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Taking the plunge - hiring staff - scared!

Discussion in 'Employment & HR' started by intelligentppc, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:18 PM.

  1. intelligentppc

    intelligentppc UKBF Regular Free Member

    218 56
    So after 10 years of self employment running an online marketing business, finally I've taken the plunge, done what people have told me to avoid all these years, and sorted an office, and put out a job ad.

    I have no prior experience of this. To be frank, it terrifies me - getting anything wrong from an HR point of view and things like that.

    Already I've had an applicant who by the CV is not suitable, and I'm wondering if I let them down gently will they be suing me for ageism/sexism/whateverism...?

    Paranoid I know but having heard from so many that hiring staff can be an absolute nightmare, I'm so wary.

    Are there any pitfalls I need to watch out for? Eg hidden costs that I may not be considering.

    Thanks in advance,
     
    Posted: Aug 10, 2018 at 1:18 PM By: intelligentppc Member since: Feb 10, 2014
    #1
  2. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    9,306 2,366
    If someone is not suitable because they are not a good match for the person specification, then just tell them. If your person specification states that you are only looking for young women aged between 18 and 24, and you cannot justify that requirement with reference to the job, you would have a problem
     
    Posted: Aug 10, 2018 at 1:21 PM By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #2
  3. atmosbob

    atmosbob UKBF Ace Free Member

    3,260 723
    In my experience job ads are more trouble than they are worth. My best applicants have been found by asking around.
     
    Posted: Aug 10, 2018 at 1:53 PM By: atmosbob Member since: Oct 26, 2009
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  4. Anon377593

    Anon377593 Guest

    0 0
    You don't need to give a specific reason to the candidate. It's acceptable to send them an email saying 'thanks for applying, on this occasion I won't be progressing your application'. You're not obliged to say or do anything more.

    I would however be clear in my own mind as to why I'm not employing them, and if it's purely because they are female/Chinese/over 50 (and there is no valid reason for applying this filter) then you might want to rethink your approach to recruitment.
     
    Posted: Aug 10, 2018 at 2:12 PM By: Anon377593 Member since: Jan 1, 1970
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  5. Anon377593

    Anon377593 Guest

    0 0
    Oh, and in terms of hidden costs, if you're paying by the hour, then factor in the tax/NI etc! I've seen a few small employers take on an employee for e.g. "£8.75 an hour" and then end up having cross words on payday when the employee was expecting 8.75 x 35 hours to be the gross amount, but the employer had assumed they'd do the usual deductions. The employee was then left feeling like they'd shortchanged themselves and it didn't make for a great start to the working relationship. Sounds a bit obvious, but make sure you're clear that it's XXX minus tax.
     
    Posted: Aug 10, 2018 at 2:18 PM By: Anon377593 Member since: Jan 1, 1970
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  6. Cube Digital

    Cube Digital UKBF Newcomer Full Member

    16 5
    I don't know about the HR of hiring.

    But, the most important aspect of hiring is getting your processes right. My first few hires were duds - not because of the people that I hired, but I simply did not have written internal job processes.

    I guess from your username you do mainly PPC - I am main SEO. It is time consuming, but well worth it to take the time and write out exactly what you want them to do and how you want it done - be as detailed as you can be.

    I found that by doing this I could sub-contract parts and concentrate on the important.

    Best of luck - it changes your whole view of agency work.
     
    Posted: Aug 10, 2018 at 3:27 PM By: Cube Digital Member since: Aug 9, 2018
    #6
  7. Inva

    Inva UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    26 2
    Depending on the job at hand, if you can get away with hiring young people and teach them the way you work, i believe that would work best if you are just starting. Costs less and you have more control, disadvantage is that they don't know anything so will not be productive for a while, also they may leave after some time so make sure you sign a contract for at least 2 years with right to terminate from your side.

    Regarding reasoning why someone was not hired, in my company, we are in eastern Europe btw, we don't give explanations (guess we're not the only ones). Hundreds of people may apply for a job, imagine if you had to explain "why" to everyone. No, we only respond to the ones who were accepted. You are entitled to hire whomever you want.

    Now i don't know how it goes over there but i believe it makes sense that the same should apply.
     
    Posted: Aug 12, 2018 at 3:05 PM By: Inva Member since: Aug 10, 2018
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  8. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    9,306 2,366
    That's a good idea. Unfortunately it is completely unenforceable in law. Requiring that they work for you for 2 years, without the option to leave would be seen as slavery, even if they got paid a decent wage!
     
    Posted: Aug 12, 2018 at 3:26 PM By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
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  9. Gecko001

    Gecko001 UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

    2,570 401
    I would not overlook simply things like the applicant's ability to get to work. If they have to travel say 10 miles and have no car with the result they have to take three buses to get to work, they might not be a stayer. Also do not be too ambitious with the quality of staff you get even if you do have a thorough recruitment process. Unless it is a very basic manual job requiring few skills, be prepared for getting maybe one good one out of every two or three you hire.
     
    Posted: Aug 12, 2018 at 4:44 PM By: Gecko001 Member since: Apr 21, 2011
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  10. Inva

    Inva UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    26 2
    I don't believe that is true. This is what contracts are for. Why can't football players just leave their teams whenever they like then? The contract period represents your investment in this staff member. What about some companies which pay for qualifications for their staff? Of course they tie them up for a period, otherwise they could just get the qualification and run away :)
     
    Posted: Aug 12, 2018 at 7:58 PM By: Inva Member since: Aug 10, 2018
    #10
  11. Anon377593

    Anon377593 Guest

    0 0
    It is correct. You cannot force an employee to stay in a job.

