Tradesmen, why wont they quote?

[tony84]

Ive emailed 10 local tradesmen. Im buying a house and one of the external doors are rotten, the whole thing (door and frame) needs taking out and a new one putting in.

What information do they need?
An explanation of the above?
Size of the door way?
I would prefer a wooden door?
... I cant think of anything else, infact they dont even ask for anything else.

They all need to come out and have a look at a rotten door that will be ripped out anyway before quoting!

When pressed saying just a vague idea to save them wasting their time and fuel only 3 came back with quotes, 3 didnt reply and 4 still wouldnt give one.

If it was a big job fine, i could understand. But its not, its a door that needs fitting.

Its not difficult to say it will take a day or half a day and my hourly rate is £xx therefore it will cost approx £xx.

Rant over now.

 

[S-Marketing]

If you just email and dont want to commit to a visit they know from experience that you are going to be a time waster.

Sorry to be blunt, but you are giving all the signs of someone who wouldn't be worth bothering with.

 

[tony84]

Its their loss, and for the sake of a 5 minute email they could earn themselves maybe £300-500 going off the replies ive had.

The job HAS to be done, there is no choice in the matter and it will be the first job once i get the keys. The money is there ready and waiting.

If they think im a time waster thats their problem and so they have just lost a days work because of it.

 

[eog]

Its their loss, and for the sake of a 5 minute email they could earn themselves maybe £300-500 going off the replies ive had.

The job HAS to be done, there is no choice in the matter and it will be the first job once i get the keys. The money is there ready and waiting.

If they think im a time waster thats their problem and so they have just lost a days work because of it.

Just because you have to get the job done and will eventually pay someone to do it doesn't mean you won't be seen as a "time waster"

I think its the fact that its obvious you are looking for the cheapest quote and that they probably only have a 1 in 10 chance of getting the job, and a small job at that.

no offence intended, just an observation.

 

[maxine]

It's because you are buying the house and not actually in it yet or completed/exchanged. If trades responded to every quote request for buying a house they would spend too much time doing quotes and incurring costs and wasting time rather than working

And usually they have to come out and see it to quote properly otherwise there is the risk of under quoting for materials and labour (plus you could be a mystery shopper)

You could offer to pay for the quote?

 

[tony84]

They dont know they have a 1 in 10... its actually 1 in 3 now

Its a back door, im not going for the cheapest i want someone who can do the job and it be safe and secure - i live in Greater Manchester

If i had someone quoting me £100 and everyone else is £500 then it makes sense to get rid of the £100 quote because there must be a reason theyre so cheap.

I agree its not a big job, but its a few hundred quid for a days work. I suppose my point is all it takes is an email, its not costing them anything... worst case scenario they waste 5 minutes sending me an email best case scenario they get another job.

EDIT:
Its only a quote, im not asking for anything official. Just a vague price range. Im actually trying to save them time and money by doing it via email, theyre more than welcome to come down once i get the keys but i want to have someone in place to come down. Now that youve said its because im buying a house and not already the owner that makes a bit of sense.

 

[Matt1959]

Tradespeople are fickle and often not like businesspeople. Any trade can give a ball park figure by email. No price is fixed until actually seen ayway. How long does it take to email back with a rough cost? 5 minutes! Never write off any enquirer based on previous experiences. But If they don't need the work, they won't bother usually.

A minor point op... You emailed 10 people. Did you address any of them by name or was it a generic hi there. The former, you are showing an interest, the latter you come across as just gettig quotes...

 

[S-Marketing]

Its their loss, and for the sake of a 5 minute email they could earn themselves maybe £300-500 going off the replies ive had.

The job HAS to be done, there is no choice in the matter and it will be the first job once i get the keys. The money is there ready and waiting.

If they think im a time waster thats their problem and so they have just lost a days work because of it.

That is exactly the attitude I expected you to have.

Decent trades will have work coming out of their ears, so it really is no loss if they ignore you on a slim chance you may have a day's work for them.

I am not responding to cause offence. You asked why you are not getting responses from tradesmen.

 

[tony84]

Matt - Where it was obvious the owners name they were addressed yes. Where it wasnt it was more generic.... ie Joe Bloggs joinery it was address to Joe.

Stretchy - If theyve got work coming out of their ears thats fine, i fully understand - an email back would have been nice but thats life. I dont believe 7 out of the 10 are too busy to not take on a small job though. Im not offended, being in my family it takes a lot more than that.

 

[maxine]

Maybe this should have been posted in the Trades forum .. would you like me to move it?

