Suspended for gross misconduct

Discussion in 'Employment & HR' started by Sean23, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. Sean23

    Sean23 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    19 1
    Hello! Need some advice if anyone can help be appreciated! So currently suspended for gross mis-conduct for not following a procedure which I wasn’t even aware was a procedure as had no training relating to it. Anyways, I clocked myself into work @23 via the computer instead of @2 as must’ve mid-clicked was very ill this day with evidence to prove this.

    However during investigation the evidence wasn’t analysed properly and when he said you clocked in @Eleven I assumed ‘11’ and said I must’ve misclicked and intended to put ‘1’ as this was my intended time to come in that day.. Trying to make sense of it all at the time as to why I’d type in ‘11’ long story short he went onto agree with me.. Not correcting at this point it’s @23 so he asked questions as to why would you clock yourself in @1 if you wasn’t in store till 2. So the whole investigation went forward with as to why I would clock myself in @1. However if he corrected me and said @23 with the evidence sat in front of him I could of said clearly I put @23 instead of @2 easy mid-click...

    Can they re-investigate me or go by this? I didn’t realise till I got home cleared my head and then realised it says @23 on the paperwork.

    They’ve basically screwed up this investigation... that I could potentially be losing my job for this week!

    Alongside this when I reached work all the evidence and CCTV was left on the desk with no-one around, surely this should be locked away? If I felt I was guilty of anything I could of got rid of the evidence...

    Alongside this my job role was posted up online a couple of weeks before this event, they was aware of the situation before the job role went up but haven't suspended me as of yet as was on parental leave.

    All the answers I gave during investigation they further investigated getting more fact finding but some of the answers may not of matched up as I was trying to justify why I clocked in @1 so was trying to find out a reason.. All along I did intend to clock in @2 and if the individual said @23 I would of said this and the investigation would of taken a different route possibly in no further action.

    Is it breach of data protection/confidentiality leaving all the evidence on a desk for anyone to view? Let alone disregard if I did do something wrong.

    Feel I’ve done nothing wrong intentionally, they put it down to fraud but I didn’t gain anything additional hours by the end of the week! This was all just a mis type on keyboard now can loose my job :,( Just over five years at company with no wrong-doing, I never approved the amended timecard I merely put it on there to make someone aware that I was in that day as wasn’t usual senior manager in as was on holiday.

    The written statement by the manager who flagged it up I feel is invalid. He asked me what time I started work when he saw me and I said ‘1ish’ he then proceeded to check timecards later in the day and saw it said @23 so he flagged it up.. Now if he was doing timecards surely he would ask for a more pacific time than @1ish.. that could mean 1:15, 1:30, 1:45... I told him I intended to get in at 1ish but my train was late and didn’t get in till 2..

    So stressed that I’m going to loose my job! I wasn’t even aware I couldn’t put my own timecard on the system never received training about this... And I’ve only done it once in five years as my senior manager wasn’t in and I wanted whoever was doing timecards to be aware I was in as wasn’t scheduled hours.

    What’s my chances of this being thrown out or re-investigated if they see that they did in-fact make out is was @11 and didn't correct me throughout.

    Any responses I’d appreciate it as I’m not in a union so representing myself !
     
    Posted: Oct 7, 2019 By: Sean23 Member since: Oct 7, 2019
    #1
  2. fisicx

    fisicx It's Major Clanger! Staff Member

    30,937 9,071
    I've read it twice and still confused.

    Clocking in usually means using some sort of automated system they registers the time in and out.

    You seem to be describing a self monitoring system where you enter the time into a computer. If this is the case why didn't you check before submitting (it's your responsibility to do so).

    And there are times of 1, 2, 11 and 23 none of which make any sense. Are you saying you got to work at 2pm but entered 23 on the keypad (11pm) when you should have been at work at 1pm? And if you did arrive at 2pm why did you say 1ish?
     
    Posted: Oct 7, 2019 By: fisicx Member since: Sep 12, 2006
    #2
  3. Sean23

    Sean23 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    19 1
    Hey, so I clocked in @23:00PM via the computer however suppose to do this manually but I added it on the system. However didn’t arrive at work till 2:00AM (During the night) So Miss-typed 23 instead of 2. So my company thinks I’m trying to fraud hours however both statements said I got to work at ‘1ish’ so surely if I was trying to fraud hours I would of told them both I got in at 23:00PM Hope this makes sense :)
     
    Posted: Oct 7, 2019 By: Sean23 Member since: Oct 7, 2019
    #3
  4. Sean23

    Sean23 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    19 1
    However the individual investigating said I clocked in @Eleven so I thought ‘11’.. He should have corrected me and said @23 so the investigation went the wrong way, understand where I’m coming from?
     
