don't you define marketing and then I will tell you where your are wrong. If indeed you are wrong.

 

[Justin_B]

It was you that said that the term marketing is used to describe things that are not marketing. I just wanted to know what you meant. I wasn't after an argument, just an example!

 

[Justin_B]

Oh go on then...
Marketing is the process of working out what your customers want, how and when they want it, and how to deliver what they want without going bust in the process

 

[Justin_B]

In my experience the two things that most commonly get confused with marketing are sales and advertising

 

As for your definition its not incorrect. However it fails to acknowledge competitors.

The CIM definition is quite close, although without wanting to be arrogant its not quite there.

Marketing is the management process that identifies, anticipates and satisfies customer requirements profitably.

The Chartered Institute of Marketing (CIM).

 

The confusion between these two definitions really sued to irritate me.

A Product Manager oversees the development of a product from concept development, through system demonstration, and into production. The Product Manager is responsible for the COST of the overall program to bring the item to market, the SCHEDULE of the development process, and the PERFORMANCE of the item once it is into production."

This is the way most people think of product management, and it's a little off. In reality this is what a PROJECT manager is responsible for. A project manager is responsible for getting the product completed on time, on budget and on schedule.

In simple terms a PRODUCT manager is responsible for the overall success of a product from its birth to its burial; the product lifecycle. Product managers maximize a products return on investment by evaluating the product vs. its place in the market and where the product is in it's lifecycle. Maybe the product needs to an update to extend its lifecycle or maybe the product has matured enough to become a commodity in the market so it's price may need to be rethought. Product Managers are the key to getting the most bang out of you products.

 

[Justin_B]

As for your definition its not incorrect. However it fails to acknowledge competitors.

The CIM definition is quite close, although without wanting to be arrogant its not quite there.

Marketing is the management process that identifies, anticipates and satisfies customer requirements profitably.

The Chartered Institute of Marketing (CIM).

In this definition I would say that acknowledgement of competitors is covered under ‘anticipates’

 

[Justin_B]

The CIM are trying to be concise, their definition doesn't mention the economy or political situation either, I would say these are also covered by 'anticipates'

 

True. I have seen a better definition from my student days many moons ago, I'm trying to remember who wrote it.

 

Anticipates covering competitors- Not quite what I was eluding to I don't think. Would you care to expand?

 

[longleaf1]

Chillout guys!!

Back to the OP's question...
For me its getting past the receptionist whether that be a phonecall or a letter that ends up in the bin, it is very frustrating when you know if you could just get to the person you need to, you can close the deal!

 

We are chilled its called an intelligent discussion. But as is common with online you don't have the benefit of tone of voice.

 

[Clinton]

Marketing is the management process that identifies, anticipates and satisfies customer requirements profitably.

The Charted Institute of Marketing is hardly an unbiased third party. What a marketer would like you to think he does is not necessarily what he does or what the rest of the world understands his job to be.

The Wikipedia definition makes a lot more sense to me and seems more in tune with what everyone who is not in marketing - from the man on the street to business professionals - understands by the term: Marketing is the process by which companies create customer interest in goods or services.

Yes, it may have some input into packaging and distribution etc., but the primary function is advertising and sales. Sorry, Justin.

To answer the OP, my biggest frustration with marketing is that it doesn't know its place. It's simply one (dispensable for some) business function and not the organisation's raison de etre.

 

How can I put this NO NO AND NO.

The world understands marketing to be advertising as that is teh part they see , they do not see teh part which goe son behind the scenes.

You can not create artifical interets in a product you build upon and reinforce what peopel alraedy think, that is the point of targeting.

For example there would be no point knocking on my door and trying to build intrets in a bright pink ford fiesta.

Marketing is a strategic discipline which looks at product, price , promotion,place -to su ethe most basic model.

what you are confusing with marketing is what is ofetn called marketing communications.

If you learn nothing else learn one thing YOU CAN NOT ARTIFICIALLY CREATE INTEREST IN SOMETHING

I suggets your purchase a book on Consumer behaviour.

