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Why overtaxing the rich is wrong

Discussion in 'General Business Forum' started by Cornish Steve, Apr 21, 2011.

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  1. adventurelife

    adventurelife UKBF Ace Full Member

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    Do the 3 applications have to go to advertised jobs? If so the system if flawed in the extreme as most jobs will never be advertised.
     
    Posted: Apr 26, 2011 By: adventurelife Member since: Dec 2, 2007
  2. Podge

    Podge UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    1,154 367
    Well they want to be able to check if necessary that you actually applied. I'm not too sure how I could find three jobs a week to apply for that weren't advertised. They're not too keen on speculative applications where there may not be a job on offer anyway.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
    Posted: Apr 26, 2011 By: Podge Member since: Jan 13, 2011
  3. JohnnyCash

    JohnnyCash Guest

    1,427 480
    It took me about an hour today to go through 200 job applications (electronically) and cull it down to a list of about 15 that deserve more than a minute of my time.
     
    Posted: Apr 26, 2011 By: JohnnyCash Member since: Dec 8, 2010
  4. adventurelife

    adventurelife UKBF Ace Full Member

    2,040 620
    At your age it is going to be difficult and I take it by your comment about your town you have a restricted geography. However, some employers are actively recruiting older people. B&Q is one example.

    Oldest I have recruited was 62. He convinced me he was the man from the job. Applied from Canada and moved to get the work leaving his wife at home for 3-6 months at a time. I am not suggesting that is what has to be done but it is an example of what people will do.

    Without doubt the longer you are unemployed the harder and harder it will get to get someone to take you on.

    You are focusing on your skills and no doubt you have been told to do so, but many employers are looking for attitude first and foremost. Sounds like you do not want to go back to catering and the engineering is probably dead in your area?

    I used to recruit for call centers years ago I only ever recruited those that convinced me to do so by phone;) There appearance or age had no relevance to me when I meet them it was all down to there phone skills and they way they approached me by phone. The thousands that applied by CV never got anywhere. It was call center jobs I expected people to call me and convince me to meet them.

    If I was in your position I would do what I always do when trying to get something done

    Research
    Design a system
    Work that system every hour I am awake
    Never stop
    Adapt to feedback
    Work the system harder
    Be extremely flexible ( ie when I was looking for work and now clients I went anywhere to get it/them)

    Sorry if the above sounds blunt but it is the only way I know how to get things done.

    Good luck and keep going it is a numbers game the more calls you make the more chance you will have
     
    Posted: Apr 26, 2011 By: adventurelife Member since: Dec 2, 2007
  5. adventurelife

    adventurelife UKBF Ace Full Member

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    If you only apply for jobs that are advertised you will be applying for very little.

    Job hunting week

    1 day of research into all possible employers this has become so easy due to the internet

    4-6 hours per day on the phone cold calling recording everything on spreadsheets with calls made to whom the reaction call back dates times etc.

    4 hrs a day on email following up the calls both those that were positive and negative and prospecting to get a fixed time to make a call.

    I day a week where you have planned to doorstop those that your research tells you that you could be a good fit

    Everything documented in a professional manner and I am sure no job center will accuse you of not applying.

    The above may sound over the top but finding a job as you know is a very hard job and should be approached with the view of a 50 plus hrs week
     
    Posted: Apr 26, 2011 By: adventurelife Member since: Dec 2, 2007
  6. sirearl

    sirearl UKBF Legend Free Member

    29,807 6,644
    You do mean exceptional people may get a job.?

    Your average 55 year old baldy may struggle a tad more in the current climate.;)

    Earl
     
    Posted: Apr 26, 2011 By: sirearl Member since: Apr 23, 2007
  7. adventurelife

    adventurelife UKBF Ace Full Member

    2,040 620
    Nothing wrong with 55 year old baldies if they can cut it, they have a wealth of experience so it only comes down do they still have the drive and attitude to apply in and in positions that are probably no where near as senior as maybe they were used to.

    But yes exceptional people will always be at the front of the line that is life.
     
    Posted: Apr 26, 2011 By: adventurelife Member since: Dec 2, 2007
  8. atmosbob

    atmosbob UKBF Ace Free Member

    4,105 923
    I wonder why not? IMHE they are the only applications worth making. I have never answered an ad for a job; I only ever made speculative job enquiries.