    Posted: Oct 7, 2019 By: Sean23 Member since: Oct 7, 2019
    #4
  5. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    16,753 1,871
    Yeah, I'd say 11 too.
    Don't know anyone outside the military that would use the term 23 and they'd be precise, 23 hundred hours.

    If he knew he meant 11 at night and you thought he meant 11 day is that his fault? Or yours?
     
    Posted: Oct 7, 2019 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #5
  6. Sean23

    Sean23 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    19 1
    Maybe further explaining.. The evidence (On paper) Says @23! So if he tells me Eleven and I say maybe I’ve miss-typed and put a double ‘1’ why wouldn’t he correct me and say @23.. Therefor I couldn’t of put in double ‘1’.. Probably doesn’t make sense without the paper in front of you :)
     
    Posted: Oct 7, 2019 By: Sean23 Member since: Oct 7, 2019
    #6
  7. fisicx

    fisicx It's Major Clanger! Staff Member

    30,937 9,071
    @Mr D is right, nothing makes sense here.

    @23 is not 11 or even close to 2am.

    Does the document say ‘@23’ - exactly like this? Because if it does it confuses everyone. It should say 11pm or 23:00. @23 is meaningless.
     
    Posted: Oct 7, 2019 By: fisicx Member since: Sep 12, 2006
    #7
  8. Sean23

    Sean23 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    19 1
    23:00 so basically in short I’ve miss typed instead of putting 2:00.
     
    Posted: Oct 7, 2019 By: Sean23 Member since: Oct 7, 2019
    #8
  9. fisicx

    fisicx It's Major Clanger! Staff Member

    30,937 9,071
    So why didn’t you correct it before saving?

    Or report the error?
     
    Posted: Oct 7, 2019 By: fisicx Member since: Sep 12, 2006
    #9
  10. Sean23

    Sean23 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    19 1
    So I handed over in the morning that I got in @2:00 however the managers statement says I said ‘1ish’ which At least confirms I didn’t say @23:00 so surely if I was trying to fraud them out of hours I wouldn’t of said this no? & I didn’t actually confirm the hours you have to right click a little clock to confirm the hours I never did so I wouldn’t of spotted my mistake :eek:
     
    Posted: Oct 7, 2019 By: Sean23 Member since: Oct 7, 2019
    #10
  11. Mr D

    Mr D UKBF Legend Free Member

    16,753 1,871
    And if you were to try and defraud them, you'd presumably also not click a little clock?

    It comes across badly, though to be honest the time keeping method appears to be badly designed.
     
    Posted: Oct 7, 2019 By: Mr D Member since: Feb 12, 2017
    #11
  12. Sean23

    Sean23 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    19 1
    It is and potentially can be dismissed this week just had a little boy with the misses, fair bit of stress don’t feel I’ve done anything knowingly wrong and if they said 11PM I would’ve said I’ve put ‘2’ instead of ‘23’ didn’t realise my mistake as I was really unwell and didn’t think to double check (Have proof I was ill re texts from that day I was pouring with sweat & vomiting) been working there over five years and never had any issues and get on well, perform well etc. But feel this can go south for me.. I never gained any additional hours from this mistake so really fingers crossing.. Does anyone know if they can re-investigate once one has already taken place?
     
    Posted: Oct 7, 2019 By: Sean23 Member since: Oct 7, 2019
    #12
  13. Sean23

    Sean23 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    19 1
    If anyone else reads this and can answer a question for me I’d appreciate it. The evidence for my investigation was left on a office table, door left latched open anyone could of seen this.. So witness statements involving my name, CCTV footage of myself etc. (This door is suppose to be kept locked if rooms unoccupied as confidential files in there) Just feel people would’ve been nosy and read the statements etc left on the table .. Is this something to bring up?
     
    Posted: Oct 7, 2019 By: Sean23 Member since: Oct 7, 2019
    #13
  14. JeffreyMills

    JeffreyMills UKBF Contributor Free Member

    51 21
    No.
    Someone leaving it lying around is poor, but has no bearing on your case.
    You need to stick to explaining that you rarely enter the time and you think you made a mistake.
    You need to stop “blaming” the interviewer for not saying 23.
    Proving that everyone else was at fault is not a defence for YOU being at fault
     
    Posted: Oct 7, 2019 By: JeffreyMills Member since: Sep 29, 2018
    #14
  15. Sean23

    Sean23 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    19 1
    Granted however if I was to be dismissed then they've breached confidentiality/data protection as leaving my personal stuff lying around for all to see?
    The interviewer not analysing the evidence properly and not correcting a mistake does make a MASSIVE impact to the whole investigation, as he then proceeded to ask further questions due to the mistake he made asking as to why I would clock myself in at '1'...

