VAT returns "to be submitted digitally"

Discussion in 'Accounts & Finance' started by Justin Smith, Oct 17, 2018.

  1. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    577 59
    The fact I`m having to get my info off a soddin` forum just speaks volumes about how all this "Make Tax Digital" is a complete farce... The fact it`s a supposedly business friendly Tory Govt just makes it all the more inexcusable. Incidentally, when I mentioned earlier about the contrast with how a Labour Govt tried to ease the burden on small businesses by introducing a flat rate VAT system, I didn`t state the most obvious difference, that scheme was voluntary. The business could either continue with the standard VAT system or swap to the flat rate system, nobody was telling them they had to do anything (other than pay their VAT, obviously)
     
    Posted: Oct 26, 2018 By: Justin Smith Member since: Jun 6, 2012
    #81
  2. johndon68

    johndon68 UKBF Big Shot Full Member - Verified Business

    3,397 619
    It was designed, at least originally, to be used by self employed freelancers and contractors and it's features reflect that. For example, it doesn't, so far as I can see from their website, do stock control.

    John
     
    Posted: Oct 26, 2018 By: johndon68 Member since: Nov 2, 2009
    #82
  3. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    577 59
    I`m not bothered about the stock control bit. We do a relatively small number of higher margin products. I know doing stuff on paper and physically checking the stock every week ( I don`t accurately count it every week.....) when I do my stock orders takes time, it`s not that much time. Furthermore I feel it gets all the numbers into my head better and helps me keep in close touch with it all. When our biggest suppliers stopped sending out paper invoices I found I lost a little contact on what was going on, I`d physically read the whole paper invoice, but when it`s on a pdf on a screen I just tend to skim through it, I`m unconvinced it "goes in" (to my brain) in the same way. I suspect it`ll be the same with computer based accounts over my faithful accounts ledger. In the latter, btw, I add little notes about unusual totals for any particular month so, when I look at the years resume I can instantly see what it was which caused that anomaly.
    Further, part of this business is the rent from the flats over the shop, both the rents form them and the maintenance costs of them, I`m hoping this computer based thing won`t find that a problem. With my accounts ledger I can change cost centres as I want, amalgamate or split them out, at the drop of a rubber.....
     
    Posted: Oct 26, 2018 By: Justin Smith Member since: Jun 6, 2012
    #83
  4. Maltesemagjc

    Maltesemagjc UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    12 2
    Is there any chance that MTD will be delayed does anyone think? Reasons for asking are myself and husband have run our own business for over 30 years using a Twinlock double entry system, fully paper system with a turnover of approx 500k. We process around 200 cash sale invoices a week and ok it’s time consuming but suits us, we know what we’re doing and are retiring in 2 years anyway. We live on an isolated farm (which is where our office is) ok we’ve got an internet connection but very slow, internet banking times out for security etc. Can’t dowload films, watch you tube etc. Will there be any provision for people like us?
     
    Posted: Jan 10, 2019 By: Maltesemagjc Member since: Apr 7, 2017
    #84
  5. UK Contractor Accountant

    UK Contractor Accountant UKBF Big Shot Full Member - Verified Business

    4,689 786
    Not in my opinion. Letters already going out to VAT traders over the limit. Some are already submitting digitally under the Pilot Scheme.

    There are exceptions so check the Gov.Co website for full details.
     
    Posted: Jan 10, 2019 By: UK Contractor Accountant Member since: Sep 18, 2013
    #85
  6. SteLacca

    SteLacca UKBF Ace Free Member

    1,507 297
    Sorry, I completely missed this, but yes, I do (and in fact there has been more than one):

    Jacqueline Haigh V HMRC (TC06601) (para 4(11) is useful)
    Khan Properties Ltd v HMRC (TC06225) (§23)
    Expion Silverstone (TC06638) (10(3))
    Paul Smith (TC06639) (§11)

    I'm pretty sure that there have been a couple more since.
     
    Posted: Jan 10, 2019 By: SteLacca Member since: Jun 16, 2016
    #86
  7. paulears

    paulears UKBF Big Shot Full Member

    3,993 986
    There is the facility to ask for exemption - it's on the HMRC site in the VAT section. The available reasons fall into sections, and I think internet connection is one of them. Incidentally - are you without phone service too? You could always use that if it works for your internet service?
     
    Posted: Jan 10, 2019 By: paulears Member since: Jan 7, 2015
    #87
  8. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    577 59
    It must be very frustrating for you being two years from retirement. If I was two years from retirement I`d consider shutting my business down (or selling it) early, I`m sure t5here will be a significant number of people in that position who do just that.
    I am a bit surprised you do all your won books and on paper (both just like me) for a business turning over £500K a year ! I`m only just over the VAT threshold so feel particularly aggrieved their is no dispensation for me. Arguably there should be a dispensation for MTD for companies who do their own books and turnover, say, less than 250K (or £500K ! ), because it`s them who are going to take the biggest hit from this. It really won`t make much difference to companies who use an accountant, or who employ an accountant.
     
    Posted: Jan 11, 2019 By: Justin Smith Member since: Jun 6, 2012
    #88
  9. paulears

    paulears UKBF Big Shot Full Member

    3,993 986
    For two years it would be better to ask an accountant to set you up an account on one of the simple systems where you just enter the figures and let them do the online reporting. By the time HMRC get around to chasing those who didn't know/didn't bother, sorting them and then getting back to normal business, you'll have retired.
     
    Posted: Jan 11, 2019 By: paulears Member since: Jan 7, 2015
    #89
  10. Maltesemagjc

    Maltesemagjc UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    12 2
    Thanks for the reply, yes did ask about exception due to internet connection but they said if we’ve already been submitting our returns online (which we have as only takes 5mins once all the figures are in) we won’t be exempt. They did say that there’ll be more info at the end of this month about exclusions et .
     