    Of all the people I have employed only 3 were after I advertised vacancies. All the others went to people keen enough to approach me.
     
    Posted: Apr 26, 2011 By: atmosbob Member since: Oct 26, 2009
  9. bdw

    bdw Banned

    6,568 1,269
    I am shocked at the smug and sanctimonious views being expressed in here by people who don't really have a clue what it is like to look for work in this climate. It would appear from what some of you are saying that there are plenty of jobs for the 2.5 million people who are unemployed. They are just doing something wrong right? They are not knocking on the right doors and there are 2.5 million doors waiting to be knocked by people with impressive CVs bearing their picture and an with an unusual approach, eh?

    With respect the figures do not add up and it is absolute nonsense to try to suggest that they do. :(

    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
    Posted: Apr 26, 2011 By: bdw Member since: Aug 13, 2008
  10. grabul

    grabul UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    20 3

    Steve, I did grow up on one of the roughest council estates in my area. It did have rampent unempolyment in 1976 when i left school and there have always been drug and gang problems on it. I have worked twice as hard most of the people who left school the same time as me, lots of them still live in the estate in social housing and I am still freinds with them, I get fed up with the amount of times they tell me how lucky I am to have my own company and how well off I must be. Over the years they have all had more holidays than me, go out more than me and I have almost lost my house 4 times due to me tring to push my company forward constantly. Now that I am finally beginning to get to a point where I am looking like my time and constant stress is beginning to pay off, I now find that if I dare reward myself for all my efforts I may well be taxed to death to "redistribute" my wealth to those people who are "less well off". We all know this story, when old mates tell you how they had 3 holidays abroad, the new car for the wife etc and are happy to go to the factory every day do their work then come home to their 58 inch TV to watch the match before going down the pub with the lads. But we struggle for years, putting in sometimes 16 hours a day and earning less than any of them for years, and when it finally starts to pay off we are "lucky". Sorry, but I have worked damn hard for what I am beginning to reap and I don't see why I should subsidise their tax bill with extra tax on mine. Fairs fair.
     
    Posted: Apr 26, 2011 By: grabul Member since: Nov 14, 2008
  11. bdw

    bdw Banned

    6,568 1,269
    All we have in favour of your argument is your word that you worked harder than all of them. That is hardly making a case is it?

    I suspect that some of them may disagree with you. Working in a factory and earning decent money for doing so is not a picnic and I bet some of them work at least as hard as you.

    .
     
    Posted: Apr 26, 2011 By: bdw Member since: Aug 13, 2008
  12. Podge

    Podge UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    1,154 367
    Then you have either been lucky enough to be unemployed in a time of low unemployment or you don't have a family to provide food and shelter for.

    And all these people just happened to approach you at a time when you were looking for somebody?
     
    Posted: Apr 26, 2011 By: Podge Member since: Jan 13, 2011
  13. Podge

    Podge UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    1,154 367
    Posted: Apr 26, 2011 By: Podge Member since: Jan 13, 2011
  14. An Oasis

    An Oasis UKBF Newcomer Full Member

    9,901 1,684
    I trained in engineering as a turner but would only ever be semi-skilled.

    Why only ever be semi-skilled?

    I first looked to get back in engineering but by this time the industry was in a slump and any job that were advertised were for fully skilled turners as there was a glut of them looking for jobs.

    I apply for any job that I think I can do and any job that doesn't ask for qualification I don't have. I tailor my CV to the jobs I apply for and always send a covering letter.

    Do you think that qualifications mean that someone can “actually” do a job that they are qualified to do? Or are they a quick way to sift through applications?

    I have tramped the streets of my town hawking my CV around companies that I think could use what I have to offer. I must have been in every shop asking for employment. I always go suited and booted but the story is always the same.

    Do you think that clothing really makes any difference? You can’t see or dress a brain and that is what people are really employing.

    Can you imagine how demoralising this is?

    Yes I think that we all can/do.

    I took a college course that I hope will get me into call centre work but the one interview I've had so far I was unsucessful although I will continue to try and get into this line of work.

    Do you think that the education system is ahead or behind the curve, i.e. are they monitoring markets and anticipating growth areas or simply looking to tap in to available funding?