    End of the investigation he said, 'I whole heartedly agree that I don't believe this to be fraudulent in anyway, however you have lied to your senior manager and there's further questions/answers that need to be solved. Surely if he agrees he doesn't view it as fraudulent then why suspend me? I pose no risk to the business... Proving that others aren't following process and giving mis-leading evidence is my case, if he didn't make the mistake of saying '11' and I gave the true version of events that night having known the 'correct' evidence I may not of been suspended..
     
    Posted: Oct 7, 2019 By: Sean23 Member since: Oct 7, 2019
    #15
  16. Sean23

    Sean23 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    19 1
    I spoke with citizens advice today, they are in full agreeance that my details shouldn't of been left on a desk in an open office for anyone's viewing and gave me contact information for an employment tribunal based on the pictures I have to prove it was left on the desk.
    With my job being posted online before I was suspended but the event took place I feel they've already made a pre-determined decision and this would also be unfair
     
    Posted: Oct 7, 2019 By: Sean23 Member since: Oct 7, 2019
    #16
  17. JeffreyMills

    JeffreyMills UKBF Contributor Free Member

    51 21
    Anyone can lodge a claim with a tribunal, the details from Citizens Advice, is referring you to ACAS which is the starting point.
    You should certainly speak to ACAS for advice around whether procedurally the interviewer was at fault, the whole investigation should be restarted, or the data breach (which you have not indicated has caused you any detriment) has any real bearing on the process you are in. I imagine they will not agree that the process is unfair.
    The correct recourse for a data breach is the Information Commissioner’s Office.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
    Posted: Oct 8, 2019 By: JeffreyMills Member since: Sep 29, 2018
    #17
  18. JeffreyMills

    JeffreyMills UKBF Contributor Free Member

    51 21
    So, some time after 2 your manager asked you what time you started. You said 1ish. Or that you meant to get in at 1 but the train was late so you got in at 2. And when your time card was checked you had put 23/11.

    When interviewed and asked why you said you started at eleven, you were confused by the question even though you had that paperwork which said 23.

    What time were you supposed to start?
     
    Posted: Oct 8, 2019 By: JeffreyMills Member since: Sep 29, 2018
    #18
  19. Sean23

    Sean23 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    19 1
    I appreciate the advice, obviously I'm somewhat clueless around this only using the internet and asking for the advice. I didn't have a exact start time wasn't even due in turned up during the night to support as my other manager messaged me, then the morning manager asked what time I got in which apparently I responded with '1ish' is what it says in his statement. However I got in at 2AM. But it does atleast clear up that I didn't respond with 11PM, if I in anyway was trying to fraud hours that say I would've responded saying 11PM surely they must see it this way. But only time will tell was suppose to have the meeting Wednesday but they postponed it due to further fact finding, then was suppose to be on Friday but now they've asked for it to be on the Saturday. Ten days is such a long time to wait stressing as to whether you have a job or not. Leaving the evidence on the table just wasn't best impressed as anyone could have viewed it and potentially did, then the gossiping begins was just concerned that's all. I have got all my fingers crossed that they see it as a mis-understanding and jut going to get in with the right attitude rather than accusing them back of xyz. Will update the outcome, struggling to sleep and keep my mind off it really sucks want it over and done with :)
     
    Posted: Oct 8, 2019 By: Sean23 Member since: Oct 7, 2019
    #19
  20. Sean23

    Sean23 UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    19 1
    And just to summarise I was hoping to get in at 1:00AM however didn't reach the store till 2:00AM, this was due to train being late however I had no pacific start time. I quickly logged onto the computer and put '23:00PM' - 7:00AM' as the time I had worked however never right clicked and approved it, only put it there so the dayshift manager was aware that I came in and the time. However, I've obviously accidently pressed '23' instead of '2' and because I was very unwell sweating to death and vomiting I obviously didn't even process this as didn't pay much attention just clicked enter (evidence shown to prove I was sick), shut down the computer and headed downstairs. After that in the morning the dayshift manager was surprised to see me in and asked what time I got in, with my response apparently being '1ish' then when he checked timecards later on in the day saw it say '23:00PM' instead of texting/calling to confirm what hours I did that night he just flagged it up as fraud to my senior manager. Potentially to gain brownie points... Now I worked the rest of the week, then went on four weeks shared parental leave, upon my return that day I received a letter in the post inviting me to an investigation meeting. Then it went from there really... All my defence can be at this point is clearly a mistake, if I was intending to fraud hours my response to the dayshift manager would have been 11PM. Knowing full well he is signing off my timecard, they may also try discipline me for clocking myself in via the system rather than manually. My defence on this is that not received any training regarding this and I've not manually clocked in for over a year as my senior manager does it all himself and has never prompted me too..
     
    Posted: Oct 8, 2019 By: Sean23 Member since: Oct 7, 2019
    #20