I was a Product Manager for a global organistion, I was middle maangemnt with marketing. Most of my time was spent looking at the bottom line and strategic issues which included managing suppliers, the shop floor, looking for new opportunities, analysis sales figures, looking after the product lifecyle.

In terms of advertsising I told the marcomms manager this is what we think the customer wants , are product meets tehir need because of XYZ now go and get the agency to do us a brochure and i will tell you whether it is any good.

How did I know what customers wanted beacuse I talke dto thema nd observed them and then analysed competitors to ensure our offeringw as better and more customer centric than theirs was . This is what I got paid a salary for.

Never once did we try to create intrets in something, we would identify a customer need then go back to our development department and say this is what we wnat to do do we have the technology to do it. products were then tested. Often products were bespoke and launche dto just one customer.

As for the validity of CIM and their qualifications -taht is anotehr story-howvere their definition is one of the more accurate definitions.

To the ignornat clowen who claims to know what marketing apparently raelly is, pleas ewrite me a strategic plan for ane wproduct launch of your choice. Most marks will be awarded for your competitor anlysis which you will use as the basis of your competitive analysis. also where appropriate look at gap analysis.

I will be delighted to mark it for you.

 

Furthermore since when was wikipedia known for its accuracy about anything.
ffs

 

Moreover the most succesfull companies have second to non marketing. Tht will include specific fucntions such as customer insight manager, possibley category and product managers (dependent on structure and sector), pricing managers, data analysts.

I really am amuse dyou mention CIM, soemthing tells me you might struggle withe ven there intoductory certificat enevr mine the professional diploma or postgraduate professiona l diploma-or whatever they call it since the new syllabus.

Plus you are clearly a clown as yous ay businesses can get away with no marketing. even if marketingw a sonly what you claim, tehn without it how would you get custoemsr if marketing is as you sggets just sales and advretising -without sales how does acompany survive.

Why am I even bothering you are clearly of rather low wit. If you are going toc hallenge an entire profession you might next time like to work on a more solid paradigm.

 

And firther mroe if you quoted teh fulld efinition on wikipedia and understood it the whilst id doe snot go into the detail it eludes to the same thing I ahve told you and what Justin as told you.

Marketing is the process by which companies create customer interest in goods or services. It generates the strategy that underlies sales techniques, business communication, and business developments.[1] It is an integrated process through which companies build strong customer relationships and create value for their customers and for themselves.[1]
Marketing is used to identify the customer, to satisfy the customer, and to keep the customer. With the customer as the focus of its activities, it can be concluded that marketing management is one of the major components of business management. Marketing evolved to meet the stasis in developing new markets caused by mature markets andovercapacities in the last 2-3 centuries.[citation needed] The adoption of marketing strategies requires businesses to shift their focus from production to the perceived needs and wants of their customers as the means of staying profitable.[citation needed]
The term marketing concept holds that achieving organizational goals depends on knowing the needs and wants of target markets and delivering the desired satisfactions.[2] It proposes that in order to satisfy its organizational objectives, an organization should anticipate the needs and wants of consumers and satisfy these more effectively than competitors.[2]


Just out of interest how many brain cells do you ahve ? 1or 2

 

Oh yes by the wya your second assignment is to pick an emergent product of your choice and tell me which would be a mor esuitable pricing strategy skim or penetration and why?

 

[FONT='Helvetica Neue',Arial,Helvetica,'Lucida Grande',Verdana,sans-serif]Marketing is not only much broader than selling, it is not a specialized activity at all It encompasses the entire business. It is the whole business seen from the point of view of the final result, that is, from the customer's point of view. Concern and responsibility for marketing must therefore permeate all areas of the enterprise.

Drucker.



​

[/FONT]

 

[Richard tj]

I'm a little confused here... are you saying that advertising and marketing shouldn't be confused??? Isn't there some form of overlap there? Where exactly does branding come into this equation? Sorry, not trying to be crass or flame you here. Agreed that marketing and advertising are 2 seperate entities, however, marketers need to have a say in advertising- in effect by providing direction to the advertisers.

