Sentiment -Brexit

Discussion in 'General Business Forum' started by Flashh, Oct 11, 2016.

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  1. sirearl

    sirearl UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Welcome to the wonderful world of Capitalism.

    "Never have so many owed so much to so few for so little"

    Winnie the pooh.;)
     
    Posted: Oct 18, 2016 By: sirearl Member since: Apr 23, 2007
  2. Gecko001

    Gecko001 UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

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    A French official has suggested that the Brexit negotiations are carried out in French. This prompts the interesting thought that English will cease to be an official language of the EU when Brexit is concluded since no member country will then have English as their official language. Even Ireland has Irish Gaelic as their official language in the EU.
     
    Posted: Oct 21, 2016 By: Gecko001 Member since: Apr 21, 2011
  3. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    That would make sense. The problem is that english is the second language of most EU countries now, and no other language has the same penetration.
     
    Posted: Oct 21, 2016 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
  4. The Byre

    The Byre UKBF Ace Free Member

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    With the UK out, one person in three in the remaining 27 countries speaks German.

    That's Northern Italy, Austria, large parts of Poland, Belgium, Holland (Dutch is in reality a German dialect anyway) and Luxembourg. With the UK gone, the giant German economy will dominate the EU even more.
     
    Posted: Oct 21, 2016 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
  5. Gecko001

    Gecko001 UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

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    What will happen to EU documentation for people in the UK who need it to export and import from the EU? Will it be automatically published by the EU in English the way it is published today? Will money be spent by the EU to translate it into a language that no member state will have as its official language?
     
    Posted: Oct 21, 2016 By: Gecko001 Member since: Apr 21, 2011
  6. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    That's all very ell, but some of those countries, while being able to speak/understand German, have a visceral hatred of the language.

    I will never forget the reaction of the mother of a Dutch friend of mine, who complimented me on my grasp of Dutch. I explained it was because I had learned German at school, making it easy for me to make the transition. I was subjected to a 20 minute diatribe about how there was no connection whatsoever between Dutch and German and that the Dutch language was closer to English than to German.

    Or when I was trying to make myself understood in Poland - I started in German, moved to French, then tried English. None worked until my brother asked in English what was wrong. Immediately everyone who had heard him could understand my German, which they would not have understood if they still thought I was German.
     
    Posted: Oct 21, 2016 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
  7. The Byre

    The Byre UKBF Ace Free Member

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    I doubt it, somehow! If Ireland does not ask for English to be added to the list of standard languages, that's it! No more English.

    There is also the knotty problem of technical specs. Selling hi-tech stuff into Europe will mean having to take on the tech specs of French and German institutions and customers. As it is, nearly all the EU norms are just the old DIN standards by another name.

    Then there is the disappearance for UK companies of pan-EU bidding for projects and supplies.
     
    Posted: Oct 21, 2016 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
  8. The Byre

    The Byre UKBF Ace Free Member

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    They are keen enough to learn German when they want to sell stuff or have a German company move a major production plant to their area!

    Those that are still in Poland and have not (yet) moved to Germany, shop at Aldi, drive VWs, work at Bosch and learn German at school!

    The Euro is just the Deutschmark by another name! It was even given the value of two Marks and the 500€ note was introduced to replace the old thousand Mark note.
     
    Posted: Oct 21, 2016 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
  9. atmosbob

    atmosbob UKBF Ace Free Member

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    Don't get many of those in my change ;-)

    Language and Europe reminds me of how they treat English. I was doing some work in Germany and learnt enough German to ask the switchboard ladies to put me through to who I wanted. They would invariably answer me in English. I asked one of my clients whether I should ask in English. He said that assuming the switchboard operator did not speak English was an insult. It was as if I said they had not finished high school.

    On another occasion I was in Milan with a mix of different nationalities who all worked for a US ad agency. I knew that one of the two Germans had just returned from holiday. During a coffee break I heard them talking about his holiday in English. They explained that although they were both German the language of the office was English.
     
    Posted: Oct 21, 2016 By: atmosbob Member since: Oct 26, 2009
  10. The Byre

    The Byre UKBF Ace Free Member

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    In a US company - but then the office language of a US company I did some work for in Germany was German - and that included the American plant manager.

    The average Joe on the street does not speak English, any more than the average Brit, although they all learn French at school, can speak any French.
     
    Posted: Oct 21, 2016 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
  11. Francois Badenhorst

    Francois Badenhorst Business Editor, UKBF & AWEB Staff Member

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    I agree with you to an extent. I'd say what's particularly bitter about this particular downturn in economic fortune is it was self-inflicted.

    It comes down to a point I've raised repeatedly. Personally, I'm anti-EU on political principle. In the long term, my aspiration would be to see it dismantled. But I voted remain because I was cognisant of the fact that uncoupling from the EU would be an intricate process. I also suspected that the UK's exit would be mismanaged by this government. So far, I've seen nothing to dispel that belief.
     
    Posted: Oct 25, 2016 By: Francois Badenhorst Member since: Aug 25, 2015
  12. Scott-Copywriter

    Scott-Copywriter UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    This is an important point. I mentioned it before the referendum on here and I had hoped that more people would factor this into their voting decision.

    I get that people dislike things out of principle, but it's important to be realistic and practical.

    This "leave at any cost" mindset some people have is frankly dangerous. There is always, always too much of a price to pay. As I said before, this isn't a Braveheart moment where people charge to their death to fulfil their principles.

