Unofficial UKBF Manifesto For SMEs

[NickGrogan]

It would be nice to have a law or perhaps enforcement that stops illegal things happening. If I go and nick something I can't have the courts rule it never happened. It's still breaking the law.

If the courts rule that you didn't steal something, then you didn't steal anything. That's literally the definition of the rule of law.

 

[Craiglincs]

I can't post links but the house of commons library says it was ruled as unlawful. I am not a lawyer but that doesn't sound like legal or not guilty to me.

 

[NickGrogan]

Nope. The courts ruled, eventually, that the prorogation was unlawful and, as it was unlawful it could not have happened, so all record of it was expunged and parliament continued as if it had not been prorogued and unable to act for a number of weeks. If the law had blocked the prorogation on the day it was attempted, we would need no other support. But it did not.

Prorogation started 2am 10th September

Brexit: Protests as five-week Parliament suspension begins

In dramatic scenes in the Commons, MPs hold up signs, chant and sing songs to protest against the suspension.

www.bbc.co.uk

Supreme court ruling on the 24th September, that it was unlawful and therefore never happened.

As you are no doubt aware these court cases would be relied upon for any future cases.

So the number of weeks was 2, and we have no need of additional laws as the ones we have worked as they should.

What would an additional law cover that is not already covered by the court cases?

 

[Craiglincs]

Prorogation started 2am 10th September

Brexit: Protests as five-week Parliament suspension begins

In dramatic scenes in the Commons, MPs hold up signs, chant and sing songs to protest against the suspension.

www.bbc.co.uk

Supreme court ruling on the 24th September, that it was unlawful and therefore never happened.

As you are no doubt aware these court cases would be relied upon for any future cases.

So the number of weeks was 2, and we have no need of additional laws as the ones we have worked as they should.

What would an additional law cover that is not already covered by the court cases?

I don't understand this whole it was unlawful therefore never happened thing.

Parliament was suspended - or prorogued - at just before 02:00 BST on Tuesday.

During the five-week suspension, parties will hold their annual conferences but no debates, votes or committee scrutiny sessions will take place.

That sounds like things that happened to me. As I understand it the courts ruled it never happened after the fact. How about a method to stop it from occurring in the first place?

How about a stay at his majesty's pleasure for anyone trying this?

 

[thetiger2015]

How about a method to stop it from occurring in the first place?

How about a stay at his majesty's pleasure for anyone trying this?

You mean, like a law? They'd have to abide by a law for it to have any impact and those with deep pockets are largely not concerned about such restrictions.

Take a peek here: https://www.thenational.scot/news/1...al-market-bill-will-break-law-in-limited-way/

“The secretary of state has said that he is committed and the Government are committed to the rule of law. Does he recognise that adherence to the rule of law is not negotiable?

“Against that background, will he assure us that nothing that is proposed in this legislation does or potentially might breach international legal obligations or international legal arrangements that we have entered into?”

Lewis replied: “I would say that yes this breaks international law in a very specific and limited way."

Governments have no issue with bending things, to suit an agenda or get their own way. They don't work for us, they have employers and investors who drive decision making. Laws are for little people.

 

[Newchodge]

Are you seriously trying to claim that prorogation did not happen because, 2 weeks after it happened the courts ruled that it was unlawful and should therefore not have happened, so it did not? Have you read George Orwell? What about the business that should have been conducted during those weeks?

 

[Newchodge]

Prorogation started 2am 10th September

Brexit: Protests as five-week Parliament suspension begins

In dramatic scenes in the Commons, MPs hold up signs, chant and sing songs to protest against the suspension.

www.bbc.co.uk

Supreme court ruling on the 24th September, that it was unlawful and therefore never happened.

As you are no doubt aware these court cases would be relied upon for any future cases.

So the number of weeks was 2, and we have no need of additional laws as the ones we have worked as they should.

What would an additional law cover that is not already covered by the court cases?

Why are you talking about additional laws when the point of this discussion was your question about when the Tories illegally prorogued parliament? Prorogation took place on 28 August 2019 when the Queen made the order on advice from the Johnson-pillock PM. The fact it took some time to come into effect is irrelevant. Illegal prorigation took place.

 

[Byzantium]

It is not rocket science.

2024 Business Rates £27bn

2024 Corporation Tax £100bn

Get rid of business rates and add the sum to corporation tax.

