Setting up an internet business

Discussion in 'IT & Internet' started by jumpingstan, Aug 7, 2009.

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  1. jumpingstan

    jumpingstan UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Thanks for this, I think I see what you mean by this, so I would pay a company to host this for me, and coaches would pay to download it? Can you talk me through the key points of the process please?
     
    Posted: Aug 13, 2009 By: jumpingstan Member since: Aug 7, 2009
  2. oldeagleeye

    oldeagleeye UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Now you have accused me of being overly critical Stan. I was not but nevertheless I am going to help you out here which will save you a great deal of time but first however some bad news that you will not like.

    After all the advice. After trying I am sure quite hard to fit this in with your venture it seems that you have come a long way after almost 100 costs - or have you.

    All this on-line sharing diaries and files or updating training diaries etc. - etc. and what seems to be getting a few members excited - namely access by mobile phone. Sorry buddy it is already out there. It all started over 3 years ago with basic Personal Information Managers (PIM's) the along came companies like Mamut who added more and more features like accountancy software. The buzz word for these PIM's today is 'cloud computing' and there are major players galore offering both personal & business editions.

    BT offer a free on line diary as do Humyo and many others. They have built in CRM. Event Organizers and all can be customised and accessed (With password) by any computer using any operating system. By any mobile phone with an Internet connection.

    Developing your own application would then be a complete and utter waste of time.

    Now for the good news which could solve all your problems in one fell swoop. The free and very low cost versions of these cloud computing services aside there is money to be made if you are convinced coaches would sign up to your content and that is to do a deal with an existing company.

    CC is a highly competitive market and the players in it will inevitable be looking for strategic partners and at all levels. I can across one a few months back that were charging something like £24 a year for user for the standard version.

    I reckon that a customised version providing the content was right could attract around £49.95 a year.

    Now don't get too excited Stan. Do a bit of research on a more practical level. List the features that you plan to incorporate even if the logistics are not in place yet and then ask the coaches you know if they would pay £1 quid a week to use the service.

    You say that there are some 230,000 paid coaches. If just 1 in 10 said yes they fork out would pull in some £1.150,000 a year.

    That is an awful lot of spondolix with which to work out a deal. I have to go out now but I will PM you with the name of that company so that you can download the software. If is not suitable there are hundreds of others which could be adapted. Just do a Google search.

    Robert

    * Blimey that bottle of claret last night must have been really mellow for me to be this sweet natured at this time in the morning and could it be that on the 100th post our Stan has hit the jackpot.
     
    Posted: Aug 13, 2009 By: oldeagleeye Member since: Jul 16, 2008
  3. Chunkford

    Chunkford UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Great idea!
     
    Posted: Aug 13, 2009 By: Chunkford Member since: Nov 24, 2008
  4. jumpingstan

    jumpingstan UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    :)

    Just wondering how I would go about this?
     
    Posted: Aug 13, 2009 By: jumpingstan Member since: Aug 7, 2009
  5. oldeagleeye

    oldeagleeye UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    OK but lets establish a few basics first. The main reason I said this project wouldn't work is that it requires an awful lot of work and you simply do not have the money and what is more you thought it easy to get a bank loan. I can understand why when any illiterate teenager can get a 25K student loan on the basis of a place a university and they have lowered standards enormously. This however is government policy and a quirk in the banking industry from times gone by when every graduate was virtually guaranteed a highly paid job.

    As far as the banks providing funding for start-ups there is none. What's more it seems that you have already tried the only possible source for young entrepreneurs - the Prince's Trust.

    To sum up so far then. Without funding this project is dead in the water. This is why I suggested the 'strategic partner' route. Now that description varies enormously. At the outer level is the affiliate who simply adds a link to their web site and receives a commission form the software provider from each customer passed on - usually about 10% but it can vary. You might want to write that typical number down however as it may help in negotiations later

    Moving more to the core comes the "reseller". Under this scheme you buy a licence for each end user. In your case I think this is unsuitable for 3 reasons. 1) is that the software will carry the software providers own branding and not yours. 2) It will only be the basic application and coaches would have to customise the software themselves and we are not just talking personalise here. The basic software may not have all the modules (features) that you require. 3) Each coach would in effect have a standalone application - but I come to that in a minute.

