The SEO Truth

[Tw Installations]

[FONT=Verdana, arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ok Guys, [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hope you can shed some light on this for me. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]With SEO there seems to be so much grey area and so many different view points.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]From a business owners point of view its a mine field and very confusing to know exactly who to trust.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]My Questions?[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A couple of very honest Seo guys have told me that they would work on my site, charge me a fee for a few months and once we achieved our targets of top 3 positions of page 1 and a decent page rank, that would be it. We could call it a day for a while - for perhaps a year, 2 years maybe more. After a year or two we could maybe do some more work to give it a lift again.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Very Honest - and if this is true they why do companies continually charge every month regardless of position and how long they have been seo-ing your site?[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I know its perhaps not the best business model but if this is true would it not be more ethical to give people a price for getting them to their chosen positions and then maybe charge them them a reduced fee for maintaining it once they are there? Even if the price was an over estimated price on getting them to no1 ( I know the seo guys are going to say its how long is a peice of string and bombard me tons of reasons as to why you cant do this - but surely a [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]good[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] seo would be able to give some guidelines that would be fairly accurate - would it not be better for the client and more ethical?[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Also, I read a lot of seo posts on here and there seems to be a lot of experts.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]My Question.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Is there any business owners on these forums that have had some actual success stories with seo guys from the ukbf?[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Has anybody, anybody, anybody? used an seo from these forums and had an amazing result? able to back it up?[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I am not looking for any BAD feedback - thats unfair - just a recommendation from other business owners that have had some good results ( Ie not seo's recomending each other)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ps, I dont know much about the seo's on here and slightly off topic - but I would highly reccomend [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Steve Gibson[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] from these Forums for Adwords, Web Copy, Newspaper ads all things Marketing.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Steve, Is always there to answer my ideas, give advice and he is able to back it up with statistics that eliminates any grey area.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Any Seo's out there with the same ethics?[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I like to hear recomendations if anybody has any[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tommy[/FONT]
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[MASSEY]

Its not the best sales pitch. The bit about "we can get you a high page rank" seems to be included in the pitch.

You dont care about your tool bar page rank, you only care about being as high on page one as you can be.

I also dont see why you would have to leave it for a while and come back to it.

If your going to do it you might aswell get it done first time.

 

[david64]

[FONT=Verdana, arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]would work on my site, charge me a fee for a few months and once we achieved our targets ... After a year or two we could maybe do some more work to give it a lift again.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Hi Tommy,

I think this is how the majority of SEOs work. Once you are ranking, you are ranking. You would only slip down if Google change something and your site drops, the SEO has something holding your site up there, your competitors get more links or you get punted off. It depends on what your niche is. Most niches will only require the one-off work and maybe more 1,2 + years down the line. Its only terms like insurance, gambling and other heavy hitters that you will need constant SEO; in the case of the aforementioned terms comes in the form of paid link wars.

So, what they have suggested sounds very much what I would expect.

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[FONT=Verdana, arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]if this is true they why do companies continually charge every month regardless of position and how long they have been seo-ing your site?[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Each case would have to be judged on its merits. As mentioned above, if a term is v. competitive, they have to pay each month. Another scenario is that the SEO could be fleecing the client for doing nothing. One thing you see is people charging say £25 a month to rank someone for [{keyword} in {town}] and other really easy keywords. This involves next to no work and there is no on-going work.
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[FONT=Verdana, arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I know its perhaps not the best business model but if this is true would it not be more ethical to give people a price for getting them to their chosen positions and then maybe charge them them a reduced fee for maintaining it once they are there?[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

As mentioned, there is usually no need for short-term maintenance. As for only charging on results, this is for the lower end of the market. The market sets its own prices and with the high-end going up to about $1,200 / hour for SEOs, why would people do free work if they can get paid an hourly rate? And, I am not talking about equity SEO if Sir Earl is reading

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[FONT=Verdana, arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]but surely a [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]good[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] seo would be able to give some guidelines that would be fairly accurate - would it not be better for the client and more ethical?[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
SEOs want to get paid. If its going to take 6 months of work to get you ranking, they don't want to wait 6 months to get their money, by which time you may have gone bankrupt. If that was how SEO was done, it would be a lot less appealing.

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[FONT=Verdana, arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Also, I read a lot of seo posts on here and there seems to be a lot of experts.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

*crickets chirp*

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[FONT=Verdana, arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Is there any business owners on these forums that have had some actual success stories with seo guys from the ukbf?[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

I am[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] a former client-side SEO, so I've not hired anyone, but my recommendations of guys of here are as follows:

http://www.britecorp.co.uk/
http://www.hobo-web.co.uk/
http://www.redevolution.com/

That is based on reviewing their work.