Get rid of everyone who is employed collecting business rates - they can fill all the unfilled jobs

 

[Newchodge]

It is not rocket science.

2024 Business Rates £27bn

2024 Corporation Tax £100bn

Get rid of business rates and add the sum to corporation tax.

Get rid of everyone who is employed collecting business rates - they can fill all the unfilled jobs

Business rates are local authority income. Corporation tax is central govrnment income. Giving central government even more control over local authority finance, which is not a Good thing.

 

[NickGrogan]

Are you seriously trying to claim that prorogation did not happen because, 2 weeks after it happened the courts ruled that it was unlawful and should therefore not have happened, so it did not? Have you read George Orwell? What about the business that should have been conducted during those weeks?

Read the court documents and the parliamentary documents, if you think they're wrong you can raise a case.

 

[NickGrogan]

Why are you talking about additional laws when the point of this discussion was your question about when the Tories illegally prorogued parliament? Prorogation took place on 28 August 2019 when the Queen made the order on advice from the Johnson-pillock PM. The fact it took some time to come into effect is irrelevant. Illegal prorigation took place.

You're saying the fact that it didn't start when you said it started doesn't matter, because it started later? Very Orwellian.

@Craiglincs what's extra laws, I'm simply pointing out we have laws and they were applied, so we have no need for more laws. Which you seem to agree with.

 

[NickGrogan]

Business rates are local authority income. Corporation tax is central govrnment income. Giving central government even more control over local authority finance, which is not a Good thing.

Why is it not a good thing?

If it takes more people to collect the tax, meaning that more tax is spent on the tax itself, this is less money for the people/services that need the money.

 

[RandyMarsh]

Business rates are local authority income. Corporation tax is central govrnment income. Giving central government even more control over local authority finance, which is not a Good thing.

But local authorities have no control over the level of business rates, they are just responsible for collecting them. The rating scheme is set by central government.

 

[Newchodge]

But local authorities have no control over the level of business rates, they are just responsible for collecting them. The rating scheme is set by central government.

I know that. But, as you say, the local authority collects the money so has physical control of it.

 

[RandyMarsh]

It is not rocket science.

2024 Business Rates £27bn

2024 Corporation Tax £100bn

Get rid of business rates and add the sum to corporation tax.

Get rid of everyone who is employed collecting business rates - they can fill all the unfilled jobs

But large companies dodge corporation tax. I pay more corporation tax than Amazon.

Amazon’s main UK division pays no corporation tax for second year in a row

Amazon UK Services received tax credit of £7.7m for investment in infrastructure under Rishi Sunak’s super-deduction scheme

www.theguardian.com

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

I pay more corporation tax than Amazon.

And that is because of a Conservative tax policy!!!!

 

[RandyMarsh]

Surely you keep them as two separate businesses?

The point of merging them is to get the efficiencies of a single business: Shared staff, ordering larger amounts from suppliers, one set of admin and accounts, shared branding etc. If you try to game the system buy running two identical businesses from different locations and try to claim a rates rebate your claim will be rejected.

 

[NickGrogan]

The point of merging them is to get the efficiencies of a single business: Shared staff, ordering larger amounts from suppliers, one set of admin and accounts, shared branding etc. If you try to game the system buy running two identical businesses from different locations and try to claim a rates rebate your claim will be rejected.

Are those benefits worth more than £13k per annum? If so, its worthwhile to pay the council tax. If they're not worth £13k then don't bother with them, run the two businesses separately, compete with each other and take the rates discount.

 

[Scott DLE]

“Skint” on channel 4 is worth watching. It’s an economist from the FT who pretty much shows how messed up the UK is right now. Seemed to be based on lack infrastructure funding for a long time, lack of investment due to planning red tape and many more things. Which entails a serious lack of growth. This has been on going since the crash in 2008.

I actually have zero clue who to vote for. They really need a cross party solution as we are honestly in dire straits. It’s fine to be wealthy or comfortable- but if your surrounded by families on the breadline, broken infrastructure, broken public services. Well, its not much fun at the same time. Do I think Labour can fix the mess? Absolutely not!

 

[thetiger2015]

I actually have zero clue who to vote for. They really need a cross party solution as we are honestly in dire straits. It’s fine to be wealthy or comfortable- but if your surrounded by families on the breadline, broken infrastructure, broken public services. Well, its not much fun at the same time. Do I think Labour can fix the mess? Absolutely not!

