TripAdvisor allowing company to pass off as my agent

[canastahotel]

I have a page within TripAdvisor.com

They are allowing travelrepublic.co.uk to place a banner on that page inviting viewers to check my availability with them directly.

As I do not give ANY third party ANY allocation they automatically give the viewer a message stating "This hotel does not have any availability please check one of these..." (or words to that effect)

They are "passing off" as my agent. This is clearly unfair and dishonest (IMHO)

I have trademarked "Canasta Hotel Blackpool" which they use in their search term and page.

I have emailed tripadvisor and travelrepublic without response (frequently)
I have sent a letter recorded delivery to travelrepublic without response.

I dont want my listing removed trom tripadvisor...I simply want them to stop showing details of travelrepublic who are not my booking agent.

I don't have a pot of money to fight this. One internet lawyer wanted me to lodge £1500 and suggested his charges were £500 per hour. This kind of frightened me off a little.

Does anybody know of any lawyer who can help me for more reasonable costs?

 

[fisicx]

Why should trip advisor remove the banner? It's their site and they can do what ever they like.

I've just had a look at your page and can't see any banners for travelrepublic so maybe there is a rotation thing going on.

Did you know that if you search trip advisor for your hotel the top result is a really bad review...

 

[canastahotel]

Is this the sort of dumb reply I can expect from this site?

"Why should trip advisor remove the banner? It's their site and they can do what ever they like"

Really. So allowing somebody to pass off as my agent is legal?
When a viewer goes to that page there is a box at the top allowing them to "Check Availability and Rates"
I do not give anybody any allocation so they are passing off as my agent.
In so doing the viewer will ALWAYS get a message stating "this hotel has no availability" (or words to that effect)

Do you not agree that this is fraudulent?

I'm puzzled why you think they can do "whatever they like"

As to the reviews - this wasn't part of the question. I'm also puzzled why you think this has any relevance?

 

[fisicx]

Really. So allowing somebody to pass off as my agent is legal?

They are not passing off, they are just a service provide in the same way confused.com is a service provider. The only problem is that you are not in their database hence the lack of results.

It would be like me searching google for your hotel and seeing and advert offering cheap rates. It's not illegal as long as they don't pretend to be you (which they aren't).

I'm puzzled why you think they can do "whatever they like"

Because it their site and people pay lots of money to have their banners on display. The same way there are adverts all over this site and millions of other websites.

As to the reviews - this wasn't part of the question. I'm also puzzled why you think this has any relevance?

I know it wasn't but to find you on trip advisor I did a search and that's what I saw. It's going to put off potential visitors doing the same so you might want to have a think about how to mitigate the problem.

I understand your annoyance but this is how the internet works. You just have to accept that people buy databases and use them to build these sort of sites. If you have registered with any of the hotel review/listing sites then your data will be available for others to use in any way they like.

 

[canastahotel]

I disagree and think you are missing my point.

They are inviting viewers to check availability specifically for my hotel. When that viewer checks availability they will receive a message saying we don't have any availability for that hotel and then invite them to check for an alternative. I am receiving messages from REGULAR guests who perhaps are not savvy enough to come to my direct website saying that "we thought you were full"

If I am getting that from regular guests I know there will be lots who have not stayed with us before that are getting the same message that we are full - when perhaps if they had checked with us we would have had availability.

So I think they ARE passing off as my agent and cannot see why you do not agree.

Can I ask..do you have any legal experience?

"..you have to accept blah blah..."
Why?
Why do I have to accept that? It is harming my business.

I am merely asking for somebody with a legal background to offer some advice where I can seek paid help in sorting this as other methods have proved fruitless.

Perhaps I have come to the wrong forum

 

[Jenni384]

On the flip side - why can't you tell them your availability?

The way I see it, you are featured on TA and I expect the "check availability" function is on all TA Hotel pages (and it's a useful feature). Rather than them passing off as your agent, it appears (as a user of the TA website) that they are providing the "check availability" portal and if you want your availability to show on TA, you will need to give them the data. Does your TA membership doesn't give you the option to take off the check availability function, or to use your own?

I can't see any legal recourse here, but would be interested to know if there is any, as it does seem a bit unfair (at least, TA could have some kind of thing under the check availablility saying "we may not have data available for all hotels so do check their own website too").