I wrote this as advice for people looking for an SEO:

[/FONT]http://semlabs.co.uk/seo-help

As you mentioned in your opener there are different views as to how SEO should be done. That article aims to set out those different views and give the pros and cons of each. Before hiring someone it is important to make sure you understand the different approaches to some degree so you know what you are getting.

 

[bdw]

Very Honest - and if this is true they why do companies continually charge every month regardless of position and how long they have been seo-ing your site?

Quite often because they want guaranteed income every month and the more people they can sign up on this model the more they get. This means they can sit on their @rses and collect the filthy lucre.

I would say that you should never sign up on a monthly contract with any company unless they outline in detail what they are doing for you and provide you with an intelligible monthly report on this.

 

[Probafix]

Links matter most
This was Google's innovation, and it remains the driving force. This doesn't mean that site design, content tagging, keywords, etc. don't matter - but a site that gets lots of links can overcome most shortcomings in other SEO elements. Publishing 2.0 has never been "search optimized", which means I'm probably leaving search traffic on the table, but I've got tons of links, a PageRank of 6 and lots of search traffic. I write stuff that people often link to, and I'll bet that matters more than anything else.
http://publishing2.com/2007/02/08/the-truth-about-seo/#ixzz115mdSePg​

 

[Giggleberries]

I have been running my ecommerce site for a few years now, have had a lot of cowboys contact me to promise me a position on google and in the early days I have had my fingers burnt, but that is all part and parcel of thelearning process.

Consequently, I have done all of my SEO and Internet Marketing myself.

There are a few things to point out.

1. It is important to understand that with SEO, you also need to do Internet Marketing in order to benefit from your SEO. SEO and Internet Marketing are two different things. SEO is what you do 'on site' to your web pages, and Internet Marketing is what you do 'off site' (i.e link building) to get those search engine optimised pages ranked well.

2. No one and I mean absolutely no one (even google) can guarantee or predict you a search engine rank position for any keyword. Trust me on that.

3. In order of priority you need to a) do some good keyword research, b) carry out 'on site' SEO and then 3) employ and Internet Marketing strategy (i.e link building). There is no point optimising your web pages (SEO) if you do not know what the most suitable keywords are that you wish to market you pages in relation to. Once you know your keywords, then optimise your pages for them.

4. Invest in getting someone to do your keyword research for you if you are not entirely confident yourself. It is worth it as this is the foundation of your business and website. It is a bit like laying the foundations of a house, you would not even think about laying foundations (i.e onsite SEO) until you have prepared the ground (i.e keyword research) and you would not consider building on the foundations (internet marketing - link building) until the foundations are in place.

Google "mens underwear" to note my SERP as this is proof that you can achieve it yourself.

I would recommend reading up as much as you can to understand how to do keyword research, best SEO practices and link building techniques. Also, you should be able to get on free workshops via your local chamber of commerce or business link etc...

Once you have the knowledge you will know who to trust. You can do some yourself and/or conttract others to do other bits if you are too busy.

Hope this helps

 

[directmarketingadvice]

Any Seo's out there with the same ethics?

Ray Field (known as "Tin" on here) has done SEO work for a couple of my clients and gotten very good results for them.

He's a straightforward guy and very white hat in his SEO.

As for why some SEOs "need" to keep working on the SEO, I think some of them are doing it for the reasons bdw suggested and some do it because their links quickly lose value and need to be replaced.

Steve

PS Thanks for the kind things you said aboutme.

 

[UKSBD]

[FONT=Verdana, arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Very Honest - and if this is true they why do companies continually charge every month regardless of position and how long they have been seo-ing your site?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tommy[/FONT]
[/FONT]

Because for some reason a lot of people think, if they have got some free time to ring and ask a few questions, the other person at the end of the phone has got free time too.

If a monthly retainer isn't being charged, every time the phone is answered the clock should start (with minimum charge segments).

Which would you prefer?

 

[david64]

As for why some SEOs "need" to keep working on the SEO, I think some of them are doing it for the reasons bdw suggested and some do it because their links quickly lose value and need to be replaced.

This is definitely true, but sites with apparently good links are not necessarily safer either. If you are in a niche and you are ranking off pretty legit links, you may find that some affiliates or SEOs pump up sites on a load of garbage that knock you off.

However, I find that the most common cause of change in rankings is when Google has a big re-jig. When that happens you can either benefit or loose out - sometimes quite dramatically. And IMO, link quality doesn't really seem to be the winner. At the moment, at least it seems to be something completely different:

http://searchengineland.com/google-searchs-vince-change-google-says-not-brand-push-16803

 

[I, Brian]

As for why some SEOs "need" to keep working on the SEO, I think some of them are doing it for the reasons bdw suggested and some do it because their links quickly lose value and need to be replaced.

In a best case scenario, a SEO campaign will need to be ongoing because of the dual threats of continued competition and updates from Google.