Why not?

Under Labour, NHS waiting lists were lower. Immigration figures were lower. It's difficult to compare, because we're talking 14+ years ago and the worlds changed, plus there's been a huge amount of waste in public spending but things can't get much worse?

The news channels keep trying to hit Labour with the line '..but you'll have to raise taxes..scary, scary' Well, obviously??? Front line services have been battered by poor spending decisions and mental health care is in desperate need of more funding. There's no money tree. Labour had to use private finance for schools/hospitals last time. Yes, it meant more spending and the tax payer ultimately foots the bill but it's better than the current trajectory, in to the mud.

Labour will have to find more money. They'll try and cut waste first but they'll have to raise certain taxes, to repair the damage. The pot holes, the NHS waiting lists, the huge bill for immigration housing, rising costs across all sectors, the lack of healthcare workers, the dire state of our armed forces? Have you seen how bad that is? the RFA can barely put a ship to sea, there's no crew available!

 

[Scott DLE]

Why not?

Under Labour, NHS waiting lists were lower. Immigration figures were lower. It's difficult to compare, because we're talking 14+ years ago and the worlds changed, plus there's been a huge amount of waste in public spending but things can't get much worse?

The news channels keep trying to hit Labour with the line '..but you'll have to raise taxes..scary, scary' Well, obviously??? Front line services have been battered by poor spending decisions and mental health care is in desperate need of more funding. There's no money tree. Labour had to use private finance for schools/hospitals last time. Yes, it meant more spending and the tax payer ultimately foots the bill but it's better than the current trajectory, in to the mud.

Labour will have to find more money. They'll try and cut waste first but they'll have to raise certain taxes, to repair the damage. The pot holes, the NHS waiting lists, the huge bill for immigration housing, rising costs across all sectors, the lack of healthcare workers, the dire state of our armed forces? Have you seen how bad that is? the RFA can barely put a ship to sea, there's no crew available!

Mate that was before the credit crunch of 2008. I don’t think any government on their own can fix this. They might get a super majority and get things past. But tell me : when has Labour fixed red tape? It’s red tape that’s stifling growth and investment.

You’re right though about NHS etc. but there has been zero pledge for councils. Ah think Labour shall win, I might even vote them in too. But I think they are gonna open the door and instead of the tories seeing a note saying we are broke, they already know we are broke. Fresh legs and minds though can’t go wrong.

We are gonna have to increase tax! There is no doubt about that. But it won’t amount to much without growth in productivity and investment. You are right it’s clutching at straws about not having to increase tax and that being the bogey man.

What we have , which needs fixing is:

A terrible infrastructure
Kids in poverty
Families in poverty
Homelessness
Lack of affordable housing
Greedy landlords taking the piss
Education system underfunded

What they need is :
Rail links everywhere which are better
Better roads and better maintenance
More housing
More affordable housing

I’m not a politician, but that’s just some of what I reckon they need cross party support on though.

But aye , I can’t stand the fact that we have a situation where kids can’t afford school uniforms or food and parents on the breadline. Not because they are lay abouts etc. but because business can’t afford to pay more and prices are out of reach for people to afford. It’s not right man! Something has to give eh!

 

[Newchodge]

Mate that was before the credit crunch of 2008. I don’t think any government on their own can fix this. They might get a super majority and get things past. But tell me : when has Labour fixed red tape? It’s red tape that’s stifling growth and investment.

You’re right though about NHS etc. but there has been zero pledge for councils. Ah think Labour shall win, I might even vote them in too. But I think they are gonna open the door and instead of the tories seeing a note saying we are broke, they already know we are broke. Fresh legs and minds though can’t go wrong.

We are gonna have to increase tax! There is no doubt about that. But it won’t amount to much without growth in productivity and investment. You are right it’s clutching at straws about not having to increase tax and that being the bogey man.

What we have , which needs fixing is:

A terrible infrastructure
Kids in poverty
Families in poverty
Homelessness
Lack of affordable housing
Greedy landlords taking the piss
Education system underfunded

What they need is :
Rail links everywhere which are better
Better roads and better maintenance
More housing
More affordable housing

I’m not a politician, but that’s just some of what I reckon they need cross party support on though.