 

[tony84]

Good point. I suppose that would make more sense to get replies from those who hate getting emails from people like me.

 

[Matt1959]

Maybe this should have been posted in the Trades forum .. would you like me to move it?

I wouldnt it's a good topic and loads more will reply here!

 

[DavidAshdown]

People like to kick tyres, open cupboards, feel things. Seeing is believing, like it or hate it, it's a fact of life.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Have you given all measurements, or just the measurements that you think they'll need?

The reason why I'm asking is because we constantly get people asking for security grilles or steel doors, they give us a measurement and expect us to be able to give them the quote there and then.

Majority of the time they'll give us a measurement, we'll ask them a question and they won't know the answer.

For instance have they measured the opening size, or the size of the door?

The answer is normally the size of the door, if we're installing a grille we need the measurements between the rebate of the door, so they'll come back and say for example 1500mm x 900mm OK sounds good, but have they measured the top and bottom to ensure that the door frame hasn't warped?

The company that you're ringing, know all of the possibilities and requirements that they need to ensure that they can give you a quote based upon what you need, not what you think you need, i.e. say for instance one of the companies that has given you the quotation over the phone or email gets the job... they come around new door, new frame in hand... its been made to your measurements... and it doesn't fit?! Who pays for that mistake? - You certainly wouldn't expect to pay nor want to pay, but you're the one that's given the requirements... if you're unable to allow for someone to take all requirements that they need to do the job right in the first place, how can you complain that people won't give you a quotation?

Say for instance, one of the companies gives you their quote, you take them up on their quote, they come down and measure up themselves, and find issues as they're going along, they have to re-quote based upon the issues that they were unaware of in the first place, and suddenly your quote has gone from £495 to £695 ... automatically you or anyone would think hey up... what's going on here then... cancel the job and try for another.

The amount of jobs that we don't get because people don't allow us to pay a visit to measure up is amazing... we could give the cheapest possible estimated quote ever for a grille, a shutter or steel door... yet as soon as we arrive on site and end up being a few hundred quid more the public think we're trying it on.

 

[Talay]

Have you sent a picture or a link to a youtube video ?

I'm not trades but I can see their argument. An email means you have put no effort into it and have probably spammed quite a few other tradesmen. They know their chance of getting the work is minimal and thus they will not devote much time to it. They also presume the lack of effort and means of quoting is indicative of someone wanting a rock bottom price.

They are thus faced with a job with no profit and every other chippie within an hour vying for the job.

I know where you are coming from but I can see their position and sometimes you have to sit in their chair to view how your approach could be perceived.

 

[Matt1959]

whats the real issue here? 1) the trades have enough work and dont want more unless its obviously lucrative or 2) the trades think that an email enquiry is a time waster so no reply??

If the latter, they are missing a trick. Its very possible to quote ball park figures for simple work off an emailed image and the OP was asking for that - not a firm quote.

An experienced trade should be able to give a ball park price for a low value job via email and that takes 5 minutes and no fuel cost. The alternative is to jump in the car,, drive for 45 minutes round trip, spend 30 minutes in the house trying to impress the customer.

Qualifying an enquiry by email cuts out all this time wasting so that when you do go see the job, the customer is 3/4 way to having you do it anyway (espeically as you're the only one who bothered to email back!)

if you dont want the work - a different matter I guess

Bigger jobs warrant a visit though....

PS be interesting to see a copy of the OPs email

 

[maxine]

Ah but if you quote by email you are selling on price alone

 

[Matt1959]

Ah but if you quote by email you are selling on price alone

no not at all - its a ballpark figure these people are asking so they cannot complain when there is a variation in the price. My point is that because most trades seemingly wont take this route, they are cancelling out the chance of the work.

Lots of different things to consider here...

1. Alot of private customers regard making email enquiries in this way normal.
2. Some customers dont want someone in their home selling to them
3. Some customers dont have the faintest idea of cost to start with so a ballpark price gives them that info
4. Some trades cant type or spell properly so wont email
5. some trades wont even read their emails

If I had had an email enquiry from the OP, I would have had no problem in emailing a rough price on recipt of a pic

If the email I had had rang alarm bells, I would still have replied as I have lost count of the number of customers I have written off as wasters and they have come good.

 

[mobyme]

Who in God's name tries to get ten quotes for a poxy door? If you are not buying on price what's the beef, go with one of the quotes you already have.