    Posted: Jan 13, 2019 By: Maltesemagjc Member since: Apr 7, 2017
    #90
  11. Maltesemagjc

    Maltesemagjc UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    12 2
    Thanks for the reply. Yes we would like nothing more than to retire now but unfortunately that isn’t an option for at least 2 years. We are currently talking to our accountant regarding costs of setting things up for us then, going forward, when we retire the new owner could take over where we leave it. Last thing we need to be doing though to be honest.
     
    Posted: Jan 13, 2019 By: Maltesemagjc Member since: Apr 7, 2017
    #91
  12. Maltesemagjc

    Maltesemagjc UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    12 2
    Thanks for the reply. Yes we have actually spoken to our accountant and he’s looking into our options. HMRC have said that there’ll be more info about help etc at the end of this month .....
     
    Posted: Jan 13, 2019 By: Maltesemagjc Member since: Apr 7, 2017
    #92
  13. Clinton

    Clinton UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    4,501 1,703
    Only takes 5 mins? Great! People who objected to HMRC's power grab in forcing things online should have stood up and fought at the time, like I did.

    Don't stand up for a principle, bend over and acquiesce because it's easier or takes "just 5 mins", and it could come back and bite you in the backside.
     
    Posted: Jan 13, 2019 By: Clinton Member since: Jan 17, 2010
    #93
  14. paulears

    paulears UKBF Big Shot Full Member

    3,993 986
    If your internet can cope with the old system, then maybe one of the simple reporting apps people are producing where you type in the usual box info, and it converts and submits it would work for you? ~Carry on the old paper system, add the figures into the app, rather than on-line, and then it submits them. There are lots of software sources on the HMRC site - but that also assumes your internet can manage that!
     
    Posted: Jan 13, 2019 By: paulears Member since: Jan 7, 2015
    #94
  15. Maltesemagjc

    Maltesemagjc UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    12 2
    Thanks for the reply . Yes I’ve just spoken to someone who mentioned that today and then some kind of bridging software, don’t understand it really but sounds like that would be an easier option subject to our internet coping. Our internet makes everything so difficult that’s really why we’ve carried on with a double entry manual booking system for so long. Can do short tasks ok but things like internet banking cuts off because it takes too long to connect.
     
    Posted: Jan 14, 2019 By: Maltesemagjc Member since: Apr 7, 2017
    #95
  16. Ground Investigator

    Ground Investigator UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    27 5
    I'm just a few clicks away from filing our first MTD Vat return in the pilot scheme.
    Once you take the time to get signed up its quite readily manageable.
    I've never really understood why any paper accounts still survive. Spreadsheets have been around for decades, so what do you mean by paper accounts these days? Surely you're not adding up your VAT totals by calculator and writing it down?
     
    Posted: Jan 16, 2019 By: Ground Investigator Member since: Jan 4, 2019
    #96
  17. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    577 59
    I use paper accounts, and yes, by definition, I use a calculator with them. They do have advantages actually, e.g. they`re more flexible, I can add or alter or amalgamate cost centres etc, plus, the fact they keep me in touch with the figures so much better. They go into my brain. As my suppliers stopped sending out invoices, just pdfs by E Mail, I don`t actually study them like I used to.
    The fact is, however HMRC may like to tell me they`re doing me a favour forcing me to use a digital system, I know how to use my paper books, they don`t take that long, and I don`t have to pay some IT supplier £20 a month (or whatever it is) for "the system".
    There`s deeper point here, it concerns me that to conducts more and more of my business (and indeed life) I need to become a sodding IT expert, or rely on other people to sort out problems in that area. I don`t like it one bit, I prefer self reliance and not wasting my time having constantly update my IT skills and/or software.....
     
    Posted: Jan 19, 2019 By: Justin Smith Member since: Jun 6, 2012
    #97
  18. Ground Investigator

    Ground Investigator UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    27 5
    I do sympathise with you Justin as life, the universe and everything will always be changing and providing us with new challenges to keep up with ( until we retire of course, after which the requirement to evolve lessens a little ). But consider what sort of world would we inhabit if nothing ever changed and we lived in a kind of equilibrium stasis, suspended forever at the same point in our development cycle? That would present challenges in itself. Life evolves naturally, for individual living things as well as species on a wider communal evolution. Our technological advancement is a physical manifestation of the evolution of our minds. Prolonged stasis is unhealthy for evolutionary beings. In terms of deeper points it depends on what level of deeper delving you want to stop at.
     
    Posted: Jan 21, 2019 By: Ground Investigator Member since: Jan 4, 2019
    #98
  19. Higgsy

    Higgsy UKBF Contributor Free Member

    65 11
    I honestly don't understand the problem (it may be that I am slightly younger..).

    The best thing I did was move to a digital accounting software. I moved my companies all on to Xero, which works from the computer, and our smartphones. We register our receipts, make quotes, make invoices from our phones. A few times a month either myself or the wife logs on the computer, reconcile our accounts/commercial cards, PAYE. Every 3 months, we click VAT report, click submit and pay the amount...

    It is 100 x quicker, and sorts out our exempt work too.
     
    Posted: Jan 22, 2019 By: Higgsy Member since: Oct 1, 2018
    #99
  20. Justin Smith

    Justin Smith UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    577 59

    How can it be 100X quicker ? You still have to log all the data it`s just you`re not writing it down you`re entering it into a computer. Actually calculating the VAT doesn`t even take 5 minutes, it`s all the work up to that point which takes the time.
     
    Posted: Jan 22, 2019 By: Justin Smith Member since: Jun 6, 2012