Many experienced SEO's remember the days when Google would update monthly, and any particular month could result in a major change in how search listings were ordered.

Additionally, in many areas competitors are very actively link buying so stopping a campaign can see results start to drop. The big problem here is that campaigns run with momentum - slow to start, slow to drop. Which means if you leave it a year, it means it can be hard to regain that momentum.

Also, a range of strategies need to be engaged to ensure the campaign foundations are as strong as possible, and as resistant as possible to major changes on Google. This can be extremely time-consuming and cannot be done over night, so needs to be realistically set over the long term.

Of course, if a business is after easy longtail phrases, there's not really much work probably needs doing - but link building itself rarely results in one-off costs.

Unfortunately, because the retainer model is common, a lot of dodgy companies try and tap into it - especially rewarding if they are doing no work. Hence one of the more recent internet-based business gravy trains for scam artists.

 

[Big Pete]

I think it depends on the keywords very competitive keywords need ongoing tweaks a few off site blogs etc to keep ahead of the others who no doubt are doing the same ..

so monthly is logical in them cases ..

on the other side of the coin a lot of sites just need a damn good shake up.. when thats done they hold there own ,,so monthly would not be required.

sites like .. hotel shidiginnninin in Bradford specialising in disabled fat disabled people etc would be probably 1 days on site work and it would top every search engine for . fat disabled accomodation in Bradford.
for ever ...

 

[Tw Installations]

I think it depends on the keywords very competitive keywords need ongoing tweaks a few off site blogs etc to keep ahead of the others who no doubt are doing the same ..

so monthly is logical in them cases ..

on the other side of the coin a lot of sites just need a damn good shake up.. when thats done they hold there own ,,so monthly would not be required.

sites like .. hotel shidiginnninin in Bradford specialising in disabled fat disabled people etc would be probably 1 days on site work and it would top every search engine for . fat disabled accomodation in Bradford.
for ever ...

Laugh out loud

 

[headshotlondon]

[FONT=Verdana, arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ok Guys, [/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]My Question.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Is there any business owners on these forums that have had some actual success stories with seo guys from the ukbf?[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Has anybody, anybody, anybody? used an seo from these forums and had an amazing result? able to back it up?[/FONT]
[/FONT]

Noone actually answred your questions here I think SEO requires a lot of manpower and focused SEO strategy for better results. Otherewise you will spend years doing it and maybe then you will get onto the second page That would depend on the keyword and competition, of caurse. Plus so many other factors on the top.

<<<Edited >>>

Hope that helps. Let me know if you need any more information and I ll try to help.

 

[Probafix]

Truth is the key for a top quality professional outsourced or even in house seo arrangement for handling the online affairs of your business website.

 

[Mystro]

I have used some one from these forums with a degree of success (ill health forced a early retirement) targeting a very competative industry, and how does a six month old site measure that ?

Using some one from this site may or may not suit you, I just started with a new company and my rankings just plumetted , was that their fault or did Google change somthing ?

My point is who ever i get on with you may not, my expectations could be realistic some are not.

Its easy for me to jump up and down and ask why im now on page 2 for a keyword, when 10 days ago i was number 1 in Google but the knowledge i have learnt from this forum alone answered that to a degree

you will need to know enough about the industry to make your own conclusions, to see if you need ongoing like my car site, or just a one off for my security site which is localised,

I know its not answered your question fully, but i would let around 8-10 people on here have a go at my site with no worrys about their ability.

Another good thing to look into would be a profit share, some offer this some wont touch it, but if you have a good enough business model, its only in the Seo interest to get you the best results

Paul

 

[MASSEY]

Im actually going to make a similar site offering kitchen fitting an supply. Hopefully it will compete with brand names The terms are not that hard to achieve for local, but i think kitchens is going to be more ppc focused with well written copy The profit margins are large ppc in my opinion will be a better option than tryin to seo for hundreds of terms.

 

[Tin]

For the attention of members, some posts in this thread have been edited!

 

[ukbf0001]

Do you know the keywords you want to target ? - are they realistic for a newsite (M&S didnt go from Marketstall to Global overnight - and neither will Google allow it - without smelling a rat)

Are you selling to retail or trade, Obviously page1 matters if it's retail not so much so if it's wholesale.

Although onsite SEO matters , offsite SEO is still the main work area - that's why usually a retainer / per month charge is charged. If you leave for 6 months or more then eventually you'll slide down the rankings.

If you can - why not get an SEO who thinks you'll be a success (as in convert clicks to sales) and offer them a percentage of turnover - if you can afford it.

Just because you are page1 google - wont guarantee sales if your site is not very useable.

Re the retainer if Google all of a sudden decide that they are going to start penalising over use of image tags for example - then your site will need to be changed. You need someone to keep on top of all this