 

[Spearmint]

I was thinking the same as Mobyme. 3 quotes would be ample, but not 10

Most builders would prefer to be called by telephone and invited round to look at it if they are interested, and most avoid computers/email.

You also need to ensure that they are pricing for the same job. For instance
What type of door exactly wood, UPVC, steel.
Are the old locks and door furniture going to be reused and is that practical in the new door.
Will it be new locks?
Will it be 3 lever, 5 lever or other type of locks
What other furniture eg. letter box, house name plates, knockers, etc
Will it be a new frame. Will the frame need to be draughtproofed
All the builders/carpenters that you ask need to pricing for the same for it to be fair.

 

[tony84]

i emailed 10 because thats how many it took to get 3 quotes. Ive always read its worth getting a few quotes to see if someone is too cheap or expensive.

I didnt just find 10 people and email them all.

Good comment with the door being warped... im starting to get reasons now which makes it clearer to understand but its still just a door. I put in the second email that im after just a rough guide nothing that i will hold them to.

There were a few reasons i did it by email - im full time employed, run my own business on the side, im also buying a house. Email for me at the minute is convenient, if they think im time wasting then thats tere loss but it would have took 5-10 minutes out of their day where as a trip would have taken a lot longer.

Spearmint - I told them most of that in an email. Even so for a quote rough idea they could have said subject to.....

It sounds like im in the wrong but i still think a rough idea could have been given for any job. I spoke to my mate whos an electrician, hes not seen the house but to rewire hes given me a price between £1100-1300... a few nights out difference there but atleast i have an idea as to how much i need to set aside for that job.

 

[SELC Ltd]

A quote is legally binding for work done to specification. If every tradesman just took the customers word for it then they would they wouldn't be making much money. It is impossible to give a quote without first seeing the job, no matter how simple you may think it is.

In my experience as a tradesman, I have spoken to many customers who tell me over the phone how simple a job is only to turn up and find the true extent of the job and just how much they have underestimated it. I am not saying this is the case with you, but from the tradesman's point view this could well be true.

If it was me that you had emailed though, I would have replied with an estimate. But what's an estimate really worth anyway?

 

[The Panda]

I will not quote over the phone.
If someone rings me and asks for a telephone price they are just looking to get the cheapest, therefore a cheapskate or a competitor. A telephone quote is open to so many variables.
My time is precious to me and if I can be bothered to make an appointment to call and look at a job to give a proper quote then the customer should be as courteous by not insulting me by asking for a telephone quote.
Try ringing Currys and asking how much are there TVs?
Or Bedland and asking how much are their beds?
Someone once told me that for every ten people that ring for a telephone quote you are lucky if 1 comes back and to try a test. I did try a test. A man rang me with a list of 7 blinds and proceeded to reel them off and for each one my reply was £5. I did not get any reaction and the guy just said "I will get back to you if we want to order".
I can honestly say that if someone asks me for a quote on the phone I can barely be bothered to answer them. Its not that I am pushy when I go out or anything like that, far from it. Just that if I can go out of my way to show them what I can do I expect to not be insulted by being asked how much over the phone. Questions not answered over the phone,
How long in cm not inches as many customers measure in.
How wide?
What colour?
What type of blind?
Vein width?
Is the area suitable for that blind?
And so on, questions I can answer inside my head when there without even mentioning it to customers.
For instance. A lady rang me and asked for a quote on 7 roller blinds for a conservatory. My usual half hearted reply was we dont do telephone quotes and she was one of the rare ones that said OK to a call out.
Turns out one of the rollers would have been 3 cm wide and far too small to be made hence the change of plan to verticals.
2 others had quoted her over the phone without even seeing the job.
Now I am not just doing that to get the order. I dont work like that. I do it because I am professional in what I do and feel insulted if people ask me for a cheap quote over the phone.

 

[andygambles]

I am looking to get a loft conversion done. Called 15 tradesman. Only 3 had 'enough time' to come and quote. They measured up and went away to quote.

No response after a month. Call them up. 2 have lost the measurements but not sure if they can come back to remeasure the third says he is too busy to do the job anyway.

If they are all too busy when do they have time to win work?

 

[The Panda]

I am looking to get a loft conversion done. Called 15 tradesman. Only 3 had 'enough time' to come and quote. They measured up and went away to quote.

No response after a month. Call them up. 2 have lost the measurements but not sure if they can come back to remeasure the third says he is too busy to do the job anyway.

If they are all too busy when do they have time to win work?