    The next option is a possibility worth considering. It is called 'own branding' You take the basic software add your own extra features and top it all off with your own branding. This would allow you to offer a truly 'cloud' solution with say a public open feature - newsletters about the latest nutritional products - group email etc etc. Each coach would then have their own private mini PIM within. Some pages for purely private notes. Others for individual training programmes. Others shared by the coaches own customers. In fact whatever content you want to provide.

    Now to the nitty gritty. You would have to pay a licence fee for each coach but the real advantages of own branding are that not only will you get 2nd level support but you can set your own end user costs. Lets go back to that example I mentioned earlier then.

    That particular company were charging £24 a year per customer. Even if you didn't enjoy a discount you could double that price and make a 100% profit. Given the scenario I presented earlier that would works out at over £500,000 a year.

    Before you start jumping up and down with joy however lets look at what is missing out of all this. 2 things. The first might be relatively easy to overcome and that is why should the company provide you with your own branding.

    Your reply of course would be that you will be passing on volume business and that alas is the real crunch of the matter - marketing. If it were me then I would go straight for the jugular.

    Get yourself armed with numbers showing actual need -sales forecasts & potential income etc and make an appointment to see the MD and make a full blown but simple power point type presentation. To protect yourself and your idea leave out the specific content. Just list the yype of feature or modules and you will have to do that because you will want the software company to design these and they will be able to easily so don't think anything is too complicated.

    All that leaves is the Dragons Den bit. How much equity are you prepared to surrender to get the venture up and running. I'll give you some help. It would cost that company or any other less than £20K to add your modules to their software. You would also want them to help with marketing so round it all up to £50K. They will be look at looking at a ROI of £100K for it to be worth a punt.

    I do repeat however. This is if you can do a deal with an existing cloud computing service provider. I very much doubt your get a private investor.

    Then again who knows now that the ole eagle eye has shown you the way forward.:D
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2009
    Posted: Aug 13, 2009 By: oldeagleeye Member since: Jul 16, 2008
  6. jumpingstan

    jumpingstan UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Hi guys,

    So this is where I am at. I now have a clear business idea. The idea is for a website that will also by accessible on mobile devices (I'm not sure how best this could be done, either as a cloud or as an app, I don't understand too much about how these work, so any info would help me). Being able to access the site on the move would make it very accesible and efficient and improve communication.

    I have started to write a business plan for the idea and put together some projections

    I have identified the target market and done some market research, however I could do with help on this as the only people I have spoke to about the idea already know me and I don't know whether they aare being 100% honest!

    I have quotes for how much it would cost to set up the website etc


    I think in order for me to go further with this I do need a business partner as I hve expertise in the sports industry and not in web design, business etc

    If there is anyone out there who would like to get involved in the project please get in touch. Any other advice etc please keep posting!
     
    Posted: Aug 14, 2009 By: jumpingstan Member since: Aug 7, 2009
  7. oldeagleeye

    oldeagleeye UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Stan how much have you be quoted for the web site. PM me if you don't want to disclose openly. Robert
     
    Posted: Aug 14, 2009 By: oldeagleeye Member since: Jul 16, 2008
  8. Peter Bowen

    Peter Bowen UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

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    Posted: Aug 14, 2009 By: Peter Bowen Member since: Jul 2, 2007
  9. oldeagleeye

    oldeagleeye UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Peter that is a great site with some great kit and I am sure other members may find it useful but unfortunately the OP doesnt seem to have a clue about anything IT.

    He will need to outsource everything and he simply doesn't have the money to do that. Whats more I can't see any investor putting up money when the Stan can't bring any other proven managment skills to the table either. The only option I see is to try to convice an existing software company that there is a market out there and do a deal.

    After all 51% of a properly funded and managed business that could be up and running quickly is a hell of a lot more that 100% of nothing.