    Do you think that the call centre industry (in the UK) is emerging, static or in decay?

    Now call me cynical but I don't think my age goes down well with prospective employers and if truth be told I don't blame them if that is what the issue is. I mean would you employ somebody nearing sixty particularlly with the compulsary retirement age being abolished.

    B&Q were very successful in employing older people as customer liaison/reps in stores.

    So what should I be doing? If you were in my position what would you do to try and find work with the skills I have?

    Your skill set


    • Waiter
    • restaurant manager
    • publican
    • hotelier
    • turner
    • call centre operative

    Is there a high level of demand for any of these?
    Are any of them specialist enough to mean that employees can demand specifics?
    ….

    A quick tale for you.

    I have a friend who was a self-employed handyman. He got sick of having to market, do accounts, take care of taxes, running and maintaining his vehciles, purchasing materials, getting customers to pay his bills…

    So one day he applied for a job working in a warehouse for a large supermarket chain, by day two he realised that being self employed was not as bad as he thought.

    He nows runs a quite successful property renovation firm.

    Ooooops it’s 5.30AM and I should have started working 15 minutes ago.
     
    Posted: Apr 27, 2011 By: An Oasis Member since: Oct 3, 2006
  15. An Oasis

    An Oasis UKBF Newcomer Full Member

    9,901 1,684
    Oh and vagely back on topic http://timworstall.com/2011/04/26/tax-justice-network-still-ignorant/

    Worth a read if you believe that success should be penalised and that the state should hand you everything on a subsidies plate - hell yes let's squeeze anything positive until it becomes a negative.
     
    Posted: Apr 27, 2011 By: An Oasis Member since: Oct 3, 2006
  16. atmosbob

    atmosbob UKBF Ace Free Member

    4,105 923
    I have never thought of myself as lucky. Luck comes to those who work the hardest.

    I am a photographer and that is how it worked. When I left college I wrote letters speculatively. Write enough letters and sooner or later one will arrive in the same week that a studio needs a new assistant. I worked as an assistant for 4 years before going freelance. My own first assistant came to me straight out of college and later became MD of Pinewood Studios. Another assistant I employed was a studio messenger who popped in to see me just as my current assistant was leaving. I offered him a job and he later became one of London's top advertising photographers.

    Now, many years later I have employed staff in a number of positions. However it does seem as if I might have to advertise for a salesman soon because there seems to be a distinct lack of people approaching me on spec.
     
    Posted: Apr 27, 2011 By: atmosbob Member since: Oct 26, 2009
  17. bdw

    bdw Banned

    6,568 1,269
    I cannot believe some of you. All of these jobs available and all you have to do is ask? I must live in a different world. :rolleyes:

    .
     
    Posted: Apr 27, 2011 By: bdw Member since: Aug 13, 2008
  18. atmosbob

    atmosbob UKBF Ace Free Member

    4,105 923
    To be serious I think it is a lot better to decide who you want to work for and then to approach them than to take any job advertised in your local paper or job centre. You choose your destiny rather than fate choosing you to do a dead end 9-5 job.

    The 1st question many employers will ask at interview is whether the applicant shows initiative. What better way to show it than to already have approached the business with a query about working for them?

    It used to be estimated that the cost of advertising a position was around £1,000 with the time taken for interviews and stuff. You could be saving a company a lot of money by approaching them.
     
    Posted: Apr 27, 2011 By: atmosbob Member since: Oct 26, 2009
  19. bdw

    bdw Banned

    6,568 1,269
    You are really being serious about this? You honestly believe that any significant number of unemployed people can just chose who they want to work for?

    And after they have chosen all they have to do is knock the door and a job will become available as if by magic?

    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2011
    Posted: Apr 27, 2011 By: bdw Member since: Aug 13, 2008
  20. atmosbob

    atmosbob UKBF Ace Free Member

    4,105 923
    No, I didn't say that. What I said is that the best way to increase your chances in my experience is to use your initiative and be speculative in your approach.

    I accept that there is a massive, and I mean massive skills shortage in the UK. I accept that there will be many unemployable people who will struggle to find a job. Why make it harder by waiting for the right job to be advertised?
     
    Posted: Apr 27, 2011 By: atmosbob Member since: Oct 26, 2009
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