This sounds like a not straight forward job and no one wants it without saying so. Or you just happen to have picked on quite a few cowboys in the business. During the present climate cowboy companies are rife in all types of work. Painting, decorating, gardening, plumbing, blinds and yes, loft conversions.

 

[maxine]

I am looking to get a loft conversion done. Called 15 tradesman. Only 3 had 'enough time' to come and quote. They measured up and went away to quote.

No response after a month. Call them up. 2 have lost the measurements but not sure if they can come back to remeasure the third says he is too busy to do the job anyway.

If they are all too busy when do they have time to win work?

I'm surprised at that as trades are falling over themselves for Loft Conversions Well.. they are round our way at least.

 

[raineshoe]

I am looking to get a loft conversion done. Called 15 tradesman. Only 3 had 'enough time' to come and quote. They measured up and went away to quote.

No response after a month. Call them up. 2 have lost the measurements but not sure if they can come back to remeasure the third says he is too busy to do the job anyway.

If they are all too busy when do they have time to win work?

We had similar. I hate having to get anyone in because its always the same. They either arrange to come and quote and don't turn up or turn up and quote and then never send the quote to me. How can you run a business like that? All I think though is I'll won't be recommending you or asking you ever again ie you reap what you sow and the market may not be always so easy to find work in the future!

Have to say though we have one chap who does our heating/plumbing etc and he is excellent. If you call he always gets back to you and will always turn up when he says and if he can't he rings to let you know. There are a few decent people out there.

 

[maxine]

The thing about quoting for work such as loft conversion is that there will be several trades involved ... general builder, carpenter, electrician, plastering, plumbing, decorating.

This type of quote can be difficult if you have to get quotes from all the subbies.

Ideally the main contractor will know pretty much what their subbies rates are from past experience and make an educated guess with their bit on top of course but there is that nagging doubt that they won't have priced properly for their subbies work and will want to wait for them to come back and OK their bit.

If they quote too high they will lose the work, if they quote too low they will be out of pocket for the work depending on their subbie quotes so usually need to be a bit careful and it can take time

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

I was thinking the same as Mobyme. 3 quotes would be ample, but not 10

Most builders would prefer to be called by telephone and invited round to look at it if they are interested, and most avoid computers/email.

You also need to ensure that they are pricing for the same job. For instance
What type of door exactly wood, UPVC, steel.
Are the old locks and door furniture going to be reused and is that practical in the new door.
Will it be new locks?
Will it be 3 lever, 5 lever or other type of locks
What other furniture eg. letter box, house name plates, knockers, etc
Will it be a new frame. Will the frame need to be draughtproofed
All the builders/carpenters that you ask need to pricing for the same for it to be fair.

Generally speaking, if someone is having a new door, the quote will 99% of the time always include replacement/new locks unless specified.

3 Lever locks are not BS standard, therefore for an external door is not allowed for insurance purposes, however there are some guys out there that just stick in any old tat, the amount of times we've been out to site and been given the "but they're new locks" cry for help when they've failed is astronomical... as soon as we point out that they're wrong, they tend to go all crazy on my Engineer, having a go about this that and the other, threatening to sue the original company that installed and so forth.

We offer a totally free security audit and advice over the phone with no obligation.

 

[Vectis]

Going back to the OP, I'd think at least a part of the problem is that you haven't actually bought the house yet. I expect, like me, many of them are wondering why you need a quote - or even a ball park figure - for the work right now. You seem to already be expecting the price to be around £300 - £500, what else do you need? You can't commission the work yet and even if you do buy the property they will still need to come round and give a firm quote.

I can't see what the problem is? You have three ball park figures. How many do you need?

 

[Websitehandyman]

Go to your local supermarket and get an handyman off their ads board, it's an easy job as they can go to B&Q and buy a door in a frame ram a few screws in and job done most times.

 

[mobyme]

The thing about quoting for work such as loft conversion is that there will be several trades involved ... general builder, carpenter, electrician, plastering, plumbing, decorating.

This type of quote can be difficult if you have to get quotes from all the subbies.

Ideally the main contractor will know pretty much what their subbies rates are from past experience and make an educated guess with their bit on top of course but there is that nagging doubt that they won't have priced properly for their subbies work and will want to wait for them to come back and OK their bit.

If they quote too high they will lose the work, if they quote too low they will be out of pocket for the work depending on their subbie quotes so usually need to be a bit careful and it can take time

A lot of the time prospects come across as either dreamers or cheapskates who are picking your brains and there is no intention of providing a quote but rather than telling the prospect this they take the non confrontational stance of saying they will put a quote in the post.