    Regards Robert
     
    Posted: Aug 14, 2009 By: oldeagleeye Member since: Jul 16, 2008
  10. oldeagleeye

    oldeagleeye UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Stan you really don't appear to be able to get your head around all this because after all the posts - after all the advice you come up with this.

    So this is where I am at. I now have a clear business idea. The idea is for a web site that will also by accessible on mobile devices (I'm not sure how best this could be done, either as a cloud or as an app, I don't understand too much about how these work, so any info would help me). Being able to access the site on the move would make it very accessible and efficient and improve communication.

    You really are lost aren't you. Providing access to your - lets call it Task Management System is not a separate 'application' the TMS on the cloud is the application.

    I have started to write a business plan for the idea and put together some projections
    I have identified the target market and done some market research, however I could do with help on this as the only people I have spoke to about the idea already know me and I don't know whether they are being 100% honest!


    How can you put together a business plan and projections when as I think most of us suspected all you had done is ask a few friends what they thought of your idea. At best they would have been kind and nodded in agreement but they could not have evaluated what's on offer seriously anyway because even you have only a vague idea of the features that will finally be on offer.

    As for asking for help with market research Stan. Come on now we don't mind helping with advice but you seem to want us to put the whole business together for you. You really must put more effort in yourself. After all your into sports and coaching. Think. Can you get names & addresses from coaches from an association or web site. Then a cheap e-mail survey may be possible. Personally I would get off my bum and go around the sports facilities and talk to coaches.

    I have quotes for how much it would cost to set up the web site etc

    Have you told the designer what this would entail. I doubt it. You have only just discovered that mobile access would be a useful feature. Have you written down and listed all the features that you want to incorporate. How many sections. How many password protected directories. How muh GB storage - I doubt it. The fact is it would take a great deal of work to turn a basic CMS based web site into one with all the features that you want. Whatever you were quoted then I would times by 10.

    I doubt too that you have even considered support and you will need a damned good tech savvy support team if you are to service say 4,000 coaches and 40,000 sportsmen. As I have said before Stan you are way out of your depth even on the basics.

    I think in order for me to go further with this I do need a business partner as I hve expertise in the sports industry and not in web design, business etc

    Finally the penny has dropped and we have gone a complete full circle. You don't have any money yourself. The banks are not going to lend you any money. I guarantee a private investor is not going to lend you any money because you can't bring anything to the table besides an idea. No management skills. No IT skills. Who then is going to run this business. The investor wouldn't want too and they would certainly not put up £100,000 extra for a management team so you can sit on your backside all day.

    I gave you the answer to all this. Play around with a few trials of existing task management cloud software/applications while doing your market research. If the numbers stack up contact a couple of these companies and tell them that you can deliver a valuable niche market by adding a few features to their software.

    They will do all the technical work. They will provide the hosting and support and some help with marketing too. All your job would entail then is pulling the business in and you would only need a basic brochure web site for that.

    I say all your job would entail is pulling in the business - oh yea gods. What are we letting ourselves in for yet more advice:eek:
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2009
    Posted: Aug 14, 2009 By: oldeagleeye Member since: Jul 16, 2008
  11. jumpingstan

    jumpingstan UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Dont worry, I'm just going to leave it. I've had enough to be honest
     
    Posted: Aug 14, 2009 By: jumpingstan Member since: Aug 7, 2009
  12. oldeagleeye

    oldeagleeye UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    WHAT made you decide that you wanted to give up after all the time & trouble members have gone to help you.

    Was it my suggesting that you ought to get up off your arse and do some real research yourself. I would change your members name if I were you because NO_ONE is ever going to take you seriously again.

    W[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
    Posted: Aug 14, 2009 By: oldeagleeye Member since: Jul 16, 2008
  13. jumpingstan

    jumpingstan UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    No not at all, I have spent 2 months trying to plan the idea, before I came on to this forum. Then I came on here and have spent everyday solidly working on getting the idea together. I have the idea, I believe it could work, I know how to market it, I know who to market it to. I have contacts in the sports world who I could use to promote it. I have spoke to numerous designers, I spent last night putting together a business plan. I ask questions for reassurance and guidance because I am doing this alone with no experience and people on here have experience. The idea moves forwards and then I keep getting repeatedly shot down, I thought this forum was about help, advice etc.

