Working with a convicted sex offender

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boring-friday

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Jun 5, 2015
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Community Service is instead of a custodial sentence. If you do not complete the community service you get locked up. Even so it is often seen as "they only got community service".

I had 200 hours community service back in the day. We just sat getting stoned most of the day.
Did do a few old ladies gardens to be fair but mostly moved some dirt from one pile to another and back again. Weren't allowed to do any proper jobs for the council as it means they'll lose jobs. Think its against the law to actually do anything useful for them
 
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Evolved

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Sep 30, 2018
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Sex offender is a generic term used to capture so many under an umbrella and causes fear. Two examples of sexual offences are private parts seen while doing the toilet in public and rape. Sex offender refers to both, but the mentality and inability to think first means most individuals instantly arrive at rapist or child molester when hearing the term 'sex offender'. Some sex offenders do pose risks from serious to minor, while others pose none. Like all crimes, most that gain a criminal record do turn away from this behaviour after the first conviction, while some take longer and some never do. I've done some research into crime, public attitude and opinions. While those convicted of rape cause some fear within a community, it was found that people fear drug dealers more and tend not to report drug dealers, but have no problem making life for rapists hard. On the evidence, drug related crimes cause more damage and fear within a community, yet are more acceptable than all sexual offences. Drugs kill our children, addict them and lead them into crimes that cause serious physical and mental damage on many many people while they supply their habits. Drug dealers make more victims than any sex offender, but that's OK, right? Why don't we find the courage to stand up and be counted on crime as a whole? Why don't we also accept that some criminals do want to change so much and do succeed? Just because someone has been convicted of an offence, it doesn't follow that they WILL continue on this harmful path, so be open minded, take precautions where necessary and give people a second chance. So as far as this serious child sexual offences are concerned and the community order disposal, I'd think it's more likely to be hype and exaggerated reaction, like making Everest out of a mole hole. Nobody is free of sin, lying, deception, treachery and unfaithful partners I find extremely dangerous and of the worst kinds, yet these aren't criminal, hence acceptable. Live and let live!
 
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Mr D

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Feb 12, 2017
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Sex offender is a generic term used to capture so many under an umbrella and causes fear. Two examples of sexual offences are private parts seen while doing the toilet in public and rape. Sex offender refers to both, but the mentality and inability to think first means most individuals instantly arrive at rapist or child molester when hearing the term 'sex offender'. Some sex offenders do pose risks from serious to minor, while others pose none. Like all crimes, most that gain a criminal record do turn away from this behaviour after the first conviction, while some take longer and some never do. I've done some research into crime, public attitude and opinions. While those convicted of rape cause some fear within a community, it was found that people fear drug dealers more and tend not to report drug dealers, but have no problem making life for rapists hard. On the evidence, drug related crimes cause more damage and fear within a community, yet are more acceptable than all sexual offences. Drugs kill our children, addict them and lead them into crimes that cause serious physical and mental damage on many many people while they supply their habits. Drug dealers make more victims than any sex offender, but that's OK, right? Why don't we find the courage to stand up and be counted on crime as a whole? Why don't we also accept that some criminals do want to change so much and do succeed? Just because someone has been convicted of an offence, it doesn't follow that they WILL continue on this harmful path, so be open minded, take precautions where necessary and give people a second chance. So as far as this serious child sexual offences are concerned and the community order disposal, I'd think it's more likely to be hype and exaggerated reaction, like making Everest out of a mole hole. Nobody is free of sin, lying, deception, treachery and unfaithful partners I find extremely dangerous and of the worst kinds, yet these aren't criminal, hence acceptable. Live and let live!


Perhaps readable with paragraphs.
 
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Evolved

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Sep 30, 2018
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Perhaps readable with paragraphs.


If you look around Europe you'll find countries with larger populations than Scotland with much lower crime rate. This is due to the difference of public attitudes, available supports, genuine rehabilitation and reintegration. We have much to learn from such countries on social evolution. Action steps adjusted then? We are snobs in Scotland with a rather blasé and holier than thou attitude that our view of self is better than every other nation.
 