It makes me laugh when people expect you to drop everything to provide them with a quote yet are reluctant to make themselves available during working hours because that would mean that they are inconvenienced or it would cost them money to be there.

Preparing a quote for anything takes time and effort and after a while you get a nose for the time wasters or those who are buying on price and when I come across people like this I tell them to put down everything they want pricing in writing with a specification; it never happens.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

I never 'competitive quote' on demand...

Had a guy e-mail me from a regular advert placed in the local paper that said all he needed to know to inspire him to make contact. Quality, Brand Names, Speedy Service, No Rubbish Guarantee, Keen prices.

He e-mailed me and 24 other companies 'How much for...?' Nothing else, just how much....and as I didn't respond he mailed again whereupon I asked him if he'd considered the fact that he was wasting the time of 23 people for a job worth around £70 and if he was factoring it into the price he was willing to pay.

I didn't get the job.

 

[CKG]

Most tradesmen have an instinctive ******** protection field (probably without even knowing it) - some jobs get through and some don't. Some good jobs are probably lost and some bad jobs probably slip through.

You just bounced off a few peoples ******** protection fields. That is all.

No reflection on the job or you.

 

[andygambles]

This sounds like a not straight forward job and no one wants it without saying so. Or you just happen to have picked on quite a few cowboys in the business. During the present climate cowboy companies are rife in all types of work. Painting, decorating, gardening, plumbing, blinds and yes, loft conversions.

If they were not interested why spend over an hour in my loft measuring it up and moving insulation around to check what was in place and what needed moving?

Wasting their own time and not just mine.

 

[maxine]

If they were not interested why spend over an hour in my loft measuring it up and moving insulation around to check what was in place and what needed moving?

Wasting their own time and not just mine.

It might have been too big or too complex for them. It's much easier to just not go back with a quote than to admit you are not confident about doing the work

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Hi Andy,

Are you certain that they measured up, and didn't just pull out some insulation had a look at the flooring and think... oh no...

Banging about upstairs in the loft while you're sat having a cup of tea doesn't mean that's what they actually did.

I remember our engineer telling us the story of a job in Manchester that he knew of, where the Locksmith of a large corporate company attended to open a safe only to discover that they'd not been using the correct method of opening the safe with it's lock, so spent 8 hours in the basement of the property "working" away racking up a massive bill for the company, for him to open it up as per normal and show them that he'd "fixed" it.

One reason why we won't attend sites without knowing what we're coming into especially with safe work. - Imagine the looks on people's faces when I offer them the chance of watching my engineer open their safe with a potato... I have actually had one person ask me "What's a potato?" - No really... she did!

 

[andygambles]

Hi Andy,

Are you certain that they measured up, and didn't just pull out some insulation had a look at the flooring and think... oh no...

Banging about upstairs in the loft while you're sat having a cup of tea doesn't mean that's what they actually did.

No I was there while they measured. Answered lots of questions about what I wanted it to look like etc they made suggestions about materials and I agreed/disagreed etc.

To clarify I didn't want a full conversion (I should have said) just raising joists and decent boarding so it could be used for storage.

 

[Mick.H]

Email enquiries are seen as low quality to many, including myself. Generally, people in search of work they need doing on their property who email are time-wasters. This is not me being funny, it is my experience. Out of hundreds of emails we receive from people regarding domestic works we are lucky if one is worth bothering to reply to. I leave the email forms and such on the site as a net to catch the time-wasters. Calling someone to discuss your needs is far more productive than sitting and emailing. People never include enough information, spell words incorrectly, and often come across as odd balls that you'd rather stay clear of than work for.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

No I was there while they measured. Answered lots of questions about what I wanted it to look like etc they made suggestions about materials and I agreed/disagreed etc.

To clarify I didn't want a full conversion (I should have said) just raising joists and decent boarding so it could be used for storage.

Ahh, perhaps it wasn't in "their" best interests to do half a job, whether it's all you wanted or not? - Perhaps they saw it as a waste of your time by doing the work only for you to have to modify at a later date? it is possible that they're doing you the favour here...

Personally, I don't have a clue as to why they've not got back to you... I'm just throwing a possibility here n there, I mean say for instance he'd come back and said right Mr G, you're looking at £5,000 for the work, you go ahead only to find that it would have only cost £7,000 for a fully fledged conversion... your thoughts would probably have been what a rip off... their thoughts could have been, we should have told him...

Know what I mean?