 

[fisicx]

I do get your point and I'm sure that someone with legal background will be along to help soon however the banner itself is not illegal. There are many hotels on tripadvisor displaying the same banner.

They are not even acting as an agent, all they are doing is pulling data from a database. Because they don't have the necessary details in the database they are offerning an alternative. There is nothing illegal about this.

I could set up a website listing all the hotel in blackpool and when someone checks availability they get a 'unable to check availability' message a redirect to my hotel. I'm allowed to do this because it in my website.

Your beef is with travelrepublic not tripadvisor. Trip advisor are displaying a banner form a legitimate ABTA registered company who provide a service. But because travelrepublic don't have the necessary details to actually provide that service (ie your availability) so are offering visitors an alternative.

If I went directly to the travelrepublic site I would get exactly the same message. They list your hotel but can't check availability so offer the next best thing to their visitors.

This is how the internet works.

Why not just sign up with travelrepublic and the problem will go away.

 

[canastahotel]

Hi Jenni

No...the only way you can get featured in those "Check Availability" boxes is if you give one of those companies (booking.com, expedia.co.uk, travelrepublic.co.uk etc etc) allocation. They would then earn money by taking a commission. So for example if I was a hotel partner with booking.com they would also appear in a tick box inviting the viewer to check availability for me through booking.com as well.

We prefer not to deal through third party affiliate sites. We don't want to have to pay up to 45% commission to them. We do very well without having to rely on that kind of site.

No - there is no option to remove that. TripAdvisor mistakenly think that travelrepublic have allocation for us - they don't.

The "Check Availability" box only appears every two weeks or so. It is as though when they update their database they are getting false information - it disappears after a week or two but will alwys come back in a sort of four week on and two weeks off rota

Any people with a legal background offer some advice please?

 

[ald1]

If :
1. travel republic are purporting to offer your hotel on its site and
2. then stating that the hotel does not have availibility and
3. without stating that they are not an authorised agent of your hotel

then I can see some grounds for complaint against the site owner.

I have not seen the banner ad, but if the service offered (i.e. the ability to check availibility at your hotel) is not infact a service they are capable of providing then again it would be grounds for complaint and potentially legal proceedings if the advert is not changed. You may also want to consider a complaint to the Advertsing Standards Auhtority.

In terms of travel adviser, does your agreement with them not have some form of complaints procedure?

I'd be happy to have an initial chat with you if you can manage to screen shot the ad. PS I don't charge £500 an hour - who did you ask to help you, Clifford Chance?

Nick Scott
Alderson Legal.

 

[akirk]

If you have an issue:
- talk to the companies
- if they don't respond then sue them

however to come to a forum for free advice, receive balanced advice and then rip into those who respond is hardly to endear yourself to that forum! It isn't likely to make anyone give you more advice...

if you want legal advice I would suggest contacting a lawyer - it is probable that by having to pay them you will take their advice more seriously...

all the best

Alasdair

 

[canastahotel]

fisicx

please do not respond further - I require legal knowledge and advice.

 

[canastahotel]

If :
I'd be happy to have an initial chat with you if you can manage to screen shot the ad. PS I don't charge £500 an hour - who did you ask to help you, Clifford Chance?
Nick Scott
Alderson Legal.

Thanks Nick
I'll be in touch if I can find the PM feature on this site?

 

[canastahotel]

If :
I'd be happy to have an initial chat with you if you can manage to screen shot the ad. PS I don't charge £500 an hour - who did you ask to help you, Clifford Chance?

Nick Scott
Alderson Legal.

You have PM

 

[fisicx]

As I do not give ANY third party ANY allocation they automatically give the viewer a message stating "This hotel does not have any availability please check one of these..." (or words to that effect)

The actual words on the page are:

We have been unable to find any availability at the property you requested.

That's a whole different emphasis from stating there is no accomodation available.

As I said, the problem is not with TA all they are doing is displaying an advertising banner from a legitimate company. It's TR you need to be poking not TA.

 

[canastahotel]

The actual words on the page are:
As I said, the problem is not with TA all they are doing is displaying an advertising banner from a legitimate company. It's TR you need to be poking not TA.

TripAdvisor are the publisher and inviting viewers to check for availability with me when I do not give anybody any allocation.