    If people disagree with the EU, fine. If they don't like certain aspects about it, fine. I voted remain and there are lots of elements of the EU I'm not a fan of. However, it's just smart if you factor in all the pros and cons, and then make a decision which is likely to create the most positive outcome - even if you do have to swallow your pride from time to time.

    In my view, making a decision on "principle" is just another way of someone saying that there's no logical reason for doing it, but they just want to satisfy their emotions.

    We see it all the time on UKBF. People being taken to court for £20 "out of principle", even though it costs far more than £20 in time and resources. There are also people where their businesses are being forced into liquidation over insignificant sums, with payment plans and other solutions being rejected "out of principle".

    Even though I voted remain, I've always been aware that the EU is far from perfect. However, considering the damage that I believe Brexit will do to the UK, it just seemed like common sense to stick with it and avoid making our short time on planet earth considerably more difficult.

    For the record, I'm aware that many people voted to leave because they genuinely believed that the UK would come out better for it. That's fine. However, I guarantee there were an awful lot of people who ignored the tangible outcomes just because it fulfilled some principle of "control" or "sovereignty".
     
    Posted: Oct 25, 2016 By: Scott-Copywriter Member since: May 10, 2006
  13. Gecko001

    Gecko001 UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

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    I voted to remain not as a pragmatist but because I have been to the continent quite often on holiday and business and I have also worked there. I like the idea of going to the rest of Europe and being part of it. In principle, I am probably against the EU in so far as it has many undemocratic aspects to it. As a business person who deals with Europe quite often and have clients there, I do not like being affected by having to work to non-EU regulations that Brexit will bring as well as still having to work to the EU rules for my EU clients. As far as how it will affect my living standards, not even the best economists can agree on that one so I can only guess what will happen to them.

    In summary my vote was based on the following:
    Emotionally I wanted to remain in the EU
    Because of concerns about the democracy of the EU, in principle I wanted to leave
    For some rational reasons particular to my business I wanted to remain.
     
    Posted: Oct 25, 2016 By: Gecko001 Member since: Apr 21, 2011
  14. Francois Badenhorst

    Francois Badenhorst Business Editor, UKBF & AWEB Staff Member

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    Very good post, Gecko. For me, it was a decision riddled with all kinds of internal contradictions.

    In the long term, I see the dismantling of the EU as a democratic project. It's an organisation run by corporate technocrats. Simultaneously I have a tremendous affinity for the continent. It's the home of my forefathers and has given us so, so much. I will always consider myself a part of Europe the place (as opposed to Europe the political entity).

    I had to balance my desire to leave the EU with deciding who I would like to leave with. Nigel Farage is decisively not company I would like to keep.
     
    Posted: Oct 25, 2016 By: Francois Badenhorst Member since: Aug 25, 2015
  15. MikeJ

    MikeJ UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    That's really not my experience, either at work or in public. Go in to any hotel in Germany and the receptionist will speak fluent English. Go into most hotels in the UK and you'll get their mother tongue, and reasonable English from them.

    Go through the airport, and the security guards at the scanners will have fluent English. I deal with a German company, German owned, and everybody there speaks reasonable English.
     
    Posted: Oct 25, 2016 By: MikeJ Member since: Jan 15, 2008
  16. Gecko001

    Gecko001 UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

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    All those people deal with English-speaking people regularly and, who knows, having English-speaking skills might be a requirement of their employment. When I worked in Germany, the people on the factory shop floor and on the checkout in shops outside the tourist areas did not speak any English. The ordinary person you met on the train or bus in non-tourist areas, also rarely spoke any English either.
     
    Posted: Oct 25, 2016 By: Gecko001 Member since: Apr 21, 2011
  17. Scott-Copywriter

    Scott-Copywriter UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    Rational hits the nail on the head.

    I think far too few people really thought rationally about the vote - especially those in lower income areas which have received considerable EU investment.

    Too few people took a step back from the emotional hype and thought to themselves "right - leaving the EU is going to impact the life of myself and my family in terms of this, this and this".

    Sunderland will always stand out to me as one example which proves that many aspects of this referendum were completely irrational. Significant EU investment, thousands of jobs from overseas companies, minimal immigration and low incomes.

    The chance of that area actually being better off as a result of Brexit is non-existent. They will feel the negative impact of it quicker than others, yet leave won by a large majority.

    Ebbw Vale can be added to this as well: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...s-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale

    After the North East and poorer Welsh regions have been overlooked by the rest of the country over many decades, did they nobly sacrifice their own financial future to do the rest of the country a favour? I don't think so.
     
    Posted: Oct 25, 2016 By: Scott-Copywriter Member since: May 10, 2006
  18. KM-Tiger

    KM-Tiger UKBF Legend Full Member - Verified Business

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    That cuts both ways. There was irrationality on both sides.

    I can't find the clip on Twitter now, but it was a young woman who voted to remain "because the EU gave us the NHS".
     
    Posted: Oct 25, 2016 By: KM-Tiger Member since: Aug 10, 2003
  19. atmosbob

    atmosbob UKBF Ace Free Member

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    And you can count Cornwall which voted to be poorer.
     
    Posted: Oct 25, 2016 By: atmosbob Member since: Oct 26, 2009
  20. sirearl

    sirearl UKBF Legend Free Member

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    Unfortunately being obsessed by economy takes a certain kind of wisdom not often commensurate with quality of life for the many.
     
    Posted: Oct 26, 2016 By: sirearl Member since: Apr 23, 2007
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