But aye , I can’t stand the fact that we have a situation where kids can’t afford school uniforms or food and parents on the breadline. Not because they are lay abouts etc. but because business can’t afford to pay more and prices are out of reach for people to afford. It’s not right man! Something has to give eh!

Most importantly that was before 14 years of cuts in public spending, in every area, so we won't be starting from the 2010 position there are the lost years to put right as well. We can have a cross party solution if the Labour party sees sense and brings in proportional representation. Without that we don't have a chance.

 

[Fagin2021]

We can have a cross party solution if the Labour party sees sense and brings in proportional representation. Without that we don't have a chance.

On todays polls proportional representation would give the Reform party nearly 100 seats. Are you happy with that ?

 

[Scott DLE]

Most importantly that was before 14 years of cuts in public spending, in every area, so we won't be starting from the 2010 position there are the lost years to put right as well. We can have a cross party solution if the Labour party sees sense and brings in proportional representation. Without that we don't have a chance.

Definitely need cross party strategy now.

 

[Newchodge]

On todays polls proportional representation would give the Reform party nearly 100 seats. Are you happy with that ?

I am as happy with that as I am with the Tories having 100 seats. Not a lot of difference, really.

 

[Craiglincs]

Why not?

Under Labour, NHS waiting lists were lower. Immigration figures were lower. It's difficult to compare, because we're talking 14+ years ago and the worlds changed, plus there's been a huge amount of waste in public spending but things can't get much worse?

The news channels keep trying to hit Labour with the line '..but you'll have to raise taxes..scary, scary' Well, obviously??? Front line services have been battered by poor spending decisions and mental health care is in desperate need of more funding. There's no money tree. Labour had to use private finance for schools/hospitals last time. Yes, it meant more spending and the tax payer ultimately foots the bill but it's better than the current trajectory, in to the mud.

Labour will have to find more money. They'll try and cut waste first but they'll have to raise certain taxes, to repair the damage. The pot holes, the NHS waiting lists, the huge bill for immigration housing, rising costs across all sectors, the lack of healthcare workers, the dire state of our armed forces? Have you seen how bad that is? the RFA can barely put a ship to sea, there's no crew available!

Blair was also the last one to balance the budget. Ridiculous when we haven't had a fiscal conservative in The conservative party.

Labour already said in their manifesto how they'll end non done tax loophole like rishis wife uses and other tricks so thewealthh pay more tax.

Problem with this country is the people want good services but are in complete denial about the need for taxes to pay for them.

It's a good job the NHS got that extra 350m a week since Brexit! Lol.

 

[Craiglincs]

Mate that was before the credit crunch of 2008. I don’t think any government on their own can fix this. They might get a super majority and get things past. But tell me : when has Labour fixed red tape? It’s red tape that’s stifling growth and investment.

You’re right though about NHS etc. but there has been zero pledge for councils. Ah think Labour shall win, I might even vote them in too. But I think they are gonna open the door and instead of the tories seeing a note saying we are broke, they already know we are broke. Fresh legs and minds though can’t go wrong.

We are gonna have to increase tax! There is no doubt about that. But it won’t amount to much without growth in productivity and investment. You are right it’s clutching at straws about not having to increase tax and that being the bogey man.

What we have , which needs fixing is:

A terrible infrastructure
Kids in poverty
Families in poverty
Homelessness
Lack of affordable housing
Greedy landlords taking the piss
Education system underfunded

What they need is :
Rail links everywhere which are better
Better roads and better maintenance
More housing
More affordable housing

I’m not a politician, but that’s just some of what I reckon they need cross party support on though.

But aye , I can’t stand the fact that we have a situation where kids can’t afford school uniforms or food and parents on the breadline. Not because they are lay abouts etc. but because business can’t afford to pay more and prices are out of reach for people to afford. It’s not right man! Something has to give eh!

Probably back in '94 with pfi when labour last cut red tape. But as the ****** meltdown and the svb collapse showed reducing regulation isn't always a good thing.

Private landlords almost went extinct then thatchers polices have them a resurgence and now they are crying that the very centre left polices to control them is going to reduce the supply of housing(it won't)

What annoys me is we could have had a fantastic rejuvenation of our railways across the country for the cost of HS2 but no we have to get to London 20 mins faster and screw the countryside.

 

[NickGrogan]

Most importantly that was before 14 years of cuts in public spending, in every area

Public spending statistics: February 2024

www.gov.uk

Total public spending is up yearly; some sectors have increased dramatically since 2010.