Fisicx - please do not respond further. All I need is legal advice or recommendations for somebody who I can afford (rather than £500 per hour)

Whether you agree with my problem or not has no further relevance.

 

[canastahotel]

If you have an issue:
- talk to the companies
- if they don't respond then sue them

however to come to a forum for free advice, receive balanced advice and then rip into those who respond is hardly to endear yourself to that forum! It isn't likely to make anyone give you more advice...

if you want legal advice I would suggest contacting a lawyer - it is probable that by having to pay them you will take their advice more seriously...

all the best

Alasdair

Alasdair
Please re-read my original post
"Does anybody know of any lawyer who can help me for more reasonable costs?"

:|

 

[fisicx]

Sorry, but forums don't work that way.

TA are publishing adverts from legitimate companies. TA are not breaking any laws by displaying the advert. TA are not inviting visitors to check availability with TR, TR are making the offer via a paid for advert.

TA will not take down the advert, so it's not even worth asking. It's TR you need to be persuing and I'm not so sure you are going to get very far as I bet their legal team has got this one covered. I have seen this sort of thing many times and even persued a few but every time the outcome was 'tough, learn to live with it'.

 

[SteveDean]

Hi canastahotel, what a strange world we now live in, where it is easier to get in touch with people by posting something about them, somewhere on the web, and they pick it up via 'Google Alerts'!.

I would like to apologise for the lack of response to your more traditional forms of communication!

Let me explain ourselves. We are a travel agent offering the services of various accommodation providers. We advertise our agency services in various places on the web, including Trip Advisor.

We have your hotel on sale through a provider called Laterooms. I have checked and cant find any availability being returned for your hotel. I have asked Laterooms if they still offer your hotel, but if you can tell me if you are still on sale through them, then I can take the appropriate action to address your concerns.

Regards Steve
Commercial Manager
Travelrepublic

 

[canastahotel]

Result - ain't the internet great!!!

I just had a telephone call from Steve Dean from TravelRepublic who subscribes to Google alerts.

He has read the forum thread and has promised to sort the problem out. It seems he was STILL getting allocation from a downstream at LateRooms.com who we pulled out of 18 months ago.

He apologised about this and has agreed to make sure it doesn't happen again.

So I would like to thank the forum for giving me the opportunity to ask for advice. I'd like to thank Google for alerting travelrepublic to the problem when dozens of earlier emails went unanswered. Finally I'd like to thank you ALL for contributing to the thread to enable me to get my desired response without having to spend a penny on costly legal proceedings.

Result!!

 

[Charlie B ACS]

fisicx

please do not respond further - I require legal knowledge and advice.

Great result for you.

But bear in mind that whilst a number of us are not lawyers, we do have some Legal knowledge on our own subjects.

 

[akirk]

Alasdair
Please re-read my original post
"Does anybody know of any lawyer who can help me for more reasonable costs?"

:|

I am quite capable of reading

The point I was making was simply that I felt your approach to be steam-rollering over responses - you come as a new member to a community, don't bother to see how it works, put up a post - get some advice and then repeatedly tell people off for not giving you free legal advice - wrap it up as you wish, but that is how it comes across...

People on here give a lot of good advice free of charge, if you want to demand and tell people what to do then you need to at least pay them

it was a subtle hint that you might get more people responding if you weren't quite so forceful...

glad to hear that it has worked for you and all the best in your business

Alasdair

 

[fisicx]

Good to see you have got the results you require.

It still wasn't an issue with TA, the problem was with the feed used by TR. As I said all along there was nothing illegal about the advert or the service being offered, it was a data cleasing issue. Hopefully a warning to all that once data is in the public domain it can be sold on and used to detriment.

 

[ald1]

My quickest victory yet!
Alright so I can't take all the credit - but it does show how these issues are picked up by the search engines.

Nick Scott
Alderson Legal.

 

[canastahotel]

Fisicx. I still disagree with you. (and sorry to others who may be upset that I disagree - even if I am a noob to this forum)

The "Check Availability" box is wrapped around a form inviting viewers to check availability. Within that form are pictures of my hotel. It is clear to the viewer that they are offering them the chance to check availability for my hotel only.

So:
1) yes ...they are asking viewers to check availability for the Canasta Hotel. As such they ARE passing off as my agent.

2) They can offer no availability so will always offer an alternative instead.
So when a viewer likes the look of my hotel and sees the link thinking they can check availability with me they are getting false information in the results.