On that basis, I'd say my biggest issue is the development of a marketing strategy to identify what a client is looking for whilst at the same time ensuring that the client's input doesn't take the whole program off the rails.

Going back to your earlier point about finding out what a client wants: A strategy I've been using for a while is implementing a Google adsense campaign and using feedback from that and google's webmaster tools to see exactly what the customers are looking for. However, I'd agree with the going bust part- this is a great strategy for going bust nice and slowly....

My biggest issue: finding an effective way of getting a message accross that ties our services up with what the client wants. Basically, the marketing was done years ago and is continually being refined, however, turning that into a message is the difficult part (going into the advertising part I know, but as I said earlier, the 2 overlap IMHO)

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Why are you arguing with yourself Michael? It doesn't look good...

 

[Clinton]

Furthermore since when was wikipedia known for its accuracy about anything.

I would rather take my chances with Wikipedia's no-agenda definition than the one used by a marketing organisation to market its members

Oxford Dictionary Online says that marketing is "the action or business of promoting and selling products or services , including market research and advertising". That. Is. It.

I'm afraid the CIM is the one out of tune. As much as they - and marketers - would like to see marketing as the big cog in the centre of all business activity and without which no business can happen ...it isn't.

 

The world's most successful organisations put marketing at the centre of everything.



Why because marketing is all about the customer and competitors.

Once you have worked out a winning business strategy advertising is there to communicate the right message to the right customer telling them about the right benefits.

Now to say a company can do without analysing its customers and competitors is juts nonsense. Some try but they don't get very far.

The overlap between the marketer and the advertiser should be more a case of the marketer telling the advertiser what to say.

Ever seen an ad on tv and wondered what the hell it was advertising, well if a true marketer had been involved you wouldn't, its because a fool had paid some creative types a fortune for an ad that has done them no good and what is worse the creative probably won a design award for it as well.

For the last time marketing is not sales and is not advertising it comes before any of that-or at least it does in successful organisations.

Someone mentioned apple not doing any market research ,well they do but there is a group of people who will buy any new technology just because its new, and trust me apple know who these people are.How... because they did research.

Marketing is developing an overall commercial strategy. Advertising is simply one form of sale promotion trying to sell the wrong product to the wrong person is pointless and without marketing that's exactly what happens and it doesn't work.

Marketing managers are responsible for developing and overseeing the marketing strategy for their organizations.

Their activities are geared toward increasing sales and making sure that sufficient quantities of products and services are available to meet demand. They typically oversee individuals who manage specific functions within the marketing department, such as sales, advertising, and public relations.

Marketing Managers utilize strategic planning and forecasting to make decisions necessary to meet or exceed budget goals, such as monitoring the activities of competitors, identifying prospective customers and new markets, estimating demand for the company's products and services, and monitoring market trends that can impact the need for new product development.

Marketing managers are involved in establishing and overseeing product pricing guidelines, branding strategies, and promotional campaigns. They are often involved in implementing product and customer service training with personnel throughout the organization.

 

"I would rather take my chances with Wikipedia's no-agenda definition than the one used by a marketing organisation to market its members "

I think you'll find it was more a case of marketing to marketers so that CIM can make money out of registration fees and exam fees. Many people in marketing never bothered because it has never been a licence to practice. The people who take it tended to be those who wanted a job in marketing but did not have a business or marketing degree, these tended to be the people who think marketing is what Clinton thinks it is,and you know what most of them didn't get very far with the course.

 

"My biggest issue: finding an effective way of getting a message accross that ties our services up with what the client wants. Basically, the marketing was done years ago and is continually being refined, however, turning that into a message is the difficult part (going into the advertising part I know, but as I said earlier, the 2 overlap IMHO)"

Its non of it easy Richard that's what marketing managers get paid a salary for.
Id personally question the reliability of keyword research etc done via google adwords, and there are other ways to do effective research.