Labour already said in their manifesto how they'll end non done tax loophole like rishis wife uses and other tricks so thewealthh pay more tax.

Problem with this country is the people want good services but are in complete denial about the need for taxes to pay for them.

More taxes for the rich (who already pay the most)?

Higher taxes, just not for you... hmmm

 

[Fagin2021]

Problem with this country is the people want good services but are in complete denial about the need for taxes to pay for them.

No - the problem is the huge amount of waste and incompetence that our taxes are squandered on.

Billions on failed IT and infrastructure projects (NHS, Track& Trace). Billions on vanity projects (HS2). Hundreds of millions and billions on 'political' projects (Rwanda). And I haven't even started on the Ministry of Defence.

 

[Craiglincs]

Public spending statistics: February 2024

www.gov.uk

Total public spending is up yearly; some sectors have increased dramatically since 2010.


More taxes for the rich (who already pay the most)?

They don't if they are non Doms. I'm taxed on any overseas income. They are not. I'd be fine with my taxes going up as well. We have a pretty low tax rate.

 

[Craiglincs]

No - the problem is the huge amount of waste and incompetence that our taxes are squandered on.

Billions on failed IT and infrastructure projects (NHS, Track& Trace). Billions on vanity projects (HS2). Hundreds of millions and billions on 'political' projects (Rwanda). And I haven't even started on the Ministry of Defence.

Ok that's a problem too. Thatcher's funeral was a massive waste of taxpayer's money.

 

[NickGrogan]

They don't if they are non Doms. I'm taxed on any overseas income. They are not. I'd be fine with my taxes going up as well. We have a pretty low tax rate.

Voluntary payments / donations to government

Find out how to make a voluntary contribution to government.

www.gov.uk

No need to wait. You can pay as much as you like.

You can even choose whether it is for general expenses or reducing the national debt.

 

[Craiglincs]

Voluntary payments / donations to government

Find out how to make a voluntary contribution to government.

www.gov.uk

No need to wait. You can pay as much as you like.

You can even choose whether it is for general expenses or reducing the national debt.

How do you know I haven't already?

 

[NickGrogan]

How do you know I haven't already?

Based on your posts, I'd say you haven't. Happy to be proved wrong, of course.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Stop borrowing as fast as you can. it's obscene the dept the governments since the 50's have built up, there is only so much debt you can borrow. Start reducing the debt rather than increasing it

opposition parties do not have be 180 degrees to the government on all things they can help the government on some things for the benefit of the country

One major area they could work together is sorting out the massive number of taxes making a simple tax everyone can understand and support, apparently we have the largest number of tax laws in the world for companies to understand and obey

 

[Craiglincs]

Based on your posts, I'd say you haven't. Happy to be proved wrong, of course.

I donate 10% of my income. As a result of being bought up with tithing but leaving the church. Admittedly I give it to things like friends of the local hospital rather than direct to the government. I did not know you could do that. But the hospitals get my money either way. I don't have an issue changing up how I send the money in the future.

Stop borrowing as fast as you can. it's obscene the dept the governments since the 50's have built up, there is only so much debt you can borrow. Start reducing the debt rather than increasing it

This 1000%. There is a poster near me that says vote Tory for lower taxes and better services I just want to scream but how will you pay for it. Tories should be the cut services to balance budget party and labour the raise taxes to balance the budget and let the people decide.

 

[IanSuth]

To all those saying "cut red tape"

I will ask the same question I always do

What piece of specific red tape would you do away with and how would it help you be more efficient/grow your business

 

[NickGrogan]

Simplify planning permission for grid-scale batteries and other green technologies.

The whole net zero thing doesn't work without storage, there are relatively few places you can easily and usefully place storage, but it still gets held up.

 

[Craiglincs]

Simplify planning permission for grid-scale batteries and other green technologies.

The whole net zero thing doesn't work without storage, there are relatively few places you can easily and usefully place storage, but it still gets held up.

It would make far more sense to store heat than energy. Joules brake wind turbines that produce heat directly and stoveovens would make sense for our climate but only solar panels are exempt.

 

[NickGrogan]

It would make far more sense to store heat than energy. Joules brake wind turbines that produce heat directly and stoveovens would make sense for our climate but only solar panels are exempt.

It really doesnt make sense and Joules brake wind turbines really don't work.