3) tripadvisor are the publisher - they have responsibilities to ensure information is accurate. If I find the information they portray about me is inaccurate and is costing my business money then I will have legal redress. My whole post was simply asking for further advice on whomto start with

Both TA and TR are to blame in my opinion.

Travelrepublic have agreed that the information should not be there and will be removing it.

Are you perpetuating this JUST for the extra "link juice"?

Nick Scott:

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Dear Nick

I have just been to the Tripadvisor site and agree with you 100%. It is very clear that TA are saying there is no availability at your hotel.

 

[canastahotel]

Dear Nick

I have just been to the Tripadvisor site and agree with you 100%. It is very clear that TA are saying there is no availability at your hotel.

Thanks Atmosbob

PS my name is Doug - the last post I was replying to Nick with a couple of smilies

 

[fisicx]

I now see what you mean and apologise. I didn't realise that you meant the TR box on the actual page. Please ignore all my previous comments.

Not doing it for the link juice either, forum sigs don't work that way.

 

[Deleted member 9840]

Hi Doug.

It's Steve, the A/C engineer. I thought I recognised your name.

Steve

 

[UKSBD]

I think it's despicable the way this happens

and saying it's just the way the internet is, doesn't make it any less despicable.

It seems to be a growing trend with directories too, they just buy in data, list businesses without even asking, optimise to appear for the business name in the hope the business owner will see it and upgrade.

The way that hotel site is doing it is one of the worst examples.

 

[canastahotel]

Hi Doug.

It's Steve, the A/C engineer. I thought I recognised your name.

Steve

Hi Steve

Nice to hear from you!!

If anybody wants any air conditioning installing I definitely can recommend Steve's services!!!

I am enjoying the complaints we are getting about it being too cold!!


Seriously ...I'm still very pleased with your service, product range and installation

regards
Doug

 

[Deleted member 9840]

Hi Steve

Nice to hear from you!!

If anybody wants any air conditioning installing I definitely can recommend Steve's services!!!

I am enjoying the complaints we are getting about it being too cold!!


Seriously ...I'm still very pleased with your service, product range and installation

regards
Doug

We really must get that service sorted out, it is long overdue...

We are working on that new sports centre/medical centre in Bispham at the moment and we're starting another job in Blackpool aswell on Friday week.

Blackpool is being really good to us at the moment.

Cheers

Steve

 

[canastahotel]

We are working on that new sports centre/medical centre in Bispham at the moment and we're starting another job in Blackpool aswell on Friday week.

Well done!!

 

[canastahotel]

Hi canastahotel, what a strange world we now live in, where it is easier to get in touch with people by posting something about them, somewhere on the web, and they pick it up via 'Google Alerts'!.

I would like to apologise for the lack of response to your more traditional forms of communication!

Let me explain ourselves. We are a travel agent offering the services of various accommodation providers. We advertise our agency services in various places on the web, including Trip Advisor.

We have your hotel on sale through a provider called Laterooms. I have checked and cant find any availability being returned for your hotel. I have asked Laterooms if they still offer your hotel, but if you can tell me if you are still on sale through them, then I can take the appropriate action to address your concerns.

Regards Steve
Commercial Manager
Travelrepublic

Hello Steve

Quite bizarre - this post was only added today :|
Yes - I pulled out of LateRooms about 18 months ago.

Anyway - thanks for taking the extra time to find my phone number and discussing the problem with me.

I see the feed for my business has now been removed.

Please disregard my letter you will be receiving today by Recorded Delivery.

Thanks for giving me your phone number should this occur again.

regards
Doug Smith

 

[kulture]

Thank you for posting the results here. It is always nice to see that a large organisation responds and it is especially nice to see them being complimented here. All too often this site just has bad news and never the good results.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

The scenario mentioned here is common on Tripadvisor. I don't have a link in English but the French courts are investigating the practice as a fraud case

 

[VeryMark]

Canasta, I looked at the page in question and couldn't see the banner you mentioned initially, but it seems it's being sorted now?

We can help (and not at £500 an hour!) if people have any concerns as regards passing off, but it's impossible to give proper legal advice without knowing all the facts in sufficient depth.

..... and have you thought about registering your hotel name as your trade mark? - it gives you a much more powerful weapon to use!