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Evolved

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Sep 30, 2018
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If you look around Europe you'll find countries with larger populations than Scotland with much lower crime rate. This is due to the difference of public attitudes, available supports, genuine rehabilitation and reintegration. We have much to learn from such countries on social evolution. Action steps adjusted then? We are snobs in Scotland with a rather blasé and holier than thou attitude that our view of self is better than every other nation.

I believe in Sweden long term prison sentences are carried out on week days. Social policy there is well advanced. Not only are crime rates lower, but recidivism is lower.
 
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Mr D

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If you look around Europe you'll find countries with larger populations than Scotland with much lower crime rate. This is due to the difference of public attitudes, available supports, genuine rehabilitation and reintegration. We have much to learn from such countries on social evolution. Action steps adjusted then? We are snobs in Scotland with a rather blasé and holier than thou attitude that our view of self is better than every other nation.

Yes I believe many places are larger population than Scotland, not sure what population size has to do with crime rate.
Perhaps take up the crime rate with the criminals? Surely they must be able to impact it most.
 
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Evolved

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Sep 30, 2018
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Yes I believe many places are larger population than Scotland, not sure what population size has to do with crime rate.
Perhaps take up the crime rate with the criminals? Surely they must be able to impact it most.

Hypothetical numbers for illustration.

Country 1: population 10 million - convicted criminals 400,000.

Country 2: population 20 million - convicted criminals 250,000.

Again, figures are for illustration only.
 
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Newchodge

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Nov 8, 2012
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Perhaps take up the crime rate with the criminals? Surely they must be able to impact it most.

That assumes that the main reason for crime is the criminal's choice. That isn't always the case. Remember one of those ridiculous political slogans? Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime. In England (I can't speak for the rest of the UK) we don't care that there actually ARE causes of crime other than the criminal's choice.
 
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Evolved

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That assumes that the main reason for crime is the criminal's choice. That isn't always the case. Remember one of those ridiculous political slogans? Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime. In England (I can't speak for the rest of the UK) we don't care that there actually ARE causes of crime other than the criminal's choice.

England are leading the way though to addressing this. Scotland are always the last of the West to accept any positive change. Look at how England and Wales accepted the amendments to the rehabilitation of offenders act in 2012 and 2014. Scotland and Ireland refused and maintain this tough on crime stance, we have to maintain our privileged position as cavemen. There is movement in England and there is also Circles UK that is a charity where volunteers from all walks of life give their time and effort freely to work with sex offenders and employers to reintegrate them into the community with the focus being to help rehabilitate them and make for a safer community.
 
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Newchodge

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Nov 8, 2012
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In 1994 I was working in the criminal defence system. I can still remember the disgust and disquiet I felt when a 6 year old boy was murdered. I was so disturbed that now, all those years later, I still remember his name. I worked in Hartlepool, a long way from Cambridgeshire. The reaction of my local police to the murder was, effectively, - "just as well, the local lads have already picked him up loads of times. If he had made it to 10 (the age of criminal responsibility) he would have ended up inside. Saves the country a fortune, good riddance." This about the murder of a 6-year-old. This piece from the Independent sums up the life he had. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/the-boy-who-was-left-out-in-the-cold-1282408.html If he had lived long enough to be locked up, whose fault would it have been?
 
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Mr D

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Hypothetical numbers for illustration.

Country 1: population 10 million - convicted criminals 400,000.

Country 2: population 20 million - convicted criminals 250,000.

Again, figures are for illustration only.

That's total criminals and population, not the crime rate.
You can give the crime rate regardless of population size. Just as you can give an economic growth figure regardless of size of economy.
 