I'm glad you recognise that it is an ongoing process many don't.

 

[Clinton]

The world's most successful organisations put marketing at the centre of everything.

So any organisation that doesn't have marketing at the centre of everything is not a successful organisation?

Google's first non-engineering hire was Kordestani, hired to do sales. Yes, sales. And that was a year after they started doing business ...roundabout the same time they hired a chef. Even today they don't consider marketing at the centre of everything. It's a shame. They could have achieved some success instead of fading into obscurity.

 

I think you will find google's marketing is very clever indeed.

 

[Clinton]

Ah, but clever is not what we're discussing. It's "marketing at the centre of everything".

Google didn't have marketing at the centre of everything then. They don't have marketing at the centre of everything now.

Marketing people make all these sweeping statements. Some of these claims are pure junk. You don't need marketing at the centre of everything. I've got the MBA you refer to earlier and know the theory. I've run businesses - and held marketing positions in other businesses - and know the practical side too.

Marketing is just one cog in the business machinery. The extent to which it interfaces with and influences other business functions varies widely and in some organisations it is at the centre of everything. But let's not get carried away and take that to mean that no organisation can be successful without such a huge emphasis on marketing.

 

Oh yes they do. Th reason you think they don't is becaus eyou don't know what marketing is.

 

I,ve never reffered to an MBA, I have an MSC i n project managment and like MBAs it aint worth the paper it's written on my friend.

You don't know what marketing is. You should lok into marketing befor even starting a business. Marketing is all about the customer so if it isn't at the centre of your business then you will fail.

I know why you think what you do and your'e wrong because your understanding of what marketing is like so many people's is wrong.

Just tell me what positions have you held exactly ?

 

[Clinton]

you don't know what marketing is.

Apparently so. But I'm in good company because the Oxford dictionary definition is wrong, other dictionaries are wrong and Google has yet to learn to put marketing at the centre of everything to build a successful business. I could live with that.

 

[Call Tracker]

I think everything begins with marketing and that means a product, its name and defining the target customer who will eventually buy the product. Marketing is not just about sending out flyers and placing adverts, it covers everything from product development to pricing.

As for frustrations, we market quite niche products that can often be difficult to sell or sum up with catchy phrases and slogans. Sometimes we find the more traditional routes to market simply don't work for our model and therefore we have to think much harder about how to promote products to the wider market. It would be great if we could send 10,000 flyers and place a series of adverts to get our leads!

 

Media monitor is correct.

The other element is competitors, it is part of marketing to ensure that you are meeting customer needs better than the rest and convince them you are.

Marketing is an all encompassing business strategy, which includes advertising as one small part.

As for the Oxford English Dictionary they are a joke, they add street slang as genuine words which should be in use. Talk about dumbing down Britain.

The point of marketing is to make the sales process more likely to succeed through effective targeting.

To reiterate the most basic of all models from marketing1.1
product, price, promotion, place. To my friend who claims to understand marketing please use the 4 ps or if you like the full 7 to prepare a marketing audit which you will then use to create a marketing plan for a product/service of your choice. You may like to use Pest and Swot analysis also.

I expect to look at resources and situational analysis as in any marketing plan.

why does something tell me you don't know how to do any of this which by the way does not even scratch the serface in what is involved in a marketing plan.

 

[debbidoo]

Google didn't have marketing at the centre of everything then. They don't have marketing at the centre of everything now.

Except they do One of Google's primary concerns is providing relevancy and thus value to its search customers (hence all the fancy technology that can tell if you're using black hat SEO techniques, and the fact that they charge advertisers a fortune if they don't use AdWords in a way that is properly relevant and useful to search customers). Providing relevancy and value to customers is at the very heart of marketing, and as such, in my opinion Google is a marketing-oriented company

Michael, I share your pain about how marketing is so often misunderstood and misinterpreted. It drives me barmy I wrote a blog post about it a couple of years ago which you might enjoy