    As you have told me repeatedly I have no finance to start the business up so what am I supposed to do, keep plugging away for nothing?
     
    Posted: Aug 14, 2009 By: jumpingstan Member since: Aug 7, 2009
  14. Peter Bowen

    Peter Bowen UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

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    You can build a web based application like what you want to do for a few hundred pounds. It will be the first version and it will be rough but that will be good enough to sell to establish the market. You sell 100 subscriptions to this and use the income to build the next version

    Don't give up, just start small.
     
    Posted: Aug 14, 2009 By: Peter Bowen Member since: Jul 2, 2007
  15. jumpingstan

    jumpingstan UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    That is the problem I have looked into this and I don't think I could start it small as in order to have the software etc in place that is going to cost quite a lot and I have tried getting quotes for a cheaper version and there is nothing comin in at under £1,000!! here is a similar site to what I would require...

    http://trainingroom.taketothestreets.org/apps/gtrainer/default.aspx
     
    Posted: Aug 14, 2009 By: jumpingstan Member since: Aug 7, 2009
  16. thedesigntailor

    thedesigntailor UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    Don;t worry about Old Eagle Eye - He's just a grumpy old man :p
     
    Posted: Aug 14, 2009 By: thedesigntailor Member since: Apr 30, 2008
  17. jumpingstan

    jumpingstan UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    I did send you a PM asking advice on how I would go about getting a deal with an existing software company as I know little about them, but you didnt reply
     
    Posted: Aug 14, 2009 By: jumpingstan Member since: Aug 7, 2009
  18. Chris Ashdown

    Chris Ashdown UKBF Legend Free Member

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    You do it the way 99% of us did

    Start at home with hard work, start small and get the plan settled and prove your market is there.

    Then start as small as you can and see if it would work. there is no rush, you are making money it's only your spare time you are using.

    Talk to companies as suggested see what you can put together, if they can see you are serious then they will pay attention and possibly help

    In the early days comitment is more important than anything else, I planned my first site for over a year before I went live.

    If you have a small project that works even though it's limited in what it can do. Maybe even free to the users, you have something to offer an investor along with your research and experience built up over the previous months / years

    The added features would then let you charge for them as they came online

    Go to the libary and get a couple of books on how people like branson and Bannertine made it, you will then understand their drive and energy, that made things happen for them. If you dont understand business then read about it there are thousands of books on the subject that will help you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2009
    Posted: Aug 14, 2009 By: Chris Ashdown Member since: Dec 7, 2003
  19. eventdomain

    eventdomain Banned

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    Your trying to be a Dragon, yet you're just a tiger cub. This is so so delusional, much emotion, the want, desperation to be somebody - all classic signs of denial, maybe even trying to be a bit too clever with your business idea - all these things can kill you quick, and is why a ton of business start-ups fail within 2 years.

    Don't make that mistake.

    Best thing for you, is start with something easier/cheaper and gain experience of running a small business. Start small, don't panic and build something up gradually, see what comes of it before sinking £xxxxx into it and getting bank loans - you don't need that stress I assure you!!

    Its so easy to spend money, its damn tough to make money - and there's your time too don't forget, so you dont want to waste it. Do somethng easier, less stressful, that allows you to create value for people. Create value and you can make money - eg: People want problems solved, life made easier and cheaper stuff.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2009
    Posted: Aug 14, 2009 By: eventdomain Member since: Apr 23, 2009
  20. Chunkford

    Chunkford UKBF Newcomer Free Member

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    An idea will only work if the owner truly believes in it, so pull yourself together!
    Read between the lines of what people say, take it on board, use it to your advantage!
    And anything is possible when you put your mind to it!
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2009
    Posted: Aug 14, 2009 By: Chunkford Member since: Nov 24, 2008
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