    Football contracts work slightly differently, though in reality it's hard to get a player to stay if they want to leave. (I actually wrote a dissertation about this a few years ago, so if you're that interested PM me and I'll explain.)

    When you pay for staff qualifications you usually ensure they sign an agreement in advance, stating that if they leave within a year of accruing the qual they pay back 100% of the cost, within 18 months, 50% of it and so on. The overall point being that you cannot force someone to stay in a job if they don't want to.
     
    Posted: Aug 12, 2018 at 8:07 PM By: Anon377593 Member since: Jan 1, 1970
    #11
  12. Phil Meekin

    Phil Meekin UKBF Contributor Full Member

    47 8
    Hi,
    Have you considered employing an apprentice? These days they are not just school leavers wanting to train as bricklayers or carpenters (- no disrespect to those skilled craftsmen), they cover all types of employment, come in a variety of ages, are supervised as they train and from experience are generally eager to please. They are also subsidised and there are agencies which help filter the applicants. Google "taking on an apprentice" and look at the government web site. Good luck!
    Phil
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018 at 9:45 AM
    Posted: Aug 13, 2018 at 9:23 AM By: Phil Meekin Member since: Apr 10, 2018
    #12
  13. Seb de Lemos

    Seb de Lemos UKBF Contributor Free Member

    84 14
    You don't even need to reply to a job application if you don't want to (though it's courteous to if they've made an effort in their application).

    In general, don't stress about employment - it's a two-way street where both parties are getting something they want, and your employee is likely to be much more worried about the situation than you are. Just be open and honest with your new employee. Give them a probation period (say, 3 months) that they need to pass, and frame it to them like 'this is for both of us, to work out if we are a good fit together'. You should know within three months if it's going to work - and be quick to make the call if it isn't working out.

    If the employee passes probation, you still have a two year period (inclusive of the probation period) to end their employment without the ability for the ex-employee to claim unfair dismissal. However, if you want to end the employment of a staff member outside of that initial probation period, and you haven't got experience, that's the point imo at which you should get outside HR help.
     
    Posted: Aug 13, 2018 at 9:42 AM By: Seb de Lemos Member since: Oct 8, 2008
    #13
  14. Seb de Lemos

    Seb de Lemos UKBF Contributor Free Member

    84 14
    While I have seen 'minimum time periods' in permanent employment contracts before, I think they are completely unenforceable (as, as said above, it smells like slavery)

    In theory you could possibly have a '24 month notice period', but, even if that is legal, I'm not sure any court would side with the employer if an employee just walked out.
     
    Posted: Aug 13, 2018 at 9:49 AM By: Seb de Lemos Member since: Oct 8, 2008
    #14
  15. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    9,306 2,366
    While I agree with the rest of your post, the point to get outside HR help is when writing the job offer letter and terms of service. Getting those right at the beginning is important
     
    Posted: Aug 13, 2018 at 10:06 AM By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
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  16. Chris Ashdown

    Chris Ashdown UKBF Legend Free Member

    9,410 1,910
    My advice is

    Type up a full job description of what you expect the person to do including hours of work and overtime if required

    Find out if they are really interested in the job, ask them what you do is always a good start, the number of people applying for a job at my company when asked have you seen our website stated no, which proved to me they just wanted a job and not that interested

    Explain fully the Pay, if there is a probationary period and their expected future (note probationary period is not worth anything as you can fire at any time up to two years unless discrimination etc, without even giving a reason)

    Go into W H smiths and buy a book starting a company , which will have a large section on hiring people

    You need to consider they are entitled to holidays and holiday pay

    Whatever you do don't forget to give them a contract, I think in first 30 days but could be wrong, and make sure the contract covers all your requirements , suggest you forward to one of the HR people on the forum or elsewhere to check its all legal and covers all the basics ( a small price to pay to be safe)
     
    Posted: Aug 13, 2018 at 11:04 AM By: Chris Ashdown Member since: Dec 7, 2003
    #16
  17. intelligentppc

    intelligentppc UKBF Regular Free Member

    218 56
    Thanks for all the advice so far, some really useful stuff here.

    Hypothetically, what if I hired a woman who became pregnant within a few months of working for us. Would I then be obliged to pay maternity pay while they didn’t work? As this could and probably would be catastrophic to our small business.
     
    Posted: Aug 14, 2018 at 12:25 AM By: intelligentppc Member since: Feb 10, 2014
    #17
  18. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    9,306 2,366
    Depending on the dates, yes, but you recover the full cost from the government.

    You could employ a man who develops a disability the week after you take him on and cannot work. You will have to pay him SSP, which you can't recover from the government.
     
    Posted: Aug 14, 2018 at 12:35 AM By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #18
  19. intelligentppc

    intelligentppc UKBF Regular Free Member

    218 56
    Thanks - why does it depend on the dates?
     
    Posted: Aug 14, 2018 at 8:59 AM By: intelligentppc Member since: Feb 10, 2014
    #19
  20. BustersDogs

    BustersDogs UKBF Ace Free Member

    1,249 228
    Be brave and take the plunge. Best thing I ever did. Second best thing was go back to being a solo worker 7 years later. ;) But that's because I underestimated how much admin I would be doing, and it was a waste of my skills and training to be doing 4 hours of admin every day instead of bringing in money. I will eventually take staff back on, but I'll have a virtual assistant next time.
     
    Posted: Aug 14, 2018 at 9:40 AM By: BustersDogs Member since: Jun 7, 2011
    #20