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Evolved

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Sep 30, 2018
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In 1994 I was working in the criminal defence system. I can still remember the disgust and disquiet I felt when a 6 year old boy was murdered. I was so disturbed that now, all those years later, I still remember his name. I worked in Hartlepool, a long way from Cambridgeshire. The reaction of my local police to the murder was, effectively, - "just as well, the local lads have already picked him up loads of times. If he had made it to 10 (the age of criminal responsibility) he would have ended up inside. Saves the country a fortune, good riddance." This about the murder of a 6-year-old. This piece from the Independent sums up the life he had. If he had lived long enough to be locked up, whose fault would it have been?

This is a heart breaking story. Some crimes are hard, even impossible to understand due to the level of wickedness, but even murders can be reformed. There is a lot of fear generated within society by the term 'sex offender', 'murderer' is self explanatory. The main problem with the 'sex offender' is nobody really knows what that means with relation to the crime commited.

I've thought of this and wondered if applying some kind of classification such as class 1 sex offender, class 2, 3, 4 etc would help society to gain a more balanced understanding of sex offenders, where class simply defines the gravity of the sexual offence and the risk posed to the public. Class 1 would be those convicted of the least serious and with the least risk to the public. While the higher classes represent greater seriousness and risk.

I believe that some people are so heinous that there is no way they could ever be allowed back into the community, but some sex offenders have commited non contact crimes such as sexual innuendo at work, sexual malicious phone calls, streaking, public indecency, etc. Preventing them from working isn't making the community any safer if the mode of their crimes is by telephone, email or on the streets, in parks, stadiums, etc.

I think approaching each offender on their own unique terms is a way forward. Maybe an employer can have a lengthy meeting with offenders and see if they are willing to discuss what they've done and why then how are they addressing this or how have they conquered it! A balanced approach can allow an insight into the personality, thinking patterns and character, etc.
 
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Mr D

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Feb 12, 2017
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That assumes that the main reason for crime is the criminal's choice. That isn't always the case. Remember one of those ridiculous political slogans? Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime. In England (I can't speak for the rest of the UK) we don't care that there actually ARE causes of crime other than the criminal's choice.

As its usually going to be the criminals breaking criminal law they can make an impact. Other things a lesser impact or no impact.

How many criminals are going to be committing crimes without a choice? I would guess a low number. If I hold a gun to your head to force you to steal from a business then yes you could be said to not have a choice. Are there other circumstances where there isn't a choice?
 
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Mr D

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Feb 12, 2017
28,619
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This is a heart breaking story. Some crimes are hard, even impossible to understand due to the level of wickedness, but even murders can be reformed. There is a lot of fear generated within society by the term 'sex offender', 'murderer' is self explanatory. The main problem with the 'sex offender' is nobody really knows what that means with relation to the crime commited.

I've thought of this and wondered if applying some kind of classification such as class 1 sex offender, class 2, 3, 4 etc would help society to gain a more balanced understanding of sex offenders, where class simply defines the gravity of the sexual offence and the risk posed to the public. Class 1 would be those convicted of the least serious and with the least risk to the public. While the higher classes represent greater seriousness and risk.

I believe that some people are so heinous that there is no way they could ever be allowed back into the community, but some sex offenders have commited non contact crimes such as sexual innuendo at work, sexual malicious phone calls, streaking, public indecency, etc. Preventing them from working isn't making the community any safer if the mode of their crimes is by telephone, email or on the streets, in parks, stadiums, etc.

I think approaching each offender on their own unique terms is a way forward. Maybe an employer can have a lengthy meeting with offenders and see if they are willing to discuss what they've done and why then how are they addressing this or how have they conquered it! A balanced approach can allow an insight into the personality, thinking patterns and character, etc.

Some 'sex offenders' are relatively harmless. An old man caught short and having a wee by a bus stop in daylight is seen as a sex offender if he gets his tackle out. Stand between a nightclub and the local taxi rank on a Friday night you can see men and women having a wee in shop doorways, by bushes, in gardens etc - a biologic reaction no different overall than the old man but its not something people will complain about at the time so can get away with it.
 
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